Joanne Bunting
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Their input was instrumental in shaping the Bill that the Assembly will shortly be invited to pass. <BR /> <BR />For those affected by the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and related pathways and practices, the process has taken too long, but we can be pleased that we got there, for the victims' sakes.”
“It is still cruel, disheartening and difficult to fully comprehend. I hope that the experiences of the many women who were affected by those institutions and practices will serve as a challenge to us all.”
“We thank all who participated in the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum. We know that that has not always been an easy space, but we hope that, today, they can reflect on all their efforts with pride.”
“<BR /> <BR />To victims and survivors considering whether to engage with the redress service, I send an unequivocal message: the scheme exists because your experiences matter, and you need not face the process alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the experience did not end with the institution itself; rather, for the victims and survivors — those women and children — the period has been a thread of pain that has woven its way through their entire lives.”
“It is not an exaggeration to say that today is a momentous day. It is an honour and a privilege for me to move the Final Stage of this important legislation on behalf of the First Minister and the deputy first Minister, junior Minister Reilly and, indeed, the Executive.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,152 lines we hold for Joanne Bunting, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 16 of 24.
“<BR /> <BR />The draft statutory rule was considered at the Committee's meeting on 25 April 2024, during which it was noted that the Examiner of Statutory Rules had raised no concerns regarding the technical aspects of the rule. The Committee agreed to recommend that the draft statutory rule be approved by the Assembly. I, therefore, support the motion on behalf of the Committee for Justice. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak as justice spokesperson for the DUP. It was at my request that the Committee sought to establish the position on the provision of period products in other public-facing bodies in the Justice portfolio such as the Courts and Tribunals Service.”
“The Committee welcomed the Department's response, stating that, in addition to its statutory remit, it had written to the chief executives of its five agencies — the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service, the Northern Ireland Prison Service (NIPS), the Legal Services Agency Northern Ireland (LSANI), Forensic Science Northern Ireland (FSNI) and the Youth Justice Agency (YJA) — to ask whether they would be willing to consider introducing the provisions on a pilot basis to gather the views and expectations of their respective user groups and to inform affordability issues. The Committee was reassured to learn that the early indications are that the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service and the other agencies with public-facing areas are, indeed, willing to engage in pilot exercises.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having noted the legal advice, which stated that core Departments and statutory agencies do not meet the criteria of a public service provider as defined in the Period Products (Free Provision) Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, the Committee, nevertheless, wrote to the Department of Justice to request clarification of whether period products would be made available throughout the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service (NICTS) estate and other publicly accessible buildings that are within the Department's remit.”
“Again, I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion as Chairman of the Committee. I declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister said, the draft statutory rule specifies the public service bodies within the Department of Justice's remit that will be responsible for making and maintaining arrangements for period products to be available free of charge on their premises. The Committee was first alerted to the Department's intention to propose the rule at its meeting on 11 April and raised no issues with it doing so.”
“Therefore, on behalf of the Committee for Justice, I support the motion before the House. <BR /> <BR />In my capacity as an MLA, I reiterate my party's support for this rule, which brings lay magistrates into line with the rest of the judiciary.”
“We were informed that the eligibility criteria for the appointment of lay magistrates, as specified in the Lay Magistrates (Eligibility) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004, will still apply and that this draft statutory rule will add two criteria for reappointments: first, the individual must not have been removed from the role as a result of disciplinary proceedings or have been subject to pending disciplinary proceedings at the date of their retirement; secondly, the individual must be prepared to undergo training or continuing professional development identified as necessary or desirable for their role. That is to be welcomed. The Committee noted that the Examiner of Statutory Rules had raised no concerns regarding the technical aspects of the draft statutory rule.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak briefly on the motion as Chairperson of the Committee for Justice. I also declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister outlined, the draft statutory rule before the House makes provision to set the eligibility criteria for the reappointment of lay magistrates until the age of 75, after they were previously required to retire at the age of 70. That will bring lay magistrates into line with other members of the judiciary. <BR /> <BR />The Committee was first alerted to the Department's intention to propose this rule at its meeting on 21 March 2024 and raised no issues with it so doing. The Committee then considered the draft statutory rule at its meeting of 25 April 2024.”
