Steve Darling
MP for Torbay · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Many people may be planning to visit the English riviera this summer, and when they do they may venture on to our coasts. I hope that the Minister will ensure that common sense prevails in appropriately recompensing our coastguards, who put themselves in danger’s way to support people in tragic circumstances.”
“Together with the Heart Campaign in Torbay, I am campaigning hard to protect those services and get investment. Like others, I believe that there is a lack of acknowledgment of our frail elderly population in Devon, where the finances are not following that particular challenge.”
“It is poignant that we are having the Sir David Amess debate today, particularly in the light of the shocking murder of Ann Widdecombe only a week ago. Ann was a Devon resident, and although I may not have seen eye to eye with her politically, she definitely brought authenticity into politics in spades.”
“This could be worse for Torbay unitary authority. However, it is a catastrophic carve-up for Devon, led by Exeter and Plymouth—both Labour councils—and driven forward by a Labour Minister, which will result in a rural rump in Devon. Can the Minister please advise us on his belief as to the financial viability of this rural rump of Devon?”
“Torbay hospital is the third oldest estate that celebrates being part of the NHS. In heatwave conditions, the tower block is like an oven and that has a massive impact on patients, staff and even equipment.”
“Torbay council is the most deprived local authority in the south-west of England. I would welcome the Minister’s assurances that rearranging the deckchairs with this local reorganisation will not detract from regeneration, which is a core driver for that local authority. The new Prime Minister is set to move No.”
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“This could be worse for Torbay unitary authority. However, it is a catastrophic carve-up for Devon, led by Exeter and Plymouth—both Labour councils—and driven forward by a Labour Minister, which will result in a rural rump in Devon. Can the Minister please advise us on his belief as to the financial viability of this rural rump of Devon?”
“I also thank my staff for their sterling work supporting my constituents, whether in sunny Torbay or in even hotter Westminster.”
“Many people may be planning to visit the English riviera this summer, and when they do they may venture on to our coasts. I hope that the Minister will ensure that common sense prevails in appropriately recompensing our coastguards, who put themselves in danger’s way to support people in tragic circumstances. I hope that we will see a positive way forward there. As a Member who has a disability, I am delighted that this is Disability Pride Month. I am, however, really disappointed in the failure of my local council, Torbay council, to engage with me appropriately on special educational needs and disabilities issues. An MP should be there to champion his constituents, and I am now having to take this matter on to the ombudsman. In conclusion, I thank all the staff across the parliamentary estate for their sterling work.”
“Together with the Heart Campaign in Torbay, I am campaigning hard to protect those services and get investment. Like others, I believe that there is a lack of acknowledgment of our frail elderly population in Devon, where the finances are not following that particular challenge. You may be planning to visit Devon at some stage, Madam Deputy Speaker. In Torbay, we have an incredible hospitality offer, but it is really challenged at the moment with the national insurance hikes, the increases in utility bills and the failure by the Government to change our business rates. I implore the Government to reflect on our hospitality industry and to take a leaf out of the Liberal Democrats’ book and cut VAT by 5% for 18 months to support our hospitality industry, because that would give it a significant boost.”
“It is poignant that we are having the Sir David Amess debate today, particularly in the light of the shocking murder of Ann Widdecombe only a week ago. Ann was a Devon resident, and although I may not have seen eye to eye with her politically, she definitely brought authenticity into politics in spades. Ann would have benefited from Torbay hospital, which she could probably have seen from Dartmoor—there is an incredible view from certain patches of Dartmoor down to the fair constituency of Torbay. That hospital needs significant investment. Sadly, it has drifted down the performance league tables. It was promised investment under the Conservatives, but that was never delivered. There are fears of services being torn away from the hospital.”
“Torbay hospital is the third oldest estate that celebrates being part of the NHS. In heatwave conditions, the tower block is like an oven and that has a massive impact on patients, staff and even equipment. Does the Minister think it is time to acknowledge that buildings are time-expired, and that in the light of that we need to accelerate investment in Torbay hospital?”
