Luke Pollard
MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“As the Member of Parliament for Devonport, where we not only base-port but refit Type 23s, I know that many of those ships that have given decades of service are no longer able to provide the capabilities we need.”
“It is unlike the SNP to be so positive about defence, isn’t it? The Type 83 and Type 32 were PowerPoints—there was no budget attached to them. That is why in the defence investment plan we set out a plan for a common combat vessel and a hybrid Navy to fulfil the opportunities that the retirement of the Type 45 presents for us.”
“If the right hon. Gentleman is talking about a salary of up to £1 billion, he is cosplaying as the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), isn’t he? Seriously, we are the third-largest cash spender in NATO. At the spending review next year, we will be setting out an increase in defence spending.”
“My hon. Friend really is the Member of Parliament for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, as she is determined to champion it so frequently. She will have seen in the defence investment plan our commitment to the new generation of fleet solid support ships, and she will have seen the work that this Government have undertaken since 2024 to address…”
“I say seriously to the House that my hon. Friend has been an incredible advocate for Rosyth. I have met him on a large number of occasions, and he has been absolutely determined to talk not just about the potential of Rosyth, but about the professionalism of the men and women who work there and the opportunity for young people to have a c…”
“We inherited a situation where the north-east was the region with the lowest Ministry of Defence spend in the country and we have made it a mission to increase defence spending in the north-east. We have an incredible talent pool in the north-east, with brilliant defence companies both large and small doing brilliant work.”
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“This has been a serious debate, reflecting darkening times, uncertain times and the growing confidence of our adversaries. The warnings from the most senior Conservative Back Benchers were carefully worded, but behind that precision is deep worry. The right hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) rightly said that the cuts to our defence have been “ruthless” and the Ajax procurement process “dire”, and he was right to say that we are in “a grim state of affairs”. The hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) set out a mandate for transformation. It was a lot of home truths and hard thinking from him, and it is worth reflecting on his words. My friend the hon. Member for Witney (Robert Courts) spoke about the era of peer-to-peer conflict being back, and he is right. The hon.”
“That means that there is a real complication and a potential assault on people with intrusive medical tests to look at their biological sex at birth rather than where they are today. As mentioned earlier, it also ignores intersex people, who make up a substantial portion of our population.”
“In the spirit of calm and cool debate, I will say clearly my view on this matter, just as those opposite have: trans men are men, trans women are women, and being non-binary is valid. I am proud to be Plymouth’s first out Member of Parliament; I am probably not Plymouth’s first gay Member of Parliament, but I am certainly the first one to proudly say so before they put themselves forward for election. That gives me a special responsibility to speak up for those people whose voices are not always heard in this place. Changing the Equality Act is unnecessary, unworkable and unfair. When we talk about biological sex, we are talking about the sex assigned at birth.”
“But she has been asked to leave toilets countless times because of a rise in hate. She was born a girl; she is now a proud woman—a proud lesbian. But the rise in hate in the debate and around our country means that she worries about going to the toilet because of what other people may think of her. That is not right.”
“In the south-west at the moment, the waiting list to access trans healthcare is seven years—it is seven years. That is a disgraceful amount of time. I challenge all those people who spend so much time focusing on toilets to spend as much time focusing on healthcare and the delays in the system in order to achieve a fair place for us all. Let me say this clearly: the carefully crafted words that suggest that trans people accessing the toilets or changing rooms that they are legally allowed to access makes them a sexual predator are disgusting and wrong. What that does is contribute to a rise in hate against people. One of my friends, who describes herself as a butch lesbian, has been asked to leave toilets countless times. All she wants to do is go for a wee.”
“I will carry on if I may. Single-sex services can and do exclude trans women at the moment, using the law as it stands. Changing the definition of sex is unnecessary to achieve that policy aim. Indeed, the majority of the examples used around the room in this debate so far are already covered by the Equality Act. I am worried that the debate and the direction of travel in which this can take us could lead to a roll-back of hard-won rights for the LGBT+ community and will potentially exclude more trans people from public spaces and allow discrimination to go unchallenged. I want to hear more trans voices in the debate and I would like us to spend as much time talking about trans people’s access to healthcare as we spend talking about trans people’s rights to use a toilet.”
