Joanne Bunting
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Their input was instrumental in shaping the Bill that the Assembly will shortly be invited to pass. <BR /> <BR />For those affected by the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and related pathways and practices, the process has taken too long, but we can be pleased that we got there, for the victims' sakes.”
“It is still cruel, disheartening and difficult to fully comprehend. I hope that the experiences of the many women who were affected by those institutions and practices will serve as a challenge to us all.”
“We thank all who participated in the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum. We know that that has not always been an easy space, but we hope that, today, they can reflect on all their efforts with pride.”
“<BR /> <BR />To victims and survivors considering whether to engage with the redress service, I send an unequivocal message: the scheme exists because your experiences matter, and you need not face the process alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the experience did not end with the institution itself; rather, for the victims and survivors — those women and children — the period has been a thread of pain that has woven its way through their entire lives.”
“It is not an exaggeration to say that today is a momentous day. It is an honour and a privilege for me to move the Final Stage of this important legislation on behalf of the First Minister and the deputy first Minister, junior Minister Reilly and, indeed, the Executive.”
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“<BR /> <BR />The truth about the Comber greenway, as it currently stands, is that. if you mistime your cycle, you are in pitch black, you are potentially riding through dog mess, you are scared of running over animals rather than seeing them and you have no idea about who else is around. Therefore, there are safety issues and health concerns. Perhaps the Comber greenway is not being used to its maximum potential on the basis of some of those issues, which could be resolved to make the greenway a bit more like the Connswater greenway. <BR /> <BR />As my colleagues have mentioned, the Connswater greenway has become an international model of best practice.”
“I am only joking. It has been quite the justice week. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to my colleague Robin for securing the Adjournment debate. There can be no question about the benefits of greenways for physical health and undoubtedly for mental health. The value of time spent with friends or family, relaxing, winding down, seeing some animals, having a good laugh and getting some exercise while we are at it cannot be overstated. <BR /> <BR />Without reliving all our yesterdays, as my colleague Michelle McIlveen said, many a time, on one of our various health kicks, we cycled from Comber, right down the Comber greenway, right down the Connswater greenway and over to Carrick. Obviously, the benefits of that are cake and ice cream, and neither of us will deny that. Sometimes, you need a bit of an incentive, and that certainly worked for us.”
“At this point, I feel as though I should declare my interest as a member of the Policing Board. That seems to be what I do this weather”
“Just imagine, and this is the rub, the psychological impact; the desecration of their personal safe haven and sanctuary; and the ensuing loss of confidence. That highlights their vulnerability and mortality. It is a reminder that we are not what we once were. Who among us wants to face that reality? <BR /> <BR />It is important that we get this right. The fear of crime is debilitating and paralysing and can lead to isolation, which only exacerbates the problem. I am grateful for the Minister's presence, words and actions to date and for her proposed actions. I look forward to working with her, the commissioner, the police and the Policing Board towards improved outcomes.”
“It pinpointed and crystallised what I had considered to be the issue, prior to sitting for a time and empathising with those in our society who are a bit older: the fear of crime and the reasons for preferring not to report it, to which many Members have alluded. What also struck me was that a lifeline can also be a threat, including the telephone, which is also a resource for the scammer, and even things like handrails for outside steps, to the bad guys, can be indicative of vulnerability. <BR /> <BR />As recently as yesterday, an elderly lady in east Belfast was burgled. Her home was ransacked and money and jewellery were stolen. Only a couple of weeks before that, two men entered an elderly couple's home with hatchets.”
“Even the word "victim" is synonymous with all things unpleasant and serves to bring home our own potential frailty, because anyone can be the victim of crime. That said, we take this issue seriously, not just because we think, "There but for the grace of God go I", but because many of us in this Chamber are at that time in our lives when we are faced with caring for an elderly loved one. We are watching those who were invincible to us in our childhood become those for whom we fear and will protect with all we have. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps to my shame, I had not read the report prior to the debate.”
