Luke Pollard
MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“As the Member of Parliament for Devonport, where we not only base-port but refit Type 23s, I know that many of those ships that have given decades of service are no longer able to provide the capabilities we need.”
“It is unlike the SNP to be so positive about defence, isn’t it? The Type 83 and Type 32 were PowerPoints—there was no budget attached to them. That is why in the defence investment plan we set out a plan for a common combat vessel and a hybrid Navy to fulfil the opportunities that the retirement of the Type 45 presents for us.”
“If the right hon. Gentleman is talking about a salary of up to £1 billion, he is cosplaying as the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), isn’t he? Seriously, we are the third-largest cash spender in NATO. At the spending review next year, we will be setting out an increase in defence spending.”
“My hon. Friend really is the Member of Parliament for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, as she is determined to champion it so frequently. She will have seen in the defence investment plan our commitment to the new generation of fleet solid support ships, and she will have seen the work that this Government have undertaken since 2024 to address…”
“I say seriously to the House that my hon. Friend has been an incredible advocate for Rosyth. I have met him on a large number of occasions, and he has been absolutely determined to talk not just about the potential of Rosyth, but about the professionalism of the men and women who work there and the opportunity for young people to have a c…”
“We inherited a situation where the north-east was the region with the lowest Ministry of Defence spend in the country and we have made it a mission to increase defence spending in the north-east. We have an incredible talent pool in the north-east, with brilliant defence companies both large and small doing brilliant work.”
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“I will come back to the hon. Gentleman in a moment. Although the Chagossians could not be part of the negotiations as they were conducted on a state-to-state basis, both the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), and Foreign and Commonwealth Development officials have met and had regular meetings over the past year, and stayed engaged with their diverse views. There are diverse views within the Chagossian community that are strongly held, and we have listened and respected those.”
“I understand the hon. Gentleman’s argument. It is the reason why, right up front, before I went into the military utility of the base at Diego Garcia, I wanted to speak about the Chagossians. It is important. I will come on to the engagement that the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, has had in this respect, but I understand the strength of feeling that the hon. Gentleman describes. I will come to the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin), and then I will make progress.”
“The hon. Gentleman’s intervention is not about Chagossians, but I realise I could not take his intervention earlier. He asks about the meaning of the social time preference rate in relation to the deal. Discounting in appraisal of social value is based on the concept of time preference, and that the value of goods or services today is greater than in the future. This is the discount rate that has been used in the Green Book since 2003, including in every year that his party was in Government. It was the basis on which this was there.”
“To return to the issue of Chagossians, on which I am trying to make progress, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth and FCDO officials have met with the Chagossian communities. Under the treaty, Mauritius will now be free to carry out a programme of resettlement of the outer islands, and we have agreed a new trust fund for Mauritius to use in support of Chagossians and the resumption of visits to the Chagos archipelago. Over the coming months and years, we will increase the UK Government’s support to and engagement with UK Chagossians, including through UK-funded projects designed through a new contact group, informed by the Chagossians’ own wishes, which met for the very first time last week and was attended by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth.”
“That is precisely why my FCDO colleagues are working very closely with Mauritius to ensure that the money that is included in the treaty, and the obligations that both the UK and Mauritius sign up to in the treaty, are fully delivered so that the Chagossians receive what this treaty says they should receive. That is a really important part of the treaty.”
“I understand the argument that the right hon. Gentleman is trying to make, but I hope that he appreciates my argument that the calculation is based on the OBR’s inflation and deflation figures and on the social time preference rate. It is a figure that has been calculated and supported by the OBR, and it stands up to scrutiny. If Conservative Members are saying that they no longer wish to use the Green Book for calculating long-term investments like this, which is their inferred argument, then it is worth looking at what they are suggesting that we no longer use the Green Book to calculate—they are making an awfully large spending commitment when they suggest that.”
“I want to conclude, but I realise that I have not been able to allow all the hon. Members to intervene who wanted to do so, so I give way to the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson).”
“I am going to finish my remarks on Chagossians, if I may. I hope that all Members of the House will recognise that the treaty is not just about the importance of the military base on Diego Garcia. Diego Garcia and the wider Chagos archipelago have a unique environment. I hope that protecting the world’s oceans is a point of cross-party unity in this debate, advanced across our overseas territories by the blue belt programme. The UK supports Mauritius’s ambitions to establish a marine protected area to safeguard the globally significant ecosystems in the Chagos archipelago, and the UK will provide technical support and assistance to enable that to happen. The UK and Mauritius will work with international conservation organisations to ensure implementation of science-backed strategies for conservation.”
