Steve Darling
MP for Torbay · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Many people may be planning to visit the English riviera this summer, and when they do they may venture on to our coasts. I hope that the Minister will ensure that common sense prevails in appropriately recompensing our coastguards, who put themselves in danger’s way to support people in tragic circumstances.”
“Together with the Heart Campaign in Torbay, I am campaigning hard to protect those services and get investment. Like others, I believe that there is a lack of acknowledgment of our frail elderly population in Devon, where the finances are not following that particular challenge.”
“It is poignant that we are having the Sir David Amess debate today, particularly in the light of the shocking murder of Ann Widdecombe only a week ago. Ann was a Devon resident, and although I may not have seen eye to eye with her politically, she definitely brought authenticity into politics in spades.”
“This could be worse for Torbay unitary authority. However, it is a catastrophic carve-up for Devon, led by Exeter and Plymouth—both Labour councils—and driven forward by a Labour Minister, which will result in a rural rump in Devon. Can the Minister please advise us on his belief as to the financial viability of this rural rump of Devon?”
“Torbay hospital is the third oldest estate that celebrates being part of the NHS. In heatwave conditions, the tower block is like an oven and that has a massive impact on patients, staff and even equipment.”
“Torbay council is the most deprived local authority in the south-west of England. I would welcome the Minister’s assurances that rearranging the deckchairs with this local reorganisation will not detract from regeneration, which is a core driver for that local authority. The new Prime Minister is set to move No.”
The complete record
Every one of 600 lines we hold for Steve Darling, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 3 of 12.
“From my conversations with businesses across Torbay and the west of England, whether Paignton Zoo or Splashdown Waterpark, I know that limiting the threshold at which national insurance contributions are paid to £5,000 is crippling lots of seasonal businesses. The seasonality of the work means that they have to trim the opportunities for youngsters to take on summer jobs. I spoke to the owner of Splashdown only a couple of weeks ago. She talks about the people who come back in later years who are now solicitors, airline pilots or doctors, and how they learnt the trade of getting into work on time by working in the waterpark and so on. I also want to reflect on how the national insurance hikes are hitting the hospitality industry across the west of England. Businesses have already seen massive increases in the cost of fuel.”
“I welcome the proposals on child benefit and guardian’s allowance. When I visit schools in Torbay, it is disturbing to hear how many children are only too alive to the cost of living crisis. They are worried about mum or dad not having enough money to put petrol in the car, and they are concerned about covering the bills. These are not big amounts of money, but we know that it all adds up and that it is helpful to the youngsters in our communities. However, the continuation of the national insurance hikes is the most significant mis-step the Government have undertaken in this Parliament. They are effectively shooting the goose that lays the golden egg of economic growth.”
“It is jaw-dropping how many rich and powerful people were within Epstein’s orbit, and how many of them believed that they were untouchable. It is important that we have a culture that is supportive and trusting around whistleblowers, so does the Minister agree that we need to have an office for whistleblowers as the backbone of such a positive culture?”
“There is clear evidence up and down the country of Serco failing to serve the Courts Service appropriately, including for my constituents in Torbay. Does the Secretary of State accept that if we can make sure that Serco can get people to the courts more rapidly, it will give them better access to justice and allow them to access jury trials?”
“In Torquay, in Barton Hill academy, what I found really disturbing was how the nine and 10-year-olds were talking about the cost of living crisis. They were worried about mum, who could not quite afford to put enough petrol in the car, and utility bills were worrying their parents. They told me they were not doing so many of the nice things they used to do a couple of years ago, because mum and dad said they could not afford it any more.”
“When I visited a school in Paignton, the headteacher told me how children turn up cold, tired and hungry. It has to provide warm clothes for the youngsters, because parents cannot afford them. It has to provide food for the youngsters. The headteacher was taking on the incredible altruism of being a foster carer, so that if a child did need support, she would have the qualifications to step in and support the family in need. Jennie and I love going to schools, Jennie in particular—the kids enjoy Jennie more than me, I am sure. Having a chat with youngsters about what they like and do not like about living in their town is a special thing to do, whether as a councillor or a Member of Parliament. Usually, one hears about litter, the environment, graffiti, older kids swearing and so on.”
