Pat Sheehan
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that the Minister's School Uniforms (Guidelines and Allowances) Bill was poor legislation and a missed opportunity?”
“The last point that you made reminded me of one of the witnesses — a young girl — who came to the Committee. During the winter, she wore her own overcoat, but she had to take it off 100 yards from the school gate because she was not allowed to wear it into the school.”
“Agus iad ag ullmhú le haghaidh scrúduithe GCSE agus ard-leibhéil, féadann an imní agus an éiginnteacht sin drochthionchar a imirt ar a n-oideachas agus ar a bhfolláine.”
“Is scannalach go deo an foréigean ciníoch a chonaic muid le seachtain anuas. Tá ionsaithe ar theaghlaigh, ar thithe agus ar ghnólachtaí doleithscéil, agus tá siad dochosanta. Níor cheart eagla a mbáis a bheith ar dhaoine neamhurchóideacha mar gheall ar a gcine, a gcúlra ná a gcreideamh.”
“One of the reasons, Daniel, is that, if we were to have blocked the Bill at the Executive, the SDLP would be saying tomorrow morning "This place is dysfunctional. You're blocking legislation. Sinn Féin is blocking legislation, and the DUP is blocking legislation". No, we are not blocking legislation.”
“I have not once today argued against inspections. Not once. The Bill is about one thing and one thing only: intimidating and punishing teachers.”
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“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis. I thank the Minister for his statement. I appreciate the difficulties that he is going to have in reestablishing normal services in our health system. I also acknowledge that he describes this as a "quick reflex". However, given that the membership of the management board is going to be made up almost exclusively of senior DOH managers and other senior managers within the health and social care system, with no involvement from trade union representative groups or patient bodies, does the Minister not think that he has missed an opportunity here? He mentioned partnership working and collaboration in his statement, but the essence of transformation is about co-design and co-production.”
“However, it is beneath contempt that they have cynically tried to manipulate emotions around Down's syndrome children in an attempt to undermine the right of women to modern and compassionate healthcare and to roll back the progress that we have seen belatedly on this issue. That is why Sinn Féin brought forward its amendment and why it is totally and absolutely opposed to the DUP motion.”
“No, I am not giving way. <BR /> <BR />Abortions have been taking place for many years — even centuries. Previously, most were backstreet abortions, with all the attendant health risks and dangers for the woman. More recently, women from here have had to make lonely and traumatic journeys across the water to access abortion, often incurring significant financial cost. More importantly, they frequently had to travel without the family support and emotional solidarity they would have had if they could access the same healthcare here at home. In this technological age, women and girls have been accessing abortion pills on the internet and taking them without medical supervision. That is an unacceptable situation, and that is where the DUP wants to bring us back to. They are entitled, of course, to do that.”
“We do not support abortion on grounds of non-fatal foetal abnormality. Our party policy on that issue is absolutely crystal clear. That is what our party members voted for, and it has nothing to do with populism or opportunism. <BR /> <BR />The motion proposed by the DUP today is a rejection of any legislation that would permit abortion here under any circumstances. Sinn Féin will not support that position; if our amendment falls, we will vote against the DUP motion.”
“Our party members clearly expressed a view at our ard-fheis in 2018 that previous legislation on abortion, North and South, was failing women on this island, and also that it was incompatible with human rights law. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, there is a mood out in society that is demanding changes to abortion law, and that same mood exists within Sinn Féin. That is not to say that we support the introduction of the British Abortion Act 1967 here in the North; we do not. Our position is clear and consistent. Sinn Féin supports the introduction of termination of pregnancy only in very clearly defined circumstances. Abortion should be available where a woman's life, health or mental health is at risk; in cases of fatal foetal abnormality; and in cases where pregnancy has occurred as a result of rape, incest or sexual abuse.”
