Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
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“Having taken an interest in that subject area, the question that comes to my mind is why there is no clear evidence. There is a question as to when the accidents are occurring hour by hour and over a number of years. Will the Minister publish that information so that there is a clear understanding and so that lives can be protected in a manner that minimises the interference on the public? As yet, I am not certain that there is a reasonable balance to what he proposes.”
“I attended a Politics Plus 'Deconstructing Legislation' course with Daniel Greenberg, who is a very eminent draftsman. He said:”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Modern, user-friendly layouts in recycling centres encourage citizens to recycle a wide range of material. Will the Minister acknowledge that, in Carrickfergus in particular, where there is lower recycling, there is an urgent need to upgrade the local recycling facility? What help, support and grants are available to encourage local government to upgrade its facilities to modern, user-friendly facilities that will encourage people to recycle?”
“The Minister mentioned the Causeway coastal route, which encompasses both the natural beauty of the north glen and the soon to open Gobbins cliff path. Does the Minister agree with me that it is important not just that we capture the day tripper, but that we also get overnight stays so that local hotels, bed and breakfasts and restaurants gain from such stays with additional resources? How is he ensuring that other Departments, such as DCAL and the Department of the Environment, which are responsible for a number of properties such as Carrickfergus Castle, maximise their input to the tourist industry, enhancing the product and encouraging those overnight stays?”
“Would he like to indicate where he thinks that the Minister should make cuts to deal with what he talked about?”
“It is subject to welfare reform being introduced in January, progressing through Consideration Stage at the end of February and full implementation of Executive-led measures by 2016-17. If we are building the financial package into the Budget, and if Members are to approve it, they cannot say that they are not aware of the conditions. Those are the conditions. I ask Members to recognise the difficult decisions that we face. If they are voting for the Budget, at the very least honour the conditions that are built into it and approve welfare reform, which would allow us to access the financial package and get our public finances back into order for the difficult times ahead.”
“I ask the Finance Minister to address what happens if there is no voluntary redundancy scheme. I am aware, through the utterances of the head of the Civil Service, that he needs a decision on whether it can be financed by, I think, August. We have to be fair to the individuals who have thought about the scheme and decided to apply for it. They are all hanging out there. If something does not happen, how will they be motivated in their ongoing work? We are not treating our employees — our civil servants — well. We need a scheme, and we need to provide it in a timely fashion. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, we must remember what was said about the financial package.”
“If we do not implement the voluntary redundancy scheme, we will have plenty of administrative jobs and not enough front-line teachers, doctors, nurses or those in the voluntary and community sector who address the needs of our community.”
“If we do not have a voluntary redundancy scheme to reduce the level of administration in the Civil Service, the community and voluntary sector and our front-line health and education services will suffer. Whether it comes through the Stormont House Agreement or by other means, we must have a scheme to reduce Civil Service administration, because we are living beyond our means. I want a higher proportion of our funding to go to direct services. I realise that that will cause difficulties and that there are many hard-working civil servants in Departments, but the reality of financial pressures means that that is what we face, and we ignore it at our peril.”
“To my mind, it is one of the most important aspects of the Budget because it brings savings to Departments not only this year but in future years.”
“<BR /> <BR />For those who are saying that they are not going to support welfare reform, I pose this question: how are you helping stability in Northern Ireland by creating a huge financial pressure, perhaps within a month or months? Perhaps we might make it as far as October but, ultimately, we have to live within our means. If, by some means, we muddle through, ultimately, the Treasury gives us its money. It has the upper hand and controls and regulates funding. Again, I go back to the point that we need a balanced and planned Budget, not an emergency Budget based on reaction and a failure of some to honour the conditions upon which the Executive may agree to go into financial borrowing. The worst thing that we can do is to create a Budget in which there are holes. <BR /> <BR />I will go back to the voluntary redundancy scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />In my constituency last year, the health trusts had to make sudden cuts because of financial pressures. Without going through the appropriate consultation etc, they decided to close minor injury units. In other areas, they reduced intermediate care beds, again creating a potential pressure in our hospitals when it came to winter pressures. They also were forced to take decisions when the Health Department stopped supporting the independent healthcare sector, which was controlling the growing waiting lists. That is no longer happening, and guess what has happened to that growing waiting list? We need to live within our means. We need to avoid such crisis decisions. We need to prioritise the expenditure that we know we can depend on.”
