Joanne Bunting
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Their input was instrumental in shaping the Bill that the Assembly will shortly be invited to pass. <BR /> <BR />For those affected by the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and related pathways and practices, the process has taken too long, but we can be pleased that we got there, for the victims' sakes.”
“It is still cruel, disheartening and difficult to fully comprehend. I hope that the experiences of the many women who were affected by those institutions and practices will serve as a challenge to us all.”
“We thank all who participated in the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum. We know that that has not always been an easy space, but we hope that, today, they can reflect on all their efforts with pride.”
“<BR /> <BR />To victims and survivors considering whether to engage with the redress service, I send an unequivocal message: the scheme exists because your experiences matter, and you need not face the process alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the experience did not end with the institution itself; rather, for the victims and survivors — those women and children — the period has been a thread of pain that has woven its way through their entire lives.”
“It is not an exaggeration to say that today is a momentous day. It is an honour and a privilege for me to move the Final Stage of this important legislation on behalf of the First Minister and the deputy first Minister, junior Minister Reilly and, indeed, the Executive.”
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“The officials outlined the role of the Government Actuary's Department in the process, including advising the Department. We were told that its advice had five broad conclusions: that the current notional portfolio and period of investment of 43 years remain appropriate; that RPI is no longer suitable as an appropriate index for damage inflation; that the standard adjustment of 0·75% for tax investment cost is no longer appropriate; that the standard adjustment of 0·5% for the further margin remains appropriate; and, finally, that a single-rate mechanism, rather than one that varies by term or, indeed, another factor, remains appropriate. At that same meeting, the Committee agreed unanimously that it was content with the proposal for the statutory rule. I quote from the minutes:”
“Additionally, we were told that the rationale for the change to using annual weekly earnings as a measure used in allowing for the impact of inflation was based on advice from the Government Actuary's Department. <BR /> <BR />After the oral evidence session with the Department, the Committee agreed to write to the Department to emphasise that the Committee does support the principle of 100% compensation, which was never in question; to ask for clarification on the modification of the standard adjustment from 0·75% to 1·25%; and to ask for more information on impact assessments, as recommended by the predecessor Justice Committee. The Committee then scheduled another oral evidence session, this time with officials from the Government Actuary's Department, and that took place at the meeting on 30 May 2024.”
“The officials provided background information on the proposals for the rule and lots of detailed information on the methodology used for setting the rate, including the rationale for using that methodology. The Committee was advised that the change from using the retail price index was necessary because the way that the retail price index is calculated is due to change in 2030 and that, as a result, it was no longer an appropriate method to use. <BR /> <BR />Many respondents to the consultation stipulated their preference for a CPI+ model. We were advised that using a CPI+ model was not an option at this time because the current legislation does not allow for that. However, officials did state that there is a commitment to review the legislation before the next review of the discount rate in order to:”
“In the interests of openness and transparency, as I informed all Members in a letter issued last Friday, the Committee agreed to publish on its website the documentation that it considered when scrutinising the statutory rule, alongside the Hansard transcripts of the relevant evidence sessions. <BR /> <BR />The Committee was first informed of the Department's intention to propose the rule at its meeting on 25 April 2024. The Committee was not content for it to proceed based solely on the information that we had received at that time. As a result, we agreed to schedule an oral evidence session with officials from the Department of Justice. That oral evidence session took place on 16 May 2024.”
“As Chairperson of the Committee for Justice, I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister outlined, the draft statutory rule will make changes to the statutory methodology by which the Government Actuary has to set the personal injury discount rate for Northern Ireland. The Committee took its time to scrutinise the proposal for the statutory rule. In addition to considering a number of papers from the Department of Justice, the Committee scheduled two oral evidence sessions and received a number of items of correspondence from stakeholders.”
“I did not say that the motion was virtue signalling. I said that when addressing the issue, it was important not to virtue signal but to make points of substance. That was my point.”
“— where someone is a victim of crime, they must have confidence that the perpetrator will be caught and put through the system, so the parameters around hate must be robust, narrow and clearly defined.”
“<BR /> <BR />The key for me is always that, in circumstances —”
“<BR /> <BR />With regard to the private dwelling defence, legitimate concerns have been raised about malicious communications by individuals in the course of private conversations online or on forms of social media. Indeed, I presented a petition to the House on the malignance of that problem. We believe that a comprehensive approach to tackling online harm should be the starting point for tackling this wrongdoing. Moreover, we must not create a hierarchy of victims, as can often result from intersectionality, and, rather, should ensure that justice is blind and even-handed for all. We must take care to ensure that any such law promotes good relations between protected groups and does not pit them against each other by facilitating proceedings against legitimate behaviour without reasonable cause.”
