Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“If we scrap equipment early and before the end of its normal lifespan, guess what? We are adding to emissions and costs. <BR /> <BR />For all those reasons, I cannot support the Bill. In summary, I want a climate change Act for Northern Ireland that is proportionate and fair. Having listened to the contributions so far, I remain concerned that the proposals that are being made are in danger of placing unrealistic requirements on people. I call for common sense. As part of the UK, we must do our bit to protect the planet. I support the 82% reduction in emissions by 2050. I have no doubt that that will be very challenging and painful. It is not a pain-free option, but I recognise that, in playing our part to effect climate change, we must do it. That is why I support playing our part in the United Kingdom.”
“The Climate Change Committee indicates that going too slowly could lead to unnecessary costs in the future — I agree — and to Northern Ireland missing out on the benefits of the climate investment that takes place elsewhere in the UK. However, going too fast and, in particular, aiming to decarbonise significantly faster than the rest of the UK also poses several risks. Setting emissions reduction targets that are too ambitious to be delivered can undermine their credibility. Going beyond the natural rate of stock turnover and making equipment redundant earlier in its lifetime might lead to the premature scrappage of assets such as vehicles and boilers. That may be costly, it risks undermining popular support for transition and would cause increased embedded emissions.”
“There is a risk that food being sourced from elsewhere in the world could add pain to the local agriculture sector. Will that result in food that has a greater carbon footprint, is perhaps of an even lower quality and has even been produced with lower animal welfare standards compared with our local products? That is the complexity of what we are doing. All those factors must be considered. It is not enough to pick a date and say that we will sort it out by then. This is extremely complex. Some people think that I think too much about things, but I try to get an understanding of where we are and come to a reasonable conclusion.”
“I ask the Member to be patient. <BR /> <BR />There is a real risk of offshoring food production. Will that include other industries? I referred to electricity: if electricity costs go exceedingly high, there is a risk there. <BR /> <BR />Further, if we move in advance of HMG — this is another important aspect, and I have thought about it — there may not be appropriate carbon tax in place to protect Northern Ireland producers and businesses from competitors overseas. That is a real thing. We can add costs to our local producers and businesses, but will there be protection? I suspect that, at some point, there may be carbon taxes coming in to give a degree of protection and stop unfair competition from the rest of the world, but, if we move ahead of the rest of the United Kingdom, we may not have such protection.”
“We can stop producing food here; we can stop encouraging farmers and our agri-food industry; we can lower our carbon footprint; and, at that point, consumers in the UK will take food from elsewhere —.”
“That is what the UK experts in this field have stated. I am aghast that I have not heard this referred to in the debate so far. It is critical stuff. Another comment is made that reflects what was said earlier by the Minister. There is a risk that:”
“I thank the Member for her contribution. <BR /> <BR />There is another interesting quote in the letter from the Climate Change Committee. The letter must be studied by everyone. It is critical to the future agri-food industry in Northern Ireland and the wider economy. It cannot be taken lightly. I stumbled upon it. How many of you have read it? I ask that everyone ensures that they read it, or what they are wishing to achieve may not be achieved. The letter also says:”
“I wish to answer the Minister first. I may subsequently give way to the Member. For clarity, the Minister was not referring to me: I am not on the Agriculture Committee. I believe that he was referring to the proposer of the Bill. I will happily give way.”
“The UK is committed to reaching net zero by 2050. If we decide to move ahead of that, as we are at liberty to do, and pick up the cost and the pain, what may happen? The UK may simply reduce the amount of carbon capture that they are planning for other parts of the United Kingdom. We can inflict as much pain as we wish on our agriculture sector and our other industry, affecting jobs, employment and our economy.”
