Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“Is the Member aware that already there has been flooding in the entrance lane? Mud was flowing onto the road and, ultimately, down the stream that, potentially, could have gone into the water supply. So, already, they have not been able to do things properly.”
“So, because of that I want to avoid risks, and we ought to be very careful in the future and not do this ever again.”
“There was a site in the Glenoe area, in my constituency. It had an aquifer, and neighbouring well water was diverted. There was lots of mud, and, I am told, the Glynn river ran red. Who knows what could have happened if something similar had happened at Woodburn? You should not just assume that officials get it right all the time. Another thing, when I read on about this and gained knowledge, is the number of chemicals involved, and, again, this is in a water catchment area. There was 100 kg of biocide. I think that it was 24 tons of barium sulphate, and there were 2,500 gallons of Halad-300L NS. Biocide T and Halad-300L NS are defined as hazardous biocides under the Groundwater Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2009. <BR /> <BR />Why bring such issues into a water catchment area? Why bring risks upon yourself?”
“Sometimes, you need a bit of common sense. Why take on additional risks? Why did you come here if you accept what the officials say every time? Sometimes, you have to challenge them. Why take on additional risks?”
“The issue that strikes me, which people are mixed up about, is that this is adjacent to Woodburn north but is actually in the catchment area of Woodburn south. There is confusion. There is a sluice that can direct water to and from the area, and I understand that mitigation can be built in there. I suggest that they should build in whatever mitigation they can come up with. We have been assured that there is a bund and that nothing can escape. What if we get exceptional rainfall and the bund fills? Northern Ireland has been fortunate to be dry recently.”
“I felt that it was important, so, in 2014, I engaged with the Department and Northern Ireland Water to seek at least an assurance that there would be no fracking and that it would ensure the highest level of mitigation if it leased the site. That was agreed. I am glad that no fracking has been written into the lease so that, if the company finds suitable fracking below, it will not come back. At least, I hope that it will not, and that is my understanding. It is already built into the lease, so it cannot decide to say, "We have developed this in good faith. You cannot stop us now unless you pay us x amount of money". I hope that we have, at least, prevented that issue arising. <BR /> <BR />Many have referred to the catchment area. I have been to the area several times and met some of the neighbours.”
“I have to say that I found myself in a similar situation when involved in discussions with some departmental officials. They just assumed that it was a zero-waste site and that everybody had been assured by somebody else — but what if something goes wrong? Why take on the additional risks? <BR /> <BR />The next thing highlighted to me was concern in the community that there could be fracking. This was moving to a different plane. I could not believe that anywhere in Northern Ireland could be less appropriate for fracking than a water catchment area. You have the pumping of chemicals underground. You have the risk of heavy metals or other substances coming back to the surface. It was just ridiculous that that could be possible.”
“I have a wood-burning stove, but I have an oil-fired central heating system at home as well. I use oil, so I am not anti-oil and do not come at this from an anti-oil point of view. We have to try to conserve our limited energy supplies, but why on earth would you take on additional risk by locating such a site in a water catchment area? <BR /> <BR />I note that the record of the Northern Ireland Water board meeting of 24 July 2013 indicates that the board was assured that the contamination risk had been dealt with in the preconditions for Northern Ireland Water's land being accessed for the project. Therefore, you write that into the conditions and nothing will ever go wrong. What surprised me about that minute was that there was no challenge from any of the Northern Ireland Water board members to ask, "What if something goes wrong?".”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I, too, congratulate you on your appointment. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion. I have to say that I it was with incredulity that I learned of the proposal to drill a borehole at Woodburn inside the water catchment area. I could not believe that it would be a location where Northern Ireland Water, the company whose job it is to guarantee water quality for the people of Northern Ireland, would take on additional risks. As I said earlier, there are risks involved in drilling. Some are using the language that this is a "zero-waste site" and that nothing will ever escape, but there are "Events, dear boy, events". Sometimes, events can overtake the best of plans. Again, I ask the question: why take on additional risks? <BR /> <BR />I want to highlight the fact that I drive a car.”
“The Member is certain that there are no risks, but does he appreciate that things sometimes go wrong and that, when things go wrong, there are risks? The question is this: why take on board additional risk in a water catchment area?”
“That is an area I invite the Minister to take a look at, given her interest in the community and voluntary sector in particular.”
