Steve Darling
MP for Torbay · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Many people may be planning to visit the English riviera this summer, and when they do they may venture on to our coasts. I hope that the Minister will ensure that common sense prevails in appropriately recompensing our coastguards, who put themselves in danger’s way to support people in tragic circumstances.”
“Together with the Heart Campaign in Torbay, I am campaigning hard to protect those services and get investment. Like others, I believe that there is a lack of acknowledgment of our frail elderly population in Devon, where the finances are not following that particular challenge.”
“It is poignant that we are having the Sir David Amess debate today, particularly in the light of the shocking murder of Ann Widdecombe only a week ago. Ann was a Devon resident, and although I may not have seen eye to eye with her politically, she definitely brought authenticity into politics in spades.”
“This could be worse for Torbay unitary authority. However, it is a catastrophic carve-up for Devon, led by Exeter and Plymouth—both Labour councils—and driven forward by a Labour Minister, which will result in a rural rump in Devon. Can the Minister please advise us on his belief as to the financial viability of this rural rump of Devon?”
“Torbay hospital is the third oldest estate that celebrates being part of the NHS. In heatwave conditions, the tower block is like an oven and that has a massive impact on patients, staff and even equipment.”
“Torbay council is the most deprived local authority in the south-west of England. I would welcome the Minister’s assurances that rearranging the deckchairs with this local reorganisation will not detract from regeneration, which is a core driver for that local authority. The new Prime Minister is set to move No.”
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“The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point; I am sure that the Minister will reflect on it when winding up. The Liberal Democrats continue to oppose mandation, and we plan to vote against the motion tonight.”
“A recent Guardian report highlighted how young people from more deprived communities are facing discrimination through the apprenticeship system. As my hon. Friend the Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) alluded to, there is a penalty if someone’s family also receives child benefit. How can the Minister intervene to support the most vulnerable families?”
“The Department for Work and Pensions is currently reviewing over 200,000 cases of overpayments for carers, some of whom have accrued up to £20,000 through a situation not of their own making. In the light of this, will the Secretary of State stop applying carers penalties until the Department has completed this review?”
“As the shadow Secretary of State has said, there is a lot to be welcomed in the Bill. In considering the Bill, we have looked to Australia and Canada, and at best practice throughout the world, and there is much we have drawn from. For the Liberal Democrats, the pensions world that we are looking to enter with this Bill is greatly to be welcomed. Up and down the United Kingdom—from Tobermory in Mull to Torbay in Devon—we desperately need greater investment in our economy. We must make sure that we have a productive economy, but mandation is not the way to achieve that.”
“We welcome the changes allowing greater innovation and greater development of the market, which are significant steps in the right direction. However, as Liberal Democrats we are not prepared to see the dead hand of Government directing here. We continue to oppose mandation in whatever form it may take.”
“The Government should be ensuring that there are baskets of opportunities to invest in things that matter to our communities, whether regenerating our town centres or social rented housing. We know that people such as Legal & General lead the market in those investments; we need to think about how we can enhance those opportunities. We must also ensure that we are investing in net zero, which is close to the heart of several parties. Again, the Government should be shaping the market in that way rather than dictating. While the Minister alludes to this as a one-shot opportunity, other colleagues are fearful that mandation is the thin end of the wedge. Finally, I would like to reflect on the changes that the Minister has proposed.”
“Clearly, as Liberal Democrats, we welcome that as a step in the right direction, but the Government should be shaping the market appropriately through policy so that there is a pipeline of opportunities for investments—that goes across to the Mansion House accord—so that the market has those opportunities and can invest in them appropriately. There is an element that we need to touch on. Since 2008, there has been risk aversion in the market, which stifles profits; we need to be alive to that. Risk is a good thing when investing, but investments should be sensible and with appropriate spreads. The Bill does elements of that, but I fear that some of the monitoring could stifle risk and therefore stifle returns. The Liberal Democrats are keen to ensure opportunities.”
