Joanne Bunting
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Their input was instrumental in shaping the Bill that the Assembly will shortly be invited to pass. <BR /> <BR />For those affected by the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and related pathways and practices, the process has taken too long, but we can be pleased that we got there, for the victims' sakes.”
“It is still cruel, disheartening and difficult to fully comprehend. I hope that the experiences of the many women who were affected by those institutions and practices will serve as a challenge to us all.”
“We thank all who participated in the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum. We know that that has not always been an easy space, but we hope that, today, they can reflect on all their efforts with pride.”
“<BR /> <BR />To victims and survivors considering whether to engage with the redress service, I send an unequivocal message: the scheme exists because your experiences matter, and you need not face the process alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the experience did not end with the institution itself; rather, for the victims and survivors — those women and children — the period has been a thread of pain that has woven its way through their entire lives.”
“It is not an exaggeration to say that today is a momentous day. It is an honour and a privilege for me to move the Final Stage of this important legislation on behalf of the First Minister and the deputy first Minister, junior Minister Reilly and, indeed, the Executive.”
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“I know that the Chamber has not always been sympathetic to them at times, but in few other sectors would people be permitted to wait 12 to 16 weeks for payment, some for work that was completed a year or more previously. Those delays could be the difference between a practice surviving and having to close. Many in the legal profession are on their knees, and, no doubt, firms will close. We should not forget that those practices are small businesses. They contribute to the economy. They are on our high streets and employ our constituents. Yet, legal aid payment is not their only struggle.”
“There are no female-only hostels that are approved by the Probation Service. Unsurprisingly, the three biggest issues that the service faces are mental health, addiction and trauma. In the first three months of last year, the service used up its annual addiction services budget. In three months, it was gone. <BR /> <BR />Significant modernisation and capital works are required across some parts of the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service estate, some of which is listed, which invariably adds to the costs, but the longer the work is delayed, the more it will cost in the long run. I have met the Bar Council and the Law Society.”
“Recently, I visited Magilligan prison and Hydebank Wood Secure College, and Maghaberry will follow. Magilligan is an old World War II air force base that was always supposed to be used as a temporary measure. We are long past the point where Magilligan is a temporary measure. It is apparent that the need for capital works is substantial, but people there know that it is not coming, so, instead, they are opting to do what they can in a piecemeal fashion, which is just doing their best to make it work — likewise, at Hydebank. I should caveat all that by saying that I am not soft on crime, but, when people who are mentally ill and seriously disturbed are put in prison because there is nowhere else suitable for them to go and when there are female prisoners in their eighties who essentially require nursing care, we have to start to rethink.”
“While some people may argue that they are criminals, and that can certainly be said of some, the facts are that many of them are unwell and in the wrong place. They need healthcare. Moreover, we need people to emerge from prison rehabilitated and able to rejoin society in a responsible manner, not to cause risk to the rest of us and not to reoffend.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution, and I concur. <BR /> <BR />Over 50% of prisoners have addiction issues. Among the female prison population, a significant number have highly traumatic backgrounds. Among young men, there are high levels of anxiety, depression and an inability to control their emotions.”
“While prison officers are being recruited, the stretch is such that the rehabilitation of prisoners is significantly impacted, all of which impacts on wider society in the long term.”
“They are the people whom we rely on to keep us and our communities safe, and the public will take a dim view if the service is grossly underfunded to the point where it will take decades to recover. That is what we face. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the Prison Service, where the picture is similar. The prison population is approaching its highest number ever and is expected, within the year, to reach 2,000 prisoners. It is built for circa 1,500 people. The population has grown to such an extent that not only are some prisoners doubling up but old blocks have had to be reopened to house them. That is exacerbated by huge numbers on remand or in receipt of short sentences, and the reoffending rate has risen to 40%.”