“Early intervention services for children and young people and adults is important so that the addiction does not occur and young people are better informed of the dangers of alcohol and other drug misuse. I commend Nichola Mallon for highlighting the adverse effect, particularly in the area of mental health and well-being. Frequently, drug misuse and mental health and well-being issues are related, and it is important that they are highlighted. Of course, for the real hard-nosed criminals who profit from this, it is vital to have a robust criminal justice system. <BR /> <BR />I would like also to highlight the importance of preventative work and praise the work of Preventing Addiction Larne (PAL) in my East Antrim constituency. They are a group of volunteers who have to fundraise and get little help from any statutory services.”
“In terms of the harms caused, almost 60% of people were concerned that antisocial behaviour resulted. Damage to individuals' health was cited, as was crime in the local area, which was cited by some 13%. There are also the issues of fear and violence in the local area and some other issues. This, clearly, is an area of concern. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the amendment, I believe that it better highlights the need to invest in preventative work as well as recognising the role of statutory services, the Public Health Agency and the community and voluntary sector. It talks of the need to increase awareness to create greater resilience and avoidance of addiction in the first place. That is key from my experience and is a vital area.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department of Justice findings on the view of alcohol and drug-related issues emanating from the September 2015 Northern Ireland omnibus survey highlights an increasing level of concern about drugs-related issues in Northern Ireland. Of those surveyed on the level of drugs-related issues, some 13% felt that things were getting worse and 5·2% felt that they were getting better. There seems to be a particular problem in the Belfast Health Trust area, where 23·2% felt that things were getting worse. In my area, the Northern Health Trust, some 8·2% perceived a worsening in trends. <BR /> <BR />The omnibus survey highlighted some areas of concern.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are some interesting figures in 'Drug Prevalence in Northern Ireland Key Facts 2014-15', which surveyed people on the effects of taking drugs and alcohol in the those 12 months and found that some 35% who took alcohol regretted something that they said or did — 7% of those taking drugs. Then you go into a whole range of issues and find that there are equal dangers in the misuse of alcohol and in using other drugs, including harm to individuals' health, harm to their friendships and social life, harm to home life or marriage and whether they got into a fight or were involved in an accident. We need to be clear that difficulties can arise more widely than just with illegal drugs.”
“The motion has been given the very short title of "Illegal Drugs", but in the detail of the motion and the amendment, the words "legal" and "illegal" are not mentioned. In fact, many Members who have spoken referred to the difficulty with legally available drugs and the misuse of alcohol and other drugs. To my mind, the issue covers legal and illegal drugs. There is the big issue of the misuse of legally prescribed medicines and, as I said, the misuse of alcohol, which, because of its availability and prevalence, is one of the biggest issues when addictions occur.”
“First, I declare an interest as a committee member of the Carrickfergus Community Drugs and Alcohol Advisory Group, which was previously involved in counselling and drugs awareness and resilience training but is no longer operating due to funding issues. <BR /> <BR />I congratulate the Minister on her appointment and wish her well in her post, but I have noticed that those who have been involved in appointing her are already pressing her on the budget that they set her. I wonder whether that is a sign of what is to come. I hope not. <BR /> <BR />I, too, support the motion and the amendment, which I believe strengthens the motion. I thank the Assembly research services for the useful background brief on the issue.”
“I thought that there was supposed to be collective government decision-making. Will you advise me whether you, in approving the Budget, have provided sufficient funds so that the Minister of Justice can continue to fund that very worthwhile work, or, having appointed her, are you now starting to criticise her because she does not have enough funds to carry out her work? Is there collective responsibility or not?”
“I also offer my best wishes to the Speaker and to the Deputy Speaker, John Dallat, who are now standing down as Assembly Members. I wish you both well in your retirement.”
“This legislation fills that void, because there was not legislation specifically covering outdoor stadia. In 2004, when the new Odyssey Arena was built — it is now the SSE Arena — specific legislation was brought in to deal with indoor arenas. This private Member's Bill does something similar for the emerging outdoor stadia. We have to thank Judith Cochrane for driving that forward and for getting this Bill, after considerable effort, to Final Stage. We have listened to evidence at Committee from a range of sources and have come up with a proportionate and balanced Bill. I wish to indicate my continued support, and the support of the Ulster Unionist Party, for it. <BR /> <BR />I wish Judith well in her future career.”
“We are now in a different environment from that of 20 years ago, when the original rules were written in the 1996 Order. Other work requires to be done, and that will fall to the next Assembly. <BR /> <BR />We have a burgeoning tourism and hospitality industry, and at least this private Member's Bill will facilitate those who come to Northern Ireland to enjoy our major sports venues: what we now have at Ravenhill or Kingspan Stadium, the new Windsor Park that is emerging, and, potentially, the new Casement Park, when planning issues are eventually addressed and development occurs. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that the customer, the spectator of sport today, has demands different from those of spectators in the past. People expect a comfortable environment, hospitality and a customer experience: food, perhaps a glass of wine or a pint of beer.”
