Pat Sheehan
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that the Minister's School Uniforms (Guidelines and Allowances) Bill was poor legislation and a missed opportunity?”
“The last point that you made reminded me of one of the witnesses — a young girl — who came to the Committee. During the winter, she wore her own overcoat, but she had to take it off 100 yards from the school gate because she was not allowed to wear it into the school.”
“Agus iad ag ullmhú le haghaidh scrúduithe GCSE agus ard-leibhéil, féadann an imní agus an éiginnteacht sin drochthionchar a imirt ar a n-oideachas agus ar a bhfolláine.”
“Is scannalach go deo an foréigean ciníoch a chonaic muid le seachtain anuas. Tá ionsaithe ar theaghlaigh, ar thithe agus ar ghnólachtaí doleithscéil, agus tá siad dochosanta. Níor cheart eagla a mbáis a bheith ar dhaoine neamhurchóideacha mar gheall ar a gcine, a gcúlra ná a gcreideamh.”
“One of the reasons, Daniel, is that, if we were to have blocked the Bill at the Executive, the SDLP would be saying tomorrow morning "This place is dysfunctional. You're blocking legislation. Sinn Féin is blocking legislation, and the DUP is blocking legislation". No, we are not blocking legislation.”
“I have not once today argued against inspections. Not once. The Bill is about one thing and one thing only: intimidating and punishing teachers.”
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“They were being directed to Castlewellan, while others were being directed to Derry and others to Enniskillen. Of course, you might say, "Testing is the responsibility of the Health Department and the PHA. Why blame the Education Department?". As have a couple of Members who spoke, I have serious issues with the PHA, and I locked horns with its representatives on a number of occasions when I was on the Health Committee. I am not here today to focus on the PHA's inadequacies — that is for others to deal with — but it emerged yesterday at the Education Committee that there had been no discussions whatsoever between the Education Department and the PHA in the run-up to the restart of schools. Why did the Education Department not make sure that there was sufficient testing capacity to deal with any upsurge in numbers?”
“First, there is the issue of contact tracing. As has been mentioned, unlike in other jurisdictions, the responsibility for contact tracing here falls to school leaders. In other jurisdictions, the equivalent of the PHA carries it out. I have lost count of the number of school principals who have said that they have spent their weekends and evenings involved in contact tracing. That is not their job. They are being taken away from their core duty and responsibility of educating and safeguarding children. <BR /> <BR />There have been problems with getting tests for children who have come into close contact with a positive case. I spoke to one principal in my constituency — in the Falls, which is a deprived area — who was trying to get tests for a number of children who were close contacts of someone.”
“I agree with all of that. I want to go on to the issues that have arisen and been raised since schools have reopened, I presume, with all of us by teachers, school leaders, trade union representatives, parents or whoever.”
“Not just yet. I will let you in when I get through a bit more of this. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that the Minister has heard the anger, frustration and demoralisation among school leaders and the sheer disappointment at her approach and the approach of her Department. <BR /> <BR />I will let Justin in at that point.”
“What was done was confusing and woefully inadequate, and that was despite the warnings from experts over the last few weeks, if not months, that the return of children to school would lead to an increase in already high numbers of positive COVID-19 cases in society. Proactive interventions were required from the Minister; instead, she took a completely hands-off approach and placed the burden of responsibility for dealing with coronavirus in schools on the shoulders of our school leaders. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that the Minister, like the rest of us, has heard school leaders, union representatives and parents in the media over the past week or two. I will say this to the DUP reps who have spoken today: there is almost an implication in what you say that school leaders are overstating their concerns about what is happening in our schools.”
“Let me get into this for a few minutes, and then I will let you in, Justin. <BR /> <BR />Everyone here agrees that the best place for our children is in school. Everyone agrees with that. Our teachers and principals should be able to educate those children with as little disruption as possible. Classroom assistants, lunch supervisors, cooks, playground supervisors, bus drivers, caretakers and all those who provide support in our schools should be able to do their jobs in an environment that is as safe as it can be. Parents need to feel confident that their children are safe in school and that their education will be disrupted only if it is absolutely necessary. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, there appears to have been little planning to ensure the safe restart of schools.”
“Thanks for that intervention. <BR /> <BR />I will start on one point of agreement.”