“I suspect that promises of mitigation will be difficult to deliver. <BR /> <BR />Why do we not legislate for the targets agreed by the UK Climate Change Committee to enable the UK to meet, at least, the Paris Accord 2050 obligations of net zero greenhouse gas emissions? If individual plans demonstrate that we can better them, we can increase our targets as Scotland and Wales have done. Why have we not learned from them? Is that not a route that we should go down? <BR /> <BR />One of the most concerning statements in the letter is this:”
“In that can be seen the complexity of the range of issues that we face. It is not a matter of picking a figure that we have to reach; it is complicated. <BR /> <BR />Carbon capture is planned to play a role in enabling the UK to reach its Paris climate agreement obligations to protect the planet, but our regional figure will not benefit from capture elsewhere. A different allowance was set for Northern Ireland. That has been a contributory factor in the recommendation of the 82% by 2050 target. <BR /> <BR />The 2045 zero greenhouse gas target is causing huge concern in the rural community. Friends and neighbours have contacted me because they are concerned not only for their current enterprises but for future generations. What money will there be to mitigate all this? Our budgets are already stretched.”
“It goes on to comment on our potential to store CO2. As I indicated, part of the plan for parts of the rest of the UK is to use carbon capture to get to the zero figure. The Climate Change Committee says:”
“I think, in particular, of the Minister's recent announcement of 50 hectares of new forest in north Antrim. There was huge cost involved in establishing that. There is cost involved in moving forward. Farmers generally do not have the money up front to convert from agricultural land to forestry. It is hugely expensive, and there is a long wait for that crop to be harvested. Most farmers could not wait for that. There is a cost involved in the change, and we are starting at a different point. <BR /> <BR />The UK Climate Change Committee has assessed our infrastructure in setting local targets. It highlights the fact that the natural gas network in Northern Ireland is less developed. It talks about our electricity network, existing housing stock, clusters of heavy industry and airport infrastructure.”
“The Member has introduced an interesting point. I hope that the Minister will respond to it. <BR /> <BR />The final comment from the UK Climate Change Committee in this section is that the starting point of our land use:”
“Northern Ireland is starting at a different level and on a different plane and:”
“How does the Bill recognise that comment by the UK's Climate Change Committee? How does it take on board that committee's views? I have not heard or seen that. <BR /> <BR />The committee also highlights that there is a difference in land use and, in particular, that:”
“Others have indicated that the Bill impacts greatly on agriculture and the agri-food sector. Food production in Northern Ireland has a greater greenhouse gas footprint than in the rest of the UK. Northern Ireland agriculture is responsible for 27% of our greenhouse gas emissions; in the rest of the UK, the figure is only 10%. The UK Climate Change Committee recognised that Northern Ireland's food production for the rest of the UK generates greenhouse gas emissions here. Northern Ireland food production helps to feed the rest of the UK, and the Climate Change Committee has recognised that in assessing a fair limit and target for each area. That is a major factor in why it has not sought 100% greenhouse gas reduction by 2050, never mind by 2045. The Climate Change Committee stated:”
“No allowance had been made in our local targets for the fact that that may, in turn, affect the price of electricity for individuals and businesses because additional standby generations may be required and carbon mitigation may need to be purchased to compensate for any such generation.”
“<BR /> <BR />Going forward, Kilroot is destined to close, so we will be entirely reliant on gas, which admittedly has lower CO2 outputs than Kilroot's coal. Nevertheless, there will be a more significant proportion of CO2 outputs in Northern Ireland. In addition, in other parts of the United Kingdom, there are an extensive number of offshore wind turbines — I think of the North Sea and Morecambe Bay — and to a degree, when wind does not blow in one area, it may blow in another. We do not have that either, which again may lead to additional energy being produced from gas. <BR /> <BR />Mention was made earlier of hydrogen production. How will the electricity be generated to generate the hydrogen? That is a significant problem that has not been addressed here. GB has greater options for assisting with generation when there is no wind.”
“I understand that there is, at present, 8 GW of generating capacity in Scotland, Wales and England. There is none in Northern Ireland, however. The other regions of the UK are able to generate electricity without contributing to CO2 emissions. Somehow, we have to generate electricity without that. I acknowledge that we have the interconnector with Scotland, and, undoubtedly, some nuclear energy will flow along it. In addition, the UK has significant hydroelectric power installed, with a capacity of 4·7 GW. That includes 2·8 GW of pump storage. Again, where is there significant hydroelectricity in Northern Ireland? The reason that those two forms of electricity generation are particularly important is that they can continue to flow when there is no wind. That issue must be catered for.”