“For example, if they attend a call on behalf of the Ambulance Service or if they come upon a person who is unwell on the street, should that person die, the incident will be reported to the ombudsman and investigated. Officers often spend entire shifts in A&E. As society is increasingly suffering from complex needs, the PSNI is becoming embroiled in work that is not for the police and for which they are not appropriately qualified. That is the reality facing the police, and there is a consequential impact on morale and sickness levels. The strain is showing, and a considerable number of officers are seeking to leave, often scarred physically or, indeed, mentally as a result of what they have seen. They are the people who run towards danger as all others run away.”
“That is in circumstances where, unlike any other force in the UK, they are not permitted to hold reserves, not allowed to borrow and find it impossible to plan strategically on the basis of an annual budget. <BR /> <BR />I also want to point out that, in the last mandate, the House passed a raft of new laws. However, the finance did not follow the function, and, in many cases, the police just absorbed the financial cost of implementation and received no additional allocation of money. The police are increasingly becoming the first port of call in the absence of all others, but remember: they often have to face the Police Ombudsman for their trouble.”
“It is of further note that, over the past number of years, the police's budget has been cut to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. It has been cut to the bone, one might say, and we are now in circumstances where the service may become unrecognisable to the public. The conversation has moved from planning and modernisation and turned to cutting services and what may realistically be provided. The service is now looking at a new operational model and at further cutting services that had already been cut. The previous Chief Constable sounded the alarm, as has his successor. Both men were and are faced with conflicting choices between their statutory duties as accounting officers and their legal responsibility to keep people safe.”
“Custody is not the place, and that takes us back to the issue of "right people, right care", about which we have heard so much of late. We are reaching a point at which, without question, public safety will be impacted. Prevention is always the aim, but, in order to do that, there must be investment. <BR /> <BR />In my remarks as Chair, I mentioned four key areas, and I wish to elaborate on them to give Members the picture. I will start with the PSNI, which accounts for 60% to 65% of the DOJ's budget. Debate about the number of officers is valid and worthy, but it merely scratches the surface. The NDNA agreement made it clear that there would be 7,500 police officers, but we find ourselves with the lowest number of officers since the service began.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the past 12 years, as other Members have stated, the budget for the Department of Health has increased by 70%; the Education budget by 45%; and the Justice budget by 3%. When Education and Health fail, the justice system should be the last resort. Increasingly, however, the justice system is not the last resort but the daily reality. It is clear that the justice system is picking up the stresses from the rest of the system. It is important to note that the majority of people going through the criminal justice system have complex needs and are likely to be dealing with addiction and trauma. There are people in police cells because there is nowhere else that is safe for them to go. People are in prison for the same reason.”
“Since being appointed DUP spokesperson for justice this time last year, I have made it my business to familiarise myself as far as possible with the sector. It is a fascinating and multifaceted area of work, but there are some stark realities for the House and for society as a whole. The cold hard facts are that the Department of Justice will face £430 million of unmet pressures, which equates to almost 40% of its budget. There are no further savings to be made. Decisions now may involve moving money from one budget line to another, but there are no savings to be found, and there are consequences to such decisions. None of that is in the Department's control. As I stated, 95% of its budget is demand-led.”
“Over the coming weeks, the Committee will take evidence from various directorates in the Department, its agencies and non-departmental public bodies. That will include the PSNI, the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service and the probation service, among others, and we will, no doubt, hear directly about the effect that it is having on their important work. <BR /> <BR />The Committee obviously has not had enough time or information to enable it to make a collective decision, but it is fair to say that members indicated that they had concerns about various matters during our discussions with the permanent secretary. We will have the opportunity to consider those in much greater depth in the coming weeks. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak in my capacity as an individual MLA.”