“We need to provide them with stability so that they can be encouraged to grow and invest because it is businesses that generate jobs for our people, and we need jobs. <BR />Not only do we want to encourage the expansion of our existing businesses but we want to encourage inward investment. I have to say that a Government that cannot live within their Budget do not encourage anyone, and nor do a Government that might have to make sudden changes in their expenditure, such as happened last year. I am flagging this issue up because we will be failing doubly if this happens for a second year in a row. The Government need to provide stability to encourage the community and to encourage good expenditure with all of the groups that they support. When we do not do that, we create problems for the entire community.”
“You do not make your real priority choices because you may well have committed to contracts that would not have been your priority had you known that you did not have the full money that had been allocated to you. By not making appropriate financial decisions on a timely basis, we as an Assembly and Executive are doing a disservice to our community, where, ultimately, sudden changes of direction and expenditure result. We will not get good value from the limited funds that we are given, and that is not a way that anyone should be managing an economy. <BR /> <BR />We need stability in Northern Ireland, not only political stability in the streets but financial stability. We need to encourage our businesses so that they can plan ahead and know what services are going to be provided.”
“The United Kingdom works collectively together and the more affluent places support those in greater need, so, as I indicated, if we do not meet the conditions of this Wonga-like Government loan, what will happen to our Budget? <BR /> <BR />Let us remember what happened a relatively short time ago. At the end of last year, it was clear that we were spending beyond our means. Our June monitoring round, for instance, was completed at the end of July and then instructions had to go out to claw back funds. Most Departments were issued with instructions for a clawback of 2·3% with a warning that a further 2·1% would be required later in the year. That, indeed, did happen and, despite all that, we were overcommitted by £100 million. When you claw back money, you do not make good use of money.”
“If an individual borrows and spends money that they do not meet the qualifying conditions for and might suddenly be required to pay back, they put themselves at risk. All of us would say that they were irresponsible. I pose the question: are we as an Assembly and as an Executive doing a similar thing and taking out a huge Government Wonga-like loan that we have access to but, as of yet, have not met the qualifying conditions for? Will we face clawback, and what will be the payback period? Will it be months? Will it be years? Those are real issues that must be determined, because the British Government finance us by money that is raised in other parts of the United Kingdom.”
“I have not heard any commitment to do that. Without the commitment to do that, we are breaching the financial conditions under which all this money, which, I believe, is built into the current Budget, has been made available. Therefore, I would argue that it is at considerable risk.”
“— I think that was delayed by a month or two, but, generally, it was met — and:”
“The Member seems to be living in the past. Does he not realise that there was an election recently? The Ulster Unionists stood on their own agenda, and we have two Members back on the green Benches, sitting on the Opposition Benches. We are glad that we are back at Westminster, and we will be arguing our case there, unlike the Members opposite in their party, and trying to influence people. I have to say that the attitude of Sinn Féin and its lack of responsibility is not encouraging for anyone or for any mature political debate or argument. <BR /> <BR />I go back to this financial package that is on offer to us and the condition under which it was added. There is a little paragraph near the end of the document, and it says:”
“I am curious that there has been an indication from the deputy First Minister that he will support the Budget to allow for more time, but I have indicated that the numbers have been known for two years, and I asked the Finance Minister to verify that. It has been about two years since the outline figures were shown to the previous Finance Minister. Since then, there have been numerous meetings with different Finance Ministers and the Treasury, and there have been meetings with the Prime Minister. Martin McGuinness had meetings with the Prime Minister. You can only kick the can so far down the road, and then it becomes an incredible argument. That is where I fear Sinn Féin is presently. It is arguing for something that is not credible. It might be easy to argue for it to avoid the difficult decisions —”
“The conditions of finance that are attached to the offer that was made to us will still exist. <BR /> <BR />It is important to recognise that the current Budget did not come suddenly out of the blue, and that is perhaps one of the most damming things about the lack of leadership that has been shown. The general numbers for public expenditure were shown two years ago. Why was there a general lack of preparation? Why did some of the difficult decisions and the downsizing not start some time ago, so that more money can be directed to front-line services?”
