Kevin Hollinrake
MP for Thirsk and Malton · Conservative · United Kingdom
“That issue is one of the many things that the people who signed the petition are concerned about, Dr Huq. One of the big things that the Government promised, which I agree with them about, is the need to encourage faster growth in our economy. Of course that is right, but look at where that growth is.”
“The UK economy went through many challenges, of course, some of them caused by Brexit; the reality is that a change like that was bound to have a short-term effect—but only a short-term effect. The country grew faster than Germany and France during that period of time.”
“As I said before, governing is not easy; we had many challenges ourselves, and we did not get everything right, but what we did during that difficult period of time—those 14 years—was get 1.2 million more people employed in our economy. Unemployment was halved during our time in office.”
“Of course, many Government Members supported his leadership challenge. We are here now, looking forward to a general election coming down the track. We are ready for a general election when the Government are, because, unlike them, we have a strong leader—against their weak leader.”
“I was, absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) for his excellent opening speech. He made so many good points, not least about the level of support for this petition.”
“Members on the Government side of the House also feel betrayed and angry with their own leadership, for marching them up to the top of the hill and marching them back down again on many of these issues, but they do not feel as betrayed as the businesspeople in this country in particular.”
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“Nevertheless, to the shadow Minister’s point on slow growth, it is good to note that the UK has grown at about the same pace as the United States since 2010, and faster than Germany since 2016. It is important to have the facts. In the same period, we have come to understand the scale of the climate change challenge and the transformation that will be required in every element of our economy. I will first touch on some of the contributions from both sides of the House. It is fair to say that there were some valuable contributions on both sides, although I probably have more in common with the comments from the Conservative side of the House. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) talked about making sure that we have a fair and level playing field in competition with overseas markets. Our “Steel Lady”, my hon.”
“I must pass on the apologies of the Secretary of State for not being able to attend the debate, due to a Cobra meeting. I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. Listening to the contributions, I cannot help but feel that reports of the death of British industry have been greatly exaggerated—that is probably not what the speakers meant, but that is definitely how it sounded. From the aftermath of the global financial crisis to the coronavirus pandemic and, more recently, damaging disruption to worldwide supply chains, there is no doubt that global economic turmoil in the past 12 years has presented significant challenges for manufacturing in the UK.”
“Manufacturing, which is responsible for almost half of UK exports, has a vital role to play in driving innovation, job creation and productivity growth beyond the bounds of the M25. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) will be pleased to note that 95% of manufacturing jobs are outside London.”
“I think everyone in this House would agree on the need to buy British, but does he accept that, that as the trade and co-operation agreement and others open up EU markets to UK companies, we cannot on that basis expect to close our markets to EU countries, or to countries from around the world? We believe in international trade— [ Interruption. ] Well, I also believe in buying British. I share his enthusiasm for the Government’s £206 million investment in a UK Shipping Office for Reducing Emissions—the biggest Government investment ever in that sector. Manufacturing has been at the heart of our economy for centuries—the shipbuilding, automotive and steel industries perhaps more than any others. In 2021, manufacturing contributed more than £205 billion gross value added to the UK economy, which is the fourth highest figure in Europe.”
“The hon. Gentleman made some good points about the opportunities on Teesside. Carbon capture and storage and Net Zero Teesside represent a huge opportunity and something that is on the Government agenda. We are also looking into the life sciences sector in Teesside and the first large-scale lithium refinery in the country, with 1,000 jobs in construction—all these things are happening on Teesside. I recognise his point on the steel sector, but all this carbon capture and storage may well form part of the future for Teesside. The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) made some interesting points about buying British.”
“Resolved, That this House condemns the Government for its lack of policy on British industry including the steel, automotive and shipbuilding sectors; regrets that after 12 years of Conservative Government, the UK has the lowest levels of business investment in the G7; recognises the large number of high-quality jobs created by British industry, as well as its importance to achieving the UK’s net zero targets; calls on the Government to recognise the unique challenges and opportunities in each of these sectors; and therefore further calls on the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to urgently bring forward plans to ensure these sectors are supported and to avert job losses that will have a devastating impact on communities and the wider economy.”