“It is judging because, as we have heard, a parent may find themselves in a position beyond their control—when a family member or the other parent is suddenly taken ill or, even worse, dies—and they are left alone to provide for their youngsters in really difficult circumstances. Equally, why should we decide as a society that, because they are the third or fourth child, we value them less? Such a belief seems morally bankrupt. It is so important that we value our children because they are our future. It is also very sad that seven Labour Members had the Whip suspended for doing the right thing and backing the end of the two-child limit. I want to reflect a little more on what this means in Torbay. I represent one of the most deprived constituencies in the south-west of England.”
“The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a society that is free, open and fair, and a society in which no one is enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. That is why it is in our DNA to be against the two-child limit. There are 4.5 million children living in poverty in the UK. As somebody with a passion for the future of our children—looked-after children, adopted children and so forth—I know they are the responsibility of us all, and we should have a passion for supporting our youngsters, because children are 20% of our population, but 100% of our future. We must reflect on the fact that this Dickensian policy of judging families was brought in by the Conservatives.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her non-partisan intervention. The Liberal Democrats opposed the two-child limit. We are on the record as doing that and I am delighted we did so. A Joseph Rowntree Foundation report published last week highlights how tackling poverty has flatlined since 2005, so the Liberal Democrats welcome this step forward in ending the two-child limit. This measure is not just about children; it is about the future of our country and investing in people and believing in them. The Secretary of State alluded to the fact that youngsters have worse education outcomes, higher levels of mental health challenges later in life, and are unable to contribute to society as strongly as they could. The taxman takes less from them later in life, because their jobs are not so profitable.”
“As Liberal Democrats, we believe the best days of our country are ahead of us. By lifting the two-child limit, we include more people in a brighter future.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his thoughts on that. I remind my colleague that shortly after the coalition Government, the Conservatives stripped away an awful lot of the safeguards around student loans, and that continues. It is not a happy situation for many students up and down the country that the Tories robbed them of those safeguards. On a visit to Torbay hospital, I spoke to one of its senior directors. She sees her role as extremely important, because it is not just about treating people but tackling deprivation in Torbay. She comes across some patients who believe that a lifespan of up to around 60-something is adequate. That reflects the levels of deprivation in my community, which this measure will help to tackle. It will lift 2,000 children out of poverty in Torbay. We should have high ambitions for our country.”
“The Minister mentioned the Baltic states. On Monday, 26 January, the Government published a strategy, in which 14 Baltic and North sea states are involved, to tackle the Russian shadow fleet. Would he reflect on the fact that that is an excellent lever to put pressure on the economy of Russia, so that Russia is less likely to make demands, and end the war? Equally, will he advise us what teeth the new strategy to tackle the shadow fleet will have?”
“Storms Ingrid and Chandra have wreaked havoc across Devon, whether it is flooding in Ottery Saint Mary, closure of the Dawlish rail line or having parts of our harbours and seafronts in Torbay ripped apart. Torbay council advised me that these storms have caused more than £3.5 million of critical infrastructure damage. Will the Leader of the House encourage the Minister for Local Government and Homelessness to open up the Bellwin scheme to local authorities, like ours in Torbay?”
“They will feel utterly betrayed, because false hope was given to them in the autumn. That hope has been dashed. I thank the more than 100 MPs from across the United Kingdom who supported the letter I co-ordinated calling for justice for WASPI women, but sadly it fell on stony ground. What engagement did the Secretary of State have with the ombudsman before coming to his final conclusions, and will he please explain further why he has chosen to ignore the ombudsman’s recommendation to give justice to WASPI women and pay compensation?”
“I met the Secretary of State a few weeks ago, and we reflected on his being a fan of Celtic and Bruce Springsteen, but I was not aware that he is also a member of the Magic Circle. He is clearly trying to set up a number of illusions by saying that this is to do with particular issues and comments, but it is actually about whether these women were communicated with adequately. I reflect on what other colleagues have said, and it is about injustice. Being elected as an MP—though, as a Liberal Democrat, I was somewhat disappointed not to be a member of the Government—is about seeking out and tackling injustice, yet the Secretary of State is putting this in the “too hard to do” file. The more than 3.6 million WASPI women across the UK will feel this as if it were a punch in the stomach.”
