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UK PARLIAMENT · SITTING

Steve Darling

MP for Torbay · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

“Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mr Reynolds), said earlier, it is about growing the economy and unshackling ourselves by using what opportunities there are for us; not choosing to keep to those red lines is extremely important.”

House of Commons29 October 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

“As colleagues have already highlighted, the national insurance hike has also hit that industry. Even raising the level at which it kicks in would be helpful, particularly for those not in education, employment or training and young people by providing those opportunities for their first job in the hospitality industry.”

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“It is somewhat disturbing that there is only £190 million in the Budget to support our NHS. That would not even cover the rebuild of Torbay hospital, which is desperately needed. I hope that the Chancellor will continue to push hard on supporting our NHS.”

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“Torbay has one very sad accolade: it is the most deprived constituency with a Liberal Democrat MP. The cost of living crisis is therefore close to my heart. The fact that the Government have reduced fuel bills for some people is welcome, but it is a small step.”

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“Regional airports, such as Exeter airport, should be engines of economic growth. However, one often sees that airport services gravitate towards larger regional airports.”

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“On 7 September, the Secretary of State made a commitment that Devon MPs would be able to hold a meeting with the appropriate Minister to discuss local government reorganisation in Devon. Sadly, that meeting has not occurred to date. What timescale can the Minister give for such a meeting occurring?”

House of Commons29 October 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

The complete record

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  1. “Would the Minister be kind enough to reflect on a situation currently at play in the market, whereby Phoenix Group is withdrawing the management of billions of pounds from Aberdeen Group? These master products offer opportunities that could significantly impact on viability. Could the Minister reflect on that?”

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  2. “Reflecting on events over the weekend, may I congratulate the Minister on being one of the few who remained in post? There is talk of the Prime Minister using all levers of power to drive forward work on certain wicked issues. One of the big wicked issues is the lack of affordable housing. In my constituency of Torbay, only 8% of our housing stock is social-rented, compared with a national average of 17%. I encourage the Minister to reflect again on this and take the opportunity of new clause 4—surely socialists should vote for clause 4. This is another opportunity to apply all the pressure we can to drive more social-rented housing, to support our communities and those most in need in society.”

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  3. “I echo what the shadow Minister has just highlighted. We all want the reform that the Bill introduces, but we do not want what results from this process to be set up forever, with a lack of opportunity for change; I will talk a little further about that when we come to new clause 3. Some reassurance from the Minister that there is an opportunity for new entrants and innovation would be extremely welcome.”

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  4. “It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. Will the Minister put a little more flesh on the bone in respect of the ladder of opportunity for new entrants? We need to make sure that we do not end up with a system with large schemes and nobody being able to get into the super-league of opportunity that we have currently. We want to see innovation over time and hoped that, through the new clause, we could bake that into the system. We can have aspirations for how future Ministers deal with these matters, but we must give confidence to the industry in respect of future entrants, so that it continues to be a vibrant industry that drives investment and growth for people’s pensions. That is essential. We would be extremely grateful for some more flesh on the bone.”

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  5. “It also requires a whole of market assessment to ensure the best solutions are chosen for members. It is a privilege to move the amendment, because as Liberal Democrats we want to make sure that pensioners are at the heart of the Bill, as do many colleagues of different parties in this room, I am sure. For us, it is about driving a positive culture of engagement. The expectations that these proposals would place on managers or trustees would drive a positive engagement culture, as well as putting guardrails and protections around investments. I would welcome the Minister’s reflections on how the Bill would tackle our aspiration for the positive engagement culture that I am sure all Members in the room wish to see achieved through the Bill.”

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  6. “I beg to move amendment 279, in clause 42, page 55, line 40, at end insert— “(4A) The trustees or managers of a relevant scheme, in determining whether to adopt or vary a default pension benefit solution, must— (a) issue a written notice of the proposal to all members of the scheme, including— (i) the expected impact on benefits and investment strategy, and (ii) a written attestation that a market-wide assessment of all available options was undertaken; (b) ensure a consultation period of at least 60 days has elapsed; (c) confirm that fewer than 10 per cent of eligible members have objected in writing.” This amendment adds the “without member opposition” safeguard to defined contribution schemes when changes to default pension benefit solutions are considered.”