“Free speech and civil liberties are no small matter in our value system. There is no right not to be offended. If we are only to express views that are popular and mainstream, freedom is merely a concept and we will have cancelled diversity of thought. We must preserve the ability to discuss and debate at all costs, because abuse and opinion are not the same as crime. Discussion and debate around issues is integral to freedom of expression, speech, religion and conscience and, regardless of whether they take place in public or private settings, they are worthy of protection. We must be clear how exactly private conversations, including in the home, can and will be protected.”
“Similarly, the Law Society of Scotland warned:”
“It is often inordinately difficult to strike the right balance, and we must recognise that the resultant outworking and handling can lead to significant damage to the public's confidence in not just this place but the rule of law, the PSNI and the justice system itself. Hence, the importance of not virtue signalling or point-scoring. Instead, we must handle with care. We have seen the quagmires created elsewhere by ill-considered legislation on these matters and it is imperative to learn, not repeat the mistakes, and heed the warnings. <BR /> <BR />Scotland should serve as an example enough of the potential perils and pitfalls. Calum Steele, the general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation, expressed concern over the Scottish Bill even as it passed through Parliament. He said:”
“I will not just at the minute, Matthew. Let me make my point. <BR /> <BR />For example, already there is considerable debate around the subjects of privacy, freedom of expression, the private dwelling defence, the role and powers of the PSNI — who must absolutely not be turned into the thought police — the rights of women, how to combat keyboard warriors and, extremely importantly, how a private conversation may be defined. Bear in mind the issue that we will ultimately debate will be criminal thresholds. <BR /> <BR />The motion references finding the balance between competing rights. Surely, everybody in the House with a scintilla of wit and common sense will recognise that that is much more easily said than done.”
“Certainly, the issues that have been mooted and recommended to be included in a Bill are complex and often emotive, divisive and controversial within our society.”
“Whilst the Minister may have stated that we are not creating new crimes, it is difficult at this point to see how we would not be, although that will, of course, become clearer with the text of any forthcoming Bill. <BR /> <BR />In considering a viable working definition of hate crime in Northern Ireland, we should be mindful that, in many areas, weaknesses with existing legislation have been laid bare in poor enforcement, excessive application and a lack of awareness of, or unwillingness to, utilise current tools. We must keep in mind that what may, initially and in principle, appear straightforward will likely not actually be so once we begin to discuss and take forward the practicalities. As ever, many of these matters around proposed hate crime are not clear-cut.”
“From the outset, let me state that abuse of a person, physically or verbally, because of a protected characteristic is serious and on the increase. We in the DUP are clear that crimes against persons due to their race, religion, disability, sexuality, gender or age are totally unacceptable. Frankly, I take the view that all such abuse, aimed at anybody, protected or not, is unacceptable. For me, the issue is less about whether a Bill is stand-alone, but rather that whatever is eventually brought and passed needs to be right and of merit and value. At present, hate is recorded at the perception of the claimant and is considered to be an aggravating factor in other crimes, rather than a crime in itself.”
“Also, I trust that the ruling will cause the Minister and her Department to have pause over their custom of bringing policy matters at Consideration Stage rather than in the Bill as drafted, when things such as this can occur even without that risk.”
“This is a concerning situation, which, unfortunately, has resulted in reputational damage for the Minister, her Department and, indeed, the House. There were significant unintended consequences that were missed, despite all our collective procedures, because, in the last mandate, this institution was rushed and sacrificed quality for quantity. Did the officials in the Departmental Solicitor's Office (DSO) not know the potential ramifications? Did they not understand, or did they mislead? Whichever way, I am sure the Minister will agree that this is not a good outcome. Moreover, how will this change the mindset of her Department with regard to how it considers and brings legislation? What are the lessons to be learned?”
“— the Health and Justice Ministers, or at the highest strategic levels within their Departments, around their plans for collaborative working.”
“It is hard, it is unpleasant and it may be unpopular, but it is the job that we were elected to do. <BR /> <BR />Despite repeatedly asking, I have not been able to ascertain the detail of areas for discussion between —”
“I will not. <BR /> <BR />The Department of Justice's flexibility is extremely limited and the bulk of its Budget is allocated to inescapable pressures but it has sacrificed for Health. The justice system is already picking up the pressures from the Department of Health until it is almost at breaking point itself. At the Committee recently, we heard from the Chief Constable that the PSNI is attending 500 calls a week on behalf of the Ambulance Service. Let there be no doubt that people are being put through justice services when they should be in healthcare. The answer lies not in perpetually throwing more and more money but in taking decisions and making tough choices. Load the front lines and do away with bureaucracy and a top-heavy system of multiple layers of management.”