“In the main, those are non-statutory functions that aim to meet the needs of individuals that are otherwise not being met, and they were often done with or on behalf of another Department. At that time, the Committee questioned why some or all of the funding responsibility rested with the Department of Justice, when some of the services were clearly linked to another Department's remit. It emphasised that a more collaborative and joined-up approach to funding those services was required. I expect that that will be a key area of focus for the new Justice Committee. <BR /> <BR />While the discussion with the permanent secretary at our meeting on Thursday was a general overview of the work of the Department, it kept returning to the impact that the financial position is having or will have on service provision.”
“The group currently includes representatives from the health sector and, in the future, will likely include representatives from the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. That is to be welcomed. The Committee is keen to hear more about that and other innovative practices that will impact positively across the justice sector. <BR /> <BR />During discussions with the permanent secretary, I raised concerns about the extent to which people are engaged in the justice system when they should not be. When the previous Justice Committee undertook scrutiny of the budget, it noted that parts of the system play important roles in the delivery of health and social care outcomes.”
“Work is ongoing to determine the optimum number of police officers, but it is expected that the outcome of that work will show that it should be significantly higher than it currently is. <BR /> <BR />Most, if not all, of us will agree that preventative and rehabilitative work is much more fruitful than reactive work and, indeed, may actually reduce costs in the longer term. Where the justice system is concerned, that often involves collaborative working with other Departments. As an example, Committee members heard about a prison population oversight group that is looking at ways both to reduce the number of people going into prison and to ease the pathways of those leaving prison.”
“Examples such as those that I have just outlined should be a cause of concern for us all. <BR /> <BR />I will now talk about the next financial year. The Committee was advised that a flat-cash scenario would leave the Department facing estimated pressures of almost £430 million, which equates to 37% of the Department's baseline. That is a planning assumption, and a flat-cash scenario is by no means certain. It could indeed be worse than that. The Department's work is demand-led, and those costs are inescapable. The Committee heard that one of the outworkings of such a Budget settlement would be that the PSNI would not be able to work towards increasing the number of police officers, which, as I mentioned, is at its lowest-ever level.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Yes, I am certainly content and happy to be associated with those remarks. <BR /> <BR />The Department's allocation of capital DEL for 2023-24 was £129 million. Of that, £37 million was returned in-year owing to slippage in projects, most notably the police college. The Department received £11 million in-year for legal aid pressures, and the allocation of £75·3 million non-ring-fenced resource DEL and £4·9 million resource DEL in the Finance Minister's announcement of 15 February is to be welcomed. While pay awards still have to be finalised, that may mean that the Department does not finish the year with an overspend. <BR /> <BR />I understand that it is important that the Department live within its budget, but the impact of the measures that it has taken to get here must not be underestimated.”
“Members also made the point that a significant amount of valuable rehabilitative work is carried out by the community and voluntary sector, which can often be among the first in line when budget cuts are necessary. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also heard that the number of police officers is projected to be just over 6,300 by March 2024. That is the lowest number of officers since the formation of the PSNI and is well below the "New Decade, New Approach" target of 7,500 officers.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the course of the year, the projected overspend was reduced to £35 million by slowing spend across the justice sector. That included suspending PSNI recruitment and not recruiting prison officers. There are obvious consequences from such measures that have had to be taken. The non-recruitment of prison officers comes against a backdrop of an increasing prison population. Current staffing levels are for a population of 1,450 prisoners, but over 1,900 people are in custody, and that number continues to increase. The ability to provide effective rehabilitation to an increasing population when the service is understaffed will therefore be diminished.”