“From the outset, I want to say that Sinn Féin will oppose the DUP motion, which is aimed at denying women access to their reproductive rights. I stand here as a member of the Health Committee to talk about an issue that relates to women's health, and I appreciate that we are discussing a very emotive and contentious issue, with very strongly held views on all sides of the debate. It is important that respect is shown to all views in this debate. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin has a very clear view on the issue of abortion, and I want to set out our position so that there is no ambiguity or misunderstanding about where we stand. Sinn Féin is an entirely democratic political party, and our policies on all issues are decided at our ard-fheiseanna on an annual basis by our party membership.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the regulations and the easing of the restrictions, but that must all be part of an overall strategy of testing, tracing and isolating the virus.”
“There has not been one death in a care home in South Korea, despite the fact that it is only a two-hour flight from Wuhan, where the virus is alleged to have originated. <BR /> <BR />Where there have been localised outbreaks or clusters, those countries have been able to move in and initiate a localised lockdown. If we had that system here, we could do the same. The difficulty for all of us and for society in general is that there is no sign that the virus will just evaporate and disappear into thin air. It is here for the foreseeable future and probably until such times as we get a vaccine. Therefore, we must have the proper strategy in place to deal with further outbreaks. The messaging from the Executive must be crystal clear.”
“That is not the message that needs to go out. <BR /> <BR />We need to be clear that the regulations that we are discussing today are part of a slow easing of the restrictions. Further easing of restrictions can take place only when we have a proper system for testing, tracing and isolating. You see, a complete lockdown is not a necessity. It might have been initially here and in other countries that were not prepared for the pandemic. However, some countries, particularly those in Asia that had experience of SARS, MERS, swine flu, avian flu and so on, were prepared. They were ready for testing, they were ready for tracing, and they had robust systems in place to do all that. For example, South Korea, which has a population of 55 million, has seen fewer than 300 deaths.”
“However, we know the difficult circumstances in which we live at the minute. <BR /> <BR />The messaging has not been helped. Regardless of the distance between here and our neighbouring island, we are all very much aware of what has happened over there. The publicity around Mr Cummings and so on over the past number of weeks helps only to muddy the water. People do not get a clear indication of what the actual message is or feel that there are laws for some people and different laws for others. Of course, the British Government have themselves been responsible for a lot of that mixed messaging. From the outset of the pandemic, their positioning has been pretty shambolic. Over the past number of days, we have seen scenes of beaches across the water that have been packed like Benidorm in August. People have been packed in like sardines.”
“It has been a tough eight or 10 weeks; I am not sure exactly how long it has been since we moved into the lockdown. <BR /> <BR />I must say, however, that we are moving into a dangerous period. There is a perception in some quarters that the danger has passed, that the trajectory is one way and one way only and that we are moving completely out of lockdown. We heard the junior Minister talking about crowds of young people on Ballygally beach. This morning, I heard Andrew Muir on Radio Ulster describing similar scenes in Crawfordsburn and Helen's Bay. That type of behaviour, particularly among young people, has been replicated in areas across the North. I suppose that, if we were all young lads and young girls again, we would want to be out enjoying ourselves. That is a given.”
“The remarks that I will make relate to the regulations that have been introduced. Of course, we have seen the opening up of places of worship for marriages where one party is terminally ill; the opening of recycling centres and garden centres; the opening of churches for private worship and what have been commonly referred to as "drive-in ceremonies"; and other outdoor activities and gatherings subject to certain restrictions. Other relaxations will also take place, including for drive-in cinemas and concerts, although those are not covered by today's motions. Of course, yesterday, we heard the announcement of a date for the potential opening of hotels, caravan parks and so on next month. All that is welcome. Most people welcome the relaxation.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the moves that have been made to ease the restrictions, and I look forward to other restrictions being eased but not until the proper criteria are met to save lives and protect our citizens.”
“If agency staff are moving about from home to home, if that does not increase the risk of infection, I do not know what does. It is no coincidence that there has been quite a significant outbreak of COVID-19 among staff in Muckamore Abbey. To me, it is no coincidence that a number of the agency staff there moved from a care home in Belfast that was seriously affected by COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />In the name of humanity, I am calling on the Department of Health, the Public Health Agency and the regulator of care homes, the RQIA, to get their act together and to put a focus on our care homes that has been absent thus far. I stand with the Human Rights Commissioner and the Commissioner for Older People who are both on the public record saying that not enough has been done to protect our frail, vulnerable and elderly population.”