“Not so the UUP, who would soak up every additional penny and more besides. For years, the Department of Health has absorbed half of Northern Ireland's Budget, yet currently the position in the health service is worse and spiralling — not, of course, through any fault of those on the front line. The cry for £1 billion "just to stand still" is absurd. Health has already had an additional £1 billion over two years. Nobody else has had such a luxury.”
“Speaking in my private capacity, as I stated, I find it difficult to pass comment on the Budget other than in generalities, given that, in an unconventional move, we are faced with a Budget debate prior to being briefed on it by our home Departments. However, in the throes of the discourse surrounding it for several weeks, one thing has become abundantly clear: the debate around Northern Ireland's Budget cannot and must not be focused around one Department alone. <BR /> <BR />Nobody can manage on the allocation that they have been given. That is why we in the DUP press for a review of the funding system for Northern Ireland. However, everybody else knuckled down with what they had, determined to work through it and do the best they could, hoping for something in monitoring rounds.”
“However, it should be clear from my remarks that the areas of the justice system not, in some way, impacted by the current financial situation are negligible.”
“He informed us that, since 2010, the PSNI budget has decreased in real terms by 30%. Again, that is an unsustainable situation. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has not yet had the opportunity to undertake in-depth scrutiny of the Department's budget or financial position for 2024-25 because we have not yet received a detailed briefing on it. Hopefully, that situation will be rectified during the Committee's forthcoming briefing.”
“The Probation Board for Northern Ireland (PBNI) also raised concerns about the impact that funding constraints will have on the delivery of its services. <BR /> <BR />When the Chief Constable briefed the Committee, the first thing that he spoke about was the PSNI's precarious financial position. He described it as:”
“It is intolerable that victims of crime suffer because of the dire financial situation that we are in. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned legal aid spend in my opening remarks. During an evidence session with the Law Society and the Bar of Northern Ireland, members were told that slowing down the payment of legal aid fees as a budget management tool has forced professionals to leave the Bar or to shift from doing legal aid work. We were informed that that disproportionately affects younger professionals and women and that it could close firms and threaten access to justice for many across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />When the Lady Chief Justice briefed the Committee, she stated, in reference to the Department's budget:”
“<BR /> <BR />Victims of crime and the services that they receive are also being impacted on by financial constraints. The Committee heard from the Commissioner Designate for Victims of Crime, who stated:”
“Given the pressures on the Prison Service, which I will come to, such a situation is unsustainable. <BR /> <BR />During an evidence session with Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI), the Committee was told that its budget had decreased by almost 10% in 10 years. We were told that if CJINI's budget remains similar to what it is at present, it will be unable to conduct a prison inspection in 2025. That is most concerning, given the continuing increase in the prison population, concurrent with ongoing issues with the numbers of prison officers. As I said during a debate on the Budget Bill, current staffing levels are for a population of 1,450 prisoners, but there are around 1,900 people in custody, and that number continues to rise.”
“The justice system used to be the service of last resort, but, now, it is all too often becoming the first. We regularly hear that police officers spend inordinate amounts of time dealing with those facing mental health issues. Those people would be better served by mental health professionals, but it is often the police that are called. Those in crisis deserve better, and the police officers deserve better. We must work collaboratively to have any chance of addressing such issues. <BR /> <BR />When giving oral evidence to the Justice Committee, the then permanent secretary Richard Pengelly said:”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee has held many oral evidence sessions with various directorates in the Department, as well as with a number of key justice organisations. Difficulties with the Department's challenging budgetary position were a consistent theme. As I have said during previous financial debates, the majority of the Department's budget is demand-led, taken up by the PSNI, the Prison Service, the Courts and Tribunals Service and legal aid. As a result, there is very little, if any, scope to reduce spend without impacting severely on the delivery of vital services. In fact, owing to cuts across the board, justice sector organisations are increasingly providing more and more vital services, but they are doing so with fewer and fewer resources.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak as Chairman of the Justice Committee, and I declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />The fact that we are discussing a one-year Budget will come as a disappointment to many. Since our return, we have heard numerous calls for multi-year Budgets. It is also disappointing that, since we have not yet received a detailed briefing, the Committee has not had the opportunity to undertake in-depth scrutiny of the Department's budget or financial position for 2024-25. I am therefore not able to get into the detail to the extent that I would wish, and my remarks are necessarily based on broad parameters.”