“The Bill also ensures that there are no changes to the rights of Chagossians to acquire British citizenship, and no changes to the status of Chagossians who currently hold British citizenship or British overseas territory citizenship. Protecting national security is one of the utmost priorities of this Government, and we are delivering on that with this deal and the Bill. The Bill is crucial to securing the critically important military base on Diego Garcia for the next century and beyond, and that is why I commend it to the House.”
“We can cite statistics, but the key thing the previous Government said that their deal would secure was the future operation of the base. This deal secures the future operation of the base. It is a surprise that Conservative Members are not going to accept it. I will now conclude, because I want everyone to have a chance to speak in this debate. Let me do so by explaining what the Bill will do in practice. The Bill, along with the secondary legislation that will follow, will allow the treaty to be ratified and to enter into force. The Bill preserves the current laws of the British Indian Ocean Territory, which will ensure the base’s continued effective operation without any disruption during the transition.”
“We are securing one of the most valuable military bases on the planet. We are securing our close intelligence relationship with the United States. We are securing a vital base for operations in the region. We are securing a vital base for allies. That is the key British objective. It was the objective stated by the previous Government, which I believe the hon. Lady was serving in at the time, when they started negotiations. If she would like to say that she vividly opposes it and wants to publish the letters she was writing to the then Government for starting negotiations, she is welcome to do so, but I do not believe that any Conservative Members really did that. Let me say one final thing on cost. The average payment cost is 20% less than the cost of the festival of Brexit under the previous Government.”
“To reassure my hon. Friend, as I did the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) earlier, we are not required to give pre-notification of any military activities to Mauritius. That is important, because some people are erroneously suggesting that we are. That is not correct; we do not have to give pre-notification.”
“The Prime Minister has made tackling small boats and closing every asylum hotel a priority. Last week, I met ministerial colleagues from across Government to discuss how Defence will contribute to that work. We have deployed a military planning team to assist the Border Security Command and the Home Office, looking at military and non-military sites for temporary but adequate housing so that we can accelerate closing asylum hotels.”
“There is a lot of work to do, but we are making progress.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I share his passion for keeping our country safe. I refer him to the work of Operation Isotrope, a military operation undertaken by the last Conservative Government that put the Navy in charge of securing the English channel. That operation concluded that naval assets were not suitable for that task; it is already a dangerous crossing, and it concluded that military assets only made it more dangerous. That is why the armed forces are now assisting the Home Office and the Border Security Command, looking at how we can provide the accommodation that will enable us to close the asylum hotels, as well as how we can speed up the processing of asylum applications—something the Government that the hon. Gentleman backed shamefully stopped when they were in power.”
“I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for his question. The Ministry of Defence is part of the cross-Government response to small boats. We are stepping up our support to assist our colleagues in the Home Office. The Home Office remains the lead Department, but as every Department can contribute something to this effort, it is right that the Ministry of Defence does so. We continue to protect the nation and deliver the changes as laid out in the strategic defence review. Our No. 1 priority remains to keep this country safe.”
“As I will shortly outline to the House, as part of the launch of the defence industrial strategy, this Government will set out an ambitious skills package that will grow, retain and develop the well-paid, high-skilled workforce that the UK requires to boost jobs and make defence an engine for growth in every nation and region of the country.”
“My hon. Friend is a real champion of his constituents who work at RAF Wyton, and all those who could work there through the expanded opportunities, which I have spoken to the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty) about. I am glad that there is cross-party support for the investment that this Government could make. There is a real opportunity to use defence as an engine for growth, creating more opportunities for our young people in particular. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend the Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Sam Carling) and the hon. Member for Huntingdon to discuss how we can further develop the opportunity at hand, in a spirit of cross-party consensus.”
“This Government’s approach is to create jobs and opportunity through the increasing defence budget in every part of the United Kingdom, including Scotland. The Norway frigate deal highlights how a UK Government selling our wares and our expertise on the global stage can provide additional jobs, with 4,000 jobs from that deal across the UK, including 2,000 in Scotland. While the SNP Government have been dithering on defence, this Labour Government have been delivering.”