“The Liberal Democrats broadly support the proposals before us in the Bill as a whole. I know from conversations with residents in Torbay that there are some challenges within the pensions market, and the Bill as a whole addresses an awful lot of them. However, I suggest that the Minister has been studying his Greek history, assumed the position of Odysseus and developed a Trojan horse, which he has sneaked into the Bill. The Trojan horse is, of course, mandation. While the Minister may have cut off a couple of the Trojan horse’s legs, it remains a Trojan horse before us.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Hobhouse. The Liberal Democrats broadly welcome the draft regulations, but I wish to build on what the shadow Minister alluded to. The Minister talked about a one-year delay, but is she confident that it will be only one year? Does she believe that it may be pushed on further, hence the flexibility that has been built into the draft regulations? Some reflections from the Minister on that would be extremely welcome.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alec. Although my constituency is almost as far as it possible to get from Glasgow, I know that my constituents will enjoy the games. As the Exchequer Secretary said, they should be an inspiration to us all, especially young people, and a celebration of the Commonwealth and the way in which diversity makes it stronger. However, I come to the main beef. Are the regulations the sole beef in the burger of encouraging people to participate? What other financial inducements have the Government put on the table to ensure the success of the games?”
“During this Session of Parliament, we have seen the head of the Office for Budget Responsibility carry the can and resign due to an error by a member of his team. What will it take for this Prime Minister to carry the can?”
“I call on the Government to reflect on that and to take a small step in the right direction. We will vote against the Government motion to disagree to Lords amendment 78.”
“We fear that going ahead with mandation would be feckless, and dangerous for our pensioners. Another area, which I know my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones) will touch on later, is pension scandals. The Government missed an opportunity to address pension scandals as part of this behemoth of a Bill, but Lords amendment 78, which they are sadly opposing, applies to the AEA Technology pensioners. That is a small step in the right direction to address the injustice that these pensioners have suffered. I remind the House that the Public Accounts Committee drew on a report by the National Audit Office that highlighted that civil servants were poorly advised by the Government on transferring the scheme to the private sector. Many of the AEAT pensioners have significantly lost out financially.”
“We Liberal Democrats plan to vote against the Government amendments relating to Lords amendments 1 and 15 and specifically to mandation, because mandation is the dead hand of Government on growth, particularly when it comes to people’s pensions, and it goes against our free-economy approach. The Minister may be a reasonable individual—who knows?—but we have spent many hours on this, and the clock is ticking for the Government. In two or three years’ time, we may have a new Government, and we need only look at the other side of the Atlantic to see what democracy can throw up. We could be giving a future Government whose colour we do not know a challenging approach to mandation. Any reassurances that the Minister gives would not be worth the candle then.”
“With today’s greater safeguards, that might not have happened; there might not have been the mis-selling that he felt had taken place, or the poor advice that he received from advisers. In that regard, the Bill takes significant steps in the right direction. We Liberal Democrats, however, want to see our economy working well, and that means a lack of state interference, in the form of direction of investment. It is right that the state should encourage investors, suggest where they should go, and have appropriate schemes to guide them, but the idea of direction is anathema to us. We have repeatedly seen what is almost a nervous twitch, whether through the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Act 2025 or the introduction of facial ID on our streets, as the Government give more and more powers to Ministers, and that disturbs us.”
“For many people, a pension is their second largest investment, after their home, but we must bear in mind that many others can only dream of having a private pension, as they face the challenges of the cost of living crisis. We Liberal Democrats want to make sure that pensions work effectively for those who invest in them, and there is much to be welcomed in the Bill. I want to share a personal reflection with the House. My father, who was a lorry driver, feared poverty in his pensionable age, and saved massively because he had seen that poverty with his own father, but sadly he was perhaps not as financially literate as some other people. He kept his savings in shares; then the stock market crashed in 2008, and his savings for his pension were virtually wiped out.”