“I had no desire to propose the motion and, in the process, trigger the recall of the Assembly. The motion is not a personal attack on the Education Minister, and nor is it an attack on her because she is a member of the DUP. I tabled the motion because of the sheer number of school leaders, teachers and union reps who had contacted me about the situation in our schools, asking me to do something. I therefore thought it was important to bring the Minister to the Chamber and for us as MLAs to hold her to account.”
“Thanks for giving way. That is where the Member is mistaken. The parents or the children do not select the schools; the schools select the children on the basis that they are the cream of the crop. That is what academic selection is about.”
“cannot be used as a reason for a school not to be integrated, but we do not know what other reasons can be used. Those are important issues that we need to tease out. <BR /> <BR />I support the Bill going through its Second Stage, but it needs significant changes to make it fit for purpose. We agree that it should go through Second Stage so that essential improvements can be made to ensure that it is fit for purpose and that it does not disadvantage any section of our education system.”
“What impact does that have on other sectors? Does that disadvantage them in some way? I am not sure that that would be good for other sectors and therefore good for our education system in general. There is also the presumption that any new school must be an integrated school except in special circumstances where it need not be. We do not have a definition of "special circumstances". We need to tease that out. The Bill says:”
“The evidence against academic selection is absolutely overwhelming. No other area of public policy has as much evidence stacked against it. I know that the Member is a great advocate of academic selection, but his position goes against all the evidence from the OECD, the Children's Commissioner, the Equality Commission, the Catholic hierarchy and so on. That is to name but a few, and you will know that the list is long, Mervyn. I say again that the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. Whatever type of education system we have, we will have difficulties until we sort out that issue. <BR /> <BR />The Integrated Education Bill requires significant changes. A lot of its language is positive, but other parts require clarification and need to be teased out. For example, the term "promotion" is included with regard to integrated education.”
“I appreciate and understand what the proposer said about the integrated sector being oversubscribed. That is also the case with the Irish-medium sector. Coláiste Feirste, which is the biggest post-primary Irish-medium school in Ireland, is absolutely bursting at the seams. There is a need for another post-primary Irish-medium school in Belfast, but that looks to be a long way off being delivered at the moment. <BR /> <BR />How would greater integration affect education outcomes? Do we have evidence that it would improve them or disimprove them? Those are the important questions that need to be answered.”
“I will make a distinction between what, I think, the proposer advocates, which is a system of greater integration, and the current integrated system. I have already highlighted the point that some integrated schools use academic selection, which undermines the concept of integration. The current integrated system is also the lowest-performing when it comes to educational outcomes, whereas the maintained sector is the highest-performing. <BR /> <BR />The important people in the debate are not so much those of us sitting in the Chamber, although many of us have children and make decisions about what school we want to send them to; the important people are the parents who are thinking about the educational opportunities that they can provide for their children.”
“Many of us, including the proposer of the Bill, have been through the Catholic sector. I doubt that even she would argue that sectarianism was in any way promoted in the school that she went to. If you speak to teachers, principals and pastoral leaders in the maintained sector, they will tell you that they teach respect and try to give children a rounded education in order to have them come out of school as better people overall and people with respect for others in society. It is unfair that it is often that sector at which many people point the finger in debates such as this. <BR /> <BR />One important issue in education is that parents want to have the choice to send their children to the best schools, where they will get the best education.”
“That does not mean that I do not support it, but integration, to me, is more than Catholics and Protestants going to school together. One of my criticisms of the current integrated movement is that there are still schools in that sector that select children on the basis of the post-primary transfer test. Therefore, it is not properly integrated. If we are talking about integration, there has to be an end to academic selection. <BR /> <BR />One of the other issues that have arisen has caused some resentment in the maintained sector. In some ways, that sector feels that it is blamed for sectarianising society here.”
“When that country imploded, that did not stop people who had been at school together engaging in conflict and even killing one another. Therefore, it is important that, yes, there is greater integration, but it is more important that we finally resolve the structural inequalities that have existed in this state since its foundation. <BR /> <BR />Of course, I will mention the Irish language again. We still face strong opposition from the party opposite to the integration of the Irish language and culture into society, never mind our education system. <BR /> <BR />Although I have said that we all instinctively support integrated education, I am not aware of any real evidence that integration will have longer-term benefits for society.”
