Pat Sheehan
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that the Minister's School Uniforms (Guidelines and Allowances) Bill was poor legislation and a missed opportunity?”
“The last point that you made reminded me of one of the witnesses — a young girl — who came to the Committee. During the winter, she wore her own overcoat, but she had to take it off 100 yards from the school gate because she was not allowed to wear it into the school.”
“Agus iad ag ullmhú le haghaidh scrúduithe GCSE agus ard-leibhéil, féadann an imní agus an éiginnteacht sin drochthionchar a imirt ar a n-oideachas agus ar a bhfolláine.”
“Is scannalach go deo an foréigean ciníoch a chonaic muid le seachtain anuas. Tá ionsaithe ar theaghlaigh, ar thithe agus ar ghnólachtaí doleithscéil, agus tá siad dochosanta. Níor cheart eagla a mbáis a bheith ar dhaoine neamhurchóideacha mar gheall ar a gcine, a gcúlra ná a gcreideamh.”
“One of the reasons, Daniel, is that, if we were to have blocked the Bill at the Executive, the SDLP would be saying tomorrow morning "This place is dysfunctional. You're blocking legislation. Sinn Féin is blocking legislation, and the DUP is blocking legislation". No, we are not blocking legislation.”
“I have not once today argued against inspections. Not once. The Bill is about one thing and one thing only: intimidating and punishing teachers.”
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“I beg to introduce the Irish-medium Education (Workforce Plan) Bill [NIA 28/22-27], which is a Bill to require the Department of Education to prepare a workforce plan in respect of Irish-medium education.”
“I commend the Minister for this new approach to road maintenance. How does the recruitment of staff fit into her new resilience plan?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister, in his statement and responses, made a big play of the anxiety and mental health issues that face children as they are going towards exams. I specifically asked him, as did a number of other Members, about the anxiety that is experienced by 10- and 11-year-olds as they are facing into high-stakes exams. The Minister did not answer any of the Members who posed that question to him. Is it in order for the Minister to do that?”
“When asked for evidence to support his assertion that educational outcomes would be improved by the creation of a managing authority for the controlled sector, the Minister pointed to the consultation responses. In this case, the consultation responses on stand-alone AS qualifications and coursework were overwhelmingly opposed to the Minister's proposals. Therefore, can the Minister tell us when consultation responses are evidence and when they are not? If he is so concerned about anxiety among children in the lead-up to exams, why has he not considered the removal of academic selection?”
“It would also create uncertainty for those seeking to study elsewhere on the island. <BR /> <BR />How can we speak about improving mobility and smoothing pathways to university while dismantling a qualification that currently strengthens those pathways? Rather than press ahead with the reform, the Minister should listen. He should focus on what students and families need. That means protecting qualifications that work, promoting the full range of university options across Ireland and ensuring that students are properly supported to navigate the UCAS and CAO routes. <BR /> <BR />Our young people deserve first-class opportunities to study and build their future on this island. Breaking down barriers to mobility is part of that; creating new ones is not. I urge Members to support the motion.”
“Universities in the South recognise AS levels within the CAO framework. In many cases, an AS subject can be counted as an additional qualification for points purposes. That means that students here currently have the opportunity to present a broader academic profile when applying to institutions across the island. If AS levels are removed, students in the North will have fewer subjects to present through the CAO system. At a time when we are arguing for better alignment and increased mobility, that proposal risks weakening the competitiveness of our students for courses in Dublin, Cork, Galway and elsewhere in the South, which runs directly counter to the spirit of the motion. Scrapping AS levels would narrow subject choice earlier and increase pressure in a single set of high-stakes exams.”
“A streamlined, joined-up process would expand opportunity. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to an issue that was mentioned by a number of Members, namely the proposal by the Education Minister to scrap AS levels. At a time when we should be making progression to university clearer and more accessible, the Minister is pursuing a harmful reform agenda that risks doing the opposite. Almost two thirds of respondents to his departmental consultation expressed disagreement with his plans. There is no public appetite for scrapping AS levels. Parents, teachers and students understand the value of that qualification. It provides breadth in Year 13, contributes to the overall A-level outcome and gives universities a meaningful indication of performance when considering applicants. <BR /> <BR />There is a clear all-island dimension.”