“Torbay council is the most deprived local authority in the south-west of England. I would welcome the Minister’s assurances that rearranging the deckchairs with this local reorganisation will not detract from regeneration, which is a core driver for that local authority. The new Prime Minister is set to move No. 10 a further two hours away from the west of England. How will he be supporting the south-west?”
“That demonstrates the need for defibrillators in the back of response vehicles. They could have a serious impact, saving hundreds of lives up and down the United Kingdom.”
“His friends who were with him supported him with cardiopulmonary resuscitation, but he was unlucky that the ambulance was significantly delayed. Jay was unlucky that there was a stabbing incident in Coventry that evening, which meant that many ambulances had been relocated to deal with that incident. Jay was also unlucky that there was a backlog of patients being unloaded from ambulances at the nearest hospital, which, again, resulted in delays to intervention for his cardiac arrest. The ambulance arrived 24 minutes after Jay’s collapse. Sadly, it was too late. The police vehicle turned up 14 minutes after his collapse, however. According to the coroner, it was a one-in-a-million situation: if there had been intervention with a defibrillator at that point, Jay would have recovered from his cardiac arrest.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered defibrillators in police vehicles. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir John. I am delighted to have secured this debate on defibrillators in the back of police vehicles. I have been pushing for this for some time, and it is helpful that the debate is taking place on International Paramedics Day, when we celebrate the work of people who intervene to save lives. I pay tribute to Naomi Rees-Issitt, who tragically lost her son Jay on new year’s day 2022. Jay was unlucky in a number of ways. He was unlucky to have a cardiac arrest at the age of 18. He was extremely unlucky that the defibrillator that could have saved his life was only two minutes away, locked behind the gates of a school.”
“I have raised that very issue with Devon and Cornwall constabulary. Following an awful incident, a grieving mother is trying to ensure that we have stab kits across the United Kingdom. As I am sure my hon. Friend has done, I have corresponded with Avon and Somerset police on this issue. Bleed kits can save lives. I have had conversations with the security staff who support us. It is quite shocking to learn what they have in their bags in case there is an incident at an MP’s constituency surgery or another event. Such measures should not be focused solely on people like us; we need to make sure that there are opportunities to support people out in the community. Going back to the serious issue of cardiac arrests, the medical evidence shows that for every minute without intervention, there is a 10% reduction in survival for individuals.”
“Within days of them being put in the back of vehicles, there was clear evidence of the impact they made. I hope the Minister will take that into account. Another important element is that when mapping out where defibrillators are in communities, we often find they are in more affluent areas. The more deprived communities have fewer defibrillators, for whatever reason.”
“The hon. Member makes a valuable point. Resuscitation Council UK highlights that if there is an intervention within three to five minutes, the chances of survival are between 50% and 70%. It really is all about timing and how we can significantly impact that. A survey that the all-party parliamentary group for defibrillators undertook with all police forces across the country found that less than 10% of response vehicles have defibrillators as standard. That is really disturbing, because the police are often the first on the scene, as was the case with Jay. Naomi’s Our Jay charity has done stellar work in assisting both Bedfordshire and Warwickshire police to get defibrillators in a number of their vehicles. That had an immediate impact on saving lives.”
“I hope she will use this debate to clearly set out some of those steps. I encourage her to ensure that it is not just standard but mandatory for all police response vehicles to have defibrillators.”
“It shared with me that a number of the defibrillators boxes are, for good reason, hammered by the police. When the police go to an incident that may need a defibrillator, they quite rightly grab and use the one in a box near the police station. The charity has to replace loads of pads as a result. If that is not a canary in the coalmine, showing that there is a need for our policing service to be equipped with defibrillators in all response vehicles, I do not know what is. In conclusion, I hope the Minister will ensure that we take the luck out of these situations and, through public policy, make real changes that impact on people’s lives. I am aware that in response to a written question on 27 April she said she was considering the pros and cons of providing defibrillators in the back of police vehicles, and would set out next steps.”