“Of course, I would never challenge the authority of the Speaker. However, when we talk about change in these debates, it is important to contextualise the situation that needs to be changed. Of course, Mr Storey has a particular perspective, and I have a different perspective. We will agree to disagree on that. <BR /> <BR />The difficulty is this: even if children had been integrated since the foundation of this state, would it have made any difference? My answer is, "No, it would not". Structural inequalities existed outside the school setting, and that was the problem. Unless we can resolve the structural inequalities in society, we will face the same difficulties over and over again. <BR /> <BR />We need only look at other international examples. In the former Yugoslavia, all education was integrated.”
“If we were setting out today, in 2021, rather than1921, with a blank sheet of paper, we would have a different education system. Unfortunately, back then, the people responsible for setting up the education system did not have progressive views on diversity in that system. No one from a nationalist background believes that aspects of the Irish culture, such as the Irish language and Gaelic games, including Gaelic football and so on, would have been taught in state schools.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. Instinctively, I support greater integration in our schools; I think that most people would be of the same opinion. Instinctively, most of us believe that it is good for children to meet other children from diverse backgrounds, be that different religion, ethnicity, socio-economic background or ability. We think that that is important, and, of course, it is.”
“Since then, we have had the 'A Fair Start' report. How will cooperation in this area be enhanced?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis ar maidin. I thank the Minister for her statement this morning. Educational underachievement and the shared challenges that it presents across the island were discussed at an NSMC meeting last year.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis ar maidin. I thank the joint First Minister for her statement this morning. Does she have any concerns about the delivery arrangements for the Levelling Up Fund and the Shared Prosperity Fund?”
“<BR /> <BR />How do we deal with the issues and problems that have been brought to our attention by victims and survivors, and their advocates? There have been enough delays in the process, so any review of the workings of the redress board needs to be short and sharp. The last thing that victims and survivors need is another long, drawn-out review. The focus needs to be on solutions that will improve and enhance the process. The best way to ensure that that happens is to involve victims and survivors and to let their voices be heard. <BR /> <BR />We need a short, sharp victim-centred review that focuses on solutions and brings empathy for victims to the forefront of the process.”
“Yes, I agree entirely with the Member. Of course, there are other victims and survivors who believe that the redress board cannot possibly empathise with the suffering that they have had to endure unless it actually listens to victims giving evidence directly. <BR /> <BR />As I said, redress must be more than the administration of legal compensation. That should be just one part of a reparations framework on the part of the state, the victims and the survivors. Importantly, as a first base, it must be trauma-informed and victim-centred. If victims and survivors are feeling disempowered and detached from the current process, clearly it is failing and needs to be fixed. These victims and survivors have been failed already by the state. They do not deserve to be failed again.”
“Currently, the process, as everyone has said, is very legalistic and based on a relationship with a solicitor who communicates with the redress board. Why can there not be direct communication between victims and survivors and the redress board? Why can a caseworker not be assigned to victims and survivors who can keep them informed about what is going on in the process in their case? <BR /> <BR />Another issue that has been raised by some victims and survivors is that they do not have the facility to give evidence to the board in person. I hasten to add that not everyone would want to do that, but those who do should be facilitated. How can board members really understand what victims have endured, and the impact of the abuse on them, if they do not hear them? Redress must be more than just the administration of legal compensation.”
“I do not feel that that courage is being either recognised or repaid. <BR /> <BR />Let me mention some of the issues that victims and survivors and the advocates have raised with us. The redress board was established under the presumption that there would be 5,000 applications for redress. In the first year, 506 final determinations were completed. If the board continues to work at that pace, it will take up to 10 years to complete the work. Many victims and survivors are already elderly, and some have already died, so the process needs to be speeded up. Probably the most important thing that is missing from the process is proper communication with victims and survivors. As Fiona Ryan, the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse, said:”
“Victims and survivors have been campaigning for many years for redress as a result of the abuse that they suffered while in the care of the state. The Hart inquiry and, more recently, the setting up of the redress board gave victims and survivors hope that their long journey was coming to an end. Unfortunately, many problems continue to dog this process. Those problems exist, many argue, because the process itself and the redress board were not designed in a way that was victim and survivor-centred. That is a considerable flaw in the process, and it is not what was intended when this legislation was being designed. It is all the more disappointing because, for victims and survivors to make contact with any agency or body about the abuse that they suffered, it takes considerable courage.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra. I thank the Minister for her answer. The emotional health and well-being framework was a welcome intervention in mental health policy. I have some concerns that it was mainly developed prior to the pandemic. Will the Minister give a commitment to review the framework and ensure that it is resilient, given the many challenges that young people face as a result of the pandemic?”
