Pat Sheehan
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that the Minister's School Uniforms (Guidelines and Allowances) Bill was poor legislation and a missed opportunity?”
“The last point that you made reminded me of one of the witnesses — a young girl — who came to the Committee. During the winter, she wore her own overcoat, but she had to take it off 100 yards from the school gate because she was not allowed to wear it into the school.”
“Agus iad ag ullmhú le haghaidh scrúduithe GCSE agus ard-leibhéil, féadann an imní agus an éiginnteacht sin drochthionchar a imirt ar a n-oideachas agus ar a bhfolláine.”
“Is scannalach go deo an foréigean ciníoch a chonaic muid le seachtain anuas. Tá ionsaithe ar theaghlaigh, ar thithe agus ar ghnólachtaí doleithscéil, agus tá siad dochosanta. Níor cheart eagla a mbáis a bheith ar dhaoine neamhurchóideacha mar gheall ar a gcine, a gcúlra ná a gcreideamh.”
“One of the reasons, Daniel, is that, if we were to have blocked the Bill at the Executive, the SDLP would be saying tomorrow morning "This place is dysfunctional. You're blocking legislation. Sinn Féin is blocking legislation, and the DUP is blocking legislation". No, we are not blocking legislation.”
“I have not once today argued against inspections. Not once. The Bill is about one thing and one thing only: intimidating and punishing teachers.”
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“I will come to that point in a minute, if you will let me finish the point that I was going to make. <BR /> <BR />So, what is the point of us trying to reduce community transmission? Bear in mind that I see this as a contract with the citizens. We introduce these regulations and restrictions, which are often quite draconian, on the basis that, if they do what we ask them to do, we will do our best to protect them, to save lives, to ensure that our health service is not overwhelmed and so forth. However, what is the point of us trying to reduce community transmission here if we are going to open the door and welcome the virus in on planeloads of people who are coming into Belfast City Airport, Aldergrove, Derry or wherever? What is the point?”
“However, it was OK to jump on a plane at Heathrow, hop off at Belfast City Airport and go about your business by getting into a taxi, train or bus to go into the city centre to do your shopping or whatever. A plane holds 160 passengers, so if one person in 40 in the south-east of England was infected with the virus, then it does not take you to be Einstein to work out the maths and the probability that there were four infected people coming in on every flight from the south of England.”
“That tells me that the responsibility for development plans and developing a strategy to combat this virus rests with the Department of Health, particularly with the Minister of Health. It is also the responsibility of the Department of Health to provide advice. I still cannot get my head around the advice that was given to the Executive, just before Christmas, with regard to travel from London. Matt Hancock had told us that the virus was out of control in the south of England, and that the new variant had become dominant. In fact, we were being told that, probably, one person in 40 in London was infected with this virus, and in some parts of London, the infection rates were as high as one person in 30.”
“The Member will recall that, last week, in the Health Committee, I said that I welcome help from wherever it comes. People wanted to focus on other elements of what I said. I thought that it would have been a significant story that a former member of the IRA, ex-political prisoner and hunger striker said that he had no issue with British soldiers coming to work in our hospitals. I thought that it would have been newsworthy, but maybe not. <BR /> <BR />In any event, we were talking about strategies, and the Health Minister said earlier that it was not his responsibility to bring forward a strategy; it was that of the Executive. Let me read from the first-day brief to the Health Committee. Under section 3.8, on emergency planning, it states:”
“That is why there are more patients than ever in hospital and higher transmission rates than at any time since the pandemic started. A clear objective is needed. When you have a clear objective, you build a strategy to reach it, and you use whatever measures or tools you have at your disposal to bring you, through that strategy and strategic targets, to your overall objective.”
“Nurses on the very front line are struggling to deal with the patients on ventilators in ICU. <BR /> <BR />We have been here many times to discuss the regulations. Their aim is to reduce the rate of community transmission of the virus, or perhaps at certain times, when the transmission rate is low, to ease some of the restrictions that have been introduced. My difficulty is that that is not a strategy; the regulations are not a strategy. <BR /> <BR />Last week, in the Committee, the Health Minister said that his objective is to keep the R rate below 1. That is not a very ambitious objective. However, even by his own standards, if that is his objective, the Minister has failed, and failed miserably. That is why we are in the situation that we are in today.”
