Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“I think that that is the correct wording. Regard has to be given to them, but we should not necessarily slavishly follow everything that is there. I am content with that wording. If there is international good practice, we should try to follow it, but we should not follow everything slavishly. We have to satisfy ourselves that it makes sense. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to amendment No 2, which requires cooperation between different authorities that are working with children and young people. This is essential, and, in my previous experience of working in this area, I have come across some quite surprising things.”
“I will turn to amendment No 1. The idea of trying to improve children's well-being is important, and we must look at a wide range of activities. I note that new clause 1A(3) states:”
“I can see, in his amendments, that he is still trying to achieve the original objectives but perhaps in a more practical and workable fashion by altering the wording.”
“In that, I support the Bill and the amendments to it. We must not only invest more in the young but make better use of the money that we invest. <BR /> <BR />I thank Steven for his efforts. The Bill is the right direction of travel, and Mr Agnew's detailed engagement with officials and the Committee have helped to refine it.”
“I declare an interest. I am the chair of the Carrickfergus children and young people's locality group, which works with a range of government agencies and the voluntary sector. The group feeds into the Northern Ireland Children and Young People's Strategic Partnership. I am a committee member of Horizon Sure Start, which tries to assist expectant mothers and parents with children of nought-to-four years. I am also a Boys' Brigade officer and a governor of Glynn Primary School. I have a general interest in this area and feel that it is very important. <BR /> <BR />I am minded of information that I received about Professor James Heckman and the importance of investing in the young. I see that the Bill tries to avoid duplication. The amendments require cooperation and aim to get better value for money.”
“Any drugs addiction that was either developed or fed whilst a prisoner was in jail increases the likelihood of them committing a criminal act on their release and their return to prison. What progress has been made with regard to those recommendations relating to reducing the misuse of drugs in the prison population?”
“I, too, believe that it is important that there is total transparency on this issue. Will the Minister assure the House that she will put into the public domain any involvement that her Department had with NAMA and, in particular, the fees that were part of the sale to Cerberus and Pimco? Will she put all that into the public domain? That does not prejudice anybody; it simply provides transparency for the public.”
“I declare an interest, in that I have a son attending a local university and a daughter at a GB university. Regarding new students selecting their university, is the Minister aware of the differences in tuition fees between Northern Ireland and GB encouraging more people to come here? I think that the annual tuition fees in Northern Ireland are £3,805 as opposed to £9,000 in GB. Is there any evidence of students from elsewhere coming to Northern Ireland and ultimately displacing some of our students, who as a result may not be able to attend courses here and may be forced to attend courses elsewhere, paying £9,000, as well as the additional costs associated with studying further away from home?”
“The Minister has commissioned capital expenditure on a post-primary school for 14 pupils, rather than those children continuing to be educated in specialist Irish language units at existing post-primary schools. Does he not understand that, when he spends money in new schools, there is less money available for capital expenditure to maintain the existing schools with specialist Irish language units?”
“Does the Member accept that when patients are not treated in a timely fashion, many end up at A&E and contribute to the growing waiting lists there? I notice that, for example, in Antrim this July only 61·3% of patients were seen within four hours, and that is not in the middle of winter pressures.”
“— and that 92·9% are seen and treated within 18 weeks. We need to change our system. We need better value for money and decisions to be made so that our constituents are better served.”
“Everybody needs to work together to get solutions and to get treatment faster. With that faster treatment will come more efficient systems and more patients treated in a better manner. <BR /> <BR />I was astounded when I read that report from England. It tells us that 1·9% of patients wait more than six weeks for a diagnostic test —”
“<BR /> <BR />How do we compare to other parts of the National Health Service? I had a look at the NHS England publication that came out around the same time — July 2015 — to see how it has been doing. As the Chair of the Health Committee said, England, Scotland and Wales do not operate with multiple queues and waiting times that are frequently breached. They have a referral time that is not to the next queue but to treatment. The important thing to a patient is this: when am I going to be treated? That is a very sensible measurement, which forces all the various cogs in the health service to work together to find solutions to get the patient treated quicker. <BR /> <BR />At this time, we have this fragmented service, where everybody gets parked in a different queue, and somebody then blames somebody else.”
“I think of the simple example of diabetes, an issue that arose when I was on the Health Committee. Insufficient money was being put into providing the advice and support service so that diabetics could better look after themselves. What has been the net result? Our failure to invest in that service has meant that we have higher levels of amputations than other places. Particularly at that time, the Northern Health and Social Care Trust, which covers my area, had a higher number of amputations. There was a higher likelihood of having a limb amputated in the Northern Trust area than in any other part of Northern Ireland because of the then inadequacy of the service. I believe that the situation has improved a bit since then, but we need to do lots of smart things to ensure that people are treated quickly.”