“My difficulty with that argument is that there were crunch talks just before Christmas. I think that the Prime Minister was across twice. It was a hothouse, and out of it came the Stormont House Agreement and the £2 billion financial package, much of it borrowing, but borrowing that allowed us, if well invested, to sort out our muddled finances. That money was not offered to any other region of the United Kingdom. Take, for example, the north of England, Liverpool, Scotland or Wales, those regions could equally find difficulties in their communities, and we have to recognise who won the election a short time ago. We have to face what we have on our plate today. I understand that we need to look forward to what may happen in the future, but looking forward will not stop the reality of the Budget crisis that we face.”
“If you really want to solve long-term poverty, education, education, education is the best method to allow people to better themselves, create opportunities for themselves and claw their way out of the poverty that they may find themselves in. I speak from my father's experience of the world many decades ago and that of his family. You cannot spend your way out of poverty. We need to empower people and support early years education so that they can better themselves. We need to create the incentives so that they can better themselves.”
“The financial package is available on the basis of welfare reform, and, given the failure to implement welfare reform, certainly to date, and on the current rules we cannot go back to it for some time, I ask the Minister to confirm the implications for this Budget without welfare reform being agreed. This needs to be publicly spelled out, and we have not heard it. People are concentrating on welfare reform, but what will happen to the most vulnerable members of our community if welfare reform is not implemented? <BR /> <BR />Early years was mentioned earlier, and I declare an interest as someone who is a voluntary committee member of Horizon Sure Start.”
“You should have your head down, because you are putting your head in the sand by ignoring the reality of the conditions in which borrowing has been offered to the Assembly and the Executive. At least that perked you up a wee bit.”
“Next, there is a further £350 million for borrowing for infrastructure built in and, I understand, £100 million to be available this financial year. I assume that it is built in. Again, I ask whether some Members across the way will fail to meet the conditions in which that borrowing was made. Then there is an additional £50 million towards Peace IV funding, including the United Youth programme. Then there is an extra £100 million for reinvestment and reform initiative borrowing. Has all of that been built in to this Budget, which will have to be clawed back and pulled back if the conditions are not met? I see that many across the way are sitting with their head down.”
“<BR /> <BR />I go back to the individual household, which avoids dealing with the reality of its expenditure, takes out large loans, and makes assumptions that do not materialise. What happens to that household? Ultimately, there will be a crisis. The Executive and the Assembly are kidding themselves that they will avoid such a crisis if they do not live within their means and the conditions under which the financial offer was made. <BR /> <BR />On top of that, there is £500 million for 10-year capital funding for shared and integrated education. Again I ask, how much of that £500 million capital expenditure has been built into our Budget this year. How do we recover that, if the conditions are not met?”
“I understand that most Departments have been building in six months of financial resource savings assuming that, from around September, departmental savings would kick in when some of their employees, who have volunteered to take early redundancy, take that up, the wages in each Department reduce, and savings start to manifest themselves. Those savings are important for the financial year 2015-16: the Budget that is being voted on today. Again, I ask whether that is going to happen, or will further debts accumulate in the second part of the year. It is not even just about that. The voluntary redundancies will also bring about financial savings next year; so, by not going forward clearly with what was agreed, we are pushing problems further and further down the line.”
“There is £700 million capital borrowing to fund a voluntary exit scheme. Again, £200 million is earmarked for this financial year. Has it been built into the Budget? I assume so. Without meeting the conditions on which the funding was offered, will that money continue to be available, or has there been some subtle change and welfare reform will be implemented. The sooner there are decisions, the better. <BR /> <BR />Equally important, aside from the round number of £200 million to enable the voluntary redundancy scheme, are the savings that will flow from it.”
“If there is a breach of the conditions, then there is a breach of the funding that has been built into the Budget. What would be the implications of that? <BR /> <BR />I will go through some of the details of the funding, because I have not heard this mentioned, in particular, so far today. I see that paragraph 3 in the Stormont House Agreement highlights that there is around a £2 billion financial package, much of it in loans offered over many years. It is based on the Assembly legislating for welfare reform, which some have chosen not to approve. They have breached some of the conditions for the funding package. I ask what the implications of that are for the Budget. Some of the financial package on offer is for £150 million, over five years, towards dealing with the past. I ask how much of this has been built into the current Budget.”