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  7. “Amendment 154, in clause 42, page 56, line 16, leave out “established under a trust”. This amendment amends the definition of “relevant scheme” so schemes that are not established under a trust may fall within the definition. Amendment 155, in clause 42, page 56, line 25, at beginning insert “(1)(b) or”.— (Torsten Bell.) This amendment provides for negative parliamentary procedure for regulations that prescribe when or in what circumstances default pension benefit solutions need to be reviewed. Clause 42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 43 Transferable members”

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  8. “I thank the Minister for his positive feedback. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendments made: 152, in clause 42, page 56, line 1, leave out “are to assess the needs and interests of its” and insert “of a scheme are to assess the needs and interests of the scheme’s”. This amendment corrects a minor verbal inconsistency. Amendment 153, in clause 42, page 56, line 14, leave out “money purchase benefits” and insert “benefits falling within paragraph (a) of the definition of ‘money purchase benefits’ in section 181(1) of the Pension Schemes Act 1993”. This amendment restricts the definition of “eligible member” of a relevant scheme so that it does not include members who are accruing or entitled to collective money purchase benefits.”

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  9. “I am sure that the Minister, as a fellow Devon MP, will be only too well aware of our thriving high-tech cluster and the support it provides to the defence industry from its base in Torbay. What assurance can the Minister give our high-tech cluster in Torbay that it will be taken account of as this strategy develops, so that it can play its part in supporting our nation’s defence?”

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  10. “In Torbay, we have almost 50% more people who rent in the private sector than the national average. While the vast majority of landlords are good landlords, sadly there are some rotten apples out there. Pushing against Lords amendment 26 is essential, because we need to ensure that local authorities have the powers to hold these landlords to account. I hope my hon. Friend agrees.”

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  11. “When I visit teachers in Torbay secondary schools, I reflect on how there is often a bay mentality and a lack of aspiration for youngsters. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that often in our local coastal communities there is a lack of aspiration compared with many metropolitan areas, where there is greater richness of culture and opportunity for our young people?”

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  12. “I am concerned about the Getting It Right First Time NHS template that the health service applies to our health services in Devon and Cornwall. It is a system that is very much drawn from the metropolitan experience of health provision and does not account for sparsity and the fact that we have seas either side of us. Can the Minister assure us that Getting It Right First Time will take account of places where there is rurality and coastal impact on our health services?”

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  13. “However, for us it is about making sure that we keep local links to communities, and driving positive change through that investment in our local communities is absolutely essential. I look forward to the debates over the next few weeks.”

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  14. “As the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, and echoing the hon. Member for Wyre Forest, I broadly welcome the thrust of the Bill. We heard in evidence that a lot of the industry is playing catch-up and is about 15 years behind those who are best in class. As Liberal Democrats, we are keen to make sure that we are supporting particularly those who are more challenged in being able to save or to make the right decisions, and that we use what levers we can to tackle issues such as climate change and cleaning up our environment. We look forward to working with colleagues on this Committee. On the local government pension schemes and the pots, we welcome the direction of travel.”

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  15. “Clearly, investors would want to invest in the local area to drive economic development, but there is a need to balance that with getting positive outcomes for the pension fund. Some guidance from the Minister on how he sees that balance being struck, as the hon. Members for Wyre Forest and for Mid Leicestershire have alluded to, would be helpful.”

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  16. “I start by wishing the Minister a happy birthday. [Hon. Members: “Hear, Hear.”] I am sure that for all of his life he has wanted to be sitting on a pensions Bill Committee on his birthday. More seriously, when we were in desperate measures in my time as a local authority councillor in Torbay, we borrowed to invest and make money for the local authority—that was once upon a time, because it is no longer possible—so I know from experience that authorities often have to invest elsewhere in the country to get the best financial returns. Our experience in Torbay was that a lot of our investments in the south of England got in the money that we needed to keep the local authority ticking over. I would therefore welcome the Minister’s thoughts on how we get the balance right.”

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  17. “The Minister spoke of a couple of opportunities for regulation in this area, and we heard oral evidence about how an awful lot of this Bill is to be drawn out in secondary legislation. Will he give us timelines for when he plans to share the regulations, or at least begin the consultation on them, and say what he sees as the key elements of those regulations that will break cover in due course? Question put and agreed to. Clause 2, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.”

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  18. “I very much echo what the hon. Member for Wyre Forest said. Clearly, surpluses have built up over a number of years since the last crash. There has been a level of overcaution. It is important for our economy that those surpluses are appropriately released, which could drive economic growth. I am sure that all of us in the room want to see that.”