“Again, I point out to everyone that there will be pain and cost as a result of legislation. We need to legislate to protect the environment but in a fair and proportionate manner so that our region contributes to the UK's meeting its climate change targets by 2050. <BR /> <BR />The UK Government are well advanced in their targets to meet the Paris agreement climate change commitments. Some regions are to be net sinks, while others are to be net sources, but the UK as a whole will meet the climate change target set in the Paris Accord. We have to play our part. <BR /> <BR />This Bill will affect much more than just the agriculture industry. Each region of the UK is different, and all aspects must be taken into consideration. Take electricity generation. In the UK, there are numerous nuclear power stations.”
“<BR /> <BR />I urge all Members to read carefully and study the UK Climate Change Committee's letter to DAERA, dated 1 April 2021. It is a serious letter with an unfortunate date, but it was not an April Fool. It is a key letter, of which everyone should be aware, that was in reply to a DAERA official's request in February. In it, the Climate Change Committee states:”
“I believe that that was a Westminster manifesto. It certainly risks delivering an overly painful shock to our economy and to jobs rather than enabling efficient changes and mitigating the effects of any change. <BR /> <BR />Clause 2 would force the Executive to bring a plan for net zero. Why does it not simply state that we will follow UK Climate Change Committee recommendations to ensure that Northern Ireland contributes its fair share of greenhouse gas reductions? It indicates a legislative commitment to reach net zero carbon by 2045. We are at least five years behind Wales in legislating, and the Bill proposes that we will miraculously leapfrog other regions in a compressed time frame. I have to ask this: how is that to be achieved without pain?”
“I accept the Speaker's comments. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Member for South Belfast for her private Member's Bill to the degree that it has forced this issue onto the table once more and has provided the increased visibility that the Executive have not delivered as they should have. This Bill sets out ambitious targets over a compressed time frame that are way beyond the UK Climate Change Committee targets.”
“I ask that to the First Minister and deputy First Minister and, indeed, the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, who made commitments in NDNA that the Executive would bring forward a climate change Act to give environmental targets a strong legal underpinning. Minister, why has there been such a delay? There has been talk of legislation. When will it be presented to the Executive, and when will the official Bill be published?”
“<BR /> <BR />I say that to acknowledge the fact that we have a climate emergency and to indicate my support for the Northern Ireland Assembly legislating to play our part within the United Kingdom, just as the devolved Governments in Scotland and Wales have done. They have already legislated to provide protection. Scotland has had a Climate Change Act since 2009 and recently updated its targets to include a 75% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 and 90% by 2040. Scotland is well ahead of us. In 2016, Wales legislated to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and, in February this year, after almost five years of planning and actions, Wales updated its targets, worked out how to do it and is now aiming to achieve net zero by 2050. <BR /> <BR />I have to ask: why has Northern Ireland not legislated yet?”
“First, I declare that I own 25 acres of agricultural land that I let out, and I also provide voluntary assistance to my parents on their farm. <BR /> <BR />From the outset, I indicate my support for Northern Ireland playing its part in enabling the United Kingdom to reach net zero carbon and achieve zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. I recognise that that will be painful for many sectors, and there will be challenges in getting there. The EU also aims to be climate-neutral by 2050 and appears to be moving towards legislation. Most farmers to whom I talk recognise that our climate is changing, and many recognise that action is required. Recently, I picked up a comment from one farmer, who basically said that the tap is either fully on or fully off. That reflects what we have been experiencing, and that causes difficulty for us all.”
“Does the Member accept that the decision that Kilroot coal-fired generation is to cease in 2024 will make a major contribution to the reduction of carbon emissions?”
“Does the Member agree that there is nothing stopping us building a more extensive walking and cycling infrastructure and that it should happen now, regardless of any Bill for climate change?”
“In your statement, Minister, you indicated that there were significant levels of COVID funding and that the Chancellor's Budget provided an additional £4·2 million resource DEL from non-COVID measures. Subsequently, you indicated that you intended to allocate it to the Bright Start school-age grant scheme and to support for the public service route between the City of Derry Airport and London. How much funding will go to each of those schemes? How many young people will benefit, and how many passengers will benefit? What is the degree of subsidy?”