“The tracking research into the behaviour of the virus in six London care homes found that, in some cases, workers who transmitted coronavirus had been drafted in to cover for care home staff who were self-isolating, expressly to prevent the vulnerable people that they look after from becoming infected. <BR /> <BR />Why is that important here? It is important here because agency workers here are also moving about from care home to care home. I spoke yesterday to a senior manager from a number of care homes who is extremely worried about this. In some cases, care homes have refused to take on agency workers, but, as a result, their own staff are becoming overworked and overstressed. They are now reaching a stage where they are going to have to consider bringing in agency staff.”
“I do not know if we will have the proper infrastructure in place that will allow us to ease the regulations that are being discussed. <BR /> <BR />Moving on to the situation in care homes, despite the fact that we knew that care homes were being impacted disproportionately by the virus, little, if nothing, was done to protect the frail and the elderly in those settings. Shortages of PPE and a lack of testing have been well-documented. In London, research that used genome tracking found that temporary care home workers unwittingly transmitted COVID-19 between care homes as cases surged.”
“We are now told by the Minister that, actually, only 58 people have been trained to carry out contact tracing. Although we know that contact tracing happened at the start of the outbreak, we do not know how many were involved, but if only 58 people have been trained in contact tracing, it seems to be totally inadequate. We have had months to get contact tracing right. <BR /> <BR />As things stand —”
“— but we need to learn from previous mistakes and to make sure that we do not repeat them. <BR /> <BR />Do we have a system for contact tracing in place? On 16 April, the chief executive of the PHA told the Committee — Jim Wells mentioned this when he asked the Health Minister a question last week at the Ad Hoc Committee — that 500 people had been recruited and were being trained to carry out contact tracing. Three weeks later, on 7 May, when she again gave evidence to the Committee, following a question from me, the chief executive admitted that 500 people were not being trained. So, 500 people had not been recruited and 500 people were not being trained, so why did she feel that she could come to the Committee to give that evidence in the first place?”
“We do not know who the scientists were who offered the advice, and that is not acceptable. <BR /> <BR />Last Thursday, three eminent experts gave evidence to the Committee for Health. Professor Anthony Costello totally dismissed and disagreed with the assertion that the decision to end community testing and contact tracing could have been based on sound public health considerations. Professor Costello's view chimes with the World Health Organization's advice and the best international practice. Some will say, "Don't look back, let's move forward" and that is fair enough. I am not here to apportion blame —”
“Of course, the legislation is related to the situation on the ground. When discussing relaxation measures, it is important that we know what has to happen and what criteria have to be met. <BR /> <BR />There are still serious problems with the rate of transmission in care homes, as well as concern about the infrastructure being put in place to carry out contact tracing. So, let me deal with contact tracing first. On March 12, a decision was taken in London to end contact tracing. For some reason, the same decision was taken here, even though the two situations and the two contexts were entirely different. We are told that the decision here was made on the basis of scientific advice from experts in the field and sound public health considerations. However, we could not interrogate that advice. It is secret; it is not transparent.”
“I have to express serious concerns about the Health Department being able to meet those criteria.”
“Many will say that the South Koreans had experience of dealing with previous viruses, such as SARS and MERS, so they were much more prepared than we were. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the weakness of our preparations was exposed in October 2016 by Exercise Cygnus, a pandemic simulation, and the necessary remedial steps were not taken. If anything, the state of preparedness has worsened since 2016 as a direct result of underfunding to the NHS and public health infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />What needs to happen next? The World Health Organization, as quoted in the Executive document, is quite clear:”
“Not one of those deaths was in a care home. <BR /> <BR />The Health and Social Care Committee at Westminster heard recently from a research fellow at the London School of Economics that anyone in a care home in South Korea with suspected COVID-19 was immediately isolated and, if they tested positive, removed to a quarantine centre or hospital. She finished her evidence by saying that not a single person has died from COVID-19 in a South Korean care home. Contrast that with here, with a population of just 1·8 million, where we have had around 500 deaths, depending on which data you read. Almost half those deaths have been among the frail and the elderly in care homes. Of course, the South Koreans were prepared for the virus, and we were not.”