“We did, however, receive an overview of the Department's work from the permanent secretary at our first meeting last week, and Committee members took the opportunity to discuss some budgetary matters with him then. It is in that context that I make my remarks. <BR /> <BR />The non-ring-fenced resource budget for the Department of Justice for 2023-24 was £1,157 million. That meant that it began the financial year with pressures amounting to £149 million. The PSNI accounts for 65% of the Department's budget, but add to that the Prison Service, the Courts and Tribunals Service and legal aid — four key areas of the justice sector — and that figure rises to 95%. That leaves little room to reduce spend in order to balance the budget in a way that will not have consequences for the delivery of vital services.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I beg your indulgence, first to congratulate you and then to place on record my acknowledgement of the second anniversary of the passing of my friend and colleague Christopher Stalford. He may no longer be with us, but he will never be forgotten. <BR /> <BR />I declare an interest, in that I have a close family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate as Chairperson of the Committee for Justice. The Committee has not yet had an opportunity to undertake detailed scrutiny of the Department's budget or financial position and has therefore not been able to consider in detail the matters covered by the Budget Bill.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. At the end of that point of order, you afforded the Member an extra minute. That is not in procedures. I appreciate that your rulings are final. However, perhaps the officials could go and look at the established procedures, because that could well be a precedent that you have established and a danger.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It would be helpful if Members would indicate that their remarks will be in a different language so that we have time to put our headphones on, if that is OK.”
“I appreciate that, Minister. I want to put it on the record that Mr Chambers is mistaken. It was clear from two of our contributors that the DUP has a free vote on the extension. I want to ensure that that is corrected. Thank you, Minister.”
“Will the Member give way before he sits down?”
“One practical example of that is that Northern Ireland's regulations do not permit the flying of the Union flag to mark the patron saints' holidays of other regions in the United Kingdom. That does not allow our Province to celebrate the common and historic bonds that we share with other regions of our nation. <BR /> <BR />Whilst I respect the DCMS guidance and the steps taken in response by the Secretary of State to bring forward the regulations, let me say unambiguously that Northern Ireland's Britishness must be respected, and the right of unionist communities to express national pride should not be held to ransom. The DUP regards the display of our national symbols as a central expression of pride in Northern Ireland's Britishness and membership of the United Kingdom.”
“<BR /> <BR />My party colleagues Jonathan Buckley, Mervyn Storey and Keith Buchanan have written to the Speaker requesting that the Assembly Commission approve the flying of the Union flag on 28 May to mark the Orange Institution's flagship centennial parade to mark and celebrate the centenary of Northern Ireland. Ultimately, the response of parties and Members returned to the House after 5 May to that modest request will be a test of their credentials and commitment to a truly shared future. <BR /> <BR />I want to be clear that the DUP continues to hold serious concerns regarding the regulation of flag flying in our Province. Nowhere else in the United Kingdom has dedicated flags legislation. The fact remains that the system is unwieldy and not fit for purpose.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a party, we greet any reduction in flag flying provision with sadness. However, we understand that the amendments will keep Northern Ireland aligned with the designated days provision published by the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in February and that they come at the request of the palace and Her gracious Majesty. It is fitting that the guidance for 2022 elevates Her Majesty The Queen's two birthdays and that of her heir in what is a huge personal milestone for her and for us as a nation as our monarch celebrates her platinum jubilee.”
“In line with previous practice, it instead agreed to table today's motion to create an opportunity for Members to consider the draft regulations. The Official Report of the debate will record the views expressed in the Assembly on the proposals. <BR /> <BR />I will now make some remarks on behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party. We on these Benches believe that the display of our national flag is an important and legitimate form of expression of our Britishness and of Northern Ireland's membership of the United Kingdom. That right has too often become the focus of the culture war of the parties opposite and, sadly, of those parties that claim to represent all traditions but are content to trample the principle of consent contained in the Belfast Agreement.”
“In accordance with the wishes of the palace, the 2022 list states that Her Majesty The Queen's two birthdays and the birthday of His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales are the only royal birthdays to be observed for the purposes of flag flying. <BR /> <BR />The Government have now drafted amendments to the Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 to reflect the current list of designated days and bring Northern Ireland into line with the rest of the UK. A copy of the proposed regulations was circulated to all Members last week and is available in hard copy in the Business Office. The Secretary of State has asked the Assembly to consider those draft regulations and provide a report of its views by 22 March 2022. <BR /> <BR />The Business Committee did not take a view on the proposals.”