“— so I do not think that this legislation will apply to it. <BR /> <BR />Like others, I pay tribute to Judith Cochrane for the work that she has carried out in taking forward a private Member's Bill. I am aware of the considerable work involved, so how she managed to condense it into such a short period amazes me, so well done for that. <BR /> <BR />There are clearly gaps in our licensing laws in Northern Ireland. In 2012, there was a consultation by the Department for Social Development, and, in 2014, there was an announcement that the law would be changed, but that did not happen. What we see here is a private Member spotting that there is a need for change and driving it herself, so well done for that. Of course, other aspects remain to be changed.”
“I declare an interest as a non-playing member of Larne Rugby Football Club, although I am not sure that there are any plans to build a regional stadium there —”
“There is also provision to apply notices that specify works so that, when essential improvements are needed, there is a power to specify that, and, hopefully, again it will be improved quickly. <BR /> <BR />All in all, I think the legislation is timely. It is needed, and it is badly needed. There has been constructive engagement between the Committee, stakeholders who presented evidence to us and the Department to produce legislation that will bring about betterment in our community. I continue to support the Bill.”
“I think that, with the information given to the Committee, we have reached a reasonable balance between trying to protect the rights of the tenant as well as the rights of the landlord who looks after such buildings. <BR /> <BR />I think it is important to look at some of the powers that are coming in with this. Fixed penalty notices were mentioned. Again, that is a mechanism that I think is badly needed to try to bring about improvements because, with very little cost to bureaucracy or without any court time, it is possible for remedies to occur, failures to be highlighted and hopefully, at that point, for them to be quickly remedied without recourse to any other more expensive processes. When you look at some of the guidance in it, you see that there is the potential for hearings.”
“You may well be right. I have come across difficulties with regard to apartment buildings and the management of them. It may have assisted. I am pleased that this legislation is at its Final Stage. It should help tenants in the future. <BR /> <BR />I think that the legislation has ended up with a degree of balance. It is important that details of who the landlord or the managing agent is are available to tenants, but concerns were expressed in the evidence that was given to us about how that information could be used and abused. Clearly, appropriate information would be given to tenants so that they would know who their landlord or managing agent was.”
“We all thought that some were responsible for the management of a property when, in fact, they had merely let it out for the first month and had not been given any subsequent role by the landlord. The legislation clarifies that the responsibility falls, still, with the landlord or, alternatively, with a managing agent, if someone is named as such. So, it becomes clearer who is responsible for bringing about improvements.”
“So, it is important that landlords have a role in that and that the design of the property is appropriate from the outset. So, I think that the legislation is needed, with licensing and the fit and proper person requirement for those who are providing housing for tenants. I agree with that concept. <BR /> <BR />The regulation should also help to improve things and drive up standards. One of the benefits that I have gained through the evidence to the Committee is the clarity that was given by some of the estate agents on the clear difference between a letting agent and a managing agent. Tenants whom I have worked with in my constituency — those who have been seeking help with their landlord — and I had not picked up the distinction between the two.”
“I too indicate my continuing support for this Bill on governing houses in multiple occupation. It is clear that there is a higher risk associated with them. I declare an interest in that my son, who is a student, is in a house that, I believe, will be coming under this legislation at some point in the future. <BR /> <BR />We think of houses in multiple occupation as largely being student accommodation, but it can be wider than that. It is important that there is this regulation to safeguard those who are living in such houses and to ensure that basic requirements are met in fire safety, access and electrical safety, because, when there are many resident tenants in a building, there is a danger that no one will take the lead role in looking after issues of danger.”
“So, I can see why that change has come in in other parts of the United Kingdom and give general support to the four-week period being introduced here, with the adjustment for those who have to travel outside Northern Ireland because they are receiving medical treatment. <BR /> <BR />I give general support to the proposals.”
“Under the heading, "Temporary absence from Northern Ireland", the time limit will be the first four weeks of absence unless there are medical issues or treatment happening. If there are, the period will be extended to 13 weeks. The four-week limit is a sensible proposal. <BR /> <BR />There is concern that some have been using and abusing benefits in Northern Ireland. The ability to receive funds for four weeks when not present seems reasonably generous. I would not wish for someone to come to Northern Ireland, receive benefits, be here for a very limited period and continue to receive benefits.”