“It is so vital in our society, and there are so many great examples of circumstances where the old and the young come together and break down the barriers; the fear on one side and the imparting of knowledge and wisdom on the other. Often, young people will take a bit of advice from the elderly that they would not necessarily take from their parents. <BR /> <BR />Mr Dunne referred to pre-recorded evidence and video links and the importance of visible policing and the impact that that will, hopefully, have. <BR /> <BR />I turn to my own remarks, which will be fairly brief. To be the victim of crime is horrendous, but how much more so must it be for those who are older, perhaps alone and certainly vulnerable.”
“Ms Kelly reminded us that our elderly are the backbone of our society. I have already mentioned that her personal experience mirrored my own, and she was right when she spoke of prevention, information and support. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGlone talked about our elderly deserving the right to live in peace in their homes. I wholeheartedly concur. He spoke of cross-departmental working and said that good neighbours are vital. <BR /> <BR />Ms Barton raised a harrowing account of a person jumping from a window. She also mentioned statistics regarding fear, as did a number of other Members. <BR /> <BR />Ms Dillon raised a really important point about the old and the young being brought together.”
“Mr Frew highlighted that the elderly are often targets for criminals and raised the issue of the importance of education on safety. <BR /> <BR />Mr Clarke mentioned advocacy versus the sense of security through the community.”
“She spoke of the devastating impact that those scams can have.”
“Ms Armstrong also referred to the important issue of safeguarding, and I thank her for that important point. <BR /> <BR />Mr Buckley referred to the impressive work done by caregivers. It is they who afford many of us the opportunity to continue working to provide for our families while caring for an elderly relative and loved one. <BR /> <BR />Mr Givan, along with many others, referred to the trauma after an event. He spoke of sentencing and the importance of a consistent approach to the vulnerable. <BR /> <BR />Ms Flynn, rightly, raised the issue of older people being protective of their financial and personal details. This is the issue: there is a trust and a naivety whereby older people are sometimes prepared to give details over the phone that those who are younger and perhaps wise to scams would not give.”
“She also referred to the barriers to reporting — the embarrassment and the issue of memory/recall — and how all those things are off-putting to those advancing in age. Mr McHugh intervened and spoke about isolation. <BR /> <BR />Rightly, Mr Beattie kept the focus on the victim. He gave us shocking statistics on the prevalence of abuse. Those are sobering thoughts for us all to continue with in the course of our work in this place. <BR /> <BR />Ms Armstrong told an emotive story about the impact of theft. She was right when she said that we must be careful not to exacerbate the fear. I am grateful to her for raising a point about the definition of vulnerable and vulnerability. That is another reason why I pay tribute to and thank my friend Lord Morrow for his Act, which brought up that definition.”
“We do not know whether it was the same people. Nobody was ever caught. With that came her decline and entry to a residential home. <BR /> <BR />Ms Kimmins also mentioned that those who are known to the older person or are in a position of trust are often the perpetrators, and she spoke about the fear of repercussions from reporting a crime. A number of Members referred to those key issues. On that point, it would be remiss of me not to congratulate both Members on their maiden speech this morning. <BR /> <BR />Ms Bradley mentioned loneliness, which, along with isolation, is a key factor in the debate. She reminded us that this whole conversation is about not just the elderly but the vulnerable.”
“I, for one, am not ashamed or afraid to admit in the House and to the House that I live in fear of harm coming to my elderly mother and, worse still, by someone's hand. It has already happened. The circumstances were that a man came to her door, forced his way in and insisted that she had an issue with her roof. He repeatedly came back for money, leaving her afraid to come downstairs, to open her blinds, to open her door and to leave her home. <BR /> <BR />Ms Kimmins spoke about those who go into residential care after a burglary. That is exactly what happened to my gran, and, as with Ms Kelly's experience, it entirely reflects and mirrors my experience when my grandmother was burgled. They locked her in her room. They actually took out a full window. Once it had happened once, it happened twice.”