“Through the defence industrial strategy, the Ministry of Defence will strengthen the defence industrial base by supporting small and medium-sized enterprises, fostering collaboration with industry and academia, creating jobs, enhancing exports support and adopting sustainable procurement practices. These measures will boost innovation, resilience and competitiveness while supporting national security and economic growth.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for celebrating the investment we are seeing. Foreign direct investment is a really important component part of building our ecosystem for defence industries. Britain is the very best place to invest in defence industries, with a talented population, increasing skills, increasing defence spending and a military that is respected the world over. We have a huge opportunity to do even more, and when I announce details of the defence industrial strategy shortly, I hope he will support that work as we seek to go further in using defence as an engine for growth in every part of the country.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for championing the BAE site in Rochester. We want more defence companies to invest more in skills. In the defence industrial strategy we are publishing today, we will not only make further investments in defence technical education colleges—with £182 million to deliver that—but provide additional support for school-based activities and university partnerships. I would be very happy to come to Rochester to see for myself the amazing work of the apprentices.”
“To a Minister just promoted by the son of a toolmaker in the reshuffle, tooling is a very appropriate question. We are targeting more of the increased defence budget at British companies, in particular small and medium-sized enterprises, with the development of the new defence SME hub, which will allow more SMEs to access the defence contracts we are providing as part of our growing renewal of our armed forces. I would be very happy to meet the hon. Lady to discuss her constituency business.”
“I am very happy to say that we are seeking growth in defence businesses in every part of the United Kingdom. When we launch the defence industrial strategy very shortly, I hope the hon. Gentleman will be able to see one of the new defence growth zones in Northern Ireland providing opportunities for young people to start new good careers in defence. Also, companies that might not think of themselves as defence companies at the moment will be able not just to sell to UK armed forces, but to take export opportunities selling to our allies around the world.”
“The strategic defence review sets out the Government’s vision for the future of defence to make Britain safer, secure at home and strong abroad. This is backed up by the Government’s historic defence investment of 2.6% on defence spending from 2027. As part of the SDR implementation, we are developing a 10-year defence investment plan which will be published this autumn.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his continuing championing of not just defence businesses in his constituency, but defence in total. The amount of parliamentary questions I have answered from him certainly shows his strong interest in this area. I want more of our defence budget focused on novel and innovative technologies. That is what we announced in the strategic defence review, with 10% going to those advanced technologies. There is a real opportunity to create more jobs that provide the world-leading innovation that will give us the edge on the battlefield, because the nation that innovates the most will be the nation that wins in any conflict. I would be very happy to discuss that further with him.”
“I have some recommendations for other defence holiday tourism, if my hon. Friend would like some. He is absolutely right to raise the importance of skills. There are huge opportunities across the nation in defence industries, but we need the workforce of the future to deliver them. That is why, in the defence industrial strategy being announced this afternoon, he will see more investment in skills, not just in defence technical colleges of excellence but in schools and university clusters, to maximise the opportunity to enhance our skills offer and make defence an engine for growth everywhere in the country.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question and thank the workers on the Clyde for their professionalism. It made the collective ministerial effort across Government much easier knowing that we have professional, dedicated and excellent workers on the Clyde who are able to build the Type 26 frigate, and on the opposite side of Scotland, supporting the workers at Rosyth, to build the Type 31 frigate, too. There is a huge future on either side of Scotland for British shipbuilding, and hopefully more export orders as well.”
“The Type 26 deal with Norway shows what is possible when we have a determined export campaign. We are looking at working with a number of our European allies, and allies further afield, on export deals, not just for our larger platforms, such as warships, but missiles, electronic systems and a whole range of defence equipment, to create more jobs here in Britain. I am happy to discuss that further with my hon. Friend.”
“There is a real opportunity to grow further the 2,000 directly supported defence jobs in the north-east. I am happy to speak to my hon. Friend further about that. May I encourage him to stay for the defence industrial strategy statement? He will hear about the further investment and opportunity that the Government hope to provide to every nation and region in the UK.”
“The hon. Gentleman is a defence expert, so he knows well that the Type 26s replace the anti-submarine warfare Type 23s in Devonport, where they will be based. He also knows that we have quick-reaction fighters at Lossiemouth and our Royal Navy submarine force based at Faslane. We have huge investment across Scotland, and we will do even more, but while the Government in Holyrood, which he backs, has dithered on defence jobs, this Government have delivered extra defence jobs for Scotland, and will continue to do that.”
