Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“I hope that the Member, and indeed others, support the idea that I have floated, which is that we should go back to the Republic of Ireland's Government to get the £400 million. If we do not, there may not be any money for a road safety scheme elsewhere in your constituency. Whenever maintenance is needed to re-tar a large section of another road, guess what? There may not be any money for it. I am saying that there needs to be balance. We need to look carefully at what is being planned and go back to the promises that were made and see that they are delivered so that the rest of the roads in Northern Ireland can be protected. <BR /> <BR />Road safety schemes throughout Northern Ireland need to continue to be provided, because you will find that, elsewhere, when all the money is in one area, road safety schemes have no budget.”
“I recognise the importance of investment in new roads throughout Northern Ireland. I have no difficulty acknowledging that hundreds of millions of pounds need to be spent to upgrade the A5. The point that I am making is this: can we afford the £1,059 million for it? If we are to commit that, over what period will we commit it? What sections should be prioritised? Have we reassessed it, given that it will now cost four times the amount that was originally committed? Does the original business case for a brand new dual carriageway the whole way still follow? Should the road be dualled and flyovers built over parts of the existing route? Is it really wise that the proposal is to bypass the new multimillion-pound roundabout at the end of the M1 at Ballygawley and build another one?”
“It is for that reason that the Republic of Ireland's Government initially came forward with their generous offer to try to encourage its completion. However, if we commit all capital funds to this road, we will need to be very careful. I ask the Minister to undertake to engage with the Government of the Irish Republic when, eventually, they are in place, whether that be before or after another election, and require them, some of whom may be his colleagues — who knows? — to pay up that which they originally promised. The road will benefit the people of Donegal.”
“I also want to raise a particular issue about the A5 with the Minister. In 2007, we were told that it would cost £650 million. The Republic of Ireland's Government had committed £400 million, so it was to cost the Northern Ireland Executive £250 million. I understand that the latest estimate for the A5, as of December 2019, is £1,139 million. However, only £75 million will come from the Republic of Ireland. Therefore, it will not cost the Executive £250 million; it will cost the Executive £1,059 million. That is over four times the original cost, and it is to come from our limited capital funds. <BR /> <BR />We have to bear in mind that the A5 is an important route that goes not only to Omagh and Londonderry, but to Donegal.”
“I suspect that it would be much more efficient to plan for the long term over a longer period and where there is no pressure or rush. <BR /> <BR />In recent Committee meetings, departmental officials have highlighted that the Executive have their flagship programmes. Essentially, we were advised that the capital fund has to be used for the flagship programmes, and then we will see what is left after that for other things. We need to reassess what we do with flagship programmes, especially when we do not have money to maintain the finished surfaces that we generate. We are out of kilter. More and more money is spent on flagship programmes, and inadequate funds have been spent on maintenance.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also have to recognise that the middle of winter is not the best time to tarmac surfaces. You do not get best value for money, and you get no length of time out of that new surface. It is difficult to get tarmac to last a long time if it is put down in wet and icy conditions. Icy conditions are probably a no-no, but, even in wet conditions, while I am sure that there are additives that improve the outcomes, it would be much better if it were done at warmer times of the year. <BR /> <BR />Contractors could employ their staff throughout the year. How do you suddenly put together a contract team in January when money has been released? That is very difficult. It is challenging, and contractors may have difficulty in putting those teams together at the last minute. There may not be the same level of competition.”
“There will be many other motorists who have damaged their car but may not have applied for compensation as they may not have been able to prove that the potholes were specifically responsible for the damage to their car. As a result of the poor surface on Browns Bay Road in my constituency, 115 cars have been damaged and compensation claimed, which is a remarkable number. <BR /> <BR />Over the past number of years, road maintenance has relied on in-year monitoring. It is good that additional moneys can go towards road maintenance through in-year monitoring, but it would be much better if it came in a planned process throughout the year, which would reduce the pressure on contractors. Recently, there have been almost daily announcements of road surfacing schemes, and some of the recent money that has been released is being spent.”