“In Torbay, we have an incredible organisation called Sound Communities. Some young people are not in the position to take up an apprenticeship because, having suffered significant trauma in their lives, they need to build up their confidence. Sound Communities helps these youngsters get themselves in the right position to take up their place in this world. Does my hon. Friend agree that what we need is long-term funding to support these youngsters, so that they can have the opportunities and futures that they deserve?”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Torbay unitary authority is the most deprived local authority in the south-west of England, and also the most deprived local authority that has the joy of having a Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament. However, we are also a member of the f40 group. In 2023, we signed up to a safety valve agreement which effectively snatches SEND placements from children in our systems. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to see the SEND White Paper rolled out there fast? Childhood is a very short period in one’s life, and children do not have the time to wait.”
“This is a baby step in the right direction, but the hospitality, tourism and retail industry in Torbay continues to trade in a hostile environment. One leisure provider in Paignton shared with me that they have a £44,000 gas bill. Will the Minister share what the Government are doing to tackle these high energy prices that many suffer from?”
“Prior to the Government’s decision not to grant compensation to WASPI women, there was a disturbing lack of engagement with the ombudsman. Since then, the ombudsman has been able to gain access to the paused action plan, but only after leaving their electronic device at the door. Is the Minister comfortable with the way that this trusted civil servant has been treated?”
“The Sayce review investigated the carers’ allowance scandal and identified that almost 87,000 carers were affected. The Government are planning to write off the debts of 26,000 carers, but does that mean that the Minister believes that 60,000 carers are guilty of fraud?”
“The basic command unit that includes Torbay does not have services such as firearms officers or roads officers. Will the Home Secretary give clear guidance that all basic command units should include such disciplines?”
“My colleague is making some very good points about where Governments are misjudging these matters. Charter fishermen in Torbay are extremely worried that the three-bag limit on pollack could devastate their industry. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Government need to monitor this extremely closely to see whether it does have this massive impact on the industry?”
“The Minister will recall our many happy hours together in Committee on the Pension Schemes Bill. One of the issues that the Liberal Democrats raised was the need for an MOT for people as they approach pension age, to see how their pension is going and test its adequacy. Does the Minister accept that putting these stark restrictions in place will significantly restrict the ability of somebody who realises that they are running out of time to make additional contributions to their pension to get to a better place? Would he consider extra flexibility, so that people could perhaps use 10-year allowances in three years?”
“The hon. Member is making very good points. My guide dog Jennie is not bothered by fireworks—she seems to enjoy them—but Pepsi, my wife’s guide dog, is terrified of them. That is not only awful for the dog, but it means that at firework time, my wife cannot go out and socialise or conduct her business as a local councillor in Torbay. Would the hon. Member reflect on the idea of firework-free zones? I also have the pleasure of having Paignton zoo in my constituency, and the impact on zoos is massive.”
“Trump and Putin both respect strength; neither of them respects international law. In the light of that, I welcome the work undertaken by the Prime Minister and leaders from Canada and Europe on the coalition of the willing. The Secretary of State has outlined what we are doing to strengthen our capabilities and those of our neighbours, but can she explain how the coalition of the willing will become the coalition of the capable to make us stronger?”
“David from Rock Garden in Torquay told me that his utility bill has risen to £3,000 a month, which dwarfs his rental costs. Ofgem is asleep at the wheel; it must back local businesses and drive the changes that we need. Our hospitality industry is horrified by the proposals for business rates. The Government must apply the full 20% rate of relief to ensure that there are protections. I am afraid to say that many people in the hospitality industry scoff at proposals that simply deregulate around the edges, because if they do not have paying customers in their premises, they are set up to fail.”
“I will focus on Liberal Democrat new clause 9, which would require an assessment of the cumulative impact of the proposals on the hospitality industry. One must bear in mind that, after a medley of challenges, our hospitality industry fears the future—it is in crisis mode—so it is not prepared to invest or take a chance by improving its offer, and it is hunkering down and hoping for the best. I reflect on the international pandemic, which had a massive impact; Torbay’s tourism and hospitality industry has still not recovered to pre-pandemic levels. The outrageous second invasion of Ukraine almost four years ago caused a shock in our energy costs. I am afraid that there have also been self-inflicted wounds, such as the national insurance hike and the ensuing employment challenges.”