“<BR /> <BR />On housing benefit assistance, I see that there are proposals that the additional benefit must be paid through a landlord who is registered under the landlord registration scheme or, alternatively, the Housing Executive or a housing association. That is correct. It is important that people who are receiving support should be in bodies or working with landlords who are properly registered and meet the required standards, that public money is limited to those people and, ultimately, that, when landlords do not behave as required, they risk losing their registration and, as such, their tenant. <BR /> <BR />I also see, under the miscellaneous section of the regulations, that there are other changes to the requirement for individuals to be present in Northern Ireland.”
“Additional support will be given to assist people who may be affected by those changes, and I generally welcome that. <BR /> <BR />On the benefit cap changes and the mitigation in the regulations, I notice that, at part 2, regulation 4(6) states that the mitigations will end on 31 March 2020. It is important that there is recognition that significant change is afoot and that choices are made when we pay funds into this area. Mitigation is being given to protect, in particular, families with children. Nevertheless, this support is time-limited. We have to recognise that some have been receiving very large amounts of benefits. Information given to the Committee showed that one household was earning over £47,000 a year. This legislation will give a degree of protection, but everyone needs to recognise that there are no certainties.”
“As others said, this is part of the biggest change to the welfare system affecting everyone in the United Kingdom in 70 years. Major changes will be undertaken in Northern Ireland within a matter of months. I, too, pay tribute to Professor Eileen Evason and her working group for their welfare reform mitigation suggestions. One of the outcomes of their work are the new regulations to try to protect against the worst aspect of the changes and to allow people additional time to adapt to the new financial situations that will befall them. However, we all have to recognise that there is a limited amount of funds. The mechanism that has been chosen that will best help most people will give assistance for up to one year. I turn to the ESA contribution-based time limit that is in these regulations.”
“I thank the Minister for that information. I am aware that, in Larne, young people who congregated and bought such items were involved in shoplifting etc to fund the exercise and often came into Larne from other locations using public transport. My question to the Minister is a bit wider. In Hydebank, young people who may have become addicted to such drugs ultimately entered the criminal justice system. Can the Minister tell me what testing goes on there to ensure that such drugs are not still entering Hydebank and adversely affecting the behaviour, mental health and well-being of many of our young people there?”
“The Minister has said that he has varied the licence, but that will have the effect of extending the operation and will enable drilling and the associated chemicals to be located in the water catchment area of the Woodburn dams. Given that a high-quality water supply is important not only to people but to local manufacturing companies, what discussions has the Minister had with other Departments to satisfy himself that there is no danger to the public water supply should something go amiss during the drilling process, in which a considerable number of chemicals will be injected into the ground?”
“The Minister said that up to £700 million would be needed to address a backlog of maintenance work etc, but he also said that borrowing was the only realistic source of the funding. Borrowing has to be paid for, and the Northern Ireland Executive have already borrowed considerably more per head of population than other regions. My question to the Minister is this: how is the borrowing to be paid for? How is it to be guaranteed, if it is applied for? What are his ideas around this?”
“The Minister mentioned the role that the health trusts and, indeed, the community and voluntary sector can play in assisting young people who may have become known to the criminal justice system. Will he acknowledge that worthwhile partnership working is already going on between the trusts, the community and voluntary sector and the Youth Justice Agency through such services as the Choices Family Support Service, which engages with families who are experiencing difficulty and reduces the risks of young people becoming known to the justice system in the first place? Will he continue to show support for that important work, so that young people can get back to school and the risk of offending is removed?”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that we look after our young people and afford them protection and do not simply rely on the goodwill of those who are organising events. We should make it very clear that courts would have powers to scrutinise licensing conditions for events that are primarily designed for young people.”
“<BR /> <BR />Particularly when we have what is known as a mixed-retailing option, potentially involving the sale of alcohol along with other goods that those under 18 would be queuing to purchase, it is much better that this provision is in the Bill and that it is very clear that the court would have those powers to remove any doubt about it. It is important that we put it up front and that there is clarity rather than having it hidden away in some other parts of the documentation. What we have done to date is good, and I commend the Member for her hard work in bringing the Bill to this stage. We should do this final bit of refinement and, hopefully, see the Bill brought into being during the course of this Assembly.”
“I am happy to support all the amendments. Amendment Nos 1 and 2 are technical, tidying amendments and, with regard to amendment No 4, there has been an indication that the interim arrangement is no longer needed, so I am happy to support it. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 3, in the name of Mr Jim Allister, should be in the Bill; I can see the benefit of it being there. It enables very clearly that the court shall consider whether additional conditions have to be attached to a licence when there are events that would appeal primarily to those under the age of 18. We have to remember that regional outdoor stadia will undoubtedly attract a number of youth events. I am thinking of Ravenhill hosting the Schools Cup final, but it could equally apply to soccer at the new Windsor Park stadium or, potentially, a youth GAA match at a new GAA stadium.”