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  19. “I rise to speak in respect of amendments 265 and 267, which echo the issues already covered by the shadow Minister. Allowing 60 days’ notice to scheme members is extremely important to the Liberal Democrats—and, to be fair, I am sure it is also important to the Government—and the central intention is to protect outcomes for members of schemes and ensure that there is enough flexibility. That 60 days’ notice is really important to us. Ensuring that there is enough money in the scheme for any buy-out is the second element, which the hon. Member for Wyre Forest has already alluded to. We think it is very important that the finances are there and that we put scheme members at the centre of the proposals before us. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what reassurance he is able to give us on those points.”

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  20. “Can the Minister give us some timescales? I asked previously about timescales, regulations and secondary legislation. I would be grateful if the Minister could address that.”

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  21. “For people for whom the financial world is a complete challenge—and even for many of us in this room, getting our head around it totally is a bit of a challenge—it is essential that we use every possible lever to make sure that quality advice is available. As Liberal Democrats, we will unashamedly use every opportunity in the Bill to provide high levels of education for those who are in receipt of pensions and to give them as much wind in their sails as possible.”

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  22. “I should start by saying that I do not recognise the purist approach that we have heard from the hon. Member for Aberdeen North. This is an issue close to my heart, because my father, having seen the poverty that his father was in, saved significantly in his private pension scheme as a lorry driver. Sadly, however, he was extremely poorly advised, and as he approached retirement he put thousands and thousands of pounds into equities; then, in the late 1980s, there was a stock market crash. He might as well have burned half of his money. The further we drive the health of the pension industry, the better, and particularly knowledge for those who may not be very much in the financial world. We heard in evidence from NEST that only 40% of people have even registered online to know what their pension is doing.”

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  23. “I beg to move amendment 264, in clause 9, page 9, line 4, at end insert— “(e) Where regulations under subsection (2A) lower the funding threshold for a surplus payment to below the full buy-out funding level, the Secretary of State must— (i) conduct an assessment setting out— (A) prescribed stress scenarios and their impact on funding, (B) a maximum permissible extraction percentage for each scenario, and (C) contingencies to restore funding; (ii) consult the Pensions Regulator, the FCA, and such actuarial bodies as may be prescribed; and (iii) lay a report of the assessment before Parliament.” This amendment requires the Secretary of State to conduct an assessment when the DWP calibrates any extraction threshold below buy-out.”

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  24. “Amendment 264 would provide a backstop and a check where there are potential extractions and buy-outs. It would give an opportunity for the Secretary of State to cast an eye over the process when the DWP does an assessment. It goes back to safeguarding: as I am sure this Committee will discuss repeatedly, we need to ensure that we have investors’ and beneficiaries’ best interests at heart. I hope that the Secretary of State will take the proposal at face value, as an appropriate guardrail, and I look forward to its endorsement.”

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  25. “I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn . Amendment proposed : 258, in clause 9, page 9, line 21, leave out “in subsection (2A), after ‘section’ insert ‘37(2A),’” and insert “in subsection (2), after ‘virtue of’ insert ‘(za) section 37(2A)’”.— (Mark Garnier.) This amendment would make all regulations on DB surplus extraction subject to the affirmative procedure all times they were made rather than just after first use. Question put, That the amendment be made.”

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  26. “I beg to move amendment 269, in clause 10, page 10, line 10, at end insert— “(aa) make, publish and keep under review the consistency of— (i) regulated VFM schemes, or (ii) regulated VFM arrangements, with the goals of the Paris Agreement on climate change and clean energy;”. This amendment, with Amendment 270, would require pension funds and managers to show whether their portfolio investments are consistent with the Paris Agreement.”

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  27. “On climate change, clean energy and cleaning up our seas and rivers, the amendments are writ much larger, without interfering in where the money should be invested.”

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  28. “In tabling these amendments, we wanted to make sure that we calibrated them carefully. It is not about giving a clear instruction that says, “You must do this”; it is about ensuring that investors are alive to the Paris agreement on climate change and clean energy and that our water companies are complying with cleaning up our rivers and seas. Introducing a duty to report on how funds are having an impact on that would ensure a level of awareness without dictating to investors and thereby having an impact on the fiduciary duties that trustees should clearly have. Throughout the Bill, the Government have quite rightly highlighted how pensions can be a force for good for our economy and for those who invest in it. The amendments would reinforce that approach.”

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  29. “Climate change is an existential threat to humanity, and although sewage may not be such a threat, it is still a significant issue; indeed, it is a wicked issue that needs to be tackled by our society as a whole. I wish to press the amendment to a vote, to show the Committee’s intent ahead of the Bill’s next stage. Question put, That the amendment be made.”