“On critical and advanced materials, we are investing in the materials of the future. That is why we published in July our first ever critical minerals strategy, which sets out our plan to secure our supply chains. We are boosting our domestic capabilities in the production and processing of critical minerals, building a circular economy where they can be recovered, reused and recycled. The story really could go on, but I think I have made my point. This country has a rich industrial history that goes back centuries. Our world now looks very different from the 18th century, but one thing remains the same: that particularly British spirit of innovation and enterprise. This Government can and will play their part so that no community or corner of this country is left behind. Question put and agreed to.”
“We know that there is some way to go, but this Government are committed to putting the pedal to the metal and doing all we can to accelerate our efforts. Many Members quite rightly talked about steel. The Government recognise the challenging international economic environment in which the steel industry has to operate, including in relation to overcapacity. Above all else, we understand the vital role that steel occupies as a cornerstone of the UK economy, underpinning domestic industries and local communities. Over the past nine years, the Government have committed £800 million towards electricity costs through the energy intensive industries compensation scheme, on top of the energy bill relief scheme. Of course, we continue to consider what can be done to ensure that the steel industry is competitive, in fair terms, with other nations.”
“We are improving access to finance by providing credit for UK ship buyers through a home shipbuilding credit guarantee scheme, and we are working closely, through the shipbuilding enterprise for growth, to raise the productivity and competitiveness of UK shipyards. This is not just a story of success at sea; we are leading the way on land, too. We are the sixth largest automotive producer in Europe, and the sector is one of the engines driving forward our plans for green growth in every corner of the country. Last year, Nissan announced £1 billion in investment to create a world-first electric vehicle hub in Sunderland, safeguarding 6,200 existing jobs and creating more than 1,000 new ones.”
“Across the country, we are already seeing stories of success. Let me begin with shipbuilding. The UK has always been and always will be a seafaring nation. Today, the shipbuilding industry supports 46,000 jobs in places such as Portsmouth and Rosyth, and adds £2.4 billion to the British economy. I am glad that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun welcomes today’s £4.2 billion order for five Type 26 frigates, which will be built in Glasgow. Earlier this year, we refreshed our national shipbuilding strategy, unlocking more than £4 billion in investment for maritime firms from the Solent to the firth of Forth.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Certainly, the Cabinet Office is looking at procurement strategy now, and nudges could be made. My point is that we cannot expect other markets to open their doors to our businesses if we close our doors to theirs. From Sunderland to south Wales, industries are at the heart not just of our economy, but of our communities. Those industries are integral to our economic policy, and the Government are ensuring not just that they are alive and kicking, but that they prosper in the 21st century. Together, Government and business are laying the foundations for an economy that is fit for the future. By delivering the new infrastructure, industries, skills and jobs that we will need to meet the demands of the day, we can deliver a future for all that is more sustainable, secure and prosperous.”
“They are, first, based on simple monetary thresholds. Subsidies above £10 million, or that accumulate above this threshold, are subsidies of particular interest. Subsidies between £5 million and £10 million are generally subsidies of interest. However, if they are awarded in a sensitive sector, they are subsidies of particular interest.”
“This adds an additional layer of scrutiny for the small proportion of subsidies and schemes that have greater potential to lead to undue distortion and negative effects on competition or investment in the UK or on international trade or investment. The Government ran a public consultation between March and May 2022 that sought views on the categories of subsidies and schemes and the Government’s intended approach to setting out the criteria and definitions. Respondents expressed broad support for the Government’s approach. In our response to the consultation, published in August this year, we set out our final proposals, which built on the constructive feedback received from the consultation. In the regulations, subsidies and schemes of interest or particular interest are defined based on clear criteria.”