“I know that patients are being offered chemotherapy as a sort of suboptimal treatment while they wait for the potential or the possibility of surgery. <BR /> <BR />Then on top of that we have the issue of mental ill health and the people who are struggling badly with their mental heath as a result of this pandemic and the lockdowns and so on and so forth. I want to give a special mention to front-line care workers because, yesterday, I spoke to an ICU nurse who told me that, of a group of 15 nurses, eight have to take sleeping tablets because the images in their minds will not allow them to sleep at night. Imagine the impact that that will have on the resilience of the health service in the time ahead. Many more problems and issues could be discussed in the debate, but that one about those nurses is, perhaps, the most worrying.”
“The true cost of this pandemic has been well laid out today, and not just for those who have died. There are also many who have been left with long-term illness — long COVID — and that will test our health service very much in the time ahead. We have also heard in particular about those who have received cancer diagnoses and have been told that their emergency surgery is going to be cancelled. It was very worrying last week to hear one of the trust chief executives tell us at the Health Committee that in some cases, in some patients, the cancer will already have spread by the time that they get the treatment they need. Imagine the devastation of, in the first place, getting a cancer diagnosis, and then it being followed up with that news.”
“I agree entirely that Robin is not a callous individual; he is a very decent man. I asked him a question earlier and he did not answer it. Perhaps you can answer it, Alan. I asked why, instead of the trusts announcing that cancer surgery was going to be cancelled, he did not first scope out what capacity there was in the private sector and ensure that those who have a cancer diagnosis were not kicked in the teeth again. The Minister did not answer that.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. <BR /> <BR />I was at the Health Committee last week when the chief executives of three trusts attended. Will the Member agree that, depending on whether we listen to statistics from the Department or NISRA, either slightly fewer or slightly more than 2,000 people have died as a direct result of COVID-19 but that many more people have lost their life during the emergency as a result of cancer? The two cases that the Member mentioned in the Committee last week are very poignant, but there are multiple cases like that. Some day, we have to get the true number of people who have died in the emergency.”
“When will the Health Minister bring forward a strategy to deal with this problem?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister. It must be absolutely devastating for anyone to get a cancer diagnosis. To then be told that your treatment is going to be cancelled must be more even devastating. We had three health trust chief executives in Committee last week. We were told that, in some cases, the cancer will have spread before those people receive treatment. Will the Minister tell us why he did not scope out capacity in the private sector before the health trusts made an announcement about the cancellation of treatment, because that has made the situation all the worse for patients who have a cancer diagnosis? <BR /> <BR />While I am here, Joe Biden brought forward a 200-page strategy for combating the virus within two days of coming into office.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagraí inniu. I thank the Minister for her answers today. Will she outline for the Assembly the work that has been undertaken to date by the Executive's COVID task force?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis anseo inniu. I thank the Minister for his statement. The move to online learning has highlighted the digital divide between students, with there being unequal access to suitable devices and Wi-Fi. Will the Minister join me in calling on the Education Minister to bid for money to purchase iPads and online teaching resources and to ensure that all students have access to Wi-Fi in their home?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire, agus fáilte ar ais arís, a Aire. I thank the Minister and welcome her back. What financial support has been given to museums during the COVID-19 pandemic?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for that answer. What new measures does he hope will be in the bovine TB strategy?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an chomh-Chéad Aire as an ráiteas. I thank the deputy First Minister for the statement. It is clear that COVID-19 does not recognise or respect borders. That speaks to the need for enhanced collaboration and greater working together. Will the Minister explain the practical benefits of the North/South Ministerial Council in managing our response to this public health emergency?”
“That shows the true spirit of the people of Belfast, who are disgusted by this type of attack. I welcome the fact that so many people have, clearly and without hesitation, condemned this attack, and others are helping financially to ensure that the association gets back on its feet as soon as possible.”