“Like the Minister, I am grateful to those who participated and for the tone and unanimity that we adopted in the debate. They reflect the seriousness and sincerity with which we approach the issue. I will briefly summarise what I took to be the key events in the debate. <BR /> <BR />Mr Storey opened the debate by reminding us of the inspiration that the older generation provides to us. He gave us some stark statistics. All were thought-provoking, and some were incredibly worrisome. Mr McCann intervened to talk about the excellent existing organisations in our communities, and he is absolutely right about that. <BR /> <BR />My colleague Mr Newton spoke about fear, as did a number of Members, and about the fact that it permeates beyond the neighbourhood. It reaches beyond the individual to the family.”
“— to allow those involved to be fully resourced to bring those individuals to justice and —”
“I will do, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />— and who now use their influence to show young people that there is a better way. They should be assisted. I welcome the results achieved by the paramilitary crime task force. I urge it to follow the money, and I urge the Minister to bring forward the criminal finances legislation —”
“There is a world of difference between celebrating heritage and history, as we are all entitled to do, and the glorification of a terrorist campaign. <BR /> <BR />Undoubtedly, there are those who have turned their lives around —”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />That is right. All councils should be considering it in their community plans. <BR /> <BR />The average citizen is not afforded such access. That in turn serves to underscore and legitimise their credibility and standing. That is equally applicable to the Parades Commission. I have raised this matter directly with it: we cannot, on the one hand, expend millions of pounds to reinforce the message that paramilitarism will no longer be tolerated and that our society must move on and desist from the glorification of terror, whilst having that message being entirely undermined annually by the IRA's D company parade in Belfast, which sees participants dressed as active combatants.”
“However, it is imperative that that work is not undermined by statutory agencies and Departments, including, but not limited to, councils, the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. Often, as has been stated, the gatekeepers in a community are afforded access to senior officials in those organisations whom the average citizen is not.”
“Moreover, 68% of those living in mainly loyalist areas and 62% of those living in mainly republican areas disagree that paramilitary groups keep the area safe. People are seeing through them. Long may that continue. The communities have had enough; they have found their voice and the strength to say, "Enough". Now it is the responsibility of politicians, the PSNI and the courts to come in behind them with support, investigations, convictions and adequate sentencing. If people are to come forward, often at great risk to their safety and that of their family, they must feel that the support, protection and follow-up will be worth that risk. Otherwise, the fear and coercion will re-establish itself and the information will run dry. <BR /> <BR />Clearly we are beginning to see some fruit from the Ending the Harm campaign.”
“Pat, if you do not mind, I will keep going. Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />Is it the lawless or the lawful? There is no question: the gangmasters and their minions consider themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. The problem is that that view can be reinforced by delays in the justice system. Unquestionably, the slow pace of the system, in a society that demands immediacy, contributes to the context in which there are those who reach the end of their tether and approach the paramilitaries for swift justice in the form of an assault or the threat of one. <BR /> <BR />Thankfully, we are seeing a change in views. The grip is loosening. Recent DOJ statistics show a 46% decrease in the view that paramilitary assaults are justified in certain circumstances.”
“<BR /> <BR />Folks are sick of working themselves into the ground to raise their children and give them a decent life. They are just about making ends meet, while watching people who have seldom, if ever, worked a day in their lives, or who apparently have modest jobs, but live in great houses, with the best of everything, and cars, clothes and holidays that do not reflect their supposed income. Now we see young adults who are owned by organisations, working to pay off drug debts, and, even worse, coming at an arranged time, often driven to the appointed place by a loved one, to be beaten, maimed or shot. It seems as if those gangs do so without fear. I have regularly challenged the PSNI about who runs Northern Ireland. Is it the lawless —?”
“Now, the only protection the community wants or needs is from those who purport to be their protectors and defenders. The only cause is lifestyle, status, money and drugs. There is no political or religious cause. There is only crime — organised crime, drug dealing, loan-sharking, racketeering, and keeping their own people in line through threats and intimidation. My constituency of East Belfast has seen more than its fair share. <BR /> <BR />They murder their own because of perceived slights or insults. For hard men, they have very sensitive egos. Just ask the McCartneys and, more recently, the Ogles. I have met both, and I stand with both. There is no justification for people's being chased, beaten and stabbed to death in the street, or on a farm, as in the case of Paul Quinn.”