“With the Russian navy now escorting shadow fleet vessels down through the English channel, could a mitigation or a blocker for interdicting one of those vessels be a naval vessel with them? Was it an error of judgment by the Government to put them on notice that we were about to start those interdictions?”
“It is important to reflect that in the United Kingdom tourists face a VAT rate of 20% on their spend, whereas in Germany it is only 7% and in Spain, France and Italy it is 10%. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Labour Government need to reverse their job-killing national insurance contribution hikes, which have had a massive impact on our hospitality industry up and down the country, including in my constituency?”
“The national insurance hike has, sadly, had an impact on our economic growth and has led to uncertainty, speculation and delays to budgets. We desperately needed a firm hand on the tiller after the Tories, and it has not been there. I hope for the sake of the economy that we will see one soon. The Employment Rights Act 2025 is not a massive issue for companies like Toyota or Rolls-Royce, which have the capacity, but for SMEs and microbusinesses it is more of a challenge. I implore the Minister to reflect on that.”
“The lack of investment over many years has affected the whole country, including the east midlands. The challenges we face in the south-west of England, as a part of the country that feels left behind, are not dissimilar from those that the east midlands faces. I represent the most deprived constituency that has a Liberal Democrat MP. I would like to reflect on some of the positives. In my patch, we have an outstanding fishing industry, alongside the hospitality, electronics and photonics industries. That chimes with what colleagues have said about the manufacturing tour de force in the east midlands: whether it is Siemens, Rolls-Royce or Toyota, there are large companies powering the east midlands economy, and there are SMEs doing the same. With so many Labour MPs here, I am afraid to tread on toes, but I will anyway.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. I congratulate the hon. Member for Rushcliffe (James Naish) on his incredibly powerful speech and other colleagues from across the east midlands and nearby on the love they have shown for this part of the United Kingdom. We could almost say that we are under the moon of love—in fact, that reminds me that nobody has mentioned a great cultural export from Leicester: Showaddywaddy. I have fond memories of them from my childhood in the 1970s. It is important that we reflect on where we have come from economically and the challenges that we face. The Tories crashed the economy—colleagues have covered that well—and the fact that we are having to pay so much interest on debt holds back our economy. The Liz Truss crash put some of the challenges that we face on steroids.”
“Sadly, the investment that I had hoped to see in my hospital in Torbay has been kicked into the long grass. We still have hundreds of sewage leaks across the hospital, 85% of which is not fit for purpose. However, let me go back to discussing the east midlands, which is what we are really here to do. As I was saying, SMEs will be challenged the most. I implore the Minister to consider that, as the Employment Rights Act is rolled out. Even HR reps acknowledge that this is important. Introducing it at the same time as the national insurance hike has resulted, effectively, in a double hit to the economy.”
“Yes. Let me reflect on the three areas that we need to be driving in particular. The first is our green energy approach, which the Government have made significant steps on. I am disappointed that the previous Government had a policy that did not prioritise the new schemes. A number of zombie schemes were sticking in the system. We need only look at the shock to our economy.”
“My challenge to the Minister is, beyond the scheme announced by the Government yesterday, how are we looking at opportunities for working-class youngsters in particular to gain enrichment and experience, to get them to a better place? Finally, given how many progressive Labour Members are present, I am shocked that so far we have not talked about rejoining the customs union. I look forward to the Minister sharing a date for when she is planning to complete the negotiations to rejoin the customs union, which will grow our economy significantly.”
“I am delighted to welcome that, but we need to drive harder. We need only look at the massive impact on our economy of the incredibly foolish war that has been launched by Donald Trump. Uncoupling ourselves from the oil and gas industry will be a good way of protecting ourselves from such impacts in the future. The second area I will reflect on is our young people. The fact that 16.1% of young people are unemployed is a real challenge. In my constituency of Torbay, there is a description of a “bay mentality”. A barrister came to speak at the school of one of my sons. He talked about using one’s connections ruthlessly. In a working-class setting, that is not so easy. People do not have such connections.”