“The motion is about opportunity. It is about ensuring that young people in the North are not constrained by administrative barriers or outdated systems when it comes to their future. <BR /> <BR />We welcome the positive work that has taken place between universities and Departments across the island to facilitate closer equivalence between A levels and the Leaving Cert. That progress matters, because it recognises the reality that young people increasingly see this island as a good place to study, work and live. However, let us be clear: barriers to student mobility remain. Misaligned admission dates between UCAS and the CAO create unnecessary stress. Different timelines force students to make decisions in the dark, sometimes accepting or declining offers without having the full picture, and that is not good enough.”
“Beidh tréan imeachtaí ceoil ann i mbliana, rud a thabharfaidh léargas dúinn ar an phléisiúr atá i ndán don chathair nuair a thiocfaidh an fhleadh sa tsamhradh. Beidh Féile an Earraigh, Féile Trad Trail agus Ceiliúradh Mór na Féile Pádraig ar na himeachtaí lena gcuirfear bailchríoch ar cheiliúradh Lá Fhéile Pádraig. <BR /> <BR />Molaim do Chomhaltaí eolas a chur ar na himeachtaí atá ar siúl thart orthu nó a mbeidh suim acu iontu. Is le gach duine agus le gach pobal Seachtain na Gaeilge. Bain úsáid as cibé Gaeilge atá agat. Bí páirteach inti.”
“Seo againn Seachtain na Gaeilge, an fhéile Ghaeilge is mó in Éirinn agus ar fud an domhain. Is féile idirnáisiúnta Ghaeilge í Seachtain na Gaeilge. Tá sí ar cheann de na ceiliúrthaí is mó dár dteanga agus dár gcultúr dúchais, agus bíonn sí ar siúl in Éirinn agus in go leor tíortha eile gach bliain. <BR /> <BR />Tugtar deis do gach duine le linn Sheachtain na Gaeilge sult a bhaint as an Ghaeilge trí bheith páirteach san fhéile, idir chainteoirí dúchais, fhoghlaimeoirí agus lucht an chúpla focal ar aon. Bíonn imeachtaí ann a riarfaidh ort, cuma cén aois thú ná cad é an chiall atá agat do chuideachta. Beidh tús áite ag an cheol i rith Sheachtain na Gaeilge 2026. Déanann téama na bliana seo "A Ghaeilge, mo cheol thú" déanann sin ceiliúradh ar an nasc dhomhain bhuan idir an Ghaeilge agus an ceol.”
“Of course I agree with that. In fact, the regional economy in the North is outperforming that of every other region in the UK at the moment, apart from, I think, the south-east. I do not know why you thought that I would disagree, but there you go. <BR /> <BR />Sin mise críochnaithe. Sin a bhfuil le rá agam.”
“A few years ago, Sinn Féin was being accused of economic illiteracy, and there was always talk of a begging bowl. I am glad to see that every party in the Assembly is now on board with the assertion that we have been underfunded by the British Government for decades. The cost of running this place is still not being met by the British Exchequer. I welcome the fact that other parties have moved on to our ground. <BR /> <BR />In that challenging financial context, our duty is clear. It is to secure fair funding, spend it wisely and ensure that we prioritise our vital public services.”
“We all recognise the growth in demand, particularly in special educational needs. However, it is not unreasonable to ask whether the more than £3 billion — £3 billion — that is already allocated is being deployed in the right way. Efficiency in transformation must be reflected in decisions that prioritise learning and support for children and young people. <BR /> <BR />In Education, every pound must be focused on delivering better results and opportunities for our young people. The priority has to be supporting vulnerable learners and backing the teachers and classroom assistants, who work tirelessly every day in our schools. In the challenging financial context, our duty is clear: secure fair funding.”
“My issue in raising that was the cost to the public purse of setting up something for which there is no supporting evidence. There has been no academic research. That is what we need to see. I will leave it at that. I have not seen any evidence so far. <BR /> <BR />In order to fund all his so-called priorities, the Education Minister is taking aim at our most vulnerable learners. At the direction of the DUP, the EA is looking at a cost-cutting exercise around the future of one-to-one classroom assistant support. All that is happening while schools struggle with escalating special educational needs pressures, classroom assistants are deeply anxious about their future and principals and teachers face relentless workload pressures. Of course, the Education Minister highlights funding pressures.”
“Go raibh maith agat as sin, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“His argument is that the Catholic sector has its own managing authority, so the controlled sector needs its own managing authority, because, when it gets that, it will improve educational outcomes in the controlled sector. If that were a cost-neutral issue, I would say, "Fill your boots. Go ahead. Let's see what the outcome is", but it is not: it will cost £1·2 million to set up and millions of pounds of resource funding over the time ahead. The Minister has been unable to produce one scintilla of evidence that setting up that managing authority will improve educational outcomes in the controlled sector.”