“I am happy to meet the hon. Member to discuss the opportunities to use the defence estate to contribute to growth in every part of the country, including hers.”
“There is real expertise in, and opportunities for, our shipyards nationwide—both those that support Royal Navy military vessels, and those that spend much of their time working on Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels, which are the backbone of the Royal Navy fleet. There is a real opportunity in not just shipbuilding but ship repair. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss those opportunities. Given that the Labour conference will soon take place in Liverpool, perhaps I can pop over and see her.”
“My hon. Friend is simply prolific in the areas in which she is seeking to improve defence, and I would be very happy to meet her to discuss this further. There will be an announcement on skills in the defence industrial strategy that is coming out this afternoon. There is a real opportunity to expand this work, not just in defence technical education colleges, but in institutions nationwide.”
“With a clear plan backed by historic investment, our Government, alongside industry, will now deliver for Britain. I commend this statement to the House.”
“Our segmented approach to procurement sets ambitious targets to drastically reduce the timescales to get new projects on contract. As part of the biggest shake-up to the Ministry of Defence in over 50 years, we have created the role of National armaments director, and because we want UK firms to win not just at home but abroad, we will improve our export licensing system with a new digital platform, better training for staff, and reformed procedures, including allowing exporters to apply for licences during the bidding process. Unlike previous strategies, our one is funded. It is also the culmination of months of detailed work and close engagement with industry, academia, and trade unions. Throughout the process, our aim has been to produce a strategy with the defence sector, rather than to it.”
“The newly established UK Defence Innovation is backed by £400 million of ringfenced investment and has the authority to reallocate funding and resources, ensuring a focus on priorities and value for money. Today’s strategy outlines how we will employ UKDI to rapidly produce technologies that give our armed forces an advantage. We will set out the first of the innovation challenges that we want industry to go after, as well as how we will better support firms in testing their innovations. This Government inherited what the Public Accounts Committee described as a “broken procurement system”. For too long, defence has been burdened by waste, delay and complexity, yet today we know that whoever gets technology to its frontline forces the fastest, wins. We have proved that we can do it for Ukraine; now we must do it for Britain.”
“The campaign to boycott and target defence firms misunderstands the purpose of deterrence. We know the full measure of freedom and security in Britain because of what our defence industry does. The strategy will help the industry to attract the talent it needs by creating a dedicated presence on the UCAS website, a new defence apprenticeship and graduate clearing system, and a defence university alliance to strengthen careers in the sector. The war in Ukraine reminds us that innovation is the central pillar of deterrence. To ensure that we meet our objectives of better capability and increased growth, we are committed to spending at least 10% of our equipment budget on novel technologies.”
“To ensure that the UK can take full advantage, we must ensure that we have the workers with the right skills to fulfil those roles, so I am today announcing the biggest ever investment in defence skills: £182 million of new Government funding to establish five defence technical excellence colleges, so that we can promote to over 800,000 school pupils the benefits of a career in the defence industry; and our new defence skills passport, which will make it easier and faster for veterans and workers in other industries to move into the defence sector. Over the past few years, defence firms have expressed growing concerns about attending jobs fairs. The harassment and intimidation to which they have been subjected has forced companies to cancel events on university campuses.”
“Our deals will build on inherent strengths in defence communities by improving skills and infrastructure. The first phase will be launched in Plymouth, where we will focus on advanced marine technologies and autonomous systems, and in south Yorkshire, where we will build on our recent investment in defence and steel. Further locations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will be announced, because there is not only a defence dividend from our uplift in defence spending, but a Union dividend, strengthening our United Kingdom. ADS analysis indicates that the defence industry workforce could grow by 50,000 people by 2035, when defence spending increases to 3% of GDP.”
“Today, it supports over 460,000 jobs and over 24,000 apprenticeships across the UK, the vast majority of which are unionised. As a trade union member, I know that good, well-paid and unionised jobs are good not only for defence but for growth. The defence industry is a source of not only prosperity but pride; it proves that we are still a nation of makers. When I speak with defence workers, I see their deep sense of purpose in what they do. They are right to feel that way; their efforts keep our nation safe. Through our strategy, more people will be afforded the opportunities and rewards of working in this industry. To ensure that the benefits of the defence dividend are shared across every nation and region of the UK, we are investing £250 million in defence growth deals.”