“I will briefly summarise the implications of a subsidy or scheme meeting the definition of a subsidy or scheme of interest or particular interest. Part 4 of the 2022 Act establishes the mechanism for the referral of subsidies and schemes to the subsidy advice unit—a new unit established within the Competition and Markets Authority. Voluntary referral will apply to subsidies or schemes of interest. Subsidies or schemes of particular interest will be subject to mandatory referral. When a subsidy or scheme is referred, the public authority’s assessment of compliance with the subsidy control requirements will be evaluated by the SAU and a report will be published with its findings.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Subsidy Control (Subsidies and Schemes of Interest or Particular Interest) Regulations 2022. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. These regulations were laid before the House on 20 October 2022. The Subsidy Control Act 2022 provides for a new UK-wide subsidy control regime that will enable public authorities to give subsidies that are tailored to their local needs and that drive economic growth. It does this while minimising distortion to UK competition and investment and protecting our international obligations. Section 11 of the 2022 Act enables the Secretary of State to make secondary legislation to define subsidies and schemes of interest or particular interest.”
“The assessment of compliance with the subsidy control requirements will be carried out for the whole scheme, rather than for each subsidy given under that scheme. As such, if a subsidy of particular interest can be awarded under a scheme, that scheme is a scheme of particular interest and is subject to the referral procedures. The same applies to subsidies and schemes of interest. The referral can occur once, at scheme level. Subsidies given under schemes will never be referred to the SAU.”
“That reflects the fact that both rescue and restructuring subsidies have greater potential to cause undue distortion, but rescue subsidies are often time-critical, since the enterprise may need the subsidy urgently if it is not to go out of business. The final specific category of subsidies is those that are explicitly conditional on relocation. Such subsidies are prohibited entirely, unless they have a beneficial effect on economic or social disadvantage in the UK as a whole. Subsidies in that category are subsidies of interest if they are £1 million or below, and subsidies of particular interest if above that value. The regulations also apply to subsidy schemes. A subsidy scheme will set out the parameters under which subsidies may be given.”
“The monetary thresholds are cumulative. As such, a subsidy of £5 million may be above the threshold for a subsidy of particular interest if the recipient had already received a related £6 million subsidy within the last three financial years. This avoids public authorities salami-slicing subsidies to avoid scrutiny. In addition, the regulations set out a minimum value for referral of £1 million. That means that where related subsidies cumulate above the £10 million threshold for subsidies of particular interest, public authorities will have to refer only the most recent subsidy if it exceeds £1 million. The second element of the criteria is specific categories of subsidy. Subsidies designed to rescue an ailing or insolvent enterprise are subsidies of interest, and restructuring subsidies are subsidies of particular interest.”
“That is a very good question. I was just getting on to that. Sensitive sectors are areas of economic activity in which there is a record of international trade policy disputes, evidence of global overcapacity within the sector or evidence that one or both of these features will apply to the sector in future. If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the last part of the regulations, he will see that it lists the sectors that would be defined as sensitive, and those include automotive, steel and other sectors. Subsidies in those sectors have greater potential for substantial distortion, even at lower values. That is why those sectors are subject to a lower monetary threshold, of £5 million, to be defined as a subsidy of particular interest. The Government have set out a list of these sectors in the regulations.”
“Finally, a distinct approach will apply to tax schemes. All tax schemes will be schemes of interest and may be referred to the subsidy advice unit. The cumulation rules will apply differently to subsidies given under tax schemes. Only subsidies given as part of the same tax measure within the last three financial years will count towards the cumulative threshold for subsidies of particular interest.”
“That is a good question, and I thank my hon. Friend for it. The trade and co-operation agreement includes some oversight; clearly, we made some commitments in that agreement regarding subsidies, which is what the statutory instrument and the previous legislation have both sought to address. However, we believe that the approach we are taking to subsidies is far more effective and quicker to deliver than the European Union one. Under that approach, we would have to take a scheme to the European Union, have it approved and then have it come back, which might take several months. Our approach sets out a broad set of principles: a local authority or central Government can set out a scheme and, as long as it adheres to these principles, the subsidy can be delivered far more quickly. In our view, that is a far more effective process.”
“It is experiential; it is based on the record of international trade policy disputes and evidence of global overcapacity. Automotive may sit within that.”