“It was also in the process of setting up education programmes for people in the community. <BR /> <BR />It beggars belief that anyone could think that anything could be achieved by attacking a building and an organisation like that. I agree with the previous Member to speak that there is no support that I can see anywhere in our community for that type of action. It should be stamped out and stamped out now. The people who carried out this action have nothing to offer society. <BR /> <BR />The Minister for Communities, Deirdre Hargey, met the Belfast Multicultural Association two days ago and is helping it to get back on its feet. It is heartening to see the crowdfunding exercise that Gerry Carroll mentioned. The initial objective was to raise £10,000, and, at the moment, the fund is sitting at just shy of £60,000.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to this Matter of the Day, and I thank Gerry Carroll for bringing it before the Assembly. I condemn in the strongest possible terms the arson attack on the Belfast Multicultural Association building. What is that building? First of all, it is a refuge for those strangers who come to this city who do not know many people and may be frightened and apprehensive about what faces them in a strange new land. So, it is a refuge for people like that. It is also a place that has been working for the community. As the previous Member to speak pointed out, it has been involved in distributing food parcels to the most vulnerable in society during the public health emergency. It also operates a clothing bank for people who are in financial difficulties and cannot afford to buy clothes.”
“Thank you very much. Does the Member agree that it does not help parents and children when the Minister is so categorical and definitive in his statements that schools will open in the first week of January, instead of saying that we will assess the situation, take the medical and scientific advice and act on that?”
“— may have on council services and the local economy.”
“Certainly, yes. <BR /> <BR />Creating chaos and confusion throughout this process has been a particular feature of the British Government. Our response to the report should be a realistic and cooperative effort to mitigate the destructive effect that Brexit and its surrounding uncertainty —”
“Cross-border supply chains and labour markets are under threat, and uncertainty and anxiety are the order of the day.”
“I want to move on to the shared prosperity fund, which the Chairperson mentioned earlier. Councils were almost unanimous in saying that they had no information about that fund except that it is supposed to replace the funding that comes from the EU. However, the shared prosperity fund will not become operational until 2022, which will result in a loss of £77 million of spending power in the meantime. Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council flagged the risk to jobs and the loss of skills that there will be if funding for various projects ceases until 2022, because people will go looking for other employment and those skills will be lost. <BR /> <BR />The picture that the report paints for us is very disturbing. Business preparedness in the North is less than half what it is in the South.”
“That exemplifies the difficulties faced by businesses, particularly small and medium-sized enterprises here in the North of Ireland.”
“Service providers in border areas are at the mercy of whatever divergence may happen from next year onwards. The council argued that the South is an important stepping stone into other global markets. It stated:”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. I could not agree more. It is just another example of the type of chaos that we are facing as a result of this calamitous Brexit exercise. <BR /> <BR />As I was saying, those issues cannot be blamed on the EU. The British Government and the Department for the Economy have responsibility for preparing businesses for the changes that are coming, and they have failed miserably thus far. <BR /> <BR />Councils in border counties, where a lot of trade is carried on with the South, face particular difficulties. Trade in the Newry, Mourne and Down District Council area, for example, faces great uncertainty. Services trade amounted to over £3 billion, yet we know that services are not covered by the protocol.”
“The EU is not responsible for what is happening here at the minute. The only thing that can be blamed is Brexit. The British Government —.”
“As a result, many businesses will continue to face uncertainty and anxiety. New schemes for trading and movement of goods are being introduced without businesses getting clarity about new rules, IT systems and so on. There is a trader assistance scheme, a UK trader scheme and a movement assistance scheme, which all deal with different aspects of movement. Surely throwing all those schemes at traders so late in the year will cause only more confusion. <BR /> <BR />In this whole debate, those in favour of Brexit often blame the EU for whatever problems arise. We hear that regularly, even in the midst of the ongoing negotiations. One constant theme that most of the councils brought up concerned the lack of preparedness for Brexit at the end of the transition period. That cannot be blamed on the EU.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to speak here tonight. It was a very useful exercise to bring councils to the Committee. The evidence that we received was quite repetitive insofar as many councils raised the same themes and issues. The message from most councils to the Executive Office Committee was crystal clear. Most are alarmed at the lack of preparation and communication as we approach the cliff edge on 31 December and the end of the transition period. <BR /> <BR />Last week brought some clarity about the protocol, but even that announcement contained further uncertainty. The supply of medicines has been put on the long finger for a year, chilled meats for six months and SPS checks for three months. In reality, all that has been achieved is that the blockage has been pushed further down the pipe.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he agree that the high levels of transmission of the virus are worrying and that, although restrictions such as these are aimed at lowering transmission, that does not seem to be happening? Even at the minute, the rates of transmission in the North are more than four times what they are in the South. That suggests that we are doing something wrong up here.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, agus gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta as a ráiteas inniu. I thank the Minister for his statement. <BR /> <BR />First of all, I welcome the consultation on soft opt-out organ donation. I know that the Minister has met young Dáithí and his parents, Máirtín and Steph, who come from my constituency. Dáithí attends the same school as my children. I know that they are overjoyed at the beginning of this consultation, and they see it as another step forward in their campaign. <BR /> <BR />Moving on to North/South cooperation, will the Minister provide information on the cooperation on contact tracing between North/South? Who is collecting the data? How is it shared between the North and the South? How can that information be accessed for examination?”
