Joanne Bunting
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Their input was instrumental in shaping the Bill that the Assembly will shortly be invited to pass. <BR /> <BR />For those affected by the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and related pathways and practices, the process has taken too long, but we can be pleased that we got there, for the victims' sakes.”
“It is still cruel, disheartening and difficult to fully comprehend. I hope that the experiences of the many women who were affected by those institutions and practices will serve as a challenge to us all.”
“We thank all who participated in the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum. We know that that has not always been an easy space, but we hope that, today, they can reflect on all their efforts with pride.”
“<BR /> <BR />To victims and survivors considering whether to engage with the redress service, I send an unequivocal message: the scheme exists because your experiences matter, and you need not face the process alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the experience did not end with the institution itself; rather, for the victims and survivors — those women and children — the period has been a thread of pain that has woven its way through their entire lives.”
“It is not an exaggeration to say that today is a momentous day. It is an honour and a privilege for me to move the Final Stage of this important legislation on behalf of the First Minister and the deputy first Minister, junior Minister Reilly and, indeed, the Executive.”
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“Eligibility is framed to include those who were born following their mother's admission to an institution as well as those who were themselves admitted either as a child or an adult. That ensures that individuals are not excluded simply because they were born in a hospital setting and never physically entered a mother-and-baby institution or were admitted as a baby without their mother ever having been in such an institution. However, the drafting also means that there are circumstances where an individual could be eligible under subsections (2) and (4) when they were a baby — for example, being born following their mother's admission to an institution and then being admitted to that institution themselves shortly afterwards.”
“There will be some victims and survivors who were born to a woman following her admission to an institution and then, later on, admitted as a birth mother themselves. It is a core principle of the scheme that no applicant's experience should be given greater weight than the experience of another and that the same payment is made to all eligible victims and survivors regardless of the number or duration of admissions. It would be neither proportionate nor in keeping with the intent of the scheme for the payment to increase simply on the basis of the number of admissions. <BR /> <BR />The Bill also reflects an inclusive and practical approach to eligibility, recognising the varied ways in which individuals may have been connected to the institutions.”
“<BR /> <BR />A standardised scheme must be just that, and the Bill provides for a single payment linked to admission to one or more of the relevant institutions. Importantly, that is not intended to suggest that each individual admission in itself constituted harm; rather, it recognises that all those admitted or whose mother was admitted were affected by the wider system that operated at the time. It acknowledges that undeserved shame and stigma were imposed on those women and girls at a time when they most needed care and understanding. <BR /> <BR />We know that experiences will have varied significantly. Some individuals may have spent many years in a single institution, while others may have had multiple admissions, whether to the same institution or different institutions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 30 would allow an applicant to receive multiple payments. The standardised payment has been designed to ensure that victims and survivors can access redress in a timely and supported way, while acknowledging the impact of the institutional system as a whole. It reflects recommendations made by the truth recovery design panel and developed in collaboration with victims and survivors, who were clear that they wanted a standardised payment and wished to see it delivered without delay, rather than wait for the conclusion of a public inquiry. We listened carefully to those views, and the Executive are bringing forward a fair and balanced redress package of which the standardised payment is one important element.”
“Evidence in the Queen's University and Ulster University report shows that those admitted to institutions for unmarried women and girls were exposed to inappropriate physical labour during pregnancy, to judgemental and dismissive attitudes, to limited antenatal information and to an authoritarian and cold regime. Those are conditions to which those admitted solely for private maternity provision would not generally have been subject. It is therefore appropriate and right that redress remain focused on the women and their children — now adults — whom the scheme was designed to support and acknowledge. Amendment No 29 essentially closes a potential loophole that could have allowed a person who was born in a private maternity setting to claim redress. We ask the House to support the amendments.”
“The Government of Ireland use similar drafting in their legislation, in part to reflect the wide range of institutions involved, including those in which large numbers of births took place, such as county home infirmaries. We must ensure that the redress scheme remains focused on the women and children — now adults — who suffered the shame and stigma associated with admittance to a mother-and-baby institution, rather than on those who entered a private maternity setting for the purpose of giving birth and who generally returned home with their children shortly afterwards. <BR /> <BR />The standardised payment was established to recognise the women and girls whose lives were affected by a system of institutions that imposed shame and stigma on them.”