“Removing an easily accessible college when there is insufficient space to accommodate those classes in other campuses is appalling, short-sighted, regressive and detrimental to Northern Ireland plc. There is an onus on the Department to step up and step in and on Belfast Met's governing body to rethink and find another way. The campus must not close. I urge the Minister to intervene and assist.”
“It cannot be undone, and it will be all the more difficult to engage those who felt that school did not work for them but thrived in a different learning environment. <BR /> <BR />As a result of underfunding, Belfast Met has been forced to consider something radical, but at what long-term cost and damage? It is in the interests of Northern Ireland to allow Castlereagh the opportunity to grow and contribute. People in the east deserve their opportunity to upskill and secure a good job. <BR /> <BR />Castlereagh college has had a long and illustrious history of bringing back to education those who were disenfranchised from it at school. The college, through its different way of learning, has given many young people opportunities. If our economy is to grow, the teaching of skills is essential to that growth.”
“I am tired of the imbalance and of the mentality towards my part of the city that it will be OK, that it will sustain or that it is fine to be perpetually at the bottom of the pile in Belfast. That is what the statistics bear out. No. East Belfast can absorb only so much, and we are starting to see the consequences of that attitude. <BR /> <BR />I am led to believe, although it has not yet been verified, that there were around 1,200 responses to the consultation, with the vast majority expressing a desire for the campus to remain. What now? What are the next steps? Was there a plan B, or was the plan always closure? If the consultation was not a mere cosmetic exercise and the response, apparently, was clear, what does the governing body do now? Once the college is closed, there is no going back.”
“I need not demonstrate the importance of education and pathways other than academia. We all concur on that, so we must not stand idly by when opportunities for those who have disengaged from traditional forms of education and who left educationally disenfranchised after their time in school are lost. <BR /> <BR />We must not ignore the location of the facility or the demographic of the area in which it is placed. Without question, the people most affected by the closure and by the loss of the economic benefits gained by the locale from having the facility will be working-class Protestants. Neither Belfast Met nor the Department can merely skip over the proposal's adverse impact on the Protestant/unionist/loyalist (PUL) community, nor would they if it affected other areas of the city.”
“Yet, faced with such facts, Belfast Met is moving to shut down an avenue for such boys to access education in their heartland and in an environment where, for many decades, thousands of boys have been proven to thrive. <BR /> <BR />On issues around attainment, this would never be allowed to happen in the west of the city — it would not even be countenanced as an option — so why is it permissible for the east? Are those in deprivation in the east to lose another avenue to succeed and educate themselves out of it? Significant numbers of people and areas in East Belfast feature in indices of deprivation. The closure of places like the Castlereagh campus will adversely and severely impact people's ability to educate themselves out of poverty, poverty that is multigenerational. Are we to permit further harm to those who are underprivileged?”
“Decision makers are well aware of the impact of such measures and proposals, including the consequences for enrolment numbers of the surrounding uncertainty, which can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. <BR /> <BR />What message does all this send to young people and parents in East Belfast about the value of education and learning and its prioritisation in the east of the city? What signal does it send about their value and the opportunities afforded to them? In the past 24 years, at least seven educational reports have been written, each concluding on or concerning the educational under-attainment of working-class Protestants, particularly boys.”
“The Glider may well have a dedicated service to Queens Road and the Titanic campus, but a traveller from the east of the city must reach the Upper Newtownards Road first, and the park-and-ride at Dundonald is already at capacity. Castlereagh college has the easiest access of all four Met colleges and benefits from on-site car parking, a considerable advantage to students and staff alike. <BR /> <BR />When considering the courses moved from Castlereagh to other sites — incidentally, some of Belfast Met's most popular courses — it is not a leap to ponder whether Belfast Met has deliberately run down its Castlereagh campus to achieve this outcome. That question is on the lips of many who have spoken to me, since 75% of joinery courses and all science and plastering courses have moved to the Titanic campus.”
“<BR /> <BR />Forcing people from the east to travel further distances or face a parking charge of £12 per day at the Titanic campus, which is prohibitive for many, could prevent some people's access to learning altogether. Accessibility is a significant issue. Queens Road is already notorious for traffic problems during rush hour, and those would be exacerbated by additional numbers of students. Public transport may well be suggested as the solution. However, it has long been recognised that public transportation outwith the city centre is not easy. Those familiar with south and east Belfast will know that going "down" and "in" is fine but that going "across" is not so fine.”
“What message does it send to inward investors? Does this look like a Northern Ireland that is open for business and seeking to upskill the workforce for potential employers? <BR /> <BR />In addition, with the potential closure, Belfast Met will have further stripped this side of the Lagan of educational facilities. East Belfast has already lost the Tower Street campus, Rupert Stanley College and the Dundonald government training centre, on top of the loss of several secondary schools. By the way, since its opening, Belfast Met has flagged the Titanic campus as a city centre campus. Now, it seeks to rebrand the campus as an east Belfast location.”