“The presenter challenged him by suggesting that the NIC hike had jacked up youth unemployment, and the Secretary of State appeared to agree with that. Finally, an article in The Times suggested that the Government are thinking about making young people second-class citizens through their changes to disability benefits; I would welcome comments from the Secretary of State about that.”
“They help young people who have come through the pandemic, those who feel as though they are in a pressure cooker because of social media, which is gnawing away at their life, and who face a cost of living crisis. The Liberal Democrats are concerned about an element of the Government’s policy: we do not understand why the Government are removing funding for apprenticeships for management. Surely managers are the people who support young people in their hour of need, as they go into work. Young people aspire to move into those positions eventually, so will the Secretary of State think again about the impact of the national insurance contributions hike on hospitality, retail and tourism industries in areas like Torbay? I was interested to hear the Secretary of State speaking on the “Today” programme on Monday.”
“The Secretary of State is correct to suggest that the Government inherited a crisis around youth unemployment. However, by introducing the hikes in national insurance contributions, the Government made that crisis into a catastrophe for young people, and supercharged the pressure on our youth across the United Kingdom. Rather than tackling what is now the root of the problem—the NIC hikes—these proposals are just papering over the cracks. Young people’s childhoods are massively different from those that many of us experienced, especially hon. Members who grew up some years ago, so I pay tribute to the organisations that get young people to the right place, including Eat That Frog, Doorstep Arts, Sound Communities and South Devon college, who do incredible work.”
“GPs truly are the frontline of our NHS. I recently had the pleasure of meeting representatives from the Chilcote practice in Torquay. They shared with me their concerns about the global sum payment. Their calculations suggest that it should be a little in excess of £200, yet the recently announced payment is £128 a year. Will the Minister please advise on how he plans to bridge that gap?”
“I thank the more than 6,000 residents who signed a petition against mandatory digital ID. The scheme that has been outlined will inevitably save the Government billions of pounds, so will they commit to investing that money in bobbies on the beat to tackle antisocial behaviour in town centres such as Torquay and Paignton?”
“Politics is all about choices. Last week, the Chancellor stood at the Dispatch Box with a choice: she could have chosen to reverse the jobs tax that is costing thousands of jobs for young people up and down the United Kingdom. Why she did she not make that choice?”
“Last week, Citizens Advice shared a report into Access to Work which confirmed many things that we know from our own postbags relating to disturbing delays in the system on both processing applications and reimbursement. Will the Minister share with us what recovery plan he has in place and when the Government will get up to a 28-day turnaround for these important issues?”
“I am sure the Minister agrees that is not the aspiration we should have for our communities. In the south-west we have seen a lack of capital investment, whether in our railways or NHS infrastructure. I hope the Minister will tell us how the Government are planning to invest in the NHS in the south-west and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington asked, what innovation there is to bring forward that investment. Sadly, Torbay has been kicked into the long grass until the mid-2030s. The staff are our most important asset, and they deserve that investment much sooner.”
“We have also seen a toxic change to the spending power of this capital programme. We have seen Brexit, we have seen the pandemic, which has impacted on the spending power of capital programmes, and we have seen the war in Ukraine, which has seen building prices spiral. Some of the management in the hospital field say that, since the pandemic, the spending power of capital programmes has halved, so can the Minister tell us how the Government have taken account of the fact that money is going only half as far as it did historically? In conclusion, Torbay is one of the most deprived communities in the country and the NHS often picks up the rough end of that. Only recently, a director told me she has patients who believe that living to their 60s is a good span of life.”
“There are millions of pounds-worth of investment in the emergency department, for example, which is really welcome. The daytime operations area, where people come in for a short period in the hospital, is calm and businesslike, which is what we want during hospital visits, but that is very different from other parts of the hospital, particularly for those people who suffer from cancer, for whom the offer is chaotic and situated all over the estate. Cancer sufferers deserve a better experience. We have seen investment in the endoscopy unit, and 90% of patients are being seen within five weeks, which is a massive improvement. However, looking at the estate of Torbay hospital as a whole, 85% of it is not up to standard. The £350 million investment supports only half of the hospital.”