“Those private maternity clinics were established for a different purpose, namely to generate income and provide medical services to anyone who could afford or wished to pay for them. The intention behind the amendments is therefore to draw a careful but necessary distinction between those who had no choice but to enter an institution for the purpose of shelter and maintenance and those — usually married private patients — who were admitted for maternity care in a medical setting. There are two different sets of circumstances, and only one falls within the scope and policy intent of the redress scheme. <BR /> <BR />We fully recognise that some victims and survivors may not consider the term "shelter" to reflect their experience. It is important to acknowledge that perspective, but I use the term because that wording has precedent.”
“I will now turn to the amendments in group 2, which relate to eligibility. There is a total of 13 amendments for debate in group 2, five of which were tabled by the Department, two by the Committee and six by MLAs. <BR /> <BR />I will speak first to amendment Nos 25, 28 and 29. The Department has tabled amendments to clause 31(3) and (4) to clarify that eligibility for redress extends only to the children of women whose primary purpose for admission was to receive shelter and maintenance from an institution. In doing so, it is important to recognise the complex experiences associated with those institutions. Two of the mother-and-baby institutions listed for redress — Thorndale House and Malone Place — operated a private maternity service alongside their facility for unmarried women and girls.”
“Redress already includes access to support and therapeutic services from the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS). We also know that other significant redress elements, such as memorialisation, will need to be thoughtfully considered with victims and survivors. We need to reflect on how best to do that in the right way and at the right time. That said, today is about the redress scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before I move on to the rest of my remarks, I wish to also thank the Committee for its constructive approach and for putting first the needs of victims and survivors. I also place on record my thanks to our officials for their work on this very important Bill. They were unrelenting in their efforts and worked diligently to get it right. Thank you to all of them too. <BR /> <BR />There are many positive elements to debate today, but I will be honest: many difficult and emotive elements of the Bill remain. We have had to make compromises in many places to deliver the legislation in the fairest, most consistent and timely way. Obviously, redress is about much more than a financial redress scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />In bringing forward the redress elements of the Bill, we must be clear: no financial payment can ever fully make up for the loss of identity, the disruption of lives or the years that have been taken. However, financial redress is, nevertheless, an important element of recognition, not only as outlined in the Bill but in a future individually assessed payment. For many, this moment has taken a lifetime. For some, it has come too late. We must approach this work with honesty about past failures and with care for those who still live with their consequences. There is nothing routine about this moment; it is deeply personal, and it demands seriousness, humility and compassion.”
“As outlined by junior Minister Reilly previously, the Bill's Final Stage in June will be an opportunity to reflect on its wider importance. Today, our focus is on the amendments. Nevertheless, I, too, would like to take a moment to thank all those survivors who have participated in the process. I consider it a privilege to be involved in this important piece of legislation. Today is not simply another stage in the passage of a Bill; it is part of a long overdue reckoning with how this country failed some of its most vulnerable. The provisions before us speak to a deeply troubling chapter of our past and to the enduring impact on those who lived with secrecy, stigma and unanswered questions about who they were and where they came from. That uncertainty was, in itself, an injustice.”
“Thank you very much. This is to reflect a concern. The wording of the amendment is that public bodies and individuals "must", and there is no discretion as the amendment is drafted. That is where there is a degree of concern because, as the Member will appreciate, legislation is blunt and is black and white, so it may not necessarily afford the discretion for the inquiry chairperson to exercise. That is the slight concern, and that may be something that we can address in the Bill's next stage rather than right now.”
“I beg to introduce the Education Inspections Bill [NIA Bill 34/22-27], which is a Bill to amend the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 with respect to inspections of schools, colleges and certain other providers of education.”
“However, as part of the second EVAWG delivery plan, we are working with partners and other Departments to identify gaps in the research and evidence to inform our research priorities going forward.”
“The strategic framework to end violence against women and girls (EVAWG) is focused on preventing all forms of violence, abuse and harm against women and girls. We have not commissioned or undertaken research that focuses specifically on sibling violence.”