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  30. “That had eluded me, Sir Christopher, so thank you for drawing me out on this one. Amendments 1 and 2 ensure that there is consistency and that there are no gaps where schemes could perhaps fall between the cracks of legislation. We feel that the amendments would give that continuity of support to schemes.”

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  31. “As I stated earlier, one of our key drivers is making sure that people are able to make quality, informed decisions about their financial long-term future. The debate on the new clause drives that agenda. I am sure that the Minister has the best intentions, but what we are discussing is still within regulations that have yet to break cover. We would be more comfortable if it was in the Bill rather than tucked away in regulations. We will seek to press the new clause to a vote when the time comes. Question put and agreed to. Clause 12 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 13 Member satisfaction surveys Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”

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  32. “I welcome the Minister’s thoughts on how this framework can avoid that herding and how he would do that. I fear that the answer will be, “It will all be in the regulations and secondary legislation”, but some words of wisdom from the Minister would be welcome.”

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  33. “This is a very interesting debate as lives continue to lengthen. In terms of people’s capabilities at different ages, 70 is probably the new 60. The reality is that someone might want to take out a proportion of their pension and hope for growth into their 80s, and then crystallise it at that stage of their life. Not that long ago, we had to buy an annuity, and there was not much choice, so we hit a hard wall. There is greater flexibility in the system now. I want to talk about chickens. We heard talk in the evidence earlier this week of herding chickens, and of people not wanting to be the only white chicken in brown chicken world. It is about allowing the risk that drives growth. We know that allowing that risk can also drive a more vibrant economy.”

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  34. “Many tourism industry businesses in Torbay raise concerns about the impact of Airbnb, both on safety and legality. Surely the Government should publish their long-awaited short-term let registration scheme as a matter of urgency.”

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  35. “There has been a lethal cocktail of the national insurance hike; the cost of living crisis, which has impacted not only the industry but the punters who have less discretionary spend; and the failure to properly reform business rates, which is essential. One sector of our tourist industry that has been particularly hit is our zoos and aquariums. They have also suffered from the bum Brexit deal, which has left them with some real challenges in being able to replenish their animals from other zoos across Europe and elsewhere in the world. As such, I ask the Minister to convene a summit for zoos and aquariums up and down the country to assist them with the real economic challenges that many are experiencing in the challenging world that we in the United Kingdom face.”

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  36. “I warned last November that the national insurance hike would rip the heart out of our hospitality industry in the west of England and, sadly, I have been proven right. The Office for National Statistics has highlighted that there are 84,000 fewer jobs in this sector than there were, and there were a quarter fewer vacancies in the sector this summer in Devon and Cornwall. As colleagues have already highlighted, those are often entry-level jobs—opportunities for students to get some extra money in the summer break to help them through their time at university—so this is extremely important.”

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  37. “First—strangely for this debate—I would like to directly address part of the motion that is before us this afternoon. I am concerned that the harassment of people in the hospitality sector would be made worse under part of the motion. However, I strongly support the motion as a whole. As somebody who was brought up in a guest house in Torquay, you could say that the hospitality industry is in my blood. In my mind, Torbay is the premier resort in the United Kingdom; sadly, it is also the most deprived constituency that rejoices in having a Liberal Democrat MP, so there are some wicked challenges there as well. My constituency has an income of £371 million from the hospitality sector. That is £1 million more than the national constituency average, with 1,000 businesses across the constituency rejoicing in providing hospitality.”

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  38. “Q I seek some clarification from Michelle. At the moment, there is a fee extracted to support your organisation. What if that fee were ceased? Michelle Osterma n n: I assume you are speaking of our levy?”

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  39. “As such, we have built up £14 billion of reserves and so now consider ourselves largely self-funding. We no longer need to collect that levy from the industry now that those reserves are sitting there—in so far as we can best tell with our models today. We prefer to reserve the right to turn it back on should we need it in the case of a market correction event, some unforeseen circumstance or an evolution in the industry. However, right now, those fees are no longer required by us; it is a risk assessment that is suggesting that.”

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  40. “Our reserves are often referred to as a surplus, but they are not a surplus; they are reserves sitting there for potential claims in 50, 80 or 100 years. We will be the last man standing in this industry. We are here as an enduring and perpetual solution. As long as there is DB in the industry, we will have to backstop it. We set aside those reserves for the 9 million members and current £1 trillion in case of future market environments that we cannot predict today. Those levies have been collected over 20 years from the constituents of that industry. We have collected just over £10 billion from that levy system and have paid out £9.5 billion of it as claims to the pension fund. As those levies were coming in over that 20-year period we were investing them in an open DB growth-type strategy.”