“I feel we need to have a national debate about whether we have got the balance right and how we can ensure that we are driving greater footfall towards our hospitality industry.”
“My hon. Friend is spot on. We need the Government to wake up, smell the coffee and recognise the challenges that our hospitality industry faces. Some national chains, such as Wetherspoons, use their buying power to drive down the cost of a pint—many customers reflect on prices when they cross the threshold of a venue. The reality for lots of independents—because it is independents that are really important—is that £6 a pint is the minimum they can achieve with all the costs that are involved. When we compare that with the cost in a supermarket, it is really scary. The Minister rightly highlighted the difference we see today, with more than 70% of the alcohol consumed having been purchased at a supermarket.”
“What I found extremely scary when talking with a number of these people this weekend was that they were saying, “Why are we doing this? We could be managers of a local supermarket and sleep at night.” I hope the Minister will listen to these pleas and ensure that the Government do this cumulative impact assessment.”
“I do not know those venues, but I suspect some of them may well be on the high street. We, as Liberal Democrats, know that our constituents see our high streets as the beating heart of our communities. By backing our hospitality industry, we are backing our high streets. Anthony from Otto in Torquay shared with me how independents are powered by families; they put people first. The reality is that an independent is not going to get a regional chippy in to do some work for him. He is going to take on the chippy who he plays football with on a Sunday morning. He has some skin in the game; he might know that chippy’s kids, because they go to the local sixth form with his kids. As independents, they have a level of skin in the game. That is why we need to ensure that we set up an economy that supports independents.”
“Can the Minister explain why there are £300 million-worth of cuts in Devon this year to our NHS—to hospital trusts, our partnership trust that looks after mental health and our integrated care board?”
“The issue that we face in Torbay is a significant shrinkage in the number of available commercial routes, whether for bus pass users or other bus users. Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that we need sustained investment in bus services to drive a better service for all our communities?”
“With Donald Trump taking a leaf out of the Putin playbook and becoming an international gangster in the Americas, what assurance can the Secretary of State give the Chamber that the coalition of the willing to protect Ukraine will become the coalition of the capable to defend Ukraine?”
“The news about the reinstatement of the Erasmus scheme is brilliant for our young people. I have heard from language schools in Torbay, particularly International House Torquay, who have taken advantage of the group travel scheme for German students to be able to use just their ID cards to study languages in England. What opportunities does the right hon. Gentleman see of rolling out a similar scheme for Swiss, Italian and Spanish students?”
“I am sure that the Minister will join me in congratulating Anna Coles, the director of adult and community services at Torbay council, and her team on achieving a “good” rating from the Care Quality Commission this week. The fly in the ointment is that despite Torbay being the most deprived local authority in south-west England, this settlement means that it is set to lose out on adult social care because of the higher than average number of people who are old. Will the Minister explain that?”
“As Liberal Democrats, we really want to see a jump-start for our economy, and we have clear proposals—I will not go over them again for fear of getting in Madam Deputy Speaker’s bad books—for the way forward. We do not want to see our economy go into reverse gear, so we call on the Government to reflect again on these proposals.”
“I ask the Government to reflect on the impacts that these measures will have. The Federation of Small Businesses suggests that a number of small businesses use this mechanism as a way of enhancing their offer to employees in order to retain them. There is a suggestion that there will be higher national insurance costs for some of its members if and when the allowance is withdrawn. One has to reflect on what businesses have had to suffer. The Ukraine war has led to higher energy bills, the national insurance hike that kicked in in April has put a cold hand around the heart of our businesses and, of course, business rates are set to go up significantly over the next few years. Our economy is in a parlous state.”
“What we see here is the tune remaining the same from the Budget, but perhaps the words changing a little. We see short-term gain for the taxman and long-term pain for the taxpayer, and particularly for those who wish to save for their pensions. The Minister was right to highlight how we need to be driving more people to save for their pensions: in fact, we see about 12 million people falling short. Scottish Widows shared a report in the not-too-distant past showing that up to 40% of people are set not to have a comfortable retirement, and the figures have been going in reverse in the last couple of years. The Association of British Insurers highlighted that 40% of people would be less likely to invest in their pensions if these measures were taken forward, so there is a double whammy on those wishing to save.”