“That must be of concern to us all, because, ultimately, it has to be paid back with interest. The further we kick issues down the line, the further we are passing debts on to the next generation, whether it is the next Assembly or the young folk who have to follow on from us. We all have to understand, even as politicians, that borrowing must be paid back. It is important that we live within our means. <BR /> <BR />Another fundamental assumption in the Budget is what has come to be known as the Stormont House Agreement. Those who support the Budget are approving it with the related funding and conditions that were built into the Stormont House Agreement, because that was the basis on which much of the loans, funding and financial assistance was offered to the Northern Ireland Executive.”
“The Northern Ireland Executive need to understand that they are no different from rules that we expect individual households in our community to live by. During the recent election, some members of Sinn Féin promised to write off credit card debts and all sorts of things, but there is no money tree and you cannot promise that. Similarly, there is only so much funding for the Northern Ireland Executive, and we have to live within our means in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the Budget specifically. There are several assumptions built into the Budget. For a start, some £1·7 billion in cumulative borrowing has been amassed over the years. As my colleague Leslie Cree indicated, that is some £948 per citizen, which is a higher level than in other parts of the United Kingdom.”
“It gives the Executive the legal authority to allow the various Departments and organisations to spend public money. They are not authorised to spend above the legal limit collectively as a Northern Ireland Executive. Individual Departments are to avoid over-expenditure unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as, for example, to protect public safety. That happens on occasion. <BR /> <BR />If an individual spends beyond their means, what happens to them? They frequently rely on credit cards and get involved in high-interest borrowing, and the issue can frequently spiral and further debts can arise. Maybe they will have several credit cards or get a Wonga loan and pay very high interest rates, but, eventually, the problems have to be faced. If not, there will be sudden cuts to individual households or bankruptcy.”
“Just as political parties in Northern Ireland have respected their local government budgets, the Westminster Government, which financed the vast majority of expenditure in the Northern Ireland Assembly, gave us our funding. What do you think they think of us when we do not live within our means with all the money that is given to us? I can assure you that we are not well thought of by others in the rest of the United Kingdom who have had to live within their budget, whether it be local councils, other public bodies etc. I suspect that they are saying that we are demonstrating our immaturity. <BR /> <BR />So, budgets are important to a range of organisations, including non-departmental bodies and the Northern Ireland Executive as well. In the Budget, the Assembly prioritises its expenditure plans.”
“Let us have no doubt it: budgets are important. They are important to determine how much money will be raised in the first place, how much will be spent and what the priority will be. That is important whether we are talking about an individual household, a community group or a local council. It is interesting that local councils ended up having reduced grants given to them by the Assembly. What did they do? Did they complain and refuse to raise more money or to balance their books, perhaps cut, perhaps raise some more money and balance their budgets? No. Every council in Northern Ireland set its budget. <BR /> <BR />What if they do not set their budget and live within their means? There are regulations that would cause them to lose their authority to continue to operate if they did not do that.”
“Does the Member agree that raising the issue of corporation tax in terms of this Budget is a bit of a red herring? I am not aware of any funds being taken out of this specific Budget for corporation tax. We can determine the rate of corporation tax in the future, if the ability to do so is granted to us, but this Budget is not taking out funds to be spent on reducing corporation tax. If it is approved, along with the Stormont House Agreement, the ability to decide that in future would exist.”
“Given the degree of public funding involved in the project and the degree of public interest, will the Minister explain why these fundamental design and safety issues, which can be life-or-death issues, were not adequately addressed at the design stage and somehow proceeded to the planning permission stage?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. June is, thankfully, predicted to be a relatively dry and summery month. We do not know what lies beyond that, but can the Minister assure us that there are sufficient stocks of water in the other reservoirs that serve the wider east Antrim area to carry us over the summer?”
“Will the Minister confirm that it would be inequitable if he were to restrict funding to, say, groups larger than 4,000? In fact, it was for equality reasons that smaller pockets of deprivation were not excluded in the past. Will he confirm that they will continue to be assisted in the future?”