“Maybe, if the bus driver had a supply, he or she could provide a mask to the person who has genuinely forgotten their mask. Again, I am raising the issue of making masks free in some circumstances.”
“Forgetting face masks is an interesting issue. The principal of the school that my two kids attend has asked parents to wear a face mask when they are leaving children to school, especially if they are in rang a 1 or rang a 2 — primary 1 or primary 2 — and are being brought to the door. I usually wear a mask, but, this morning, I was almost at the door when I realised that I did not have it on. There was nobody queuing in front of me, so I went ahead. The point is about someone who gets onto a bus, perhaps, and has forgotten their mask. It is not just a question of someone forgetting their mask. The fine and enforcement are irrelevant. The point is that somebody is getting onto the bus. They may be asymptomatic; they may have COVID-19. Earlier, I talked about providing masks free of charge.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have other concerns as well. My concern about the contact-tracing operation here has been well documented. There have also been problems with the roll-out of the flu jab. What I hope is that, between the Department of Health, the Executive Office and the COVID-19 task force, they can ensure that there is a smooth roll-out of the vaccine. The sooner most of us get it, the better, so that we can get back to some sort of normality. I will leave it there.”
“I am not making a political point about this in terms of constitutional issues and where the vaccine is coming from. All that I am saying is that the source is not reliable. I am on record as welcoming the introduction of the vaccine. I am also on record as saying that I will take the vaccine, and I will encourage absolutely everyone else to take it. I said here last week that my children will take it, too, but I was a bit quick off the mark, because it is my understanding that children will not get the vaccine. In any event, I will certainly encourage as many people as possible to take it. <BR /> <BR />My problem is with the British Government and the way in which they have dealt with the pandemic so far. They have exhibited a degree of ineptness that is rare to see in any Government. That is partially my concern.”
“We are dependent on the British Government to supply the vaccine. Everything that the Government have touched so far in relation to the pandemic has been shambolic. In dealing with the pandemic, they have made a mess of every single aspect, and we are dependent on them to get the vaccine.”
“You start off by supporting people, you ask them to comply and you do what you can to ensure that they can comply. That was why I raised earlier, with the Chair of the Executive Office Committee, the idea of providing masks free of charge in some circumstances, maybe to people who are on benefits or something like that and to the low paid, so that masks could be made available to them. <BR /> <BR />This is an important day. This is the day on which the vaccine roll-out started. I hope and I suppose that most people will be praying that the timetable that has been announced will be kept to. I have to say, without wanting to rain on anybody's parade here, that I have some scepticism about the ability to roll this vaccine out in the timescale that has been announced. There are a number of reasons for that.”
“I accept what the Members says. I have no difficulty with that. I am quoting what a doctor said. There is always an alternative. If you cannot wear a face mask, there is probably no reason why you cannot wear a visor, for example. A visor, they say, is not as good as a face mask but it is better than not wearing anything at all, and that is the issue that I am trying to emphasise here. There are also quite a few chancers who say that they cannot wear a face mask, and they get away with it because they do not have to prove that they can or cannot. <BR /> <BR />I talked about these regulations being part of a contract. There are issues around enforcement, compliance and support, and, in my view, they are all part of the one continuum.”
“It is similar with these regulations. We cannot introduce them here in the Assembly and thrash them out and debate them until we are blue in the face. We need to move quickly. In those circumstances, sometimes mistakes will be made, but that is what happens.”