“In the west country, we have seen an icy chilling effect from the NICs hike on our hospitality and tourism industry, particularly in Torbay. The Torbay Coast & Countryside Trust, which looks after some of our beautiful natural spaces, has faced a £100,000 cost from the NICs hike, which has forced it to close its doors and take a step into the dark. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to explore the impact of the NICs hike on this fragile sector of our economy to see how they can step in to support it?”
“For me, one of the nubs is that, when I go out and knock on doors in Torbay, I am always shocked at how many older folk in my deprived constituency do not have access to a smartphone or even a computer. This is digital exclusion on another scale, as we saw when the Conservatives excluded people for not having appropriate photo ID to vote. I strongly encourage the Minister to think again and reflect.”
“As someone whose constituency has had reports of Russian spies infiltrating through our harbour, one might think that I would be very much in favour of digital ID. However, it will clearly do nothing about the Russian threat, the small boats crossing the water or fraud in the workplace. I thank the more than 6,000 residents in Torbay who signed the petition: we are in the top 10 of those who object to mandatory digital ID. I hope the Minister will see this massive petition as a red card to these proposals, which did not appear in the Labour party’s manifesto. The cost of the policy is massive: £1.8 billion, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility. Previously, when Tony Blair tried to trot this out, it was £4.6 billion—money that we can ill afford.”
“My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. I will conclude by saying that there are malevolent powers in power across the Atlantic, and many of us are shocked at what we are seeing emanating from the Oval Office. Let us not give a future Government powers that could be ill used.”
“The Liberal Democrats welcome the fact that the Government have accepted the findings of the Sayce review into carer’s allowance overpayments, but what assurances can the Minister give that the Government will stop hounding carers about overpayments? Will the Government also apologise?”
“Disability News Service has stated that both the Treasury and the DWP have refused to clarify the £1.9 billion of cuts to disability benefits set to take place over the next five years that were quietly sneaked into the Budget the other week. Will the Minister now set the record straight and advise us on how those cuts, which amount to almost £2 billion, will occur and on what impacts they will have on people with disabilities?”
“For people who are lucky in the lottery of life, their pension can be one of their biggest assets, but, sadly, we know that 12 million people across the United Kingdom are not saving enough. That is around the population of Belgium. Talking more broadly, there is much about the legislation to be welcomed. I am sure the Minister had his best birthday ever by spending it in the Bill Committee. I am sure that as a 14-year-old, he dreamed of that day, on Committee corridor—sadly I am not joking.”
“Nobody would expect a lorry driver to understand the full ins and outs of investing in the appropriate manner. It is important to reflect the fact that people live their lives without really understanding financial markets, and further strengthening that part of the Bill would be welcome.”
“Thank you for the audio description! There is much to be welcomed in the Bill, and the way that we rattled through it in Committee demonstrated that there is lots of good within it. However, as a constructive Opposition and a critical friend, I will spend most of my time reflecting on where there could be improvement. We Liberal Democrats still feel that there are chances to ensure a mid-life MOT on investment opportunities, including five years before retirement. We think that that could be strengthened significantly. I come from an area of sadness in respect of my father, who saw the poverty of his father, a lorry driver, and threw significant amounts of his income into his personal pension just before the 1998 stock market crash. He saw the value of his investment halved.”
“As colleagues have alluded to, mandation feels a bit like the cold hand of Big Brother on the economy. I trust the Minister implicitly in respect of mandation, when he says, “Honestly, guv, it’s not really something I want to do,” but who knows who will walk in his footsteps? We need only look to the other side of the Atlantic, and at the gentleman in the Oval Office, to see the extraordinary things happening there.”
“Colleagues have also highlighted new clause 22 and pensioners who worked at American Express, Esso and Hewlett Packard. Those companies—strangely enough, it seems to be overseas companies—have left pensioners out in the cold. I hope that that consultation is able to pick up on that and give clear guidance to trustees on how they ought to support those members. Surplus funds is another area that the Bill addresses. It is about getting the balance right. In winding up, will the Minister reflect on how surplus funds could support members and oil the wheels of the economy? That is important. Pensions should be about driving the economy. They are a big beast that should be an engine for change. In fact, the last area that I will touch on is how pensions should be the engine for change.”