“There has been quite a lot of backslapping here by people who believe that we have done well in tackling the virus. That may well be true in comparison with our neighbouring island, Italy or Spain. However, let us look at South Korea, a country with a population of 51 million. Seoul, the capital city, is only a two-hour flight from Wuhan, where the virus is alleged to have started. The South Koreans did not have the same restrictive lockdown that we are experiencing. They did, however, have a first-class system for carrying out widespread community testing and contact tracing. They tested and traced the virus until they had it under control. Despite some new clusters, the South Koreans have managed to keep it in check. There have been only 263 deaths, and not one of those deaths was in a care home.”
“Of course, it is right that we should follow the guidance of the World Health Organization, given that it has the most experience in fighting previous epidemics, such as SARS, MERS and Ebola. More importantly, it is those countries that closely followed World Health Organization advice that have been most successful in controlling the spread of COVID-19.”
“Therefore, I commend the Executive for closely following the advice of the World Health Organization when setting out their guiding principles for considering whether a specific restriction or requirement should be retained, withdrawn or modified. Those principles are clear and easily understood.”
“The last time I spoke on the regulations, I was clear that, as a political representative, in normal circumstances, I would never want to introduce restrictions of people's freedom of movement in the way that the regulations do. However, as we all know, we live in extraordinary times, and, even in the past four weeks, the context has shifted slightly. I have no doubt that lives have been saved as a result of the measures that were implemented, and I welcome the fact that there has been some relaxation of the restrictions on some outdoor activities. It is clear from 'Executive Approach to Decision-making' what needs to happen before there is further easing of restrictions. For now, the focus must be on a strategy to minimise harm from the ill-advised relaxation of physical distancing in ways that will trigger further epidemic spikes.”
“I acknowledge what the deputy First Minister and, indeed, the First Minister said earlier about the pilot scheme for tracing, and that it is going to be ramped up. Those countries that have been most successful in combating the virus have followed the testing, tracing and isolating model. However, we are starting from a very low base indeed. Is the Minister confident that testing and tracing can be ramped up to the extent that will allow us to ease the restrictions in the foreseeable future?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis na hAirí as ucht a ráitis. I welcome the focus that the strategy places on tracing, testing and isolation. The World Health Organization has advised consistently that every single suspected case should be tested and all possible contacts traced. Can the Minister outline how that can be taken forward in an effective way, given the limitations that there have been on testing and tracing, which have meant that not every single suspected case has been tested?”
“Whether health, economic or environmental, these crises will impact everyone on this island and they are best addressed together. It is important, therefore, that NISRA works closely with colleagues in the South in the Central Statistics Office to ensure that detailed statistics for the island of Ireland can be produced as the outworking of each census, on either side of the border, in 2021.”
“That question, unlike others, will not be mandatory, but it will help to improve the visibility, recognition and rights of those in our society who have suffered so much neglect, discrimination and prejudice in the past. <BR /> <BR />Census 2021 will not just be important for measuring the change that has already occurred, but as a benchmark for the change that we will see in the decade ahead. We are facing significant changes in the immediate and short term, in the context of Brexit, the global pandemic that is COVID-19, and the global climate crisis, all of which pose serious risks and challenges that will change society. Significantly, it is getting increasingly difficult to ignore the reality that those challenges require all-Ireland solutions and approaches.”
“Of course, the option to complete the census in Irish, as well as Ulster Scots, is an important recognition of the communities who live and work through their own language. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the inclusion of a number of new questions in the census. The question on long-term health conditions will now include an option on autism and Asperger's syndrome, allowing the needs of those with autism and Asperger's syndrome to be better identified and to provide more planned support and interventions. The need to establish the uptake of renewable energy sources is also helpful in our contributions to addressing the existential climate crisis facing the planet. I also welcome the question for adults on sexual orientation.”