“As we see from the 400 pieces of legislation—”
“I will carry on if I may, because I am running out of time. It is important that we defend the Equality Act, because there are so many examples that are already covered by the Equality Act; it is important that we all look carefully at it. I appreciate that some MPs have wanted to have this debate for quite some time—wanted to have a debate about biological sex. But what I hope we can all agree on is that the right of trans people to exist, to be authentically themselves and to thrive should not be up for debate. This is why we have to be careful. We need to ensure that the debate in this country does not go down the path of how we are seeing the debate develop in America. What happened in America—we can see this—is that first they came for trans people; then they came for the rest of the LGBT+ community.”
“I will carry on if I may. We need to be very cautious: that is not to say that everyone in the debate here has made that case, but that is the direction of travel, especially when hate is bubbling in our environment. The final thing I want to say is that for the trans and non-binary people watching this debate, it is important that one of us says, “I see them. I hear them. They should be loved and supported. They should be protected in law. And there is a way through to make sure that that can happen sensibly”—”
“Well, there are trans and non-binary women and trans and non-binary men and trans and non-binary folks as well, and shockingly there are women and men in the LGBT wider community, so let us ensure that we are embracing inclusion in this, because the truth is that rising hate and discrimination makes all our lives worse, but in particular it makes the lived experience of trans and non-binary people much worse through attacks, discrimination and hate.”
“6. What recent estimate she has made of the average weekly cost of childcare for households with (a) one child and (b) two or more children.”
“In low-wage economies such as Plymouth, families are struggling to afford decent childcare and are having to choose between working all the hours God sends to afford the nursery bills and leaving the workforce to look after the kids at home. I look forward to meeting the Secretary of State tomorrow to talk about how we can keep south-west nurseries financially afloat, but mums and dads need to be kept afloat as well. What can the Minister do to make childcare more affordable and, importantly, not just load those additional costs on to nurseries that are already struggling to pay their bills?”
“Young people are bearing the brunt of the mental health crisis, and parents are worried sick. I see evidence of that every day in my inbox, and it is getting worse. When so little money is being spent on young people’s mental health, even though we know that the vast majority of mental health conditions appear in people under the age of 18, is the balance right between the money spent on adult mental health and that spent on young people’s mental health? If we want a preventive system that helps to cut costs for the taxpayer and helps people as well, is not investing early in young people the best way to achieve that?”
“We are only a few months away from having millions of people surging to the west country, and to rural and coastal communities right across the land. That puts enormous income into rural and coastal economies, which is very welcome, including in places such as Plymouth. However, it is also another nail in the coffin of people being able to locally rent and locally afford a home, as more homes are flipped to be second homes and more Airbnbs are created by chucking families out of long-term rentals. Will the new measures that the Minister has announced and is consulting on be in place by the summer recess, so that families know that when they visit a location they are not taking away the possibility of living locally for the people who provide the services on which those tourists will rely?”
“What can the Minister do to ensure that we really use our position, and are not just a commentator but a participant in finding a solution?”
“I saw for myself the work of NATO’s Kosovo Force troops when I visited Kosovo on a cross-parliamentary delegation last year. Their work is really important, but it is not given the significance that it should be given by national capitals, including London. Will the Minister put more emphasis on building on the UK’s unique position as an ally of Kosovo? Next year will be the 25th anniversary of the NATO-led intervention. How can we use Kosovo’s substantial good will—it is probably the country in Europe with the most good will towards the United Kingdom at present—to bring about greater understanding between communities, and a de-escalation of the dangerous rhetoric coming from Belgrade, potentially with involvement from Russia? I fear that it is not a coincidence that this is all happening at the same time.”
“I thank the Secretary of State for backing my campaign to designate Devil’s Point and Firestone bay in Plymouth as bathing waters. I am now targeting a sewage outlet that is pumping raw human sewage into Plymouth Sound all year round. Is it time to look again at the period during which water testing takes place in official bathing waters, and extend it from the period of 15 May to 30 September, since wild swimmers like me swim in bathing waters all year round, not just in the summer season?”
“The Peninsula Dental School in Plymouth wants to take on an additional dozen students for the next academic year. Please could he help it to do so by granting the funding? Fourthly—this will be a game changer—we need to properly fund dental therapists. Dental therapists can do 80% of what a dentist can do, but they take only three years, not five, to train. Funding them could have a profound impact on rural and coastal areas across the west country. Finally, we need our fair share of funding. Per capita, the south-west receives less funding for dentistry than nearly every other region in the country. It is not fair. There is a solution to this crisis. Let us just get on with it.”