“The issue is that there are tenants who have problems and other tenants who wilfully cause mayhem and misery wherever they live and wherever they are moved, and the Housing Executive is obliged to house them. Those tenants are persistent offenders, and it seems that the thresholds to deal with them are extremely high. What measures will the Minister take to ensure that whatever is brought forward will have the teeth needed to deal with people who wreck the reputations of given areas?”
“The Minister will be aware that those are difficult and controversial issues that often involve competing rights. Can the Minister give reassurance to the House about privacy in the home and that the PSNI will not be turned into the thought police?”
“I laid out my views and my party political position clearly during the previous Budget Bill debate. They are on the record for all to see and still hold true, so I will not take up the House's time by repeating them.”
“Members also raised the work undertaken by the Fiscal Council on the estimate of relative need for public spending in Northern Ireland, including the requirement for it to include additional security and justice costs that do not occur in Scotland, England or Wales. The Committee wishes to ensure that the case for additional funding to meet those unique requirements is being made to His Majesty's Treasury. <BR /> <BR />That is just a quick summary of the concerns raised during our initial briefings from the Department and key justice partners. The Committee expects full engagement with the Department on its budget and expenditure plans, particularly given the stark picture that has been painted in the evidence that we have received thus far.”
“In particular, the Committee drew attention to the fact that people often enter the justice system when their needs are not being more appropriately met by other parts of the public sector, such as the health service, due to demand there. Greater collaborative working may help to address some of those issues in a more appropriate and cost-effective manner. Moves towards policy- or needs-based budgeting could also be beneficial in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Members believe that multi-year Budgets would help to provide a degree of stability, not only for Departments and their bodies but for the community and voluntary sector, which often delivers vital services for the justice arena.”
“Given that a significant proportion of the Department's budget relates to staff and other fixed costs, and that the only flexibility remaining is around 5%, it is difficult to see what further measures it could take in that scenario to live within budget. The scope to manage budgetary pressures is extremely constrained, and members are concerned that important services may need to be cut, or indeed further cut, in order for the Department even to hope to live within its budget. <BR /> <BR />Having reflected on what we have heard to date, the Committee agreed to write to our home Department and the Minister of Finance to outline members' concerns.”
“<BR /> <BR />Those are just a few of the issues raised with the Committee, but concerns were also expressed by others, such as the Lady Chief Justice and the Probation Board, about the impact of funding constraints on the delivery of their services. All these matters are likely to affect us all, directly or indirectly, and will certainly impact on wider society. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the next financial year, the Committee considered the DOJ's response to the Department of Finance on its resource and capital requirements for 2024-25 at its meeting on 14 March. The Department of Justice indicated that a flat-cash budget settlement would mean that it would go into the new financial year with inescapable pressures of £444 million, which equates to 39% of its baseline.”
“The stagnant number of prison officers comes when the prison population is almost at its highest ever and is still increasing. That will inevitably impact on the ability to provide effective rehabilitation. Moreover, we are also approaching the lowest number of police officers since the formation of the PSNI, which is contrary to the New Decade, New Approach political agreement to grow the number of officers in the force to 7,500. <BR /> <BR />Members have also heard from the Bar Council and the Law Society that slowing down the payment of legal aid fees as a budget management tool has forced professionals to leave the Bar or shift away from legal aid work. They advised that that has disproportionately affected younger professionals and women and could threaten access to justice for many across Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />With regard to the 2023-24 financial year, as I mentioned in February, the vast majority of the Department's resource budget — around 95%, I believe — is taken up by the PSNI, the Prison Service, the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service and legal aid. There is very little scope to reduce spend without impacting on the delivery of vital services. Indeed, we are seeing the outworkings of some of that already. <BR /> <BR />Over the past year, the Department reduced its projected overspend from £149 million to £35 million. That was achieved by slowing spend across the sector and included, for example, suspending PSNI recruitment and not increasing the number of prison officers. Serious measures such as those come with serious consequences.”
“I declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />When I spoke in the Budget Bill debate in February, I noted that the Committee had not had the opportunity to consider the budget for the Department of Justice in any detail. I did, however, take the opportunity to reflect some of the concerns raised during the Committee's initial oral evidence session with the then permanent secretary. Since that time, the Committee has heard from various directorates in the Department and from a number of key justice organisations, and issues around the Department's financial position have been a recurring theme. It is safe to say that those discussions have done nothing to ease the Committee's early concerns.”