“I wish to declare my membership of the Northern Ireland Policing Board. I thank those who tabled the motion, giving the Assembly a chance to discuss properly the scourge that has blighted our land and communities for decades. It is scandalous that, some 22 years after the Belfast Agreement and all the promises of ceasefires and standing down, paramilitarism continues, albeit in a different guise. Then again, what is a mere lie to those who engage in violent beatings and murder? Let me be clear: it was just as wrong then as it is now, and has been all along on all sides. <BR /> <BR />Like the parasite that it is, paramilitarism has morphed and mutated to fit its own needs and gain. Long gone are the days when those who engaged in it took the view that they were defending their people — that there was a cause.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer, but 29,000 out of our population, given our number of senior citizens, is not significant. Does the Minister find that acceptable? Does he think that more can be done? What will he do to promote the scheme?”
“To go back to the original question, what liaison has the Minister or her Department had with the NIO on the responses to the most recent legacy consultation? In her view, what must happen as a result of the concerns raised by innocent victims?”
“Does the deputy First Minister agree that, in circumstances where departmental agencies and arm's-length bodies afford access to these people in another role, they afford credibility to those who have been engaged and that, therefore, permits them to maintain coercion and control in areas where the tackling paramilitarism programme is trying to reduce all such influence? In circumstances where the Parades Commission, the Housing Executive, the councils and the police continue to meet these people, it affords them a status, a credibility and an access that the average citizen is not afforded.”
“The Minister mentioned the very real fears in hospitality that the result of Reval2020 may be that hard-won growth is smothered and, in some cases, some businesses may be forced to close. Will she undertake to make representations to the Minister of Finance on behalf of the sector to see what might be done to avoid and/or minimise such an outcome?”
“I thank the Minister for her very detailed answer. As she knows, the delays often extend to three months, which, in some cases, on top of all their other financial pressures, can see clients facing eviction from their homes. What does she plan to do to streamline the process? Will she implement a repayment plan for those who have availed themselves of an advance payment? The entire repayment of that loan is being taken from the client's initial universal credit payment and that often results in extended hardship and means that it takes clients longer to stabilise their finances. Will the Minister consider implementing a repayment plan?”
“What engagement has there been with the institutions and religious orders regarding their contribution to funding the costs? Also, will the Executive Office make recommendations to have the Kincora files opened? In circumstances in which the inquiry found no state collusion, dates of 2085 and 2060 seem excessive and would mean the victims of that depravity will likely not live to see the files opened.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given the poor condition of the tower blocks, I welcome the fact that the plans will be in place by late summer, as the Minister said. When does he anticipate action starting to get remedial works under way in the blocks?”
“The Minister has made great pronouncements today about the things and the people he has stood up for. One thing that he cannot claim to have stood up for is the business community. He knows full well the implications for and impact on the business community of plunging us into political instability, as Sinn Féin has done. <BR /> <BR />In the statement, the Minister proposed the removal of the rates cap. Does he understand the fear that he has generated amongst older homeowners who have worked all their days for what they have and who may be asset-rich but are now cash-flow poor and the implications that his proposals have for them?”
“To that end, I can say sincerely and wholeheartedly that, without question or a shadow of doubt, the one person in whom I have faith to do that is Arlene Foster MLA, the First Minister of Northern Ireland.”
“What matters to her, to us and to the public is that this is fixed and who we trust to fix it.”
“This sensationalist, tantalising approach with a focus on "He said, she said" and how many people were in the room for some alleged row does nothing to foster an environment of conveying the facts with the purpose of finding a resolution as quickly as possible. Instead, Ministers are asked to comment on emails that they are not shown, a line here or a paragraph there. They call for openness and transparency with which we agree — all of us — but this is the opposite of how they behave. Moreover, it ignores the root of the issue that the First Minister and the Minister for the Economy have been working hard to fix the fundamental problem and rein in the costs. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister has nothing to hide and nothing to fear — not the truth — as some have suggested this morning. There is nothing from which she should or will run away.”