“Despite the heroic efforts of staff, if NHS dentistry were a hospital, it would be in special measures. That is why we need an emergency rescue plan. There are ways out of this crisis. First, we need to reform the NHS contract. The changes announced to date are inadequate to address the systemic problems. We know what the solutions are. Let us get on with it. Secondly, we need a national plan for recruitment and retention. At the moment, there is no national plan to address that crisis. Thirdly, I want Ministers to increase the number of dental students in training, reversing the 10% cut from a few years ago. We do not have enough dentists in training to replace those who are leaving practice. The Minister could take an immediate step.”
“Our service is constantly slated by the public for not doing enough, and my colleagues are subjected to abuse via email and over the phone daily - despite us often going above and beyond what we are commissioned to do. It is not our service that is letting the people of Plymouth down but those in government.” What on earth would incentivise someone to go to work and stay in NHS dentistry if that is their lived experience every single day? The last Labour Government opened a new dental school in Plymouth, which is outstanding and superbly led. It is focused on social outcomes and excellent teaching, and it is rated as the best dental school in England. That is a Labour legacy that we can be proud of. However, NHS dentistry in our city is on its knees today, and responsibility for that lies firmly with the Government.”
“Ministers have also failed to address the recruitment and retention crisis facing NHS dentistry nationwide, but especially in the south-west. As mentioned by the hon. Members for West Dorset (Chris Loder) and for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord), the British Dental Association estimates that over half of all NHS dentists in the west country are likely to go fully private, and 75% say they are likely to reduce, or further reduce, the amount of NHS work taken this year. It is going to get worse. That is what I am hearing from the dentists. A professional working in the sector wrote to me with an upsetting account of what it is really like to be in NHS dentistry. She said: “As with many of my other colleagues, the state of NHS dentistry in Plymouth has broken my spirit.”
“The Dental Access Centre at Seven Trees Court in Plymouth—the only emergency dental service in the city—handles demand that far exceeds the supply of appointments. It takes over 300 calls a day, but it has only 20 available slots. We need a proper plan, not more half measures and sticking-plaster solutions. Last year, the Government announced a £50 million dentistry treatment blitz, which all hon. Members present will remember. Of the £4.76 million allocated to the south-west, the Department of Health and Social Care has clawed back £4 million. Our system is so deeply in crisis that we are unable to fulfil the contracts we already have, let alone the extra funding, because we are so short of staff to deliver them. Our NHS dental system is utterly broken.”
“For many, an NHS dentist appointment is already a mythical beast, spoken about only when prefaced with, “Do you remember when you could get one?” Ministers have broken NHS dentistry over the past 13 years. If they do not do something serious soon, we are not far away from the extinction of NHS dentistry in Plymouth. I thank all the people who work in NHS dental surgeries and practices, from dentists, to hygienists, to receptionists—who often get the brunt of angry people unable to access an appointment—to trainees and students. Our NHS dental waiting list in Plymouth is now over seven years long. It has an estimated 22,000 people on it, and it is growing each and every day. That is 10% of our population.”
“It is rare for every single party in the south-west to agree, but we do all agree on this: NHS dentistry in the region is broken, and it is getting worse. There is a huge crisis facing NHS dentistry in Plymouth, and everyone who has tried to access a dentist in my city knows it. After 13 years of Tory government, it is getting harder and harder to see an NHS dentist. Many children in Plymouth are in pain at home, having never visited a dentist. Hundreds of our kids are having their teeth removed under general anaesthetic at Derriford Hospital every year. Some patients, unable to afford private dental care, are resorting to pulling out their own teeth. NHS dentistry in Plymouth is an endangered species.”
“Could the Minister return to the question I raised about additional training places for dentists? We have a really good dental school in Plymouth that wants to take on more dental students. That could deliver a big impact for our region. Is that something that he is minded to look favourably on?”
“The reality is that second homes, Airbnbs and the planning system, which were once a niche issue, are now a regular issue in this place. We—nearly every single one of the characters due to speak today—will be back here in a few months’ time, repeating the same debate, because we are not seeing the level of action that is required. If we are speaking honestly, the Government are the blocker on this one. The Government could go further if they chose to do so. I encourage the Minister to take this message back to the decision makers in power: we need to see action on second homes, Airbnbs and the lack of affordable housing in rural and coastal communities before we truly hollow out those communities at an irreparable rate.”