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  41. “At the same time, if a corporation fails, we take its pension scheme, which is usually underfunded, and its orphan members and put them into a pension scheme. We are both a pension manager and an insurer of sorts. When there is a failure and a scheme comes to us with insufficient assets to make good on its pension liabilities, we take some of our reserves almost as a claim, and move them over to the pension fund so that it is fully funded at all times using a largely liability-driven investment-type strategy. The levies that we collect are twofold: first we collect a levy related to the risk of the industry. You may be familiar with our purple book and the industry-wide assessment we do. We monitor the risk of that entire complicated £1 trillion industry to decide how much to set aside as reserves.”

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  42. “Yes. Michelle Osterma n n: We have several types of levies that support our organisation. If I may, I will just take a step back to help everyone to understand what role they play. The PPF is not terribly well understood because we are a bit unique in this industry and there are only half a dozen bodies like us in the world. The UK is one of the few countries that have a protection fund such as this. In some ways we back as an insurer in that we collect premiums or levies from the industry from the 5,000 corporate DB schemes and backstop 9 million potential future members that still sit in those schemes. We collect the levies and hold them in reserve much like an insurance company. We are not an insurance company, but we do so much like they would mathematically and with similar models.”

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  43. “Grooming gangs are entirely abhorrent, as are all forms of grooming leading to sexual exploitation. This summer I met a Torbay resident whose 15-year-old adopted son had been groomed online and then prostituted online. Can the Minister please tell us how she intends to tackle all forms of grooming that lead to sexual exploitation?”

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  44. “Around a year ago, the Labour Government inherited from the previous Conservative Government around 3 million pensioners in poverty. Sadly, last winter’s cuts to the winter fuel payment saw many pensioners pushed into hardship. In the light of winter fuel price hikes, will the Minister reconsider the Government’s proposals and ensure that moneys are paid to pensioners who missed out on the winter fuel payment last winter?”

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  45. “The Government are right to want to see more people with disabilities and long-term sickness get into work. Sadly, this was used to justify the savage cuts to benefits that were proposed earlier this year. My colleagues and I are hearing reports of cuts to current awards through Access to Work, and to new payments, being done by the back door. Can the Minister cast any light on whether guidance has been given to civil servants on such cuts?”

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  46. “The war in Gaza is horrific on a number of different levels. I would like to focus on one particular level: it is the deadliest conflict for journalists, who often act as our window into atrocities. Will the Secretary of State please explain why we are selling any arms to Israel?”

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  47. “Rachel has to home tutor her youngster because provision was withdrawn. Shaan had to give up work because there was inadequate provision for her youngster. A non-verbal autistic youngster had two really good offers for education, but neither was accepted by the local authority. I look forward to the Minister’s reflections because, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells identified, these are some of the most vulnerable youngsters in our communities, and they deserve better.”

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  48. “What are the Minister’s reflections on the future of the safety valve system, because it has some real challenges? I would also welcome the Minister’s reflections on the ladder system that is applied in Torbay, in which the level of intervention with a child is increased quietly, bit by bit, from mainstream education to a high level of intervention, and so on, until the right level is found. But to achieve that level, the youngster has to have failed repeatedly in school. That reinforces trauma both for the youngster and the family involved, through failure after failure. Surely that ladder system cannot be appropriate for the youngsters or their families. It seems a very wicked way, rather than sending those youngsters directly into the appropriate places. I will give a couple of examples from my constituency.”

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  49. “I would like to know how the Minister is holding the health system to account on this issue, not just local authorities and education departments. As an example, I am aware of one failing in Torbay where a decision should have been made by the end of March for a youngster on where their next year’s placement would start in September. They were only told the day before they started their GCSEs that their placement was going to be changed, which, un-shockingly, sent them into a meltdown, and they underperformed massively. I would particularly like to hear the Minister’s reflections on a couple of areas. One is the safety valve system. That is very much financially driven, but what investigations has the Minister made into how that system may have driven any improvement of the outcomes of SEND pupils, or not?”

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  50. “It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Mike Martin) on securing this debate. Although Torbay is not in the south-east, I am sure that a lot of our SEND issues are reflected there. A recent Ofsted report on our SEND provision identified widespread failings for children with SEND and disabilities. Although a lot of colleagues have highlighted challenges with local authorities, we must also reflect that the health service needs to play its part in driving the positive change that we need for our young people. Only yesterday, health bosses failed to turn up and play their part at a continuous improvement meeting for youngsters in Torbay, even though that Ofsted report was under discussion.”

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