“I also wish the Member well in her new role as Education Minister. The Minister will be aware that the school estate across the North is crying out for investment. Many schools have been operating in outdated, inappropriate and so-called temporary accommodation for 20 years. Can she outline her investment plans for the school estate that our young people need and deserve?”
“Minister, over the past number of months, I have engaged with school leaders in my constituency, and it is clear that the mental health support system in our schools is under considerable pressure. It was under considerable pressure and has become all the worse as a result of the pandemic. Given that mental health in our schools is a cross-cutting issue, what engagement have you had with the Education Minister or Ministers over the past while? What will you do to ensure that our young people get the support that they need in the school system?”
“There is no reason why the rights of Irish language speakers cannot be recognised at the same time as waiting lists are dealt with and a new university is created in Derry. We can walk and chew gum. All those issues are dealt with by Governments all over the world: it is what is known as "multitasking". <BR /> <BR />Society can no longer be held back by the anti-rights faction of one party. This is about delivering an explicit NDNA commitment. The motion gives that commitment, but the amendment departs from it. This is a straight choice for unionism: if you give your word, keep it and honour your commitments. We face instability because we are fed up listening to unionists giving commitments, saying they will honour those commitments and then reneging on them. I support the motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />With the unexpected onset of the global health crisis, the Executive rightly prioritised their response to the fightback and to saving lives and livelihoods. However, we are now out of time. We need to see delivery, not more broken promises and hollow commitments. However, despite our party leadership meeting the leader of the DUP on a number of occasions over recent weeks, he has made it clear that he does not intend to honour his commitments during this mandate. That is not surprising. Unionist opposition to progressive change has always been a feature of our peace process, so it is now necessary for the Governments to deliver equality and rights to citizens.”
“For three years, we were without a functioning Government until New Decade, New Approach was agreed in January last year after prolonged negotiations between the five Assembly parties and the two Governments. The parties and the two Governments all signed up to the 80 commitments in NDNA to deliver on issues including nurses' pay, hospital waiting lists, the establishment of a medical school and the expansion of Magee university, social housing and, of course, a package on language, culture and identity. New Decade, New Approach committed the parties that formed the Executive to delivering not just on translation services but on the entire language, culture and identity package and to do so within three months of the political institutions being restored.”
“The refusal of the DUP to commit to any Irish language provisions is the context for this debate, and it is a cause of huge concern. The refusal of the DUP to honour its time-bound commitment to deliver on commitments, including Irish language legislation, given as part of the New Decade, New Approach deal to restore the institutions can lead only to greater instability in the institutions. <BR /> <BR />Let us not forget why we needed that deal in the first place. Let us not forget that the institutions collapsed under the weight of the renewable heat incentive (RHI) scandal and of DUP disrespect, typified by the vindictive decision of the aspiring First Minister to cut Líofa funding for disadvantaged children to go to the Gaeltacht and learn Irish.”
“It is a universal principle that agreements made should be agreements honoured. The motion is about the implementation of one small part of the New Decade, New Approach agreement, which was clear:”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra. The Minister will be aware of the importance of the Casement Park development and how long it has taken to get to this stage. While I acknowledge and fully support the need for a rigorous planning process, we are still waiting for the application, despite the project having been given the go-ahead for next year. Will the Minister give a commitment that she will ensure that that is dealt with as soon as possible so that much-needed investment is delivered into the heart of west Belfast and that the GAA community gets the ground that it has been waiting for for many years?”
“I thank the Principal Deputy Speaker for that information. <BR /> <BR />I absolutely agree with the Member and thank him for the intervention. <BR /> <BR />The forthcoming independent review of education will, no doubt, flag up issues such as area planning and investment in the school estate and infrastructure, which cannot be dealt with efficiently and effectively with in-year budgets.”
“Departments need that certainty and stability to develop long-term policy and deliver on strategic outcomes.”
“However, we cannot ignore the fact that the block grant has been plundered by this Tory Government for over a decade. We are operating on reduced budgets. <BR /> <BR />Another important point in 'A Fair Start' is that, due to the austerity agenda over a 10-year period, spending per child here was cut by around 10%. In Scotland, spending rose by 5% and is £1,500 a year more per pupil than here. In Scotland, £7,300 goes to a child's education; here, it is £5,800. I give out that information because surely it galvanizes the argument for the devolution of fiscal powers so that we can fund our own public services and invest further in our children and young people. <BR /> <BR />As Mr Muir pointed out, we also need to see the realisation of another NDNA commitment: multi-year Budgets.”