“It is a fair point. In the interest of time, I will consult on this and write to the right hon. Gentleman. In conclusion, the regulations set out the definitions and criteria for the categories of subsidies and schemes that will have greater potential to lead to undue distortion and negative effects on competition or investment in the UK or on international trade or investment. These subsidies and schemes will be subject to an additional layer of scrutiny in the form of referral to the subsidy advice unit. That is crucial to the effective functioning of the UK’s new subsidy control regime, which will give public authorities the flexibility and freedom to deliver bespoke subsidies that meet the needs of the UK economy. I commend the regulations to the Committee.”
“I am confident that they strike the right balance when it comes to providing protection from undue distortion or negative effects on competition or investment within the UK or international trade or investment, while being administratively simple for public authorities to apply. I have committed to write to the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington with more detail on the categories of subsidy; the shadow Minister also addressed that in her remarks. She will be aware, having read the consultation, that we consulted in full on the question of sensitive sectors and published accompanying analytical information. The Government’s response to the consultation sets out a rationale for the selection of these particular sectors, but I am very happy to write to her too.”
“I thank the shadow Minister for her comments, and all Members for their thoughtful contributions. I begin by reminding the House what the regulations aim to do. They set out clear definitions and criteria for two categories of subsidies and schemes that have been identified as having greater potential to lead to distorting effects. These are subsidies and schemes of interest or particular interest. Public authorities giving or making subsidies or schemes of interest will have the option of referring these to the subsidy advice unit established within the Competition and Markets Authority, while those giving or making subsidies or schemes of particular interest must refer them to the unit. The definitions and criteria set out in the regulations are based on clear monetary thresholds as well as specific categories of subsidy.”
“That provides for scrutiny over the decisions made by either the SAU or the public authority.”
“I take that point and commit to writing to the right hon. Gentleman about that. On the shadow Minister’s point about the non-binding nature of judgments from the SAU, they are obviously subject to a potential legal challenge. If a public authority declined to accept the recommendations of the SAU, which seems quite unlikely, it would open itself up to legal challenge, either by a competitor or organisation in receipt of subsidies, another country or the EU, for example. It seems an unlikely state of affairs, but we believe the public authority should be able to use its judgment, obviously while heeding the advice of the SAU. In terms of scrutiny, any referral to the SAU is published on its database, showing what referrals have been made, and any recommendations by the SAU are published.”
“There is certainly transparency in terms of any referral, which would be on the public record. The response from the SAU would also be public. I do not understand the hon. Lady’s further point. It is a decision for public authorities, at that point. If they choose to ignore the advice, on their head be it.”
“They define the small proportion of subsidies and schemes that will have greater potential to lead to undue distortion and negative effects, and should be subjected to additional scrutiny by the SAU. As such, I commend the draft regulations to the Committee. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft Subsidy Control (Subsidies and Schemes of Interest or Particular Interest) Regulations 2022.”
“Their positions were all points of clarification. No objections were raised to the measures. I do not know whether the resources that the hon. Lady referred to have been allocated, but will happily write to her on that. The way we are dealing with tax subsidies mirrors how the EU dealt with them. We felt that that was appropriate, rather than doing something different. There are specific reasons for that, particularly with regard to how the Treasury operates. I thank hon. Members on both sides of the Committee for their valuable contributions to this excellent and informative debate. The draft regulations are crucial to the effective functioning of a new UK subsidy control regime.”
“That is a fair point. I will take it away and write to the hon. Lady. I mentioned sensitive sectors in my previous points. On what was and was not in the Bill—the hon. Lady raised that earlier—the reason we did it this way around is to allow for feedback, and not just from parliamentarians debating the sensitive sectors, for example. We think that it is important to get feedback from the sectors themselves—the stakeholders. We published our position in January, had a consultation from March to May, then introduced draft regulations that we believe deal with the issues raised. It is true that the devolved Administrations said that they would not contribute directly to the consultation, but they have engaged with us to a great degree, including through correspondence and in a number of meetings.”
“The Government recognise the important contribution made by unpaid carers and the considerable challenges they face in balancing work with their caring responsibilities. I am pleased to be here today to reiterate that the Government fully support the Bill.”