“It is a main route through the area and quite a busy road. In three different years, contractors have resurfaced part of the road. That has involved travel time and bringing all their equipment to the Ballyvernstown Road on three different occasions, and there is still a section that is in very poor condition. The surface is poor and disintegrating, and I suspect that the contractors will be back again next year. That is, at least, better than purely addressing potholes, but it is not a good way to deliver road maintenance. It is much better if they simply tarmac the road as it was needed in the first place. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned potholes. I understand that, between 2016 and 2019, some £1·7 million was spent on compensation to motorists. That is for motorists who can prove that potholes that were not fixed promptly damaged their car.”
“There are choices to be made, and I want to hear what he sees as the solution, because the capital has to be found so that the local economy is not held back. <BR /> <BR />I turn to transport infrastructure, particularly the road maintenance budget, which, I understand, is in the order of £75 million. That is approximately half of that which is recommended to maintain our road infrastructure in an efficient manner. When you underinvest in road maintenance, road surfaces decline everywhere and potholes develop. That results in Roads Service having to carry out expensive, unplanned emergency pothole repairs. Workers travel to a specific site and carry out a small piece of work. The Ballyvernstown Road, which is a short distance from my home, has been in poor condition for about 10 years.”
“In particular, the Larne water treatment works servicing the town of Larne and that immediate catchment area has been committed to its capacity, and new developments are being held back. That stops new homes being built and even stops businesses expanding. If there is an additional sewerage requirement, those businesses cannot expand unless they undertake significant individual treatment works for their premises, which is just not viable. That is also happening in 100 other locations in Northern Ireland. It is widespread, and it affects our economy. It is not good enough to say that we have a problem: what I want to hear from the Finance Minister is the options for a solution. That is what we need to hear. There is no point saying for ever and a day, "No, no, no".”
“Nevertheless, Northern Ireland Water is a Go-co and has to follow public-sector requirements to an extent, but it also has to follow company law and cannot run for ever at a loss. That is a pressure, but of even more concern to me with Northern Ireland Water is the urgent need for many hundreds of millions of pounds to invest in capital infrastructure. Again, it does not appear that the funding coming from the normal sources through the Exchequer will allow all that is needed to be done here to be completed. At present, there are some 100 areas of Northern Ireland where new planning approvals are not being made because of inadequate sewerage infrastructure.”
“Again, there are limited funds available to the Executive and to each Minister, and the choices that they make in spending money elsewhere mean that money is not available for housing, because it is all under the limited capital funds that come to the Executive. We have to free up what is possible to draw in additional resources. <BR /> <BR />I will now concentrate my remarks on the Department for Infrastructure, the Committee for which I serve on, and will highlight three key areas that need urgent attention. Northern Ireland Water needs urgent investment. First, there is a real pressure on its resource funding — the annual expenditure — of some £7 million. That is largely a result of the rates revaluation process that the Finance Department recently completed.”
“The insistence in the past that they would operate as they were, almost within the Department and entirely reliant on public funds and with restrictions, has limited what is available. <BR /> <BR />We need to think of fresh ways of maximising how capital can be attracted, so that we improve our housing stock going forward, and it is not about selling off Housing Executive houses to the private sector. What about the idea of creating a mutual organisation, letting tenants, through housing associations, run their areas by being able to draw in additional funds and improve the housing stock?”
“The converse is the truth. I am just highlighting that the Assembly has never really looked at other fresh ways of managing our public expenditure or how our public bodies might be entitled to raise money. Housing is an obvious example. At present, the Housing Executive is almost treated as a public body within the Department; it is funded from the public purse and is limited in what it can spend. The housing associations that are dependent on public funds have also been included in public expenditure; in other words, that limits what they can do, and there is a need to create greater freedom for those organisations. For instance, they might become entitled to the financial transaction funds, which were recently returned to the Treasury, rather than the people of Northern Ireland benefiting from them.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that, when we discuss the Vote on Account and the Budget Bill, we plan carefully. Several Members have talked about austerity — it was mentioned by the previous Member — and the size of the Northern Ireland block grant. We all wish we had greater funds and flexibility, but we cannot live in dreamland. We can lobby for our funds, but, ultimately, the Government decide, and we are given provision to determine how to spend, as are all the other devolved regions. We also have some limited choices as to how we can raise funds locally. There has to be responsible government here and recognition of a pressure not just to spend money but to spend money wisely.”