“My criticism about the fact that we did not introduce face masks earlier is, again, because the countries that have been most successful in dealing with the virus are the ones that acted with speed. They did not wait for the science to be absolutely 100% sure. If there was any suggestion at all that a measure was going to work, they moved quickly. When the virus first arrived in South Korea, the Government there called in all the pharma companies and told them to develop a test. The pharma companies came back and said that they could only develop a test that was 90% accurate. The Government told them to go ahead. Better 90% accurate than not carrying out any tests. <BR /> <BR />It is the same with these other issues such as face masks. Speed is of the essence. We need to move quickly; we cannot sit and discuss.”
“I have heard a few Members saying that you have to bear in mind that some people cannot wear masks for medical or psychological reasons. I heard a reputable doctor on TV recently say that there really is no reason why anyone should refuse to wear a mask. There may be a small number of exceptions, but, by and large, everyone should be wearing masks or face coverings, particularly indoors and when they are coming into contact with other people.”
“That might have been the case at the start of the pandemic, I do not know. However, from very early on, as far back as March, scientific evidence was emerging about the efficacy of wearing masks and face coverings. In those countries, where they are worn habitually — South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and so on — the rate of transmission of the virus and, indeed, deaths as a result of COVID-19, is much lower than here. <BR /> <BR />There are other reasons for that: their contact-tracing operation, controls at ports and airports, and enforcement of isolation, for example. I am not suggesting that face masks, on their own, are responsible for lower transmission rates; however they are a significant factor. Over recent months, the evidence in support of wearing masks has increased.”
“In fact, junior Minister Lyons introduced a bit of mirth into the discussion, some months back, about my raising the wearing of face masks when it was not part of the regulations being introduced that day. <BR /> <BR />In countries with a culture of wearing face masks, there is a lower transmission rate of the virus. The science is now clear: wearing masks, according to the Chief Scientific Adviser, significantly reduces the transmission of the virus.”
“Go and mix, do whatever you want and socialise, but be prepared to bury some of your family and friends after Christmas". That is how serious it is; that is the message that we have to get across. If people disregard the restrictions and the message of social distancing, washing your hands, wearing a mask and so on, we face increased transmission, if not before Christmas, certainly after it. That is important. <BR /> <BR />Some of the restrictions relate to the wearing of face coverings or masks. I am on record, in the Chamber, of advocating the wearing of face masks long ago. Indeed, I was very disappointed that the wearing of face masks was not introduced earlier.”
“Absolutely. I cannot disagree with a word of that. I was going to say that the messaging over the next few weeks is very important. It is vital that all of us are on the same page in all this. As I have said, the arrival of the vaccine has raised people's hopes. We are coming up to Christmas and the restrictions have been relaxed, so there is the possibility of people letting their guard down. We have to guard against that. <BR /> <BR />Before the pandemic, few people were familiar with the name Gabriel Scally; now everyone knows who he is. He is one of the most pre-eminent public health doctors on these islands, and he is originally from the North. He says, "By all means, go out and celebrate with your friends and family before Christmas.”
“Sorry, I missed that. <BR /> <BR />Irrespective of what regulations we are dealing with today, it is important that everyone adheres to all the regulations, especially today, when we have the beginning of the roll-out of the vaccination programme. That is light at the end of the tunnel. We are also coming into the teeth of Christmas, and the restrictions have been relaxed. With those two things, there is a possibility that people will let their guard down. Of course, coming up to Christmas, everyone is more sociable, more friendly and convivial, and that may lead to people lowering their guard. We have to be sure that that does not happen. We have to be sure that —.”
“Absolutely. In fact, thinking back, I cannot think of any serious disagreement or row that has taken place in the Committee over the regulations. We have had debates and discussions that have been as thorough as possible under the circumstances, but I cannot recall any serious disagreement over them. <BR /> <BR />I have to say that, when I was listening to the Chair of the Justice Committee, I thought that maybe his problem stemmed from relationship difficulties with the Justice Minister more than anything else. It is unfortunate that he is not in his place now to discuss that. If he needs some marriage guidance counselling, I am happy to offer my services.”
“These regulations arrive to the Committee, and they have to be dealt with. There is a cut-off date for dealing with them, and that is what we do.”