“The Assembly must then report back to him the views expressed in the Assembly on the proposed regulations by the date he specified. The Secretary of State has a duty to consider the Assembly's report and may amend the proposed regulations as a result of the report before laying the regulations for approval by resolution of each House of Parliament. <BR /> <BR />The Business Committee was made aware at its meeting on Tuesday 15 March that the Secretary of State had written to the Speaker advising that he intended to make amendments to the Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 to reflect the latest list of designated days for flag flying, which was published by the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) on 11 February.”
“The Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 make provision for the flying of flags on government buildings on specified days. Under the Flags (Northern Ireland) Order 2000, the Secretary of State has the power to make and amend such regulations. However, in so doing, the Secretary of State is required to refer a draft of the proposed regulations to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />In summary, while I acknowledge that much of the draft budget is not contentious and is key to the continuing effective operation of this place, I echo the concerns expressed by members of the Audit Committee. The pause in plans for a three-year Budget provides an opportunity to reflect on the weaknesses of what is being proposed and to promote a deal that is fair to everyone and, most of all, to the taxpayer.”
“Narrow pet projects have been prioritised, the pledge for extra police officers has been abandoned, and protections for Northern Ireland's place in the UK internal market have fallen by the wayside. In that context, the inclusion of simultaneous interpretation costs in the budget is wholly disproportionate. <BR /> <BR />As a party, we believe that the resources profile and status provided for an official Opposition should not of themselves be an incentive or, indeed, a disincentive. The additional financial allowance built into the budget carries the risk of upsetting that balance. We believe that there will be an onus on parties to review this at the commencement of the new mandate.”
“The inclusion of that budget line in the absence of wider agreement in the Commission on the logistics of such a service is, we feel, premature. It remains improbable that the spending envisaged would represent good value for money or enhance the standing of the institutions at a time of rising living costs and pressures on the public purse as a result of the COVID-19 recovery. More generally, the rush to include such financial provision in the Commission budget for the next three years is yet another illustration of the partial and one-sided implementation of the New Decade, New Approach agreement. The agreement contained a range of interlocking and interdependent commitments, yet, to date, it has been cherry-picked.”
“<BR /> <BR />Additional flexibility for Members who have to travel long distances owing to the frequency of late-night sittings of the House is welcome, as is the headroom provided to cover additional staffing costs should Members have a baby or adopt a child, if there is political agreement on such a measure in the new mandate. Those measures are important to ensure an effective work-life balance for Members and to support their health and well-being. <BR /> <BR />The Democratic Unionist Party shares the concern expressed by the Audit Committee about the projected cost of simultaneous interpretation of Assembly business in Irish and Ulster Scots, nor are we convinced about the need for six interpreters. We do not support that element of the draft budget.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the next three financial years, a number of capital projects will be taken forward in areas such as security and IT. The DUP wants to ensure that safeguards are in place to ward against slippage or, indeed, the return of unspent funds. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission has a duty to ensure the effective stewardship of public funds. A number of outstanding issues that impact on the draft budget need to be rectified going forward, not least the situation where the Speaker is paid in full during periods of suspension.”
“From the outset, on behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, I place on record our thanks to the Assembly secretariat for their dedication in the face of unprecedented disruption brought about by the pandemic. The final year of any mandate is always extremely busy, and COVID-19 has generated added challenges for our institutions. Therefore, it is appropriate that we show our appreciation. <BR /> <BR />The largest category of the draft Assembly Commission budget relates to staff salaries and administration costs. That expenditure is part and parcel of ensuring that Assembly business runs smoothly and integral services are provided to Members, employees and the public. The expenditure includes everything from rates, electricity and gas to IT, broadcasting, cleaning and catering.”
“I pray that the Lord will draw near to them and provide them with comfort, solace, succour and the grace that they need to get through. I pray that they will be carried through, hour by hour and day by day, in this time of grief by those who love them; by the happy memories that they made together; and by their knowledge that he is with his Saviour. We are proud to have known Christopher, and our lives are richer and blessed because we had him with us.”