“By acknowledging the crisis and committing to solutions, we can send a clear message: our young men are valued, and our society needs them. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, I hosted an event to explore these issues with those in education, business, the PSNI and justice. These challenges cannot be solved by government alone; we need community groups, Churches, sports clubs and families to collectively consider solutions. Let me also be very clear: this is not a competition between boys and girls and women and men. It is about starting a holistic conversation on how we can build a society where everyone can flourish together. The conversation has just begun. Please join it.”
“Evidence suggests that the type consumed is increasingly violent. We also face additional unique pressures as paramilitary groups continue to lure some young men into criminality, compounding their existing challenges. <BR /> <BR />Many young men are growing up without the guidance, purpose and mentors they need to thrive. The consequences are felt far beyond those individuals by families, communities, women and our whole society. We must ensure that those issues get attention, and we must deliver solutions, invest in youth and mental health services, support mentoring and strengthen online safety. Many of those young men lack aspiration and self-belief. They do not have anyone to champion them or even to listen.”
“<BR /> <BR />Louis Theroux's 'Inside the Manosphere' has sparked a national conversation about what is shaping young men. It uncovers the dark world of hyper-masculine influencers. Without better alternatives, they then quickly become counter role models, promoting a misogynistic, conspiratorial and violent distortion of masculinity, leaving boys insecure, anxious and under impossible pressure to conform to a narrow, toxic view of what it means to be a man. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland is not immune to those challenges. Men accounted for 79% of suicides in 2024, and suicide remains our leading cause of death in males under 50. Our economic inactivity rate is higher than the UK average, especially amongst working-class men, and our young men are the most likely in the whole of the UK to watch porn.”
“In recent years, teachers, youth workers and parents have raised growing concerns about the problems facing our boys and young men. The problems are not anecdotal. Last March, the Centre for Social Justice published its 'Lost Boys' report: sobering research that gained national attention. It highlights serious issues across employment, education, family life and fatherhood, crime, health, technology and porn. It shows that boys are falling behind girls at school, are less likely to get into stable work, are significantly more likely to be involved in crime and are three and a half times more likely to take their own life. Two and a half million children in the UK are growing up without a father figure in the home, and, in the absence of positive male role models, many boys are turning elsewhere for identity and guidance.”
“I extend my deepest and heartfelt condolences to Ellie and Amy's families.”
“<BR /> <BR />While the majority of perpetrators are men, there are plenty more men who are allies of women in this fight, and the more that we open their eyes and educate them to these problematic behaviours and mindsets and how they impact their mums, daughters, sisters, aunts and friends, the more they can be in our corner, understanding the issues and safely challenging what is unacceptable before it can escalate. <BR /> <BR />There is great work under way in the community, but we have a long way to go. We must recognise the importance of supporting victims and those at risk and ensure that services are accessible, responsive and properly funded. Victims of domestic abuse and violence must feel confident that, if they speak out, they will receive the help and support that they need.”
“When that basic right is violated, it is not just an individual tragedy; it is a failure that we must all confront. <BR /> <BR />Those who commit such heinous acts must face the full force of the law, but enforcement alone is not enough. We must also address the culture that allows violence against women and girls to persist. That begins in our homes, our schools and our communities. Respect must be taught early, modelled consistently and reinforced at every level of society, because, although this may be a problem that affects women and girls, the solution has to involve men and boys. I want to acknowledge that they, too, can be impacted and be victims. Numerous sons will have witnessed the domestic abuse of their mother in the home.”
“My colleague Julie Middleton has indicated that the local community is devastated, shocked and horrified at that terrible loss of life and at how a life was stolen so violently. <BR /> <BR />We are all too aware that violence against women and girls continues to have a devastating impact on many in Northern Ireland and that the damage inflicted can extend far beyond the immediate victim and last for a lifetime. We know that it knows no boundaries, does not recognise class, creed or age, and that we can never really know what is going on behind closed doors. Every woman and girl has the right to live free from fear and harm, particularly in the sanctuary of her own home and when in the company of those who purport to love her. They should be free to walk, exercise or socialise and know that their dignity and safety will be upheld.”