“That is a substantial allocation, yet we have seen hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on a phone pouch gimmick, millions of pounds directed towards panels and reviews with predetermined outcomes and further millions of pounds earmarked for a harmful reform agenda that teachers and school leaders are telling us is overwhelming them and the system. The Minister is also eyeing up pouring another couple of million pounds into a new managing authority for controlled schools; a policy that has no evidence base and is contrary to the expert recommendations of the independent review of education. <BR /> <BR />I have asked the Minister on a number of occasions about that proposed managing authority for the controlled sector.”
“OK. If you had let me finish before you intervened, I would have explained to you how we get money from the Treasury. What happens is that the Executive negotiate, through the Minister of Finance, any extra moneys coming here. It was the Minister of Finance who secured the reserve claim. It was nothing to do with Gavin Robinson and — I am not attacking Matthew here — nothing to do with the SDLP MPs either. That is the way that the world of politics works. The Member has been around here long enough. I thought that he would have known that by now. Apparently not. <BR /> <BR />I will move on. In a constrained budget, priorities matter. The Department of Education, led by the DUP, manages a budget of over £3 billion.”
“According to Brian, Gavin Robinson went and whispered in Rachel Reeves's ear and asked her for extra money. How long has Brian been involved in politics? He knows that that is not the way that it works.”
“As my party's education spokesperson, I put on record our support for the approach set out by the Finance Minister. He has been frank about the scale of the financial challenge facing the Executive. After years of underfunding by successive British Governments, our block grant does not reflect the level of need here. The gap continues to limit what we can do. The reserve claim secured this year was not about expanding services; it was about stabilising them and protecting Health and Education. We will continue to press the British Government for a fair funding model that delivers based on objective need. It was almost laughable to hear the back and forth between Brian Kingston and Matthew O'Toole about who was responsible for securing the reserve claim.”
“I said a couple of weeks ago in the House that I was agnostic on this issue and asked the Minister for evidence. I will go further than that: I and Sinn Féin will support any initiative that raises educational outcomes for all our children. The Minister has brought forward a hypothesis that, if the controlled sector has its own managing authority, that will raise outcomes in the controlled sector. I am asking the Minister to produce evidence to prove or support that hypothesis. Support from the controlled sector is not evidence. Consultation responses are not evidence. I want the Minister to produce evidence. If he can produce evidence to support his hypothesis, I will also support it.”
“Does the Member agree that the economic consequences of Brexit and the underfunding of our public services are the major difficulties facing the Assembly and Executive? Does he also agree that, although institutional reform is necessary, constitutional reform and the ending of partition are absolutely essential if we want to effectively address the fundamental financial, political and constitutional issues that these institutions face?”
“Can the Minister tell us what support is being provided to ensure the success of Fleadh Cheoil nah Éireann i mBéal Feirste?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.”
“Bíonn imní ar pháistí san am roimh an teist aistrithe, agus cuireann na torthaí imní orthu fosta, go háirithe ar pháistí ó chúlraí faoi mhíbhuntáiste. Ní bhíonn deireadh leis an imní sin ar lá na dtorthaí; leanann sí cuid mhór páistí ar feadh na mblianta, ag baint faoina bhféinmhuinín agus ag dul faoina meabhairshláinte agus faoin dearcadh atá acu ar an fhoghlaim. <BR /> <BR />Is léir ón taighde an dochar a dhéanann an roghnú ar bhonn acadúil. Creideann tromlach mór na múinteoirí go bhfuil tionchar diúltach ag an teist aistrithe ar mheabhairshláinte na bpáistí, agus má deirtear linn gur sháraigh orainn agus muid óg, téann sin faoinár bhféinmheas agus faoin éifeacht a dhéanfaidh muid. Má tá muid dáiríre faoi mheabhairshláinte na bpáistí a chosaint, caithfear an roghnú ar bhonn acadúil a chur ar ceal anois — faoi dheireadh thiar thall.”