“I recall a number of years ago, when I was a member of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, that a new Budget process was being arranged that would improve transparency and adopt best practice, but that was ultimately blocked by Sinn Féin Ministers, so I find it rather strange that that question was asked by a Member from that party. <BR /> <BR />Can the Minister advise the House of the actions that she has taken to ensure that we have a real Budget and, apart from that, to ensure that we have a better process such as the one that was previously approved by the Committee for Finance and Personnel and, indeed, the Assembly?”
“The Member is incorrectly quoting what I said. If Hansard is examined, it will show that I made complimentary comments about community transport during my speech yesterday. I ask the Member to withdraw his remarks.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Member is misquoting me. If he examines Hansard, he will see that I made constructive comments about community transport.”
“Indeed. What I would like to hear are constructive ideas coming forward on how to bring about improvements. Everyone is well aware that, with in-year monitoring last year and money being clawed back from the Department, lights were not being fixed and drains were not being cleared as frequently as they should. That ought to have been a major warning of the severity and critical nature of the Department's finances at that time, and it should have been recognised. <BR />The people of Northern Ireland deserve better. We deserve better than fantasy economics and phantom budgets. Clearly, this is a failure to address the main issue, which is solving the overall economic situation.”
“It is just nitpicking that is going on. I think that everyone should look at what they are doing and at how they can solve the problem. <BR /> <BR />Given the level of the reduction, some Departments' budgets have been subject to more criticism than others, but undoubtedly there will be problems in every Department, so why has this Minister, whose budget has been severely impacted, been picked out? It is really infantile politics.”
“Even at this minute in time, a further £100 million of excess spending last year is hanging over all our heads that could significantly adversely impact this year's spending if that agreement, which would allow it to be paid back on a longer-term basis, is not honoured. <BR /> <BR />The Committee Chair spoke of the role of the Committee in scrutinising the departmental budget. Yes, that is an important role, but scrutiny should not be about nitpicking and highlighting issues that do not bring about a solution and improvement. In my opinion, criticism should be constructive, with alternatives suggested. Certainly, when I was a member of the Health Committee and saw that there were difficulties, I supported every bid for more money in the annual monitoring rounds. That is not what is happening in this Committee.”
“We are sitting in the Chamber today where it is anticipated that, very soon, the Budget will be brought forward — a Budget that does not consider the current financial reality that we are in. It is being brought about because three parties in this Chamber killed off a Bill, which is an action that comes with a consequence of at least £2 million a week in the current year, which, as I understand it, may rise to £4 million a week next year. On top of that is the absence of the voluntary redundancy scheme, which would allow us to free up our finances. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party opposed the Budgets that were brought forward for this mandate. We did not believe that they were fit for purpose. We have been proven right, as the mismanagement over the past four years has led to greater financial pain in the final year.”
“How do you maintain your budget? Your budget is set by the Finance Minister in the annual Budget, so how does the Department get more money into it? It bids for more, but the Finance Minister and the Executive have rejected that, so I really do not understand that criticism. You have to almost admire the sheer arrogance of some of the comments.”
“It contains a line about losing confidence in the Department's:”
“Reductions in budgets are occurring, and difficulties are being created, principally by the parties who approved the Budget — the DUP and Sinn Féin — who then criticise the outworkings of their Budget rather than dealing with the issue and solving some of the difficulties. I go back to what I said earlier: we need our voluntary redundancy scheme to free up money so that it can be used to address the needs of the community. What is stopping it? It was built into the Stormont House Agreement and welfare reform, which Sinn Féin, in particular, along with the SDLP, is preventing from going through. That causes knock-on effects for every Department and for the vulnerable in our community. <BR /> <BR />The motion today is nothing but an attempt to direct attention away from the financial mess that we find ourselves in.”
“The Member did not give way to me earlier, and now he expects me to give way to him. Alex Easton also criticised Translink's plan to reduce its reserves. There has been criticism of the level of reserves. The Department recognised that Translink had too many reserves and reduced its budget so that they come down, and you are still criticising that. What do you wish to do with those reserves, keep them at the high level? Whatever you do, it seems to be criticism for criticism's sake. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the crux of the matter, which is the current financial crisis here.”