“The Minister will be aware that often the number of those with special educational needs are not included in the number of attendees at a school, thereby giving a false impression of the capacity and the spaces available at that school. Does the Minister have any plans to review that policy?”
“A significant problem remains with prescription drugs in our prison system, specifically those that prisoners look after and about which those in the Prison Service are not entitled to know because of patient confidentiality. What conversations has the Minister had with the Minister of Health to address that serious issue?”
“Where legitimate and beneficial changes have been found that can be built upon and legislated for properly, we should do that at the earliest opportunity. I have made my point about my preferences. Nevertheless, I understand the need and the requirement for live links to continue. In that circumstance, I support the extension.”
“<BR /> <BR />In addition, when one calculates the time frame involved to scrutinise and progress what, I anticipate, will be a sizeable first departmental Bill, one sees that it is inevitable that yet further extensions of the emergency coronavirus provisions will be required. It begs the question as to why a smaller, stand-alone Bill is not being brought forward and why, as a result of their inclusion in another sizeable Bill, in a most unusual step, the provisions will not be included in the Bill as printed and so will not be included in any calls for evidence. However, the Minister has clarified that. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we move away from reliance on emergency legislation deriving from the pandemic.”
“I remain concerned about the continued extension of emergency powers long after the pandemic, particularly since, by their nature, they were not rigorously scrutinised. Having been assured that provision would be made in the first Bill, some of us were somewhat taken aback to discover that the intention was only to bring forward such provision at Consideration Stage by way of an amendment. Again, I am grateful to the Minister for her clarification on that. There are some issues around live links that should be properly scrutinised to better inform guidance and practice, improve consistency of application and use, and consider equality of arms issues.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for her clarification and assurances, because the issue caused the Committee some consternation. No doubt, we will return to that discussion at a later stage. As you will appreciate, Minister, I will make some remarks on it as I continue. In the interim, on behalf of the Justice Committee, I support the motion. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to my remarks in my capacity as an individual MLA. First, I extend my best wishes for a speedy recovery to Mr Long. We served together on Castlereagh Borough Council and worked well there for many years. I was very sorry to hear of his recent ill health. I trust that the Minister will pass on my good wishes to her husband. <BR /> <BR />While, on a personal level, I support the principle and the requirement for live links and audio links, my issues are more around process.”
“While I thank the Department for its candour, bringing forward provisions at Consideration Stage is, nonetheless, far from ideal, as it means that those provisions cannot be included in the Committee's call for evidence and the Committee will not have the opportunity to undertake proper scrutiny at Committee Stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having considered the response from the Department, the Committee agreed that it was content to recommend that the Assembly approve the statutory rule. Before I conclude, I will say that, at its last meeting, the Committee discussed with departmental officials another proposal to further extend the provisions. The officials reiterated that they expect the permanent provision for live links to be in the first departmental Bill. However, it is unlikely that the necessary provisions will be drafted in time for inclusion in the Bill as introduced but will instead be tabled as amendments at Consideration Stage. I recognise that most Committee members are broadly supportive of the principle of the use of live links and agree that they should be a feature of our court system.”
“The Department's response was considered at the meeting of 29 February, when the Committee was advised that the Minister was satisfied that there remains a clear role for the continued use of the provisions in order to tackle the backlog of cases that have accrued during and since the pandemic and that may take until 2028 to clear without extra resources. The Department also advised that it is the Minister's intention to include provisions for the wider use of live links in the first Bill that it plans to introduce, which is anticipated before the summer recess. The Committee was assured that reliance on the powers that are in the Coronavirus Act 2020 is, therefore, an interim arrangement.”
“that followed it. <BR /> <BR />Members also noted that, towards the end of the previous mandate, the predecessor Committee considered the proposal for one of the earlier rules to extend similar provisions. At that time, the Committee was advised that the extension was part of a two-stage legislative approach, whereby the provisions would initially be extended by subordinate legislation and a Bill would be developed in order to make a permanent provision for the use of audio and video links. <BR /> <BR />The current Committee agreed to ask the Department for its views on whether the continued use of the powers in the Coronavirus Act 2020 is appropriate and proportionate in the post-COVID environment. The Committee also requested an update on the Department's plans to make permanent provision for the use of audio and video links.”