“That is why we also propose a “last shop in the village” fund, created through a levy on empty second homes, that would help to support the last shop in a village, the last pharmacy, the last post office, the last pub or the last bus route. When those facilities go, communities are hollowed out. The community infrastructure that gels a community together and brings people together is lost and cannot be easily replaced. Finally, we have argued—I still think this is needed—that we need to lock in a discount for local people. I like the idea of covenants: protected, stronger covenants for local people who work in certain industries. That is a really important part of recognising that we need a mixed economy in a community, but we need to do more of it and it needs to go further.”
“In the words of the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, “there simply aren’t enough homes in this country.” We need to ensure that we have enough homes, not just enough houses. Scrapping the housing targets may have been good politics for the Prime Minister in keeping his own Back Benchers happy, but it is not dealing with the housing crisis in places such as the south-west. We need builders, not blockers, we need first homes, not second homes, and we need long-term lets, not just short-term lets. We also need to consider the profound consequences, one of which is the hollowing out of community infrastructure that comes from having too many Airbnbs and second homes in a community.”
“I note that Cornwall Council, a Tory-controlled authority, has just written to the Government asking for the power to triple council tax, raising an extra £50 million a year. In a county such as Cornwall, that would be a really important part of this. I want a licensing scheme to be introduced, but it is not enough just to have a licensing scheme. We need a very clear cap and floor so that local communities can decide how many second homes and Airbnbs are suitable in a community, to prevent it from being hollowed out. That is a really important part of a licensing scheme. It is not enough just to have a list; we need a floor and a cap to ensure that it works properly. Then we need to build more—we need to build, build, build.”
“The solution is not to convert one to the other straightaway, but to recognise that if we want to address the housing crisis, we have to build more to protect people in long-term rentals and ensure that housing is affordable for everyone. Working with Councillor Jayne Kirkham, the leader of the Labour group on Cornwall Council, and Perran Moon, our candidate in Camborne and Redruth, we put together our First Homes Not Second Homes manifesto. I presented it 18 months ago—pretty much standing in the same spot in the same debate—and I am glad that some of it has started to gain political traction. I want councils to have more power, and not just to double council tax—we originally proposed quadrupling it. I think the Government could go faster in allowing councils to do that.”
“There are too many people in rural and coastal communities, such as those I represent in Plymouth, who are being turfed out of their homes and seeing those homes being flipped immediately into Airbnbs with astronomical rates. The promise that section 21 evictions would be banned was given to families like the ones being turfed out. It needs to be delivered, but it has not been. That is a political choice. I encourage the Minister to bring forward the ban on section 21 evictions and make it proper. We need more homes. The south-west has enough houses; we just do not have enough homes for people to live in. In Cornwall, there are 23,500 households on the housing waiting list and there are approximately 25,000 second and holiday homes.”
“We are here again talking about Airbnbs and second homes. On a cross-party basis, we are all still demanding action from Ministers. Some demand it louder and some demand it more politely, but the basic premise is that the Government are clearly not listening to the needs of rural and coastal communities because the level of action that is required is not being implemented. Time and again, in debates like this, we have heard that just tweaking this little bit here or that little bit there will make a difference. It will not. We need to be honest about the scale of the housing crisis in rural and coastal communities, be honest that the pandemic turbocharged that housing crisis, and be honest about what needs to be done to change it. That is really important.”
“In March, Labour launched Homes Fit for Heroes, our campaign to highlight the failings of defence housing for service personnel. One member of the armed forces who has served for more than two decades told us that they feel pushed to leave the Army because their house is in such a state of disrepair that they described it as “unfit to live in”. The Government could have solved that crisis over the past 13 years if they had wanted to, but it is getting worse and worse, with personnel leaving because of poor housing. Will this problem be fixed before the next general election, or will the Minister leave it to the next Labour Government to clean up this Tory mess?”
“They can introduce legally binding targets to end 90% of raw sewage discharges by 2030, and they can prioritise rivers and sewage in the next set of business plans. But they could do more: they could introduce more stormwater retention tanks, automatic fines and real-time data so that we can see what is happening, and they could close the gap between a spill and a fine that currently takes many years to deliver. I would also like to see more of the money from fines go to improve our environment. Higher-level fines nearly all go to the Treasury: we need more going to our environment to improve it along the way.”