“I rise in the shadow of the tragedy of two more femicides in Northern Ireland. The murders of Amy Doherty and Ellie Flanagan are devastating reminders that violence against women and girls remains a very real and present danger in our society. Two more lives have been lost, two families have been left grieving, and two communities are asking how this can still be happening. Children will forever bear the scars of being left motherless. As a people, we must not and will not accept that. <BR /> <BR />Saturday saw the murder of Amy Doherty, a young mother of two who was found seriously injured and, sadly, later passed away. Like Ellie, she had her whole life ahead of her, and her young children have been left to grow up without their mum to help, love and guide them through life.”
“I am really grateful to the Minister for giving way. On the basis that it is a regional issue, there may be an opportunity for negotiation. I appreciate that he is outlining the trust's position, but has he given consideration to the wider issue and the opportunities that there may be to effect change?”
“The service users and their families deserve answers. They deserve action, reassurance, peace of mind and, ultimately, the service that they were promised.”
“I appreciate the pressures on the health service and know that the challenges of workforce shortages are real, but it must be recognised that, for families such as those connected to Edgcumbe, the breakdown of something as fundamental as transport has a devastating ripple effect. It impacts on mental health, emotional and physical well-being, employment, family stability and, ultimately, trust in the system. <BR /> <BR />I seek the Minister's urgent intervention to stabilise transport provision and prevent the current situation from reoccurring. The families have waited too long: some have waited for at least seven years, as the Minister knows. The attendees rely on that transport. It is their gateway to opportunities to learn, socialise, have some independence and receive therapy — in other words, to lead a fulfilled life.”
“We need clarity on what specific steps are being taken to address the pay disparities that undermine recruitment and retention; we need assurance that there is a contingency plan so that no service user is left stranded; we need a timeline for when families can expect reliability to be restored; and we need recognition that the matter is not peripheral or administrative but goes to the heart of how we treat adults with profound additional needs and support those who care for them. <BR /> <BR />The families are not asking for luxury; they are asking for a bus to arrive when it is supposed to, for their sons and daughters to be treated with dignity and for the small measure of respite that allows them to continue caring at home.”
“I thank the Minister for taking the time to listen. His presence and engagement were appreciated, but, as he will understand and, I hope, agree, families need more than empathy; they need action and resolution. <BR /> <BR />We are all aware of the significant financial pressures that the Minister faces. Nevertheless, I considered it only fair and right to make him aware of what is going on and to ask him to look into it, given the urgency of the problem in East Belfast and the wider Belfast area. However, its Province-wide impact may offer an opportunity for a regional solution, which might be cost-effective and more easily negotiated. <BR /> <BR />Edgcumbe needs at least five buses or, ideally, six. On a good day, it has three. Inevitably, some attendees are always left behind.”
“During the visit, the Minister heard at first hand from families, particularly Clare and Jacqueline, who spoke movingly and powerfully on behalf of the families about the realities of life for parents and carers and the toll taken by the ongoing uncertainty. The Minister will also remember William, who uses a specialised wheelchair and depends entirely on suitable transport arrangements.”
“However, it should be noted that it is not merely an issue in the Belfast Trust; it is reflected across the piece, but we are advised that the Belfast Trust is the most affected. Astonishingly, I am led to believe that there are no fundamental conversations between the trusts, no learning taken from one another and no discussions about best practice or solutions, which is why I sought to involve the Minister. I considered it imperative that he was informed of the overall problem, the siloed nature of the responses to a regional issue and, most important, that he heard directly for himself the human impact on users and their loved ones. <BR /> <BR />I express my thanks to the Minister for his recent visit to Edgcumbe Day Centre at my request, alongside Andy Allen MLA and our local MP, Gavin Robinson.”