“— and he was my colleague, but Christopher Stalford was my friend, and I will miss him. We will miss him deeply. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland has lost a strong and gifted advocate, Her Majesty has lost her most devoted subject, and we have lost a friend, but our hearts are with four young children who have lost a daddy; a young woman who has lost her soulmate; a mum who has lost the apple of her eye and who will have to bury her child; and siblings who have lost their beloved brother. For Laura, Trinity, Oliver, Cameron, Abigail, Karen, Eric, Angela, Erica and Glen, I pray Jehovah jireh — the Lord our provider — not for material things, but in the context of the most profound loss that a person can face: the loss of a loved one.”
“We are grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and to our colleagues across the House for their forbearance, understanding and condolences today and for the messages that they have sent and calls that they have made to each of us. They are greatly appreciated. <BR /> <BR />I have known Christopher for over 20 years, as have most of us. Did we have our spats? Yeah, we did, but we would say what we had to say and then move on with a laugh and a hug. That was the mark of such a remarkable and unique man. His mischievous laugh is still ringing in my head. He was my constituent — boy, did he let me know it”
“No words will ever be adequate or sufficiently eloquent to express and convey to them how our hearts break for them as they try to go on.”
“As a team, we are reeling, we are in a state of shock, and we are struggling to take in this immense loss. As everyone here will know, the grief comes in waves, interspersed with thoughts that this just cannot be real. However we may feel, as has been said, it pales into insignificance when we consider Christopher's family.”
“Sadly, not for the first time in relatively recent times, I rise as DUP Chief Whip of an Assembly team stricken with unimaginable grief. It seems all too soon since we last stood here paying tribute to another of our own: Mr Gordon Dunne. Today, again, we stand, our hearts filled with sadness; this time for Christopher. He was a big character, with a huge personality, a wide smile, a loud and hearty laugh and a quick wit. There were caustic put-downs and, yes, withering glances, as has been mentioned — and those were just at us. He was also sensitive, a worrier, compassionate, kind, great company and so very bright and able. <BR /> <BR />In life, you never know what a day will bring, and yesterday brought us such terrible news: a bright light was snuffed out.”
“The Minister will be aware that increasing police numbers is a key component of New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) and that it is one aspect of that agreement that will benefit everybody in society. I appreciate that the Minister may consider that it is an operational issue, but we all know that the money can be found if the political will is there. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister outline what bids and representations she has made to the Minister of Finance to ensure that we do not regress to impractical numbers of police officers and a vast reduction in service?”
“<BR /> <BR />Let me be clear to those in the House who believe that cross-community protections apply only to nationalism: the days of casting aside the concerns of unionism are over.”
“They have had enough of Sinn Féin's disrespect for our British culture and identity. They have had enough of the SDLP labelling us as reckless when its support for the protocol fails to acknowledge the damage that has been done to the principle of consent. They have had enough of the Alliance Party lecturing us about treaties and international law while it supports agreements that breach the Belfast Agreement. We cannot go on like this. Decisive action is long overdue to restore Northern Ireland's place as a constituent and integral part of the United Kingdom, to restore fairness in our politics and to hit the reset button on relationships and respect in the House.”
“The Northern Ireland protocol is driving a wedge between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, socially, economically and constitutionally. Every week, it is costing our economy millions of pounds. Do not take my party's word for it: it is the view of a leading economist whom the Sinn Féin Minister deemed to be qualified enough to be appointed to the Fiscal Council. This party has been patient with the Government and the EU. We have given time and space, but still the protocol cheerleaders in the House ignore the damage that the Irish Sea border is doing. They ignore the fact that it trashes the principle of cross-community consent that is central to making this place work. So much for protecting the Belfast Agreement in all its forms. <BR /> <BR />The unionist people have had enough.”