“<BR /> <BR />What is important, for the sake of public confidence, is that the problem is rectified as quickly as is practicably possible and with the minimum expenditure of taxpayers' hard-earned cash. Yet, very regrettably, this has not been the focus. This is reflected even in the way in which this matter has been reported. If they were interested in resolving this situation effectively and efficiently for the sake of public confidence, the media would have come forward with all the information at their disposal and not played this out like a soap opera. They cannot have this both ways. On the one hand, they say that it is the gravest, most significant situation that the Executive have ever faced. Yet, on the other hand, they say, "We have news that is of critical import, but we will let you know tomorrow or maybe next week.".”
“None of them found any remote problem at the time. None of them expressed any concern at the time. The fact remains that the Minister would have been rightly and roundly criticised for ignoring such advice. It would be a bizarre state of affairs had we found ourselves in circumstances where, on receipt of confirmation from internal and external advisers that a scheme was correct and proper, a Minister did not follow that advice. If the advice to the Minister was incorrect, then so was the advice received by the Committee. The truth is that that advice convinced everybody who saw it, including the scrutiny Committee and every other party here.”
“Let us remember that the brightest and best considered this scheme; it was pored over by experts from the departmental team and a team of highly paid consultants. Indeed, it was pored over by the Assembly scrutiny Committee, which, in fairness to it, had no more expertise in this area than the Minister herself.”
“She has acknowledged and accepted her responsibilities, insofar as they lay with her. At no time has she sought to shirk those responsibilities. Rather, as is her way, she has sought to address the problem head on. Members could have heard that this morning, had they remained with us. <BR /> <BR />Contrary to the principles of fairness or natural justice, the motion aims to exclude her without a shred of evidence of wrongdoing and, ultimately, on the basis that she followed advice. We all agree with the convention that Ministers bear responsibility for that which occurs in their Departments, but at the root of this matter is the lack of cost control measures built into the scheme.”
“It may be pantomime season, but it would better serve this House to move away from play-acting and towards the resolution of a truly difficult situation in a spirit of cooperation and constructive behaviour. We face a serious situation, and Members showed by their actions this morning that they were more interested in Assembly process around statements and grandstanding by means of this exclusion motion than in hearing from the First Minister and taking the opportunity to put a direct question to her on the issue. We cannot, should not and must not be in a position where, every time an issue of significance is raised in the Assembly, politics is allowed to cloud that which is really important. <BR /> <BR />This motion seeks to exclude the First Minister. To what end? She has agreed to, and supports, an independent inquiry.”
“How does the Minister plan to address the legitimate concerns that some of us have that, far from being a fair system that supports prosperity, it is a system in which he is penalising some small businesses to the benefit of others? They all contribute to the economy and all employ people. How does he propose to define "retail"?”
“It appears that the collaborative approach has been successful. Will the deputy First Minister outline how he and the First Minister will continue that approach with other organisations, including the business sector?”
“Still on a musical theme, given the successful reintroduction of the musical instruments for bands programme, does the Minister have plans to review this programme overall?”
“Minister, in an earlier answer, you mentioned the Executive's dedicated strategy to double revenue from aerospace, defence, security and the space sector. In light of last week's announcement, and given East Belfast's strong history and skilled labour force in this area, might there be opportunities for redeployment in or expansion of those other companies in East Belfast?”
“What is being done to promote digital skills in schools?”
“What do you anticipate will be the tangible impacts of what you have outlined for people who suffer from dementia and their families?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I note that she mentioned a reunion event, but what mechanisms are in place beyond that to ensure that the established relationships are built on and maintained?”
“If necessary, will she directly intervene to help, particularly the Bradbury Centre, alleviate the problems and address what are clearly enormous issues with regard to waiting lists and the prioritisation therein?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for her answer and the action that she intends to take. In East Belfast, parents are told that there is a 22-month wait for an assessment in the Bradbury Centre. They wait for seven months, then they check and are told that the wait is down but it is still 20 months. That is, realistically, a P6 child who is not going to be assessed until they are about to enter first year. I have parents who are at their wits' end. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that the Minister is sympathetic, but my question and, to some extent, my plea to her, while I appreciate the action that she intends to take and that she has outlined, is "How long can this go on?".”