“It must be pointed out that the Castlereagh campus is the all-island centre of excellence in information technology (IT) and is still growing exponentially. The proposal, for the sake of £10 million, flies in the face of the Northern Ireland Executive's plans to grow our economy and close the skills gap. It runs entirely contrary to the 10X Economy strategy that was hailed by key business and educational leaders. <BR /> <BR />We seek to move away from the prevalence of and dependence on public-sector employment to having a better balance with increased employment in the private sector, increased inward investment and increased skills but with one less college. It is folly. How can our economy grow when we shut down the very places in which skills are taught? We do not build by contracting those facilities.”
“The proposal will result in poor access to education for those who do not engage well and have not engaged well with traditional education. What about those who advocate an alternative pathway to academia for those who learn in a different way? The proposal would see literally thousands of people have such opportunities denied to them. <BR /> <BR />Something just does not add up. What is to be gained from the closure? It should be noted that Belfast Met's 10-year preventative maintenance programme states that the campus has been maintained to a good standard and that the £10 million cost of maintenance and modernisation is over a 10-year period and is a worst-case scenario. <BR /> <BR />As I understand it, there is insufficient room or capacity to transfer all the courses and people to the Titanic campus.”
“This campus offers opportunities that the other campuses do not. Naturally, then, I express my opposition to the proposal in the strongest terms. I consider it to be regressive, discriminatory and short-sighted. In truth, I am concerned that the consultation was merely a tick-box exercise to go through the motions for an ill-conceived decision that may already have been taken. <BR /> <BR />Thus far, DUP delegations have met representatives from Belfast Met and the unions, students, employees, other interested parties and the Minister. We will oppose the closure vehemently and at every turn. We will not readily allow our young people to have yet another learning option closed to them. Moreover, skills are essential to the success and growth of Northern Ireland's economy.”
“Belfast Met states that Castlereagh requires £10 million that it simply cannot find for capital and maintenance works. It says that the condition and layout are not in accordance with Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) standards and that the campus is not a modern teaching environment. Some, including me, might suggest that, while an outdated facility is not ideal, it is certainly much better than none. <BR /> <BR />The location of Castlereagh college is first-rate. It affords considerable room for expansion, is widely considered to be the easiest to access of the four Belfast Met colleges and has the benefit of free parking. It is now even more profoundly important for our locality and our economy that our people, young and old, have easy access to training and skills.”
“I am delighted to have secured the debate on an issue that is crucial particularly for but not restricted to my constituency of East Belfast. <BR /> <BR />Towards the end of last year, Belfast Met launched a pre-consultation on the proposed closure of its Castlereagh campus. Castlereagh college, as it is known in our part of the world, is legendary. It has been an institution in more ways than one and in the best possible sense for decades. It would be impossible to overstate the impact that it has had on the people of East Belfast and beyond for generations. After a long, proud history of many decades, it is abhorrent that that proposal is under consideration at all. <BR /> <BR />The rationale offered is the investment that would be required to bring the college up to standard.”
“Prisoner numbers have been at almost 2,000 for a sustained period. Current officer recruitment will only bring levels to that required for a population of 1,450, leaving officers and regimes under considerable strain. What can be done to expedite recruitment to bring officer numbers to the level appropriate for the prison population, and is there sufficient money in the new departmental budget to do so?”
“I welcome the Minister's announcement. Hearing it makes today a really important day for Northern Ireland. The Minister mentioned east Belfast in his statement. What additional information can he give us about such a project in east Belfast? I am also delighted to hear that Longstone School has been prioritised. Will the Minister give us some indication of the support that he and the EA will be able to provide to the school, as it seeks to establish and sustain a sixth form, which could teach life skills, bring employment opportunities and enhance the prospects of its pupils?”
“<BR /> <BR />I trust that the pilot will be successful and that the provision of sanitary products in such public places, particularly the courts, where there are significant numbers of the public and where people can spend an entire day, will go some way towards alleviating the dignity issues faced by women and girls who find themselves in difficult financial circumstances or in emergency need to avail themselves of the products. We in the DUP support the rule.”
“It seems to me that, if arm's-length bodies, much smaller organisations and core agencies have to make such provision, it naturally follows and is sensible that those with much greater throughput of the general public should do likewise, if we are truly committed to and serious about addressing period poverty. I was, therefore, pleased to receive the Department's response that it will make provision and endeavour to engage, even if on a trial basis.”