“That is what is obviously happening here. Let us be very clinical about this: that is causing more treatment in the NHS because people's conditions are worsening and more money has to be spent trying to put the problem right once the patient gets to the front of the multiple queues.”
“In July 2015 30,000 people were waiting for nine weeks or more. After that, you have to wait for your diagnostic report to come through. I see that 95% are completed within two weeks, but that is still a time delay. Ninety-nine per cent must wait for four weeks, so there is a section of people waiting even longer. <BR /> <BR />The next queue is the inpatient admission queue, in which there are 60,000 people who have been assessed as needing treatment and needing to be admitted to hospital. That is up 20% on the previous year. Almost half of those people have been waiting for more than 13 weeks, and a quarter more than 26 weeks. It is queue after queue after queue, and, as my colleague Jo-Anne Dobson highlighted, delays cause concern to patients and their families, but, worse than that, their conditions can often deteriorate.”
“I recall a clinician talking recently about the situation in the health service, and he compared it to an airport where the aeroplanes were being parked on the grass or on the tarmac and were not being allowed to take off. Essentially, we manage our health service in Northern Ireland by parking patients in not just one queue but multiple queues. There are 212,000 people in the queue to get a first appointment, which is up almost 46% on a year ago. That must be of concern to everybody. There are 10,000 patients in the queue for an integrated clinical assessment and treatment (ICAS) and diagnosis. There are almost 90,000 people, up 11% on the previous year, in the queue for the specialist diagnostic service, which provides clinicians with additional information to get to the root of the problem.”
“I support the motion. There are 375,000 people waiting. These are citizens who are in ill health and may well be suffering along with their family. That represents 20% of the population, which is quite stark when you think about it in those terms. This would not be tolerated in England, Scotland or Wales, so why do we tolerate it in Northern Ireland? <BR /> <BR />The DUP, which controls the Health and Finance Departments, is exposed for its underfunding of the health service and failure to act on the warnings that were given by Michael McGimpsey when he indicated what lay ahead with the Budget that was approved by many who are now complaining.”
“I had hoped that the Member would know that gas is not available to most villages and towns.”
“Can the Minister justify to the arts sector, particularly to those groups that have suffered 20% cuts, why they have had to endure reduced funding this year or even had funding withdrawn in-year while she is able to find additional capital funding for the Dungiven area related to the Londonderry City of Culture? What measure of sustainability is being used to ensure that, in the future, money will be available for all groups?”
“— given the difficulties that exist in the rural community and the current financial situation in agriculture. <BR /> <BR />I am open to looking at change, and I support the motion.”
“I commend the MARA project for the work it has carried out over the years in trying to identify those in need who may not have taken up all their benefit entitlement and trying to give them help and advice. That has been a worthwhile project, and there will be a need for it going forward, particularly at this time —”
“Whether they travel on the limited public transport available, hire a taxi or use vehicles that families are forced to keep on the road as the only means of getting to their local town or village. <BR /> <BR />There is also the issue of heating. Gas is widely recognised as the most efficient method of heating, but it is not available in every rural household. That is just an outworking of the practicalities of gas supply. There are undoubtedly additional costs to living in rural communities.”
“The motion criticises the wrong group. NISRA appears to be saying that it is not holding anything up: it is the politicians in OFMDFM. We cannot criticise the statisticians when the political direction has not been given. Those who tabled the motion should have been aware of that, and, rather than criticising statisticians, recognised that the failing is in OFMDFM. <BR /> <BR />Going forward, local councils will play an increasing role in this area as they take a wider interest in community planning. I hope that that will be the case. There are particular challenges in rural communities at present. There is an obvious additional cost to every individual and every family living in a rural community when they have to travel, no matter what they do.”
“The most accurate measurement is of individuals and individual households: for example, in my constituency, Glenfield estate in Carrickfergus has been widely recognised over the years as an area of need, but its need has been masked by its location in an otherwise relatively affluent area — certainly, more affluent areas neighbour the estate. There are problems with whatever method is used. <BR /> <BR />When I tried to read up on this, I noted something in the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development's position paper on DARD's anti-poverty and social inclusion programme. NISRA has told the Committee that Wales has just provided an update and advised that it is waiting for — guess who? — OFMDFM and the statistics coordinating group, which is a cross-departmental group, to give direction on the way forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />I note from the information pack provided to us by the Library, for which I am grateful, that, in the past, the statistics were produced using methodology developed by the Social Disadvantage Research Centre at the University of Oxford. They follow a methodology similar to those used to produce multiple deprivation figures for England, Scotland and Wales. It is important that we know what the need in Northern Ireland is relative to other parts of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />There is wide recognition that not all deprived people lived in a deprived area, and, similarly, not all people in a deprived area are deprived. There is no perfect indicator: once you get away from the individual or the household to spatial areas, you lose a degree of accuracy.”