“However, approaching the hospital, someone might think that the seventh cavalry was coming over the horizon—the tower block is wrapped in scaffolding, so it must be being sorted. However, the reality is that the £1 million scaffolding is there purely to stop bits of the building falling off and braining staff and members of the public as they go past. Having to spend so much of our NHS money just maintaining a crumbling building is not good. The Torbay and South Devon NHS foundation trust has some bids in with the Minister around the challenges in the tower block; I am sure she is considering those at the moment and I hope she will look upon them kindly. I also want to reflect on what works well in Torbay hospital. I recently visited and saw some really exciting changes.”
“The vandalism—the fact that they chose not to invest—made it much harder to invest in the longer term and actually made it more costly. It is that old proverb: a stitch in time saves nine. In Torbay we face some massive challenges. We have seen more than 700 sewage leaks at our hospital. These sewage leaks do not just happen in the corridors; they happen in clinical areas and affect wards where patients are. There have to be deep cleans, and there are delays for patients in getting on to lists and, most importantly, delays in supporting people who need medical interventions. We heard from my colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington, that delays are occurring because of poor ventilation, and we have heard about the impacts—indeed, there have been very significant impacts in Torbay hospital.”
“What a pleasure it is to serve under you as chairman, Mr Western. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) on securing this important debate. Sorting out Torbay hospital, the hospital that serves my constituency as well as the constituents of my hon. Friends the Members for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) and for Newton Abbot (Martin Wrigley), is my No. 1 priority as the Member of Parliament for Torbay. I knew that the hospital was in a difficult place prior to my election, but as I began to immerse myself in the challenges facing it, I was shocked. I was shocked by what was effectively wanton vandalism—corporate vandalism, even—undertaken by the previous Conservative Government by making promises that they just could not keep.”
“As a former caseworker, I can reflect on how it can impact you as an individual. I used to play ABBA after hearing about particularly traumatic events on the phone with constituents of the MP I used to work for. We need culture change, and to make sure that those who undertake this service to the public, whether it is Capita or other providers, use a trauma-informed approach. Have you seen such a culture change within these organisations? I hope the Minister will reflect on that in his remarks later.”
“For Torbay council, on which I still serve, incredible assumptions are being made about the levels of council tax being collected. That results in a deficit of £13 million in years 2 and 3 for a small unitary authority. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Labour party has been learning from the Conservatives, and is planning to balance the books of councils on the backs of local tax payers?”
“If people in Torbay check the Surfers Against Sewage app today as I did, they will see that eight sites are monitored where there could be overflows of sewage. Six overflows have occurred so far this year at six of those sites, with two ongoing. We have also suffered a cryptosporidium outbreak in the past 18 months. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to stop tinkering with the system and have systemic reform to tackle such challenges?”
“Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth was right to mention the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, because its report, published last week, shows that poverty has flatlined since 2005, and if we look at deprivation and deep poverty, we see that the situation is really disturbing. I hear from church leaders in Torbay that they are seeing much higher levels of destitution than they have done historically, which is shocking. It is disappointing that the Government have not driven hard to make the positive reforms to the welfare state that would tackle the deep poverty suffered by many in our communities. The Government should ensure that we reform the welfare state, with those who use it, so that they can live their best life.”
“At the time when this benefit was a hot potato, some Ministers described it as pocket money for people with disabilities. However, it is there to support people with basic living needs, whether it is being able to get out and about and live a normal life, which many people would take for granted, preparing food or the simple dignity of being clean, able to wash and having help with that. This benefit supports those people, so it is disturbing that last July, the Minister had to almost rip up the speech in front of him and go in to bat with a rubber chicken in his hand, effectively. We welcome the upgrade to these benefits, but does it truly reflect the increase in earnings that we have seen, and give people on the personal independence payment the ability to take people on to support them? The hon.”