“It is important that there is a healthy Budget process. It is important for democracy that the community is engaged in the Budget process. One of the most meaningful decisions that any Assembly makes is how its money will be spent and how it will be raised. It is vital that there is proper and detailed engagement with the public. From discussions that I had prior to the return of devolution, I understood that the Department of Finance had developed an online tool — some sort of app — that would make it possible to more meaningfully engage the public. From having spoken to contacts, I was expecting that to be initiated prior to Christmas, but we have not heard anything. The public has not been engaged in this issue, but I hope that, in the future, it will be.”
“In that paper, the Committee set out 15 initial recommendations for discussion related to key issues and concerns. The Minister was Chair of that Committee, and it is sad that, since then, Ministers have not, as far as I am aware, addressed the concerns that were raised.”
“I draw the Minister's attention to a report of the Finance and Personnel Committee dated 18 January 2012, which said that there was:”
“That is what has happened in Scotland and other devolved regions. There would then be a couple of months of real engagement with the public, and the public would have a better understanding of what the Budget meant. Then, the public could lobby all politicians so that their priorities would be recognised rather than those of political parties or politicians.”
“A Bill would literally have been presented in January or February — very, very late on — but the public would have been engaged from October onwards.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Budget Bill regularises public expenditure for 2019-2020 and authorises 45% of that expenditure to be given to each Department until a detailed breakdown of expenditure of the 2020-21 Budget is approved later in the year. Given that legislative authorisation to fund public bodies and pay staff must be in place before the beginning of April, we have little choice but to approve the Bill, despite recognising that there are many flaws in the process. The public should have been engaged in the detailed outworking of the Budget. What, actually, do some of the high-level figures represent? I highlight to Members that, when I first came to the Assembly, the Budget processes did not start in January or February, because that is the last time that a Budget could be approved here.”
“In commenting on the Budget Bill, I too express my concern at the current Budget process. The Budget Bill is one of the key legislative approvals for the expenditure of our public funds. During the past three years, Ministers have not been in place to manage consultation on the various budgets and how public money has been spent in Northern Ireland. We also need to recognise that, during the past decade, even when Ministers were in place, there has been inadequate consultation and meaningful engagement with the public so that government expenditure represents public priorities rather than any individual political party's priority.”
“Does the Member recognise that there was a world economic decline in 2008? Less money was available to all Governments, except, of course, in Venezuela, which went bust. Does he recognise that it is important that Governments act prudently to protect the long-term interests of the public?”
“Does the Minister acknowledge that it takes the school, the parent and the community to educate a child and that high levels of poor attendance often show that there are problems, not just at school? Will he liaise with educational welfare, schools and local councils, which have their community plans, on the issue and on the importance of involving all the community?”
“In the home-to-school transport review, has there been an acknowledgement that many bus stops are inadequate? There may not be a safe location off-road, and those buses serving many villages and hamlets do not even have a shelter where young people can take cover from the winter storms. Will the Minister undertake to engage with other Ministers, particularly the Minister for Infrastructure, to see how the situation can be improved?”
“I thank the Minister for highlighting the problem that exists in wildlife and how TB can adversely affect wildlife as well as our farmers. The Minister mentioned deer: has there been any testing or consideration of testing deer herds in Northern Ireland or, for that matter, any wild deer that may have been found dead at the roadside to establish whether this is a problem in the deer population in Northern Ireland?”
“Given the legal aspect involved, will the Minister also review the contracts of those who were responsible for maintaining the equipment in MOT centres and failed to spot the flaws that have caused such disruption?”
“<BR /> <BR />It is vital that we get engaged and do not sign up to anything without knowing the detail and without being fully aware of the adverse implications that the withdrawal agreement could have on our businesses, our people and our overall economy. It is for that reason that I am happy to support the motion and reject the proposed withdrawal agreement. There is a lot of work to do. We have to accept that this decision has been made, but we must try to mitigate and minimise disruption to our people and our businesses going forward.”