“The police are so often the first on the scene. It ends up being a postcode lottery, whether it is because of communities are rural, coastal or more deprived. I say to the Minister that by getting defibrillators in the back of police response vehicles, we will remove some of that postcode lottery from the system, because the police would be there to support people in their hour of need. They will also have the tools to support people more powerfully, rather than simply being able to undertake CPR. That will be a massive change for people. I have talked to a local Devon charity called Jay’s Aim, which offers support across the south-west of England. It undertakes training for community groups on this issue and provides boxes in towns where people can access defibrillators.”
“I thank the Minister for allowing me to quiz her further. Can she expand on that point? Is the pushback from the National Police Chiefs’ Council, from lower levels within policing or from Government Ministers? Anyone can use a defibrillator, because it walks them through it. This is not about additional training on how to use defibrillators; it is about the availability of defibrillators where there is a crisis. Defibrillators need to be in the right place at the right time, and I cannot think of a better place than the boot of a police car.”
“I know timescales are tricky, but can the Minister provide some rough timescales on the different steps? I understand that the new national police force and procurement are a bit more distant, but can she tell us what timescales she is working to, at least on the first steps she alluded to?”
“In my discussions with coastguards in Torbay, they have shared the full spectrum of their activities. One of the most disturbing and harrowing is the recovery of dead bodies—not only where humans or pets may have gone over the edge of a cliff, but where people have died from drowning. That may be an accident or a suicide, and it will leave emotional scars on the officers. Does the Minister agree that choosing not to financially compensate people who undertake work that many of us would find really difficult is nothing short of an insult?”
“Companies such as Bay Photonics and Gooch & Housego work in partnership with South Devon college to ensure that there is a pipeline of opportunities for young people in Devon. As Liberal Democrats, we warmly welcome the proposals before us.”
“Growing the economy is one of the essential duties of the Government, and the levy is a key part of ensuring that productivity is part of that agenda. The levy gives the opportunity to grow core industries and infrastructure, and to change our economy so that we become more environmentally sound, tackle climate change and have a cleaner economy, which is essential. Many of the jobs included in the levy help achieve that. Colleagues have already alluded to the more than 1 million NEETs that are in our communities, and we know that this issue can be tackled through the levy. As Liberal Democrats, we believe in working in partnership with employers and educationalists, and we know that this can be achieved through the levy. Torbay is one of five core areas of opportunity for electronics and photonics across the United Kingdom.”
“I would welcome the Minister commenting on what appear to be 130 job cuts at Cotswold House in Torquay, which were announced last week by the Department for Work and Pensions. There are alternative locations elsewhere in the country for those people, but there are none in Torquay. That is disturbing. The DWP took on new, young people at entry-level jobs only in March, yet a few short weeks later they are effectively on notice. They either have to move to Exeter or Plymouth to work or be out of a job. I look forward to the Minister’s comments.”
“At the other end of the spectrum are the WASPI women—women who the Labour party campaigned with before the general election, made promises to and then promptly dropped like a hot potato. Labour Members said all the right things when the report came out—they even apologised—but they failed to deliver the compensation. WASPI women have again resorted to judicial review, but there need to be safeguards around the cost challenge that they face. The Government are failing to give those assurances. While it does not interfere with the judicial review, will the Minister give some assurances about the cost limitation for those campaigners? WASPI women deserve their day in court.”
“It is also disturbing that there has been a failure to properly reform business rates and manage utility bills, which continue to be an issue, particularly for our hospitality sector. There is much that I had hoped to cover in this speech, but I will cover just a couple of areas. Access to Work is a scheme that can result in real opportunities for people with disabilities or long-term illnesses. The Public Accounts Committee published a report on 12 June which highlighted that the target date for dealing with new Access to Work claims is five weeks, but it now takes up to 37 weeks. That puts people with disabilities and their employers in an invidious situation. Again, we need better tech to process claims, simpler systems and, as the Public Accounts Committee said, a firmer grip on the situation.”
“There are 96,000 civil servants working for the DWP; it is very much a leviathan. Most of those that I have come across are incredibly committed individuals who are professional and want to do the best for their community. What a sad thing it is that it feels like they are lions led by donkeys. When the Work and Pensions Committee has engaged with senior civil servants and the Secretary of State, it feels as if they are trying to wrestle a greased pig; there is a lack of grip and engagement with some of the challenges, and there are many moving parts in the DWP. When they come to wrestle the pig, it is disturbing that they then discover that the Chancellor has set them up to fail with the national insurance hike, which has sabotaged the opportunities for many young people who then end up NEET.”