“Last week, 'A Fair Start' was published, which investigated the links between educational underachievement and socio-economic backgrounds. The report concluded that £180 million would be required over the next five years to address educational underachievement. I understand that there is a collective agreement in the Executive on implementing the action plan, but that is a lot of additional investment when dealing with a British Government who continue to plunder the block grant. <BR /> <BR />I heard what my colleague Daniel McCrossan said. We all understand what goes on. People come in here and play politics. They look at opinion polls and say, "We have to do something to get our ratings up a bit, so who will we attack?". That is what people do in here, and that is OK. We all understand that.”
“In any event, I live in hope that, at some time, even at this late stage and given that we are dealing with the Budget and the funds that have been allocated, maybe some local media will pick up on the fact that holiday hunger was dealt with here before Marcus Rashford even began his campaign across the water.”
“They are more likely to live in poor housing that is not heated and has poor insulation. As a result, children will have more illness and miss more days at school and fall behind in their learning. We cannot deal with issues like that through just Education; Communities, Finance and Health have to be involved. If we are to deal with poverty, we need to deal with it in a joined-up way. Therefore, I do not disagree with what the Member says.”
“I do not disagree with the Member, but I am making the point about the difference between the media response to a footballer across the water and a decision by the Executive here. We did not need a professional footballer to come in and force us here and the Finance Minister to make a decision about providing funding for food for children during school holidays. <BR /> <BR />Disadvantage, deprivation and poverty are issues that have to be dealt with in a joined-up way. The Member, having spent a long time on the Education Committee, will know the problems that face children. The biggest impact on educational outcomes is the socio-economic background of the children. Those who come from a disadvantaged background are more likely to have poor educational outcomes.”
“The Finance Minister is to be heartily congratulated for making that funding available, and the Executive as a whole also should be congratulated for making the decision to allow that money to be made available for holiday hunger.”
“I do not know how many front-page headlines he got in the tabloids and how many column inches he got in the broadsheets for the work that he did in forcing the Tory Government to make funding available for food for schoolchildren from disadvantaged backgrounds during school holidays. The praise that he got was entirely justified, but I am still waiting for the media to pick up on the fact that, here, the Finance Minister made £30·6 million available for holiday hunger. There was hardly a word about it. The media are very quick to paint the Executive and the Assembly as dysfunctional and never getting anything right. However, when they do get something right, like that, the media practically ignore it.”
“That will continue to be a problem. <BR /> <BR />The mental health champion, Professor Siobhán O'Neill, told the Committee some months ago that she expected a tsunami of emotional and well-being issues among our young people and schoolchildren because of the effects of the pandemic, the lockdown and so on. It is an issue that will have to be dealt with in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Supporting children with special educational needs has been a priority for Sinn Féin, and I welcome the additional £10 million that the Minister has made available. <BR /> <BR />Prior to the pandemic, addressing holiday hunger was a priority for Sinn Féin. On that issue, I have spoken a number of times in the Chamber about Marcus Rashford, the Manchester United footballer, who was lionised and eulogised by the media in England.”
“I commend Mr Muir for his speech, which was very good and very welcome. A lot of hot air has been spoken in here today by many Members. It is unlikely that any of that will get into the media, because there is only one news story today and it is not the Budget. <BR /> <BR />I am speaking as Sinn Féin's education spokesperson. The Finance Minister has demonstrated his commitment to children and young people. In the challenging context of a standstill Budget, he has funded all of the pressures that were identified for this academic year by the Education Minister. I am hopeful that further investment will be forthcoming for the next academic year when the time comes. Education received 18% of the resource budget and £108 million of COVID funding to deal with the impact of COVID on the well-being and learning of children and young people.”
“I intend to be fairly brief. I will do my best to stick to the subject: I do not want to be chastised like some other Members.”
“There is absolutely no need for it. It again indicates the level of arrogance and disrespect for the institutions here. In the long term, it can serve only to undermine our devolved institutions. We, as a party, will challenge Brandon Lewis at the earliest opportunity to explain the appointment.”