“Census is of great importance in gathering the necessary information to understand the needs of the population living in this part of the island. Understanding need is vital to us as political representatives in developing policy and in planning and delivering public services for society. The North of Ireland is becoming more and more diverse, and, as a society, it is important to understand and respond to the changing needs of the whole community. How the census is conducted and the information that it seeks to gather indicates just how diverse our society has become. I welcome the fact that translated booklets on how to complete the census will be provided in many different languages.”
“I am talking about well-respected experts in their field, such as Gabriel Scally, who has been commentating regularly in the media and is an expert in public health. We need that combination of measures: of testing, widespread community testing and contact tracing, and then, isolation and social distancing. Until then, these restrictions will continue to save lives and that must be everyone's priority.”
“<BR /> <BR />On 12 March, the British Government and Public Health England decided to end all contact tracing, and a similar decision was taken here. Yet the countries that have been most successful at combating this virus used that combination of measures: testing, tracing, isolating and social distancing. <BR /> <BR />I understand that many feel apprehensive about the severity of the restrictions being placed on society. However, before we begin to ease these restrictions, we have to ensure that we build the capacity to continue to fight this virus. If we do not know where it is through community testing and contact tracing, how are we going to be able to fight it? There have been many commentators — and I am not talking about barroom commentators, or barroom epidemiologists or experts in bars on infectious diseases.”
“We need to ensure that front-line workers have the PPE that they need to carry out their vital work in a way that protects patients, their families and themselves. We need to carry out proper contact tracing. Test, trace, isolate. The first of three criteria set out by the World Health Organization for lifting the restrictions is that transmission is controlled. The second is that the capacities are in place to detect, test, isolate and treat very case; and to trace every contact. The third is that outbreak risks are minimised in special settings such as health facilities, nursing homes and anywhere where there are groups of vulnerable people. We need to build our capacity to meet World Health Organization criteria before we ease restrictions.”
“Ceasing the restrictions that facilitate social distancing at this time would be, in my view, irresponsible. <BR /> <BR />The economic challenges that we face as a society will undoubtedly be huge as a result of this global pandemic, and we will need to support workers and business to rebuild in the time ahead. However, we need to keep our eye on the ball. This is a public health crisis, first and foremost. Early, decisive action, as recommended by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control and by the World Health Organization, such as closures and the cancellation of sporting and other events, has been effective, but we still face challenges. <BR /> <BR />We need to increase testing in the community and in vulnerable settings such as care homes.”
“From a political perspective, I would never want to introduce such restrictions on people's freedom of movement. However, as many colleagues have stated, we are living in extraordinary times. <BR /> <BR />On a personal level, as someone with young children — two daughters, aged eight and four — we are involved in the GAA as a family, we enjoy our walks on the beaches and in our parks and forest parks, and the idea of having to continue to stay at home as the evenings get brighter brings many challenges. However, those challenges pale in comparison with the challenges that our healthcare workers currently face, and would face to an even greater extent if we were to relax the restrictions now. We are told that we are in the surge period.”
“Will the Minister give us his assessment of the reforms and whether they have been effective in preventing any further incidents of illegal dumping?”
“I come to the last point: when Ronnie Armour, the director of prisons, was in front of the Committee recently, he spoke about his emphasis now being on rehabilitation in the prisons. That is something we need to place emphasis on as well.”
“I thank the Member for that. Her point is well made. The evidence is clear: the prisons are full of, mainly, people from disadvantaged areas. Large percentages of the prison population are involved in self-harming or substance abuse and have suicidal tendencies or mental health problems. We need to deal with all those issues that lead to people going to prison. <BR /> <BR />I am glad to welcome the pilots that are, and will be, taking place on problem-solving courts, which deal with addiction and mental health. The aim is to do exactly what it says on the tin: to solve the problems that bring people before the courts. It means that people with mental health or addiction issues or who persistently reoffend can get help with those issues, rather than constantly going into and coming back out of prison, like a revolving door.”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. I agree wholeheartedly; we are never going to eradicate crime completely from society. We need to get everyone on an equal footing and give everybody the best start in life that we can. Children should not be punished because they grew up in poverty or had parents who had bad or no parenting skills or because those parents were addicted to drugs or alcohol. We need to do what is best for the greatest number of people in society.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we are going to talk about collaboration, we must recognise that it is across many spectrums. We have to deal with poverty. Education has to be beefed up. The criminal justice system has a role. The Housing Executive has a role. Collaboration is the name of the game.”