“The new office of defence exports brings responsibility for defence exports back into the Ministry of Defence and creates a Government-to-Government exports structure that reflects what our allies and industry need. Sustaining sovereign capabilities is the cornerstone of national security, so our strategy sets out the requirement to onshore key assets. We will maintain the advantages afforded by open international competition, but in a way that improves value for the British taxpayer. For the first time ever, we will introduce an offset policy, designed in consultation with industry. It will mean that when we buy from our allies, the UK economy will be strengthened in return through new jobs and novel technologies. Our defence industrial base represents a commitment to innovation and excellence.”
“We will make it easier for British-based firms to do business with the Ministry of Defence. We will launch an office of small business growth to support small and medium-sized enterprises in accessing MOD contracts, and we will give greater clarity by sharing our five-year acquisition pipeline, allowing businesses to invest with confidence. The £10 billion frigate contract signed with Norway last week was the biggest warship deal in our history—a demonstration that when we export defence capabilities, we not only strengthen our security abroad, but create high-skilled jobs at home. Through our strategy, we will back British businesses to go out and win—win more contracts and create more jobs.”
“All the pledges made today can only be met because this Labour Government have committed the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war: 2.6% of GDP by 2027, and 3.5% by 2035, alongside our NATO allies. But with the promise to invest more comes the responsibility to invest better. By implementing our strategy, we will ensure that workers and businesses across the UK feel the benefit of the defence dividend. In opposition, the now Defence Secretary told the House: “Labour’s determination to see British investment directed first to British industry is fundamental.” —[ Official Report , 23 March 2021; Vol. 691, c. 798.] Today, ambition in opposition becomes action in government. Using every lever available to the Government, our strategy will prioritise British-based businesses.”
“The men and women who serve our nation are rightly respected across the world for their dedication and professionalism, yet as we know from the war in Ukraine, when a country is forced to fight, its armed forces are only as strong as the industry that stands behind them. The UK has one of the most advanced, innovative defence industrial bases the world over, but we are in a new era of threat, which demands a new era of UK defence. Our strategic defence review set out our vision to make Britain safer—secure at home and strong abroad. Through our defence industrial strategy, we will ensure that we have an industry to deliver that vision.”
“With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the defence industrial strategy. Today we fulfil another manifesto commitment by publishing our plan to strengthen our security and grow our economy. It is a plan to back British-based industry, create British jobs and drive British innovation. Before I set out the detail of the strategy, I would like to place on the record my thanks to my right hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool Garston (Maria Eagle) for her work in developing the strategy. I also extend a warm welcome to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Sandher-Jones), who has joined the Ministry of Defence team. This is a plan supported by £773 million of investment—a plan to make defence an engine for economic growth in every nation and region of our country.”
“It has the support of this Labour Government, and we will continue to increase defence spending, directing more of it at British businesses.”
“We have a clear increase in defence spending and a clear strategy published today that directs that increased defence budget at British companies, that backs British SMEs and that creates the skills that our industry needs. I know that he wants to back it. I know that he is passionate about drones, which is why I know that he will back our doubling of funding for drones and autonomous systems in the SDR. I say to him politely: this is a huge opportunity for British businesses up and down the country, in every single nation and region of our land, and the strategy sets out the objectives and opportunities. I hope that, on reflection, he will be able to welcome the strategy thoroughly and to give it full-hearted support, because our industry deserves the support of this House.”
“He knows for sure that our investments will be in the defence investment plan we will publish later this year. He also knows that for the national armaments director, recruitment is well advanced—we have appointed Andy Start as the interim NAD, but it is important that we get the right person for the role. We will continue that process. The shadow Secretary of State also asked about defence growth deals, and that is new money. He also knows that we have signed 900 deals for defence procurement contracts since the election. We will sign more on the back of the defence investment plan later this year. The hon. Gentleman also accuses us of dithering and delay, but I fear that that is political projection from the failures of his time in government.”
“I think the shadow Defence Secretary really wanted to welcome this strategy, but is finding it difficult, because the politics have got in the way. I will deal with some of that, but first let me say that I am grateful to him for his words about the attack in Kyiv. It is so important that, although we may disagree about some things across this House, there is strong cross-party support against Putin’s illegal invasion. That must never wane. I suggest politely to the hon. Gentleman that the mess in defence procurement that we inherited was one that he was in charge of when he was in government. It is, therefore, a bit cheeky of him—though, generally speaking, I like cheekiness—to raise these questions. The platforms that he asked about should have been sorted out under his Government, but never were.”