“First, I recognise the professional manner in which the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency collects statistics to ensure that they are robust. This research was carried out in a very professional manner, which means that we are working with figures that are as accurate as possible. <BR /> <BR />When I look through the 52 indicators, I see a degree of validity in each one of them: a reason why it has been included. I do not think that there is a need for vast change, although there may be a need for tweaking. Certainly, like my colleague, I am open to taking a good look at and re-evaluating them. However, any change will need to stand up to scrutiny, not only from rural communities but from those in need in urban communities.”
“Coming from a rural area, I have a degree of sympathy for the Member in wanting a review, but can he indicate which other deprivation indices he wishes to reduce in order to increase proximity to services?”
“— with an average salary of almost £48,000. Clearly, we need to hold them to account, but to do nothing is not a proper approach.”
“—and officers to account. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned by the increasing numbers of level 8 and 9 staff. Level 8 staff numbers have increased from 36 to, I think, 66 over the last three years —”
“It is disappointing that there is an insufficient number of new social housing houses being built under the Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />That is not to say that everything is rosy and perfect, but we have opportunities to question the Minister, when he is with us. We have Question Time. We can pose questions to the Housing Executive management, and the board members of the Housing Executive can hold their chief executive —”
“Like every other public body, the Assembly has required that savings be made so that more money will be able to achieve more. More money should get to the coalface and should be spent on tenants, rather than on burdensome management systems. As with welfare reform, Sinn Féin wants to avoid any change and to avoid taking any decisions, even though this situation is not acceptable. We want money to be spent where it benefits tenants, not on bureaucratic structures. <BR /> <BR />There are other pressures. New social houses need to be built, and there is insufficient stock. Change has to be looked at to enable that to happen, and we need to be open to new models. I am not aware of any decisions on that, but there have to be discussions and decisions.”
“It is easier to put the handbrake on and just sit there. Let us be very straight about the situation: doing nothing creates problems; doing nothing does not solve the pressures; and doing nothing creates more problems. That has to be factored in by those who decide to do nothing. <BR /> <BR />Let us remember that the Assembly has brought about change affecting the Housing Executive. We have had the reorganisation of local government. The community planning role has now been transferred to local government, and I understand that, all being well, town centre regeneration and community development will transfer by 1 April 2016. Change is afoot. The Assembly is bringing about change, and the Housing Executive cannot sit with its previous set-up.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the PwC recommendations was that there should be clear separation of the strategic and regulatory functions. The landlord function commenced in the restructuring from April 2014. I can see that there is a logic to that; there are clear lines of responsibility and accountability. There is now a quasi-public authority — an arm's-length body — acting as landlord. <BR /> <BR />What does Sinn Féin want to do? They want to hold everything. I wonder whether that is for four more years or for longer. The debate has been going on for four years. I would be very interested if they had come with concrete proposals in their motion, but the motion wants to hold everything to talk about it. They are not suggesting in detail what needs to be changed and how they will solve the problem.”
“In some ways, that sums up all that is wrong with Sinn Féin's attitude and all that is wrong with the partners in the Northern Ireland Executive and their Programme for Government, which is bringing about change. <BR /> <BR />All this change really started to get rolling with the 2011 PwC report, which highlighted the pressures on public housing. A debate started at that point, which was four years ago. It highlighted the need to refocus and adapt the current situation and to look at how the Housing Executive was organised. It also highlighted that there were insufficient funds to generate, renew and maintain Housing Executive properties over the next 30 years. There have been numerous consultations by the Department for Social Development, which has allowed a dialogue to happen.”
“I, too, commence by paying tribute to the work of the Housing Executive over the past number of decades. It has brought about great improvements, and I have personally seen constructive work by local managers to improve communities in my constituency. That is not to say that there are no problems. Indeed, there have been many problems, particularly at the higher levels of management. Look at the failure to manage the maintenance contracts properly, including the Red Sky debacle, when quality work was not being carried out on Housing Executive stock and, indeed, payment was often over the odds. I have to say that I am bemused by the motion, which has the wording:”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wish to apologise for my absence during topical questions earlier. I was called out by Assembly staff on an urgent Committee issue.”
“While some have criticised the Barnett formula, I am of the view that it has been relatively generous, providing an additional £2,000 per head of population and recognising the needs of Northern Ireland. Does the Minister agree that, with the call for further devolution of fiscal powers to regions of the UK, the Barnett formula could come increasingly under review? Will she advise us of her approach to that and her thoughts on how best to protect the needs of Northern Ireland?”