“If we have any delays, those will reduce the shelf life, and the industry may not be able to maintain its contracts. At the very least, there is potential for a reduction in the value of our agri-food products because they have a shorter shelf life. Therefore, we must ensure that there are no undue delays as our goods move to other markets. <BR /> <BR />There is then the whole issue of a customs border potentially being created for goods coming from Scotland to Northern Ireland. Will that put people off using that route for some of our goods? Alternatively, will supermarkets be forced to buy more expensive goods from elsewhere in the EU and the Republic, which is not what we are used to doing?”
“What infrastructure will have to be built for additional inspections to take place? Will the car parks in Belfast, Larne and Warrenpoint be big enough? Will lorries be delayed? Will the agri-food industry, which moves time-sensitive products to supermarkets throughout the rest of the United Kingdom, be able to meet its contracts? <BR /> <BR />I previously visited a significant distribution point in my constituency and became aware of just how detailed and important time management is for the agri-food industry. If a container arrives late at a distribution point, it is rejected. The manufacturer then bears the cost because it has not met its contract. What would happen to our mushrooms, which have a very limited shelf life? I use mushrooms just as an example. Supermarkets want products with the maximum shelf life.”
“<BR /> <BR />The agreement provides for the setting up of a joint committee, which is a new mechanism for regulations governing Northern Ireland to be established, bypassing the Assembly and Westminster. It will be made up of officials who are appointees from Europe and the UK, and it will determine how we are governed. That could have a very significant adverse effect if the practical outworkings of some of their decisions are not foreseen. It is therefore important that Northern Ireland and the Assembly have a significant input into the joint committee, yet there are no details and there has been no talk about how that will happen. We cannot agree on what is deemed to be the withdrawal agreement so far. <BR /> <BR />There are some very practical implications for businesses, and, indeed, for my constituency, at the port of Larne.”
“I, too, support the motion. I do not consent to a border being drawn down the Irish Sea, with the additional bureaucracy that will flow with it, both in regulations and in differences between ourselves and the rest of the United Kingdom, which, I highlight, is our biggest market, particularly for our agri-food industry. We must ensure that difficulties that could arise from the agreement are ironed out or avoided. Nevertheless, we all have to accept that a decision has been taken by the British people and by Parliament. That is the reality, whether you voted for or against Brexit. We must ensure that our economy, our people and our businesses are not adversely affected by the withdrawal agreement.”
“Does the Member accept that, if that were the case, that would be a breach of the Belfast Agreement and Northern Ireland's position in the United Kingdom would be changed? Will she accept that even this proposal of Boris Johnson's is changing what was agreed and is not following the Belfast Agreement and that what she proposes will be opposed by unionists because we are part of the United Kingdom, even though we dislike what is proposed in Boris Johnson's deal?”
“Can he also assure us that services will be speedily implemented and improved?”
“I congratulate the Minister on his appointment to a challenging post and for his swift engagement with his Executive colleagues, his departmental staff and the trade unions. I hope that we can bring the dispute to an end, have fair pay for our valued healthcare staff and ensure that, in the future, there will be safe working conditions for them all. <BR /> <BR />The Minister indicates in his statement that there are 7,000 vacancies in the Health and Social Care structure — quite an enormous number — and that transformation is one of the reasons for those vacancies. Can he assure us that, in moving forward, there will be more advance planning, so that staff will be trained in a timely fashion and, when change occurs, we are not left with vacancies and forced to employ expensive locums?”
“I, too, congratulate the Minister on his appointment and wish him well. <BR /> <BR />There are huge pressures on school budgets. That is particularly the case where there have been school amalgamations and schools continue to operate on multiple sites. In the Minister's statement, he indicated that some 59 schools, over a three-year period, had benefited from £145 million. Will the Minister advise how that, along with the new build programme, prioritises and encourages school amalgamations, which can bring about improvements to educational outcomes for our children and young people as well as savings for the Department? At the same time, Minister, can you give an update on the progress in the redevelopment of Islandmagee Primary School, which has already taken over a decade?”