“The Sayce review investigated overpayments to carers, and people needed to earn only £1 or so over the limit in a week for them to lose thousands of pounds from their carer’s allowance and end up having a liability. Last February, the Sayce review found that nearly 87,000 people had that liability from the overpayment of carer’s allowance. The Government have committed to writing off the debts of 26,000, which means that debts remain outstanding for 61,000. That causes grave concerns for lots of people who have that hanging over them like the sword of Damocles. I would be really grateful if the Minister could reflect on that area in his winding-up speech. Finally, the last benefit that I will reflect on is what was originally known as DLA but is now known as PIP.”
“Sadly, improvements at Torbay hospital have been delayed by many years. Again, as the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth alluded to, this is about ensuring that we sort out our national health service across the country as a whole so that people are in a fit state to work. Another thing that causes Liberal Democrats concern is the way in which social care has been kicked down the line and is not being resolved sooner rather than later. Let me move on to a key element of these proposals. I welcome more generally the uprating that we have heard about from the Minister today, but what about carer’s allowance? The fact is that unpaid carers in the United Kingdom undertake work equivalent to the value of the whole of our NHS, which is absolutely mind-blowing.”
“It has been interesting to hear from people, particularly those who have given us evidence in recent weeks, on how workers—particularly manual workers—find it harder to continue to do the jobs that they are in as they get older, as well as how we need to ensure that there is a whole-system approach. We need to ensure that employers are more flexible, and the Mayfield report is important in that. Rather than just shuffling people off the books, we need to ensure that employers see what reasonable adaptations they can make to keep them on the books, as our continental friends do. We need to drive forward with work on pensioner poverty. I reflect on my own constituency, where I have had people heading towards their pension who still want to work but are unable to because they have a dodgy hip and are awaiting an operation.”
“It is really heartening that when the Liberal Democrats were back in government as part of the coalition, we were part of the Government who introduced the triple lock. We have seen pensioner poverty being driven down, but there is still too much of it. I am concerned that the current Conservative leader, the right hon. Member for North West Essex (Mrs Badenoch), has mused about means-testing the triple lock, which is disturbing. Would she put it back to the five shillings a week for those of good character that we had under Asquith? We will look for the white smoke to appear from the Conservative party on that. Let me reflect on pensioner poverty. As the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth reflected, we have done a lot of work as part of the Work and Pensions Committee around this issue.”
“It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams). It is almost as if she has been cribbing off my speech—maybe it is because we are both on the Work and Pensions Committee. The reality is that our welfare state is part of a society that should be at ease with itself. Let me reflect that the old age pension was first introduced by Asquith in 1908 for 70-year-olds. That demonstrates that the Liberals were there at the foundation of our welfare state. If we fast-forward a few decades, we find that Margaret Thatcher broke the link between earnings and pensions, which had a devastating effect on pensioner poverty and increased it significantly over many years.”
“54 (Consideration of Estimates) shall apply for the remainder of this Session as if, for the word ‘Three’ in line 1, there were substituted the word ‘Four’.— (Gen Kitchen.)”
“What I hear from them is their uncertainty about the Employment Rights Act 2025. I call on the Minister and the Government to ensure that, as it is rolled out, they reflect on limiting its impact. They must ensure a soft introduction, so it does not have a further devastating impact on employment. Most of all, I reflect on the impact of the national insurance hike. I ask the Minister to reflect on that, too. Question put and agreed to . Social Security Resolved, That the draft Social Security (Contributions) (Rates, Limits and Thresholds Amendments, National Insurance Funds Payments and Extension of Veteran’s Relief) Regulations 2026, which were laid before this House on 12 January, be approved.— (Dan Tomlinson.) Standing Orders (Consideration of Estimates) Ordered, That Standing Order No.”