“However, it is unfortunate that the same understanding is not being afforded to other legislation before the Assembly, particularly welfare reform proposals, where Sinn Féin has made uncosted proposals. It would be fiscally irresponsible to make uncosted proposals regarding pensions. I am pleased that that has not happened. Equally, it is fiscally irresponsible to make uncosted proposals about welfare reform. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased that, at least in this area of Government responsibility, everyone within the Assembly appears to recognise their financial responsibilities to the entire Northern Ireland community and that there are administrative benefits in retaining parity. I only wish that they would recognise it in other areas.”
“If we were to deviate, I believe that we could put that at risk and that, again, would have significant financial implications in the administrative costs of managing each of these legislative requirements in order to protect our citizens. Not only that, there would be further risk to our citizens. How, for instance, could we gather up a pension protection fund? Again, economy of scale is required in order to spread that burden or load. It would be much better if we were to retain parity in this vital area. <BR />Making any changes to the legislation would have very significant financial implications, both in administration and in the outworkings of the scheme. Where have we heard that before? I am pleased that, on this occasion, Sinn Féin and the SDLP have recognised the benefits of parity and have indicated their support for the Bill.”
“We must take cognisance of that. If we were to alter parity in this area, we may stop the current products on the market from being afforded here, because pension companies would have to follow any legislative changes that we make. Their existing pensions may not fit into that. We would risk the offering that is available to Northern Ireland citizens were we to make any changes to parity on this issue. <BR /> <BR />As others have said, there is a UK-wide Pensions Regulator, Pensions Ombudsman and Pension Protection Fund. Again, I asked what would happen if we were to deviate from parity. All of these schemes operate on a UK-wide basis.”
“I was concerned that, if we were to change the regulations, we might be limiting the market and the ability for customers or constituents to chose how they invest in their pensions for the future. <BR /> <BR />The official's answer was very illuminating. He agreed that it would be a very big risk:”
“To run a pension scheme, you need a critical mass, because, first, there is the administrative burden of running the scheme; and secondly, in order to share the risk of any scheme, you want to gather up a sizeable investment and be able to spread that risk in order to minimise risks to the individuals who have invested in it and also to, hopefully, maximise any benefits that can be accrued. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland consumers also need competition. It is vital that there is a variety of products on the market. At one stage during some of the advanced discussions with the Minister and officials on the Bill at the Committee, I asked how many pensions that might be on offer elsewhere could not be afforded here because there would be different rules.”
“There is an effective UK-wide regulatory pensions regime. Anyone who examines the Bill will see that it is technical and specialist in nature. We alter anything in it at our peril. We really could not fully understand the outworkings of any such changes. <BR /> <BR />Many private pension schemes are currently available, offered and taken up in Northern Ireland. That is principally because they operate on a UK-wide basis, and there are economies of scale that come from that.”
“Like everyone else, I am getting older, so I will declare an interest if that is required at this stage. I got a letter a short time ago, and I suddenly realised that I was getting older and a certain date was approaching, but I hope that I will have an active working life in the meantime. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I support the Pension Schemes Bill. As others said, whilst, in theory, pensions are a devolved matter, in practice, the pensions industry operates on a UK-wide basis. We would be only kidding ourselves if we thought that we could alter legislation in this area because doing so could significantly affect our citizens adversely. As public representatives, we ought to be doing what is best for the entire community and understanding all the implications of any change. Why do I say that?”
“On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I speak in support of accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />As others said, whilst pensions are, in theory, a devolved matter, they are, in practice, operated by a UK-wide pension industry. It is vital that we retain legislative parity. I understand that there may be one, if there are any, local institution that offers pensions, so we deviate at our peril. I will say more about that later. <BR /> <BR />The scheme that introduces the UK-wide pension changes is due to be fully in effect by April 2016. The pensions industry is not one that you can change very quickly; it takes time. Time is required to develop the products and to train those who are to sell them so that selling is done ethically and there are no repercussions. Therefore, we support accelerated passage.”
“Will the Member give way? I am seeking clarification. I do not know whether the Member knows what the Minister is about to say. Is he saying that he wants the Minister not to move clause 20? I am uncertain what you are saying.”
“In fatal accidents involving young people, the fact is that many of them involve joyriders, who will ignore all the legislation. We can tighten things up and have very restrictive practices for more responsible drivers, but it may not have the impact that is being indicated here. The issue needs to be thrashed out, with much more transparency.”
“The Member is using statistics, and I am just seeking clarification about his statistics. He said that they were caused by the 10% of people who would be classified as being young. Will all of them be prevented from driving after 10.00 pm by what is being proposed? Will all of them be banned from driving during the day by what is being proposed? I am just seeking clarification. Is he using statistics at the appropriate time?”
“Does the Member acknowledge that, if there is a total ban on young people driving, we may well end up with more young people walking on rural roads of an evening, which itself is a risk? There are risks living in a rural community whether one is walking or driving, and everything must be considered in the round. You may reduce accidents on one side but contribute to accidents on the other side.”