“The Minister's answer to date has been focused on road, rail and bus. Will the Minister acknowledge that to have a successful integrated transport system, we also need to have effective park-and-ride schemes and a network of walking and cycling routes?”
“A minimum price of alcohol can contribute to a reduction in the consumption of alcohol and in levels of associated addiction. Can the Minister provide us with an update on minimum pricing? If we reduce the consumption of alcohol, the pressures on our addiction support will be reduced.”
“Does the Member agree that there are legitimate concerns about the route, particularly if there is to be compulsory vesting of homes, land and property, when there is overprovision and no justification for sections of the route, particularly the Aughnacloy to Ballygawley section, and that there are basic human rights issues that need to be respected? There needs to be careful examination of the commissioner's comments, and they must all be adequately addressed if we are to proceed.”
“Minister, will you review the phasing of the scheme and enable badly needed sections of road improvements to get under way whilst you continue to strive to gain planning permission for the rest of the scheme? The word "if" was in the commissioner's report, and I fear that if you continue to push for the entire route, you may never get full planning permission for it. I urge that phasing progresses and that urgently needed improvements are put in place.”
“There are many environmental issues still to be addressed in detail. There is the issue of the absence of the full funding from the Northern Ireland Executive. There is also the issue of building on the flood plain, the fact that flooding has recently occurred there and the need for modelling in terms of how this scheme will further contribute to flooding. Then there is the large-scale compulsory purchasing of land to consider — I am not saying this; the commissioner says it in the report — as well as the human rights issues that are involved in vesting excessive areas of land. <BR /> <BR />The commissioner then highlights that:”
“What do you think a court would do with that being the view of the planners? We need to reboot on this issue and get improvements under way where they can be achieved. <BR /> <BR />Regarding the funding of the scheme, initially the Republic of Ireland offered some £400 million, and it was going to cost the Northern Ireland Executive £600 million. The Republic's Government have reduced that now to £75 million: that means that there is a cost of £1·1 billion, almost doubling the cost to this Executive. Worse than that, all that money is not in place. Some are advocating that land should be vested when there is no money to buy it all and no money to build it all. Blighting would occur: that would be a human rights issue, and that is highlighted in the report. <BR /> <BR />I urge people to look at the recommendations.”
“<BR /> <BR />Minister, can we not at least get road improvements under way in uncontroversial sections of the A5, such as the town bypasses? In the report, the commissioner states that some sections indicate six times better economic value than others and that some are uncontroversial. In fact, the commissioner recommends that the Minister considers phasing. It is not guaranteed that the scheme will ever proceed in the current format, but:”
“There is also traffic congestion in the urban centres of Omagh and Strabane, and there is an urgent need for new bypasses to reduce traffic delays and congestion in those town centres. <BR /> <BR />However, gaining planning permission for the dualling of the entire A5 route has been problematic, to say the least. I urge everyone, if they have not done so already, to read the entire report. I have read it. I urge you, in particular, to read the two and a half pages of the summary, to which I have not heard reference to date. Mr Buchanan has indicated that the scheme has been delayed for 14 years; actually, there have been plans to upgrade the A5 dating from even before that, since 2005. That is 16 years ago.”
“I too thank Mr McAleer for raising this issue. I think it is important to discuss the issues and to try to get a solution and bring about improvement. <BR /> <BR />Everyone recognises the need for significant improvements to the A5. They are badly needed. The A5 provides an essential principal road linking Omagh and Strabane, onwards to Donegal and down to the M2 and, indeed, the road to Dublin from the north-west region. It is a significant route. The route is virtually entirely single carriageway, and there are limited overtaking opportunities. Delays occur. As others have said, there are serious accidents, serious injuries and even death. Improvement is badly needed.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Regrettably, he has had to announce further reviews of former patients of Dr Watt. <BR /> <BR />The recall runs the obvious risk of raising the anxieties and concerns felt by patients and their families. Will the Minister provide assurance that the necessary level of effective and sensitive support will be provided to those who might need it in this situation?”