“For the past year, I have been campaigning for Devil’s Point and Firestone bay to be designated as an official bathing water, with regular water testing so that people like me who swim in that part of Plymouth sound can see what we are swimming in. I am grateful to Ministers for agreeing to the campaign; that status starts in only a few weeks’ time. The truth is that ending the sewage scandal is in the Government’s hands. They can mandate investment in closing raw sewage outlets in water company business plans. They can introduce automatic fines for sewage dumping. They can introduce mandatory monitoring for all sewage outlets and make sure each one of those monitors is working.”
“In Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, there have been 8,750 hours of dumping from 1,574 spills. In Plymouth, Moor View, there have been 4,000 hours from 540 spills, with more in South West Devon and in Torridge and West Devon, whose rivers flow past Plymouth. It is not good enough. Clean water matters to me—it mattered to me when I spoke from the Front Bench, and it matters to me when I speak now. In 2017, I proposed that Plymouth sound be designated as the UK’s first ever national marine park. In 2019, we achieved that status, and thanks to £10 million of heritage lottery money, we are improving access to the water, celebrating Plymouth’s maritime history and cleaning up our waters.”
“Raw sewage is the perfect metaphor for 13 years of Tory Britain. It is hard to find an NHS dentist or get a GP appointment, and it is hard to get a passport or find a lettuce or a tomato in a supermarket, but we can go for a swim among human waste, faeces, nappies and used condoms in our lakes, rivers and seas. Britain deserves so much better than this. There were more than 37,000 sewage spills in the south-west last year. In Plymouth alone, there were more than 2,000, an average of five spills every single day—that means that it is only 1,220 sewage spills until Christmas for us Janners—so why has South West Water been let off the hook? It is failing as a company to close down the raw sewage outlets that we need it to close in order to have a protected and safe region.”
“I hope the Minister will take seriously the suggestion from the right hon. and learned Member for Torridge and West Devon of an independent reviewer for what happens with farming on Dartmoor. This is something that Members on both sides of the House will be watching carefully.”
“Finally, no debate about Dartmoor can pass without wild camping being mentioned briefly. We need to strike a balance, of which wild camping is a part. Sometimes, there is a simple headline to be got, but we need to see a proper balance, proper relationships and proper certainty restored. I am glad that the case on wild camping was brought, because it puts pressure on Parliament to update the laws to make sure that there is a proper right to roam, not just on the countryside, but also in terms of access to rivers and waters. In return, there needs to be a proper relationship between the people who visit the land, to ensure that it is looked after and to prevent over-exploitation, and the people who look after the livestock and the environment. There is a balance to be struck here.”
“I think its mantra of farming the right breed in the right place at the right density is one that we could all agree on, but how it is implemented here is quite difficult. There is a challenge around ELMS in upland areas, which affects not only Dartmoor and the south-west but elsewhere. I see the hon. Gentleman from up north, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), who I am sure will say something similar when he gets to his feet. We also need to look at why it is important to get this right. There is an ecological prize to be won for managing the transition to get us into the right place. We need to move towards making sure that farmers are not only supported, and sustainably, but that the outcomes are clearly specified. Changes hitting hard, without much notice, do not deliver that.”
“For those who do not follow the agricultural debate in detail, I think the headline of the debate will be, “There is a threat to Dartmoor ponies.” If we are to preserve rare breeds, particularly in Dartmoor, where we have rare breeds of not only cattle but sheep—generally, in the west country we are really good at growing grass, and we get our income from the animals that eat that grass—we need to make sure that the environmental land management scheme approach, and all the regulation that accompanies it, supports not only mainstream species that are being farmed, but rare breeds. I am sure Members have read the Rare Breeds Survival Trust briefing about the risks to rare breeds.”
“But because our farming industry in the south-west is different from the agricultural sectors elsewhere in the country, ELMS need to be a success in the south-west, with our particular style of agriculture, farming and tenancy. That means we need a different way of doing it. The right hon. and learned Gentleman mentioned rare breeds and talked about the importance of Dartmoor ponies.”