“I am grateful to the Member for making that point. He is absolutely right, and I hope that the Minister of Health will address that issue. <BR /> <BR />The trust outlined the difficulties with the contracted prices for agency workers and, notably and interestingly, mentioned the need for trusts to have zero-hours contracts because many of the drivers are also employed elsewhere. Losing those contracts would have a further hugely detrimental effect on those services. To bring additional buses on board, the trust even tendered for private coach firms, but no company submitted a bid. The trust is frustrated that every avenue it has explored has failed to provide a remedy. <BR /> <BR />In accordance with the rules for Adjournment debates, I intend to focus my remarks on the impact in my constituency of East Belfast.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is deeply concerning that an essential service for vulnerable adults and their families has been allowed to deteriorate to that point because of an unresolved staffing issue. At the meeting, to its credit, the trust was rightly honest about the situation it faces and the steps that it is taking to alleviate the matter. The trust is in discussions about training and employment schemes, but, ultimately, it requires drivers to accept a lower wage than they could earn elsewhere. Understandably, in the current economic climate, that is a difficult ask and a tough choice.”
“<BR /> <BR />Further to a meeting between the Belfast Trust and parents and guardians, the trust advised that the cause of the failures lies in a shortage of drivers. The trust said that it had engaged in repeated recruitment exercises that have failed due to pay disparity. Bus drivers are paid a lower hourly rate than drivers in other sectors and Departments. Thus, naturally, recruitment and retention are becoming increasingly difficult. To outline the extent of the problem, at the initial meeting in October, we were advised that the trust lost nearly double the number of drivers in 2025 than in the previous year and that, despite rolling recruitment, applicants are down by almost two thirds on the year before, which has compounded the difficulty.”
“Conversely, parents report that their children settle when the bus comes, which is a testament to Edgcumbe’s success and its significance to the users. Further, it must be borne in mind that considerable numbers of the parents are ageing or elderly. They are often smaller than their adult children and physically incapable of withstanding meltdowns and dealing with the outworkings of the emotional fallout and distress. They are vulnerable, and many have health conditions of their own and already perpetually live in fear about what will happen to their child when they are no longer able or no longer here to take care of them or stand up for them. The same applies to the siblings who have taken on the caring responsibilities.”
“We heard from parents whose children are in residential care, and they told us that their children will call them in the middle of the night or early in the morning because they are riddled with anxiety caused by the change and the loss. They know they cannot get to the centre and will be stuck in the house. Indeed, one user has begun to self-harm as a consequence.”
“I have been told of adults with special educational needs — sons, daughters, siblings — who have been left waiting in distress, becoming increasingly anxious and frustrated. Short notice can result in huge meltdowns. Remember: they are grown men and women, many of whom retain their physicality. It is difficult for parents to watch such emotional distress when they feel so powerless to help. Members will appreciate that, for those users, routine is everything. Change and disruption are difficult. Users become agitated, upset, stressed and irritable, yet it is not much better when they are afforded notice. If they know that the bus is not coming on Monday morning, they do not sleep, because their routine has been disrupted.”
“If that taxi is not shared with another user, the cost of taxis alone can be £180 a week, when the travel allowance is £77 a week. Thus, users often have to eat into their £34-a-week allowance for personal care. To make matters worse, professional carers often have to accompany service users in the taxi to ensure their safety and well-being. That means that staff are being taken away from their duties and leaving gaps in other areas of care. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken directly with parents — constituents — who are affected. I know that other Members in the Chamber have done so, as has the Minister. Their accounts are heartbreaking. Families report the significant stress and anxiety resulting from the cancellations of the bus service, both for their children and themselves.”
“For those users, there is no workaround at all, so, when transport fails, they simply cannot attend and, consequently, miss out entirely. <BR /> <BR />The crux of the issue is that a driver shortage in the trust is resulting in a number of the children and adults not being able to avail themselves of the service due to cancelled or revised transport services, some of which happens at the last minute. For users who must be accompanied, it is financially unviable for them to use taxis, as the taxis have to wait and return. Further, it is impractical for them to use public transport. By way of example, for users who need to be accompanied in a taxi, the staff can do only one run and the taxi must wait and return, which can cost up to £22 per day.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the issue has been ongoing for some time — indeed, parents wrote to former Minister Swann in 2019 to no avail — over recent months, families have found themselves at the end of their tether because the transport services that they depend on have been failing repeatedly. Buses do not come or are cancelled. Parents are then left with no notice or short notice and no alternative but to make last-minute travel arrangements — in many cases, paying for taxis from their own pocket. For the people who avail themselves of Edgcumbe, especially those with complex medical needs, disruption to routine has a hugely negative impact. Given that some users have specialist wheelchairs or other equipment, private cars and taxis, including taxis for people with disabilities, are unable to transport them.”