“Prince Philip will be remembered for the selfless role that he played in supporting Her Majesty The Queen and for how he benefited young people in particular in our community.”
“What struck me was their determination, the effort that they had made to be successful and their sense of achievement at having made a trek that they probably thought they could not do. In this day and age, few young people face such challenges, but it is a great achievement when they train and are successful. The Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme equips our young people with new skills and increased confidence and resilience and enables them to make the most of their life. The young people who have benefited from the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme will be his greatest legacy. <BR /> <BR />The Queen has rightly insisted that the COVID regulations should be followed. I urge anyone who wants to pay tribute by sending a message of sympathy to take some time out to visit the royal website and sign the online book of condolence.”
“His was a life well lived. <BR /> <BR />As a serving Boys' Brigade officer, I can vouch for the value of the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme. As a parent, I saw how it benefited my three children. The Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme has positively helped to shape the lives of tens of thousands of young people locally and throughout the Commonwealth. Young people are required to volunteer in their communities to help others — it is a great thing to instil that sense of caring at a young age — to learn a new skill and to undertake an expedition. I remember meeting an exhausted group of Raloo BB and GB members who were wet, tired and weary. They had walked for three days, carrying their tents and food on a cross-country trek from Ballycastle to Broughshane.”
“On behalf of my constituency of East Antrim, I offer heartfelt condolences and sympathy to Queen Elizabeth II and the royal family following the passing of His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. The royal family is in our thoughts and prayers. <BR /> <BR />The United Kingdom, the Commonwealth and, indeed, the world mourn the passing of the longest-serving royal consort. He was the supporting husband to Her Majesty for a remarkable 73 years and was her strength and stay. His life was one of public service, first as a gallant royal naval officer actively serving during World War II and then in his role of selflessly supporting Her Majesty The Queen. He also became patron to many charities, including the World Wildlife Fund, which he served for over 50 years, including time as the active president.”
“Lessons must be learned from what happened at Bobby Storey's funeral so that others do not feel incensed.”
“There are concerns about the criminal justice system, but, thankfully, there is a review of the PPS's decision and an independent review of policing. Hopefully, lessons will be learned. Politicians also need to learn the lesson that they should do what they say and lead by example.”
“Young people — teenagers — were largely at the front line. Some obviously had nothing to lose, which is an issue that we must address. We must ensure that there is a place for everyone in our community and that no one is left behind. Again, there was a wheelie bin set on fire on the North Road in Carrickfergus and police were also attacked. Violence must stop. Thankfully, at the Antiville roundabout in Larne, there were largely peaceful protests, but politics must be seen to work, and that is a challenge to us all. <BR /> <BR />We have genuine concerns about the Northern Ireland protocol. The community has: this is not just politicians. Anybody who orders items on the internet will find that out.”
“I support the motion and sense the shock and concern at the level of violence that we have seen once more on our streets. Every petrol bomb and piece of masonry that was thrown could have resulted in serious injury to, or death of, a member of the public or a member of our police service. In particular, we have to thank the PSNI for its actions in Lanark Way and keeping the gate there closed. If the two groups of rioters had been able to get into direct conflict with each other, there may well have been a loss of life. We must thank the police for what they did in that particular instance. <BR /> <BR />Turning to my East Antrim constituency, dreadful rioting occurred in Cloughfern, and there were reports that the south-east Antrim UDA invited businesses to close because there was going to be a riot.”
“I agree with the Minister that loan sharks are frequently linked to organised crime groups that lend money and get it back by coercion. They inflict great fear on individuals and those in desperate need of money. <BR /> <BR />Is Northern Ireland the only part of the UK without a dedicated team to target illegal moneylenders? Has she any plans to ensure that there is a dedicated policy and such a resource to tackle this issue, which particularly affects vulnerable people?”
“Drug dealing, loan-sharking and brutal violence are hallmarks of organised crime groups. Let us not beat around the bush. It is clear that abusive members of gangs are taking advantage of their local community. I ask the Minister when those responsible for some of the murders will be brought to account. How will she support vulnerable members of the community who have to live there? How can they be protected so that they can be assured that they can live safely with their friends and families?”