“There are armies of people out there doing a wonderful job for their relatives and their dependants, with lots of other benefits for society as a result. There were some excellent contributions from Members on both sides of the Committee. Lots of people in our constituencies are in need of such support, so it is hugely important that this piece of legislation has been introduced. Improving carer’s leave through the Bill will mean that unpaid carers who are balancing caring alongside paid employment will have greater flexibility to take time out of work if required. On Second Reading, Members on both sides of the House, some of whom are serving on this Committee, related their personal experiences of caring. I thank them all for sharing their personal stories in heartfelt contributions.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I thank my several predecessors who have done a lot of work on this, including my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough in her time looking after the legislation. Most of all, I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for her work on the Bill and for her explanation to the Committee of the various clauses and schedules. It was interesting to listen to her comments—reflected by those of my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport—about the fact that most people providing care, such as her husband, do not even recognise themselves as carers. Reflecting on that, we have all—or people of my age might have—been in situations where we have provided care and support on an informal basis at times.”
“The Government continue to support measures to provide unpaid carers in work with much-needed flexibility to manage their caring responsibilities alongside remaining in work. Supporting the Bill is in line with our ongoing commitment to support workers and build a high-skilled, high-productivity, high-wage economy. I look forward to continuing to work with the hon. Member for North East Fife to support the passage of the Bill. I conclude by thanking the hon. Member for North Antrim for his excellent chairing of today’s Committee.”
“We have the Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Bill, the Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill, and the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill, so there is a raft of legislation we are supporting that will improve terms and conditions for employees. My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye spoke touchingly of her personal experience of looking after her father in very difficult circumstances. I think many of us can share her emotions. The hon. Member for Sheffield Central talked about the incredible work that younger carers do and the impacts of that both socially and in education. He made a very fair point because that is another area that we need to look at in greater detail.”
“Member for Rotherham also pointed out that there are savings for all of us in the legislation. It is good for society, good for the taxpayer, good for businesses, and it is obviously good for people in need of care. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Bradford East, pointed out that the legislation has taken time to come forward, which is a fair point. We did commit to it in our 2019 manifesto—he was right to say that—but we needed to consult on these matters because other people are affected, including employers. The consultation finished in 2021. It talked about wider employment measures, and we are bringing forward various pieces of legislation. Only last week I sat on the Protection from Redundancy (Pregnancy and Family Leave) Bill Committee with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central.”
“I think many employees would provide paid leave as a matter of course. One benefit of the leave being unpaid is that it gives more flexibility about how that leave can be taken, including half-days and single days. I would point out—I think the hon. Member for Rotherham reflected on this—the cost to business. As set out in the explanatory notes, the cost to businesses is £4.7 million in set-up costs and then £40 million per annum to provide the leave. As she said, businesses are facing a pretty hard time right now and we have to be cognisant of the pressures they are under. If businesses do not pay for this, the cost would fall on taxpayers, who are also having a pretty hard time right now, but I think the Bill strikes the right balance between flexibility and affordability. The hon.”
“Our policy is to align the notice provision with that for annual leave—twice the duration of leave requested, plus one day, subject to a minimum of three days’ notice. The regulations will also allow employers to postpone but not deny a leave request. I reiterate the Government’s support or the Bill, and again thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for her work in getting it to this stage. I agree that clauses 1 to 3 and parts 1 and 2 of the schedule should stand part of the Bill. To respond to some of the comments made, the hon. Member for Stockton North talked about making the leave paid. I understand his view, but point out that this is a minimum entitlement, which sends a signal to employers who are currently not demonstrating that degree of compassion to people in need.”
“Eligible employees will be entitled to one week of unpaid leave per year. This will be available to take flexibly, in single or half-days, to best meet the needs of unpaid carers. Reference is made in the Bill to regulations that in particular provide that an employer cannot require an employee to supply evidence in relation to a request for leave. I agree that employees should not be required to provide evidence to demonstrate their eligibility to take carer’s leave, and this will be reflected in the regulations. The Bill provides a power to make regulations relating to notices and other procedures. Our position, set out in the Government response to the consultation, is that employees making a request to take carer’s leave should give notice to their employer.”