“In many cases, it produces scrubland, which has a lower biodiversity and ecological value than farmland, so we need to see the transition properly managed. The third principle is effective regulation and relationships. It seems to me that for the Minister to accept the case that has been made today about an independent reviewer, he must also accept that the way that Natural England has pursued the policy has not been as good as we would like. That means we need to make the case for change, but for sustainable change over time. That is where the three principles kick in. I want to see the environmental land management schemes properly implemented. I want them to be sustainable and benefit all the different types of farming.”
“First, we should look for greater certainty for the people who farm. That means giving them an understanding of what regulatory changes will happen and how they can plan for them. Changes that hit too early, too often and too hard have a disruptive effect on businesses and the landscape. Given the complexity of Dartmoor, we should look for a carefully managed transition from one state of agriculture regulation to another. The proposed change is too fast and too hard, without sufficient information for farmers to make a decent decision. Secondly, we need to make sure that sustainability—environmental but also economic—is embedded as part of the policy. Having fewer farmers and fewer people managing the land has an adverse effect. Land that is not managed in a sustainable way by agriculture does not magically appear as dense forest.”
“Mr Hosie, I declare an interest: my two little sisters work in farming. Indeed, they used to have their sheep on a farm in Dartmoor, exercising their right to graze them on common land, so they know this subject well, and I know the passion and determination of people who farm on Dartmoor. It is not just a job; it is a relationship, which in many cases goes back generations. People have farmed that land over many years and see no advantage in destroying it, denying access to it or disrupting the balance. That is really important, because sometimes there can be a view that farmers are deliberately destroying land to make a quick buck. Environmental and farming policies have not always helped that case, but now we are in a better place. That is why we should look for the principles that the right hon. and learned Gentleman set out.”
“The effects of that in the south-west, where our farmers are more independent, there are more tenant farmers and the land is not necessarily as open to successful aggregation as the east of England’s flatter land, mean that we will produce fewer farmers, less of our land will be cared for, and there will be less stewardship in the way that Dartmoor and the surrounding countryside is looked after. I am not convinced that that is the direction that we, on a cross-party basis, wish to take agriculture in, so when the right hon. and learned Member for Torridge and West Devon raises a legitimate concern about how this policy change, which may not have troubled too many headlines outside the agricultural press to date, will have a profound effect on Dartmoor, we should listen.”
“That means that what happens for farming in the south-west is a signpost to what could happen to farming across the country. That is one reason I have argued to the Minister and the former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), about the need for certainty for our farming communities, so that they can make informed judgments about their investments and future in agriculture. I worry that the net effect of our agricultural transition from the common agricultural policy to a new future will result in fewer farmers, albeit larger farms; fewer payments from Government; and a greater adoption of technology.”
“They also face myriad complexities in the rights of tenants to access certain land at certain times, and the conditions under which they are regulated. That balance is not quite where we need it to be for Dartmoor to thrive. We want Dartmoor to thrive; it should be home to a thriving community. A good case has been made for an independent reviewer, but we have to look at why one is needed in the first place. That is because the system of regulation, the pace of change by Government, and the complex relationships between those who farm the land, those who own the land and those who visit the land is not in balance at the moment. That is the challenge to look at here. As we have heard, there are 900 farms on Dartmoor. The south-west is home to a quarter of England’s agricultural holdings and a fifth of England’s total farmed land.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Torridge and West Devon (Sir Geoffrey Cox). I greatly enjoyed his speech; in fact, I enjoy nearly every one of his speeches. He has a style of delivery that every one of us in this House can only aspire to. He made a powerful case and I hope the Minister will listen. I do not represent part of Dartmoor—I represent an urban area of Plymouth—but Dartmoor is on our doorstep, and what happens in Dartmoor has consequences for the entire south-west, including Plymouth. That is why I want to support the case made by the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and to share his concern. I met commoners on Dartmoor last summer. They operate in an incredibly complex environment of legislation and tough economic conditions, especially around the value of their produce.”
“In some cases, people who leave military service at an earlier age may not always regard themselves as veterans, so it is important that there is a representative body on the VAPCs that understands how to engage with all the appropriate groups. Finally, many Members have discussed the superb work being done by veterans’ groups in their communities. I thank all those in Plymouth undertaking that work. On Wednesday, I visited the Southampton Veterans Drop-In Centre, with Councillor Darren Paffey from Southampton City Council. The centre does vital work, and I put on record my thanks to Colin and Tracey Gaylor for the work they are doing, providing first-class support for veterans’ communities in that city. I wish the Bill a speedy passage through the rest of its stages.”