“She also stated that the use of successive statutory rules has:”
“The Committee further noted that, while the Examiner of Statutory Rules raised no concerns regarding the technical aspect of the rule, her first report had drawn attention to a number of statutory rules that are subject to the confirmatory resolution procedure, including this rule and those that preceded it. The Examiner stated:”
“I rise initially in my capacity as the Chairperson of the Committee for Justice and declare that I have an immediate family member who works in the legal profession. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister outlined, the statutory rule will extend the provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 that allow courts and statutory tribunals to receive evidence through audio or video links beyond this month, which is when they are set to expire. The Committee initially considered the rule at its second meeting, which was on 22 February. Members noted that the rule was the latest in a sequence of statutory rules extending those provisions.”
“We must keep a sense of perspective. Republican terrorists were responsible for 60% of the overall Troubles killings, loyalists for 30% and the security forces for 10%, not that the inquiries would convey that. <BR /> <BR />The interim report is unequivocal:”
“Typically, PIRA did not usually live up to its undertakings and executed many of those who, in a vain attempt to stay alive, made admissions. <BR /> <BR />The interim report states:”
“Mr Boutcher is frank, and there are some uncomfortable words for our state. However, the report lays bare the workings of PIRA, highlights the hypocrisy of its leaders and makes clear that some of the behaviours continue into the present day. I will let the report speak for itself. <BR /> <BR />Members of PIRA's internal security unit (ISU):”
“Eight years, £40 million, 50,000 pages of evidence on 101 murders and abductions by the Provisional IRA (PIRA), 35 files to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) and zero prosecutions: that is the state of play in the Operation Kenova interim report. It makes recommendations in respect of a range of criminal justice agencies, including the PPS and the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland (PONI), which will have implications for public confidence. Above all, it outlines the role of agents, the legitimate need for them, the importance of their work, the requirement for a degree of secrecy and, importantly, the extreme context in which they were operating at that time. <BR /> <BR />To quote the report:”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, given the emphasis on skills and apprenticeships and their importance to our economy, in such a climate, it is utter folly to even consider the closure of the Castlereagh college?”
“The Minister will be aware that the limitations on capacity are having a significant impact on planning and, therefore, growth and the provision of much-needed housing. For example, in my constituency, in Dundonald, all infrastructure, including roads, is at capacity, and there are subsequent problems with drainage and flooding. Will the Minister commit to the Living with Water scheme in Belfast in this financial year?”
“Going forward, what will be the wider impact of the Minister's decision on contracts? What will it mean for other Departments — for example, Justice — and the PSNI? What consideration did, and will, he give to those factors?”
“<BR /> <BR />We support the motion and welcome the focus on breaking down barriers to better engagement between those with speech, language and communication needs in our prisons and youth justice populations and those who care for them in justice settings and the many rehabilitative, restorative and educational programmes in which they participate.”
“Apologies. It is the new placement of the microphones. <BR /> <BR />It should also be noted that the strategic framework for youth justice for 2022-27 and the five-year action plan, led by the Department of Justice and the Youth Justice Agency, place little emphasis on SLCNs. There is perhaps a need for the Minister of Justice to revise those strategies and the operation of the regional care and justice campus to ensure that there is a focused strategy for breaking down communication and language barriers.”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of issues need concerted action. Training is only one part of the jigsaw. We need a sustained funding uplift for our prisons and the wider criminal justice system to ensure that sufficient numbers of trained allied health professionals are working alongside prison staff and to facilitate adequate and ongoing training for staff in justice settings.”
“There is little point in prison staff being equipped to communicate effectively with prisoners with SLCNs when external providers who deliver rehabilitative or educational initiatives lack the knowledge on how to identify and address the needs of that cohort. <BR /> <BR />Gaps in identifying SLCNs are also exacerbated when sufficient numbers of speech and language therapists are not being trained or in post, as others have mentioned. We have higher rates of SLT vacancies than Scotland and Wales. That limits what can be achieved in rolling out innovative multidisciplinary team-working in other aspects of the system where SLCNs could be addressed. The picture is not all one of gloom, however. Strides have already been made. Recent examples from Maghaberry prison have highlighted a good provision of speech and language therapy there.”