“Seachtain Mheabhairshláinte na bPáistí an tseachtain seo. Is é téama fheachtas na bliana seo ná "Seo M’Áitse", agus is é is aidhm dó a chinntiú go mothaíonn páistí agus daoine óga go bhfuil áit acu sa tsochaí. Ba chóir do gach páiste a mhothú go bhfuil meas orthu agus go bhfuil tacaíocht acu sa chóras oideachais againn. Déanann an roghnú ar bhonn acadúil a mhalairt; diúltú acadúil atá ann. <BR /> <BR />Níl aon áit ag an teist aistrithe i gcóras oideachais nua-aimseartha cuimsitheach. In áit a bheith ag cuidiú le páistí a n-áit a aimsiú, is amhlaidh a scarann sí iad. Deirtear le cuid páistí "Tá libh", agus le páistí eile "Tá sibh ó rath", fiú sula bhfágann siad an bhunscoil. Cuirtear barraíocht brú ar pháistí agus iad 10 nó 11 bhliain d’aois.”
“If we truly believe in equality of opportunity, we cannot keep defending a system that does the opposite. I appeal to everyone — anyone who has an open mind — to look at the evidence.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some Members have dismissed the notion that children are harmed by academic selection. What do the experts say? The mental health champion, Siobhán O'Neill, has said that academic selection is "unethical and harmful". There is a whole body of research by reputable international organisations and individuals that supports her assessment. <BR /> <BR />I am asking Members to study the evidence, which is overwhelming. Academic selection has nothing to offer our education system. It does not promote social mobility. According to the experts, it is harmful, unethical and leads to inequality. Academic selection also distorts and warps the primary-school curriculum. Its abolition is not a panacea for our education system, but it is about fairness, evidence and putting children first.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the biggest issues in the debate is that unionism not just rejects the evidence but is not even prepared to look at it. A former DUP Minister of Education set up the 'A Fair Start' expert panel on educational underachievement among Protestant boys, but — guess what? — academic selection was not part of its remit. The current DUP Minister commissioned Lucy Crehan to carry out a review of the curriculum. Despite the fact that there is clear evidence that primary-school teaching is distorted and warped as a result of preparation for the selection test — guess what? — Lucy Crehan was told that academic selection was not part of her remit. Why? It is because there is none so blind as those who do not want to see. That is how the DUP and the UUP approach the issue of academic selection.”
“It is clear that arguments defending academic selection rarely draw on empirical evidence and instead rely on egalitarian rhetoric that serves only to obscure systemic inequalities. The argument is also made that parents should have the choice to send their children to whatever school they want. I heard Jon Burrows make that claim earlier in the debate. In reality, parents do not have the choice. Rather, it is the grammar schools that decide which pupils to take. It is not just academic selection but the cost of the uniform that is a barrier to children's attending some grammar schools. In Committee, we heard evidence that some schools' uniforms cost up to 800 quid. For the parent who is on benefits or on a low income, that automatically rules their child out of going to that school.”
“We have only to look at how few children on free school meals qualify to attend grammar schools. What is it about the clear evidence that unionists do not want to accept?”
“I am not a total supporter of the system in the South, and I would like the issue of private schooling to be dealt with. <BR /> <BR />I want to focus on the long tail of educational underachievement. One of the big claims about academic selection is that it promotes social mobility: is that true? Does it? We hear people say, "The working-class boy done good. He got his 11-plus", and the boy may have got to Methody, Campbell College or wherever, but the evidence tells us that it does not promote social mobility.”
“I will give way very briefly. If you are not brief, I will tell you to sit down.”
“Yes, I agree with that. The system in the South can raise standards without selection, while reducing early school leaving and supporting children to stay engaged in education. Selection is not a requirement for excellence; it is a barrier to it.”
“In fact, we have the longest tail of educational underachievement on these islands. Sir Bob Salisbury, the renowned educationalist, said a few years ago that we have the longest tail of educational underachievement in western Europe. We certainly have the most segregated education system in terms of advantage and disadvantage. <BR /> <BR />The education system just 30 miles down the road is a hell of a lot better than the education system that we have here. The results coming out of the education system in the South far exceed the educational outcomes here. It has shown that a non-selective system —.”
“There are many things that need to be changed, and one of the primary issues is academic selection. <BR /> <BR />Grammar schools produce good educational outcomes — I accept that many of them do — because they get the cream of the crop. They get the students with the best ability and the students whose parents who have been able to pay for private tuition for them. I asked this earlier, David: how many kids from the Shankill get to go to grammar schools? How many kids from the Shankill have parents who can afford the £35 or £40 an hour for private tuition? That gives kids from advantaged backgrounds a leg-up too. <BR /> <BR />Just because our grammar schools produce excellent results, it does not mean that we have the world-class education system that I often hear unionists talk about; far from it.”