“In deprived coastal communities such as Torbay, the NHS and the Department for Work and Pensions can make up a significant part of the job offer, including entry-level jobs for young people. It was therefore disturbing to hear last week that almost 5,500 jobs could be moved or be at risk of redundancy across the United Kingdom. In Torquay, there are 130 jobs at Cotswold House with no prospect of being moved to another DWP location. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss those office closures and how young people can be helped into employment through employment with the DWP?”
“I welcome the Government’s acceptance of a finding from the Liz Sayce review of carer’s allowance overpayments in respect of the underuse of waivers, given that the households concerned are often the most vulnerable in society. Has a review of the use of waivers been undertaken, and what changes have been made for frontline staff?”
“The abolition of Healthwatch will see the NHS and the Government effectively marking their own homework. Can the Minister please give some assurances about how the Government will ensure that the voice of those with learning disabilities, complex needs and dementia is heard?”
“That is a challenge for younger people, who are not in quite the same place as people may have been 40 years ago and need a bit more support, as the Alan Milburn report highlighted. There is progress to be made there. Finally, I would like to reflect on something really special to a lot of our seaside resorts: the amusement arcade. Earlier this week, I was speaking to the people who run Golden Palms in Torquay. They have exactly the same challenges with national insurance hikes and energy costs. Before the general election, they were assured that there would be changes to regulations in that world, and it was lost in the wash-up. Minister, can we please look at that?”
“As colleagues have already mentioned, we have a plan to cut VAT by 5% for hospitality until next spring, which would drive positive change and footfall up and down our high streets, and not just in our coastal communities. Beverley holiday park is an incredible, multi-award-winning family-run business, but it has been crippled by the double whammy of the national insurance hike, with the challenges around the number of people it can employ, and the lowering of the threshold to £5,000—particularly for seasonal workers. That is significant for the park. It has crippled its ability to offer the jobs it has traditionally been able to. The park also faces the challenge of taking on seasonal workers for the short peak of the season and training them up.”
“As a colleague has already mentioned, Liberal Democrats want to see a commercial landowner levy, which is a lot more sustainable and would encourage growth, rather than people being punished for investing in their businesses. As for the cost of running a business, David is paying £3,000 a month for heating and running the kitchens. The Liberal Democrats called on the Competition and Markets Authority to investigate that last autumn, but sadly it chose not to. The Liberal Democrats ask the Minister to see what she can do to support small and medium-sized businesses with their rocketing energy bills, which they are often locked into.”
“Significant upgrades to our railways across Devon, Cornwall, Somerset and Dorset are extremely important to enhance the offer of travelling by rail and get more people off the roads into more sustainable transport. At the moment, Lumo is looking at running additional trains via Bristol to Paddington from Paignton. If people could take advantage of those, it would provide an opportunity to get more vehicles off the roads. Let me move on to what Torbay has to offer when people arrive. Rock Garden is one of my favourite pub restaurants. David, the manager, told me that his business rates are crippling him; it is a great pity that we saw only tinkering around the edges of business rates from the Government rather than the wholesale reform that we were promised.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stuart. I congratulate the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East (Joe Robertson) on obtaining this important and illuminating debate. I look forward to the Minister’s comments. I was heartened that a number of Members said that transport was significant for our coastal communities. That is a massive pinch point for me and colleagues in Devon and Cornwall. At least in Torbay, my part of Devon, our audience is mostly the west midlands and south Wales. The route down is sometimes a bit of a car park on the M5 in high season, so making sure that we enhance the offer of our railways is extremely important. We have an unfinished job at Dawlish—section 5 of the scheme is yet to be done.”
“There are real challenges, whether they involve Jaguar Land Rover or people’s personal finances, and the consequences can be devastating. We know that the number of threats to national infrastructure has doubled over the last year, mostly from hostile players elsewhere in the world. Minister, we should develop a sovereign digital approach to such threats, so that we can protect our own infrastructure without having to outsource it to a third party.”