“Thanks, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Member is absolutely right. That is the point that I am trying to make and will go on to emphasise. <BR /> <BR />Interventions in justice settings, such as counselling or education programmes, are often verbal. Therefore, they disadvantage those with prior speech, language and communication needs. The knock-on effect is that those schemes are potentially less likely to contribute positively to reducing rates of reoffending if participants' difficulties and needs go undetected or are misinterpreted as general aggression. That is why a joined-up approach is needed, as the proposer mentioned.”
“They make their way to the pharmacy, something goes awry, the miscommunication cycle starts, and boom: they are tired and alone; they have nothing and nobody; they are afraid, anxious and frustrated; and their temper is lost. They are back to square one, defeated. It can feel as though we are teeing them up to fail.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the Budget debate yesterday, I mentioned prisoners having problems with addiction, anxiety, depression and their inability to control their emotions. That does not just go away. A prime example of what I describe can still arise on leaving prison. Until the point at which they are released, their life has been under the control and responsibility of others: then they leave. On exiting the gate, they may be sent to a hostel because they are homeless. That hostel can be far from home: I am talking about Belfast to Londonderry or Newry or vice versa. They may have no family support, but they are supposed to get there, while left to their own devices, via public transport, perhaps with a daily requirement for a prescription in Belfast.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many young people in justice settings who have speech and language communication needs (SLCNs) have grown up with multiple adverse childhood experiences, including deprivation and poverty, trauma, neglect and abuse. Many are care-experienced or looked-after children. Looked-after children have a much higher rate of involvement with the juvenile justice system than those in the general population. <BR /> <BR />Part of the issue is that the screening processes in prisons are still ineffective. There is no nationally used screening tool for communication needs. Prison staff receive limited training on those vulnerabilities, but we know that the failure to appropriately support people in prison can result in disruptive, aggressive or violent behaviour and increasing self-harm.”
“Some of the issues experienced by individuals in the justice system include difficulty understanding spoken words and using language to communicate; difficulties remembering and recalling information accurately; difficulty understanding commonly used legal vocabulary, such as "liable", "remorse", "reparation", "threatening" or "victim"; difficulties in listening and understanding; difficulty with sequencing information to tell a story; difficulties using abstract language, such as metaphors; difficulties staying on topic; difficulties understanding non-verbal communication and relating to others in socially acceptable ways; and difficulty expressing feelings and emotions appropriately, for example, they may use aggressive behaviour instead of words to express themselves.”
“This is a really interesting topic, and I am grateful to the Members for bringing it forward. At the outset, it may be helpful to contextualise: over 60% of people in prison have speech, language and communication needs, which is a higher figure than is found among the general population.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I reiterate the need to move to three-year Budgets as quickly as possible. Those in the community sector who do invaluable work in our constituencies are having to spend a great deal of their time seeking funding for their posts when they would rather focus on their projects. Moreover, nobody wants to go into the sector because of the instability and difficulty in accessing credit and mortgages. It is time that we moved to help them, stabilised their employment prospects and allowed for strategic direction and planning in order to ensure best value.”
“In over 20 years, at least seven or eight reports have been written about the under-attainment of Protestant working-class boys, and the proposal is to close a college in their heartland that has a long and illustrious history of bringing back to education those who were disenfranchised by it through their experience in school. The college has given many young people opportunities because of a different way of learning. Moreover, if our economy is to grow, the teaching of skills is essential to that growth. To remove the most accessible college that Belfast Met has, when there is insufficient space to accommodate those classes in other campuses, is appalling, regressive and detrimental to Northern Ireland plc at a time when contracts are being awarded to firms such as Harland and Wolff.”
“Beyond the big five, they are finding it impossible to find graduates to take up roles in any area of law beyond corporate law, because people want a career, prospects, a good salary and not to have to go to a police station at 3.00 am to conduct an interview. There are weighty issues facing the legal profession, and, as a result, our society, because, at the worst of times, everybody is entitled to a defence and due process. <BR /> <BR />I want to move to a subject outside of Justice: the proposed closure of Castlereagh college as a result of a lack of funds for capital work. That is a shortsighted, discriminatory and regressive proposal.”