“Member for North East Fife pointed out that there are big benefits for employers in helping employees to enjoy their workplace and strengthening the connection between employer and employee. Many employers already provide carers’ rights without needing legislation requiring them to do so. As the hon. Lady set out, the Bill is straightforward. The detail of the entitlement is contained in the schedule. The clauses and schedule give the Secretary of State new powers to make regulations entitling an employee to be absent from work in order to provide or arrange care for a dependant with a long-term care need. I will briefly explain the Government’s policy and how the regulations will be used, which was set out in the Government’s response to the consultation on carer’s leave published in September 2021.”
“That was a wonderful piece of self-promotion, but I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments and will address the points he made. Numerous groups of people will benefit from the entitlement conferred by this Bill, including older workers, women and those with disabilities or long-term health conditions. Whether they are providing care or in need of care, the Bill represents an important step forward in supporting their needs and giving them a better chance of remaining in work. There is also a strong business case to be made for employers supporting unpaid carers in their workforce, and some employers already provide excellent examples of this. The hon.”
“I beg to move amendment 9, in clause 65, page 55, line 3, at end insert “and section 167M(2) does not impose any obligation on a company in relation to the person”. This amendment ensures that where a company director is exempt on national security grounds etc from being a person whose ID is verified, the company can also be relieved from the obligation to ensure that the director is ID verified.”
“It is inappropriate to include a specific oversight role for the ISC in relation to the deployment of this exemption. The amendment is therefore not necessary, and I ask hon. Members not to press it.”
“Therefore, they will not be criminally liable for failing to comply with that duty in relation to the exempted person. Relieving companies of the duty meets the original policy intention and is a logical consequence of the exemption granted to individuals on these grounds. I hope that my explanation has provided further clarity on why that is needed. On amendment 101, any proposed use of the national security exemption in clause 65 will be carefully considered by the Secretary of State. A duty to report to Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee on the use of that exemption is unnecessary. The ISC’s oversight functions are clearly set out in the Justice and Security Act 2013 and the accompanying memorandum of understanding.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Ms Bardell. Amendment 9 is a technical amendment. Clause 65 enables the Secretary of State to exempt a person from identity verification requirements by written notice, if necessary in the interests of national security or to prevent or detect serious crime. The consequence of someone being subject to such a written notice is that they will not be obliged to observe certain rules. For example, an unverified individual benefiting from an exemption will not need to refrain from acting as a director and will not be liable for an offence for acting as such. The amendment clarifies that companies whose directors are exempt from the prohibition to act when unverified are relieved of their duty to ensure that such a director has their identity verified.”
“Perhaps I could give the hon. Lady some examples of the kinds of individuals the exemption might apply to. We expect the exemption to be used on very rare occasions, for individuals including, but not limited to, those working for the UK intelligence community or law enforcement agencies. She should bear in mind that the Secretary of State is introducing the provisions. I hope that she will be reassured that the powers will be used sparingly but wisely.”
“May I speak to that case very quickly? The Usmanov case was entirely different. A Secretary of State did not introduce legislation providing for a Russian oligarch to move, in that case, billions of pounds-worth of assets to his sister, I think. What we are talking about here is the Secretary of State using a power to remove somebody whose identity is sensitive from a public register—not allowing an oligarch to subvert the regulations.”
“I am happy to reflect on that and have further discussion. As the hon. Lady and other Members know, I am keen for Parliament to have scrutiny of any measures that we introduce. We will take it away to consider.”
“I think that we are trying to achieve the same thing, just in different ways. We discussed this issue at length in previous sittings. Companies House is already actively working on unique identifiers. It is not credible to think that, having legislated for them, we will not implement them. A basic principle of the Bill is to be able properly to link individuals on the Companies House register, so that company directors have a better experience and so that it is easier for the public to identify the connection between directors, including persons of significant control, and companies.”