“I believe that it is accurate to state that, for everybody concerned, it is a part of their day to which they look forward and on which they rely. Indeed, for many users, parents and guardians, it is fundamental to their physical and mental well-being. It provides structure, routine, social connection and vital support. For parents and carers, it offers much-needed respite — in some cases, the only respite that they receive. Some families have been linked to Edgcumbe for more than 20 years, so it has become like a second home: a safe place and a place of refuge and enjoyment.”
“The issue concerns ongoing and unacceptable transport failures that affect service users of the Edgcumbe Day Centre in East Belfast. Members will be aware that Edgcumbe is the only full-time day centre in the whole of East Belfast. It has over 100 users per day. For many people, every day from the age of 19 until they pass away, it provides their only social activity and interaction beyond that with their immediate family. It is a truly wonderful facility with amazing staff, to whom I pay tribute, and inspirational service users, who have varying levels of need or disability or require additional help, support or therapeutic services. <BR /> <BR />It is not exaggeration or hyperbole to state that the centre is a lifeline for those users and for those who love them and care for them.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to have the opportunity to raise a matter of significance and import that has caused considerable distress to some of the most vulnerable adults and families in my constituency of East Belfast and, by extension, to Health and Social Care (HSC) staff. I welcome the Minister of Health's presence this afternoon.”
“I assure Members that work is ongoing to shape a fair and legally sound model.”
“<BR /> <BR />I assure the House that we are exploring all avenues in relation to seeking contributions. In February, junior Minister Reilly and I met the Scottish Deputy First Minister, Kate Forbes, to discuss the Scottish approach. Interestingly, Scotland reports on contributions that are received and those that are not, but its scheme also involves a waiver as an incentive, and everything in its scheme is voluntary. We are also planning to meet Minister Norma Foley from the Irish Government on the same issue in the coming months.”
“It could raise compatibility issues with the European Convention on Human Rights and, in turn, create questions for us around the legislative competence of our Bill. There are also issues around property and those promoting current service, which could be jeopardised. There is a lot to think about, and a considered and informed decision is required. We are actively considering the Committee's proposed amendment to place a duty on the Department to publish a report on how contributions will be sought once the inquiry has concluded. We agree with the intention behind the proposal, but we reserve the right to bring forward our own amendment to best reflect the departmental policy and the legalities and to give us the best opportunity to maximise contributions.”
“I am very grateful to the Member for that question. Every right-thinking person has an expectation that institutions found to have caused harm or abuse should absolutely contribute, but timing is critical. Let me be clear: we are absolutely committed to seeking contributions from the organisations deemed responsible, but we must do so at the appropriate time and in a way that does not compromise the delivery of the scheme or the independence of the public inquiry. Where wrongdoing has been found, in my view, there is a moral obligation for institutions to contribute. It is the right thing to do. Society expects it, and, more significantly, for victims and survivors, it is an important aspect of accountability. <BR /> <BR />However, I must warn that trying to compel contributions through legislation would carry real risks.”
“The Department worked in conjunction with victims and survivors on the proposed process and sought appropriate nominations. Approximately 59 nominations were received, of which 29 were from victims and survivors. A shortlist has been agreed, and it is hoped that the inquiry chair designate will be in place as soon as practically possible.”
“The public inquiry will open as soon as possible after the primary and secondary legislation come into force. I have already outlined the time frame for the primary legislation, and the secondary legislation is progressing well. As I said, we are conscious of time, but we are eager to ensure that the decisions that we take, the processes that are in place and the outworkings of those are right for victims and survivors. <BR /> <BR />With regard to the appointment of the inquiry chair, in its interim report, the independent panel recommended that Ministers consider the early appointment of the chair of the public inquiry. We see a number of benefits to the early appointment of an inquiry chair designate and can confirm that work is ongoing to achieve that.”