“The parties that the First Minister and deputy First Minister represent have individually said that they are in favour of the removal of the exception, which permits unfair treatment. Will the First Minister commit and advise what proactive action the First Minister and deputy First Minister, acting together, have taken to remove the exception?”
“I, too, will be brief and say that I am comfortable with the amendments. They are minor amendments, mainly technical, to ensure that our legislation will work. I am happy to indicate the support of the Ulster Unionist Party for the continued passage of the Bill with the amendments.”
“I hope that some of it can be done tonight; if it is not, either the Department or someone — me, hopefully, if I am back, but that is in the gift of the electorate — will need to take the issue forward again. The issue has not gone away, and we, as legislators, have to think about how we can bring about improvement. I certainly think that the shape that we were building with the current legislation had the potential to do that. I ask Members, as we are finishing the group, to consider in particular amendment No 40, which would enable stop notices.”
“I am disappointed that Members are not seeing possibilities even in aspects of the Bill, and that others are voicing outright opposition. However, I think that there is a need to be addressed. We, as legislators, will not have done our job until that need to protect the environment is addressed, as well as the need to deter metal theft. <BR /> <BR />I, too, put on record my thanks to the Committee staff for their involvement when I was engaging with them and to the Bill Clerk in the Assembly for assisting me in developing my private Member's Bill. I also thank the departmental staff for what I thought was very encouraging engagement for about one week, and then it was all taken off the table. <BR /> <BR />The need to address the issue remains.”
“The House will be pleased to hear that I will not detain it much longer in commenting on the group. I acknowledge that I would have liked further time from when my detailed engagement with the Department occurred; I am sure that everybody would have benefited from that. I welcome the kind words from everyone, but, ultimately, we are here to bring about changes through legislation, and, until that is achieved, I will not have achieved my objective. <BR /> <BR />Alban Maginness rightly indicated the importance of highlighting the issues. Sometimes, a lot of this has gone under the radar. An important aspect of the debate is to continue to highlight the difficulties that have been going on in this area and the weaknesses in our legislation.”
“Again, I refer to the three tons of cable: anyone moving three tons of cable would need a waste management licence; it is not just somebody using a bit of an offcut and selling it. In that case, it is not possible to trace it, and it would be useful to trace the source. <BR /> <BR />I notice that clause 13 will again be opposed by Cathal Boylan and others. I ask why they are concerned about keeping records and why they should not be compulsory.”
“There have been examples — there was an attempt to sell a sizeable bronze statue that had been cut down elsewhere — so it is important to record the identification of the person who may have sold that. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 14, 16, 20 and 33 are consequential, so I do not wish to labour them. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 15 is a sensible amendment that would simply leave out paragraph (b) of clause 13 on page 8, line 11. That would mean that computerised records were sufficient and that paper records would not be required. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 19 would allow the information on receipt of metal to be adjusted and recorded as part of waste transfer notes. Again, that is another mechanism that could, by linking into the waste management system, give a degree of traceability, with minimal bureaucracy to the industry and the Department.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 12 picks up on a gap that I had not been aware of; indeed, the draftsman who was originally working with me had not spotted it. We had required that the registration numbers of vehicles registered in Northern Ireland and Great Britain be recorded. Of course, that excluded vehicles that might be registered elsewhere. The amendment, therefore, would include taking the registrations of vehicles that may have originally been registered in the Republic of Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Regarding the receipt of metal, if there is no requirement to show ID when metal is received by a dealer, it will ultimately become untraceable. By requiring ID, we are essentially improving on what is in the voluntary code by making it compulsory so that there is traceability of who supplied the metal.”
“As in the earlier groups, I wish to indicate that the amendments in my name came about as a result of discussions between me and departmental officials. The Department had issued the amendments to the Environment Committee but had not been able to lodge them formally. I thought that there was some merit in them, so I decided to table them in my name. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 9 and 10 simply propose a rewording of the provisions on the necessary, suitable identification, and I was happy to accept the proposals that had come forward. On clause 9, I do not understand why the provision on the ability to verify the ID of a person supplying lead, copper cable or, for that matter, other metals to a scrap metal dealer is not being accepted. Some are indicating their opposition to clause 9, but I continue to support it.”