“Probably no other area of public policy has had such a volume of research evidence, and that evidence is overwhelmingly negative in relation to academic selection. <BR /> <BR />There is no argument about whether our grammar schools produce excellent outcomes; of course, they do. The leader of the Ulster Unionist Party has talked about St Dominic's a couple of times today. My mother attended St Dominic's, as did my two sisters and some of my nieces. I know that it is an excellent school, but fewer than 15% of its pupils are on free school meals. That is a theme that runs through the grammar schools. We are told that academic selection is about giving kids from a disadvantaged background a hand-up and some social mobility, but the evidence shows how few of our children who are entitled to free school meals attend those grammar schools.”
“For fear of being interrogated about what type of school I went to, I will say that I did the 11-plus, sailed through it without stress, went to a grammar school and then left it and went to a non-grammar school. I then went on to further education and later did a degree in higher education. I have been around the block, as they say. I have lots of experience, but I would not want policy to be built on the experience that I or other individuals have. If you can pull 4,000 or 5,000 others together and get academics in to do proper research, we can use that as evidence of how the system is working. <BR /> <BR />I know that the issue prompts strongly held views, but, be that as it may, as legislators and policymakers, we have to look at and listen to the evidence. That is our job.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Thanks very much for giving way, Robbie. I hear what you say, and I understand it. There are kids who sail through the test and have no problem, but there are other children who do not: that is the problem. The mental health champion, who was appointed by your Minister, Robin Swann, stated clearly that academic selection is "unethical and harmful".”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The issue of mobile phones is a fairly recent phenomenon, and we have not seen all the evidence around that yet. There is, however, plenty of evidence that academic selection is harming children and that it does not create or promote the social mobility that we are talking about. How many kids from the Shankill get to grammar school or university? How many of their parents can afford £35 or £40 a week for private tuition?”
“As the previous Member to ask a question said, the Supreme Court was clear that religious education must be objective, critical and pluralistic. Will the Minister explain in clear terms how his approach will ensure that every child feels included and respected, regardless of their faith or beliefs?”
“I am happy to look at any evidence that the Minister can provide. He certainly has not provided any there. A consultation is not research, and it is not evidence. The fact that the Catholic sector outperforms the controlled sector is not evidence that the managing authority of one provides those outcomes in its own sector. I welcome the fact that the Minister said that he would provide evidence, and I look forward to seeing it, but I will remain agnostic until I see it. I look forward to the Minister trying to convince me otherwise.”
“A new managing authority for the controlled sector will cost a significant amount of money to set up and to resource in the time ahead. Will the Minister tell us what research he has had carried out and what evidence he has that the educational outcomes of children and young people in the controlled sector will improve as a result of the initiative?”
“Thirdly, the Minister should know, as a former Chair of the Justice Committee, that there should be no commentary in the Chamber on ongoing legal proceedings, and the Minister knows that an appeal against that original judicial review has been lodged.”
“In a number of the Minister's responses, he referred to the RAISE programme and accused Sinn Féin of being responsible for a judicial review having been taken. My point of order has a number of aspects to it, but, first of all, many people commented on the RAISE programme, not least teachers, principals, educationalists, journalists and others in the community and voluntary sector. It is false to say that Sinn Féin was responsible for a judicial review. Secondly, judicial reviews are accepted on the basis of their legal admissibility, and there is a fairly high threshold that applicants must pass.”
“On a point of order, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“In the course of his engagements with his counterpart from Dublin, has the Minister ever expressed curiosity about the fact that educational outcomes in the South far exceed those here, or has he asked for an explanation of why that is the case?”
“Tá mé ag tnúth go mór le mo Bhille um lucht saothair gaelscolaíochta a thabhairt os comhair an Tionóil, agus le beith ag déanamh feidhm don earnáil murab ionann is Airí de chuid an DUP, duine acu i ndiaidh an duine eile. <BR /> <BR />Leanfaimid orainn fosta de bheith ag cur i gcoinne na mbeart úd ar chlár oibre an Aire a thabharfadh ar gcúl muid amhail a chuid iarrataí leis an smior-chailleach a bhaint as an churaclam, le cos i bpoll a chur leis an mheasúnú leanúnach agus le córas a thabhairt isteach arís ina bhfuil scrúdú aonair strusmhar amháin ann, scrúdú ar a bhfuil barraíocht ag brath. Níl sin le leas an aosa óig. Leanfaidh Sinn Féin leis de bheith ag seasamh leis an oideachas agus de bheith ag obair le daoine eile le córas oideachais cuimsitheach, lánacmhainne a chruthú, córas nach bhfágfar aon duine ar deireadh ann.”