“I visited Moldova earlier this year, and people there were really alive to it, because Ukraine is acting as their shield. Russia is engaging in lots of nefarious activities in that part of the world and the Moldovan population is used to dealing with false information. Secondly, I was delighted to support an event at Torquay Library last week, where a librarian called Hazel was helping youngsters to understand which sources of news can be trusted and which cannot. I would like the Minister to reflect on how that approach could be built into our curriculum, because the sooner we make young people, and their parents and grandparents, alive to the importance of such an approach, the better. Another area of significant challenge is cyber-security.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Barker. I congratulate the hon. Member for Dunfermline and Dollar (Graeme Downie) on securing this debate. It has been extremely fruitful and I hope that the Minister will be able to answer all the questions that have been asked. In preparing for the debate, I reflected on Raymond Briggs’s book, “When The Wind Blows”. It is shocking to think that it was published 44 years ago. It is a very useful reflection on how the state failed to prepare the UK for nuclear war and on how we were equally unprepared. I also reflected some of the challenges that we face. Although the number of challenges we face now may have increased, the players out there—Russia, Iran, China or North Korea—are the same. I will touch on three key areas today. First, there is false information or fake news.”
“I welcome most findings of the Alan Milburn review; the Liberal Democrats welcome the sense of direction. However, I have some key questions. Does the Minister have some clear economic plans to grow jobs for young people, and how can we develop greater connections with our European partners in order to grow our economy?”
“It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams), who always has something of value to bring to the Chamber. There are 1 million youngsters not in employment, education or training; this has been brewing for many years, but sadly has been exacerbated by the new Labour Government. We have seen the sad decline of our high streets over the last 20 years, a quarter of a million jobs lost in retail in the last five years and, since the last Budget, 100,000 jobs lost in hospitality. The dual impact of the national insurance change—the jobs tax—and business rates has hit hard. Whitbread has cut 3,800 jobs across the United Kingdom, with the closure of two restaurants in my constituency—one in Torquay and one in Paignton.”
“Only a few years ago, it identified a failure by domiciliary care workers who were supporting the most vulnerable people in their own homes. That resulted in an investigation, which took away the contract from that provider, and another provider ended up better supporting those people. How can we expect that to happen if we effectively give the duty to providers to mark their own homework? Let me focus on the better care fund. It is bonkers that this is being handed on a plate to the NHS acute care services. There needs to be partnership working between adult social care providers and the NHS. It should be driving better care—it says that on the label. This is extremely perverse. I hope that as the Bill progresses, common sense will prevail in a number of areas.”
“We have section 75 arrangements, yet because there has been a failure of focus on this matter by NHS colleagues over a number of years, they have been binned in recent months. We have appealed to the Secretary of State to intervene, but he has failed to do so. In the light of that, how can we have any confidence about greater influence from the Secretary of State? When the appeal happened, he said, “It is a contractual relationship.” The integrated care organisation has resulted in many people being discharged early and people being cared for in the community at a grassroots level. As Liberal Democrats, we know that that is desperately important. The binning of Healthwatch is disturbing. I pay tribute to Kevin Dixon, who heads up the organisation in Torbay and Devon.”
“As I am sure is the case in many other constituencies, the NHS is perhaps the most valued service in Torbay, where it is the largest employer. Ironically, while the Government talk about investing in the NHS, Torbay is looking at 300 voluntary redundancies. Rather than the investment that the Government talk about, the reality in Torbay is job cuts, many of which are likely to be to clinicians. That is the background to my comments, which I will limit to the crucial ones. Torbay has had the luxury of an integrated care organisation, which has been vaunted internationally as the way forward. The direction of travel of the Government is very much toward integrated care organisations, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) alluded to.”
“I would like to raise with the Minister the fact that we are looking at around 1,000 redundancies across the NHS in Devon, which is a significant employer. That is cutting the legs off employment in communities such as mine in Torbay.”