“Perhaps there would have been a different outcome; perhaps there would not have been a man lying bleeding to death on the streets of Glasgow. <BR /> <BR />Just imagine the situation here of a family living in poverty — living in a cold, damp, mouldy house; the children suffering from respiratory illnesses, such as bronchitis or asthma, and that illness being exacerbated by the conditions in which they live. As a result, the children become ill more frequently. That leads to longer absences from school. They continue to fall behind in school and do not catch up. What happens then? Again, the evidence shows that children who leave school without qualifications are not only likely to end up with chronic illnesses but are more likely to end up in the criminal justice system.”
“He was doing that because the evidence shows that children who are breastfed are more likely to develop a strong bond and relationship with their mothers. It is also beneficial to mothers in building relationships with their children. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that most Members are now familiar with the term "adverse childhood experiences" (ACE). The evidence shows that children who have suffered a number of adverse childhood experiences are more likely to end up in the criminal justice system. We need to deal with those issues. It is not just for the Justice Minister to deal with them. Take, for example, the particular case that I just outlined and the different agencies and statutory bodies that could have intervened at different stages, early in that person's life.”
“The person who was responsible was identified and later sentenced to life imprisonment for murder. <BR /> <BR />The presentation was about tracing back the life of the perpetrator, the person who had murdered an innocent man in the street. He was someone who had frequently come to the attention of the police, and was often before the courts, sometimes on charges that related to violence. He had left school without any educational qualifications. He came from a dysfunctional family. His parents were addicts of either drugs or alcohol, and he had been in and out of care as a young child. <BR /> <BR />The police officer was leaving the Policing Board in Belfast to fly to London, to attend a conference on breastfeeding, to give exactly the same presentation. Why was he doing that?”
“Early intervention is vital if we are serious about tackling the root causes of crime. When I was a member of the Policing Board, one of the most memorable and powerful presentations that we received was from an officer from Police Scotland. He opened the presentation with a short piece of CCTV footage. It was quite grainy, as CCTV footage often is. It showed a fight on a Glasgow street, with maybe 10 or 12 people involved in it. A taxi pulled up and someone disembarked from it — someone who had absolutely nothing to do with the row that was taking place. One of those who were involved in the row went over and, in the CCTV footage, appeared to punch that person in the side. As it turned out, he had not punched him; he had stabbed him. That man died.”
“However, legislation, on its own, is not a panacea for domestic violence. There needs to be better education and greater cultural change, among the male population in particular, before we will make inroads on that scourge of society.”
“It is clear from the evidence that legislation can and does have an impact on behaviours. If you want an example of that, you need just to look to the laws on the wearing of seat belts and on smoking in public places. Of course, one of the most eagerly awaited pieces of legislation will come before the Assembly shortly in the form of the domestic abuse Bill, and I welcome the advent of that Bill. At this stage, I should pay tribute to the previous Justice Minister, Claire Sugden, who did much of the heavy lifting on the issue but, unfortunately, did not get enough time to see it through to its conclusion.”
“I will start again. I do not doubt that everyone in here, from whatever background or party, would like to see a decrease in all crime, particularly violent crime, and a reduction in reoffending. That having been said, there will be disagreement among us about how that can be achieved. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister of Justice to the debate today. I agree totally with what Dolores Kelly said in her contribution: the Justice Minister cannot solve the issue of crime or violent crime. In fact, she, the police and the whole criminal justice system cannot deal with that issue. Collaboration among all Departments is needed. <BR /> <BR />There are three principal ways of making inroads into preventing crime and reoffending: the use of legislation; early intervention; and rehabilitation. I will deal first with legislation.”