“I am willing to take up the office of vice Chair.”
“Yes, I am willing to accept the nomination.”
“Will the Speaker acknowledge that the changes to the procedures in this Assembly for the appointment of the First Minister and the deputy First Minister have actually put a blockage in the system where one or other of the big parties can prevent the establishment of the Executive and thereby they are abusing their position of power?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will the Speaker acknowledge that it is the changes that were brought into the running of this Assembly and the appointment of the First Minister and the deputy First Minister following St Andrews that have created this impasse?”
“Will the Member acknowledge that it is even more important than that? When SpAds deal with senior civil servants, they are deemed to be acting on behalf of the Minister, so they have great authority and thus it is especially important that their behaviour is scrutinised.”
“Does the Member agree that the importance of this issue is that it should also bring in the accountability of SpAds? In the Red Sky affair, there was a recommendation that a full, formal disciplinary investigation should occur because there was sufficient evidence. The Minister refused to allow that to happen. Does he agree that it is important that the responsibility for SpAds be brought under scrutiny as well?”
“I thank my colleague Sandra Overend for sharing the concerns of the Black family and her constituents at the release and how that has brought the case to the fore again. I also thank Members whom I have not managed to mention for their contributions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Lord Morrow highlighted the unusually long time taken before cases come forward, which, again, is very valid.”
“Alex Attwood visited the family of prison officer Black and shared his sympathy with them. He highlighted the fact that damage is being done to the criminal justice system but pointed out that it has to be balanced. <BR /> <BR />Trevor Lunn indicated his support for the motion, for which I thank him. He also highlighted the excessively long time that it is taking to bring this case to court, which is a valid concern. Our Court Service and our justice system must get that sorted out, because it may have contributed to this case. As I said, this was highlighted in May last year, and what has happened? Very little, it would appear. We need to move forward and make sure that we do not get into a situation where those accused of serious offences are granted bail.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, which moves me on nicely to the next contributor to the debate, Declan Kearney. He said that you could not tighten up bail conditions because of the Human Rights Act. Let us remember that human rights are balanced: rights and responsibilities. We must protect the rights of the ordinary citizens who will be exposed to risks from the release of those accused of being involved in terrorist activities, particularly if they are released on very flimsy bail conditions that they ignore.”
“I welcome the fact that it has happened, and we will wish to hear a more definite outcome, to ensure that, when someone breaches his bail conditions on 18 November, it will not take until 23 December for that to be spotted. If someone is required to sign in at a police station and fails to do so, on that same day, it should be reported as a breach of a bail condition. <BR /> <BR />Keith Buchanan highlighted the case of someone charged in connection with the murder of Adrian Ismay. He breached his bail conditions five times before bail was revoked.”
“Will we treat that case with the seriousness that it deserves? I agree with the Member that we need to question why bail is given in such situations. Where bail is given, there is a clear need for very strict bail conditions and for them to be rigorously implemented. <BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie contrasted the offer of bail conditions to someone accused of the murder of prison officer David Black with not allowing a 75-year-old veteran to vary his bail conditions to go on holiday. You would not think that there was a high risk of a 75-year-old veteran absconding to another jurisdiction. The public are concerned at the inconsistency in our criminal justice system, and a single bail Act might help the situation. <BR /> <BR />In connection with the same case, a major review of the role of the police was needed.”
“We all seem to be operating under the European Court. However, the legislation deemed to be satisfying it in England and Wales deals severely with those involved in violence in order to try to protect the public — not so in Northern Ireland. We need that to change. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the comments of Members who addressed today's debate. I thank Doug Beattie for tabling the motion. He pointed out that terrorism continues and that we need to be consistent in our message that we are against it. He highlighted the case of David Black, which was very poignant, given the violent attack on police officers in north Belfast just this week. We need to think about how we deal with those who, hopefully, will be charged with that murder and brought to court through the criminal justice system.”
“Northern Ireland therefore lacks a single bail Act. The Minister's response also states:”