“In Torbay and across the whole of Devon, we are looking at hundreds of redundancies in that service. The argument we regularly hear from the Government is that they have put up national insurance rates in order to invest, but we have had hundreds of millions of pounds of cuts to our services in Devon. That means fewer job opportunities for our people in Devon, which is hitting some of our most deprived communities. In conclusion, we need to back our communities. We Liberal Democrats believe that nobody should be enslaved by poverty, ignorance and conformity, and we need to set the foundations for supporting communities. However, the communities we really need to work with much more closely are our friends on the other side of the channel; we need to build stronger working relationships with our European partners to grow our economy.”
“I was pleased that the Secretary of State talked about Access to Work, and the Disability Minister often refers to Access to Work as the best kept secret, but the reality is that the system is broken. We are looking at 37 weeks for decisions on Access to Work applications, and people are losing job offers. The No Limits café in Newton Abbot, which served my constituents from Torbay, closed after a lack of liquidity in its finances because of delays in payments. We need to ensure that there are no behind-the-scene cuts to Access to Work through the Government failing to make inflationary increases to what people can claim, as was highlighted by the Disability News Service only last week. The Liberal Democrats fought the last general election on a pledge to clean up our waters, be they seas or rivers; the cost of living crisis; and the NHS.”
“Other businesses across Torbay, whether it is the Livermead House hotel or the outstanding Rock Garden pub and restaurant, tell me that they face real challenges and have had to shrink the number of youngsters they take on just to meet their budgets, partly due to inflation, but also because of the national insurance hikes, so we face some real challenges there. I say to the Government that we need to think about driving positive changes, because at the moment, it appears that they are papering over the cracks, rather than getting to the root causes of problems in our economy and helping to grow the opportunities for young people across the United Kingdom.”
“That ended without a replacement, and the world is therefore a poorer place, particularly for youngsters who had adverse childhood experiences and are on the margins of employment. As we have seen, the tax on work—the national insurance hike—has really hit opportunities for employment hard. Employment in the hospitality sector has shrivelled, with the loss of more than 100,000 jobs. It is a cold hand on the heart of the west country and our hospitality industry. When I speak to organisations such as Splashdown, a water park in Paignton, they say that they have money to invest, but fear a further economic shock. Sadly, Wild Planet Trust, which managed Paignton zoo for many years, had to pass the zoo over to a Dutch company, because the national insurance hike had a massive impact on its ability to make the figures work.”
“When I meet young people, I know that they have faced a lethal cocktail, when it comes to being work-ready. There was the covid crisis through much of their educational life; there is the pressure cooker of social media, which eats into their confidence; and finally, there is the cost of living crisis, which young people are not immune from. It may mean not only that they have less opportunity, but that mum or dad face real pressures, so there are some real challenges. I pay tribute to organisations in the Torquay and Paignton area of Torbay that support young people, such as Eat That Frog, Sound Communities, Doorstep Arts and the South Devon college, which have all benefited from the shared prosperity fund.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Walsall and Bloxwich (Valerie Vaz). One would normally imagine that the King’s Speech was an opportunity to press the reset button, but I fear that Labour Members are searching for another reset button at this time. We Liberal Democrats fear that the King’s Speech is somewhat timid in its ambition, and does not drive the change that many of our communities have a thirst for. I will focus on youth unemployment and our NEETs—those not in education, employment or training. This is a massive challenge for our society. People are three times more likely to be unemployed if they are under the age of 25. To be fair to the Government, the issue was not created on their watch, but during their watch, they built on what happened under the Conservatives, due to the pressures on the system.”
“However, although the Liberal Democrats welcome the significant concessions—those steps in the right direction—the Rubicon has still been crossed. We continue to have grave concerns.”
“The Liberal Democrats have opposed mandation from day one, and we have continued to oppose it throughout the passage of this Bill. The challenge is that once we cross the Rubicon, we change the dynamics of pensions significantly. Crucially, people need to have confidence that contributing to pensions is a good way of saving for their retirement. If we undermine that through Government interference, it will reduce people’s confidence in saving for their pensions. That would be a complete reversal of what this Bill is all about, because it is mostly about making sure that our pension system is fit for the future and fit to serve those who are looking to have a good retirement. That is to be celebrated, and the vast majority of this Bill is to be welcomed.”