Roy Beggs
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I declare an interest as owner of 25 acres of agricultural land; also, my parents run a small agricultural business. <BR /> <BR />There is a shortage of fertiliser, and the Minister has referred to the present difficulties in Ukraine that are contributing to that. That shortage exists even at the exorbitant cost of £1,000 per ton.”
“of public bodies in Northern Ireland. That is vital in order to reassure the public that money is being spent appropriately. That is to be done independently.”
“There has been a very close working relationship and a close partnership. Where issues needed highlighted and where the Assembly, through its scrutiny mechanisms, needed to dig deeper to get better value and better accountability, that occurred.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on the close working relationship that there has been between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which the C&AG oversees and manages, and the Assembly, particularly the Public Accounts Committee.”
“As we consider this motion to nominate a new Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland, it is important that we reflect on the importance that the role has in any democracy. The C&AG in Northern Ireland is the head of the Northern Ireland Audit Office.”
“P&O has brutally cast its workforce aside in a Dickensian fashion. There was no consultation or notice, and the company delivered a live message by video link. Will the Minister clarify whether the P&O redundancy announcement is covered by maritime law, Northern Ireland employment law or GB employment law?”
The complete record
Every one of 1,772 lines we hold for Roy Beggs, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 22 of 36.
“It is easy to say that we will get it some time in the new year, because if we do not get it then, we will not get it at all. Why do we not have a date for its arrival? Why was the Bill afforded accelerated passage, and why has it not been given proper time for scrutiny? <BR /> <BR />Every party in the House wants to see a reduction in the apparatus of government to give us a more streamlined and efficient Executive. Sinn Féin and the DUP should have absolutely nothing to fear from proper scrutiny; it makes for better government.”
“Earlier in the debate, Mr McIlveen referred to other changes that have been agreed. Whatever is happening behind the scenes should be happening transparently, with the public being able to make suggestions as well. It should not be a case of deals being made in smoke-filled rooms where one side gets this and the other side gets that, or something equally ridiculous. This should be about good governance for Northern Ireland. Hopefully, the Executive will move forward, giving the public and MLAs a copy soon. <BR /> <BR />Where is this transfer of functions order? The latest that we have been told is that we can expect it some time in the new year. Well, we know that we will definitely get it before the election in May 2016.”
“Youth unemployment remains stubbornly high — among the highest in the United Kingdom — and the so-called Fresh Start Agreement is beginning to look like a false start, with Sinn Féin already rowing back from its support for the devolution of corporation tax-varying powers and setting the rate at 12·5% in 2018. If the reorganisation of Departments is to happen, it should be done correctly and should not be rushed through. We have not seen the transfer of functions order, which is mentioned in the Fresh Start Agreement. The agreement states:”
“The Member is referring to something that happened several decades ago. I do not have the details at hand. You are trying to rely on something that happened decades ago, but that was a very different time. Clearly, we need to move forward. Having sown the seeds of a stable, democratic Northern Ireland several decades ago, we think it should now be about delivering and good governance. That is what needs to happen today. <BR /> <BR />For too long, the Executive have played fast and loose with people's prospects for jobs and of having money in their back pocket.”
“I want to proceed. <BR /> <BR />In its latest forecast, the consultancy firm EY, formerly Ernst and Young, has predicted that the Northern Ireland economy will grow by 1·7% in 2015, whilst the Republic of Ireland's growth is forecast to be 5·8%. I reiterate: three times as fast as ours. The people of Northern Ireland deserve better. The Assembly was supposed to be about delivery, not survival. It was supposed to be about delivering for the people of Northern Ireland. It is past time that this Northern Ireland Executive started delivering. Their time is running out. It is time for a new Executive to be in place and to deliver to meet the needs of the people.”
“We are simply pointing out what good government is. Good government should not rely on accelerated passage. This has been talked about for years and years; with regard to the Department for the Economy, it has been six years. Why has this legislation not been moved sooner? It is absolutely ridiculous that we are facing it only now, a few months from the end of the Assembly term. Remember, the Assembly was originally to be a four-year Assembly. We are already on nine months of borrowed time and are beyond what should have been our life.”
“Improving government structures for the economy has been so urgent that it has taken six long years to get to where we are today. Given the current situation, with the Republic of Ireland's economy reported to be growing three times faster than Northern Ireland's, the sooner that happens, the better.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party welcomes the proposed reduction in the number of Departments from 12 to nine. It is better late than never. There are advantages, such as saving on personnel, but, more importantly, as I briefly outlined, there will be greater clarity of areas of responsibility and an ability to better coordinate. <BR /> <BR />As my colleague Andy Allen pointed out, the reorganisation of Departments has been in the pipeline for years, with none more so than the creation of a single Department for the Economy. That goes back to 2009, when the independent review of economic policy made its recommendations. We were told at the time by the then Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, Minister Foster, that she would give the report "full and urgent consideration".”
“The Member rightly highlights the duplication that exists with regard to flooding. There is the involvement of the Rivers Agency, Transport NI, obviously, and Northern Ireland Water, potentially. In recent years, the former Minister for Regional Development argued that we should bring forward the transfer and create one Department that would be responsible for flooding to try to better coordinate such events: why has that not happened sooner?”
“<BR /> <BR />I noticed in the private Member's Bill an ability for a court to attach and vary conditions following the intervention of the PSNI district commander. I welcome that. It means that, if issues arise, they can be addressed without the need for further regulations. That is a wise area to have included in the Bill. She has sought to fill a very specific gap in the current legislation: the absence of an outdoor regional stadia licence. I support the principles of the Bill and encourage Members to allow it to move forward to the detailed scrutiny stage.”
“However, the requirement for them to be off the premises by 9.00 pm, which would often be earlier than the end of the sporting event, is just ridiculous in this day and age. We have learned that an amendment was made to enable indoor stadia to be licensed. So, we can license indoor stadia but not outdoor stadia. Clearly there is a gap in our legislation, and this private Member's Bill appears to be picking up that issue and addressing it. <BR /> <BR />I note that various sporting bodies can impose their own restrictions. In football guidance, I see that UEFA and FIFA may further limit a stadium above and beyond any local guidance or regulations. Equally, other sporting bodies can impose further sanctions and restrictions if they feel that it is necessary to do so.”
“I also commend her for gaining a considerable public response to it, which has shown a high level of support for her proposals. <BR /> <BR />It is quite surprising to think that some of our major sporting and entertainment organisations — the way sport has gone, it is now "sport and entertainment" — have been reliant on an occasional licence as part of their business model to entertain during their regular matches. Should such a business have to operate with such temporary arrangements? It is wrong, and that applies equally to the stadium that is being developed at Windsor Park and the new GAA stadium when one is eventually built. <BR /> <BR />The requirement for a young person to be supervised on the premises as part of the licence is fine.”
“What happened after that? Is this another area where the Executive have been busy consulting and analysing but making no change to meet the needs of our community? <BR /> <BR />Some of those consultation responses would have highlighted the anomaly with, and the absence of, licensing at regional outdoor stadia in Northern Ireland. Yet, no legislative proposals were progressed in that area by the current Social Development Minister or his predecessor over that three-year period. <BR /> <BR />Going back to the point made earlier, we have produced a detailed consultation, analysed it and then failed to bring about legislative improvement. So, I commend Mrs Judith Cochrane for picking up the issue in her private Member's Bill to address one of the anomalies in our licensing laws, namely with regard to outdoor regional stadia.”
“I too welcome the Second Stage of the Licensing Bill. I congratulate Judith Cochrane on the progress of her private Member's Bill and hope that it will gain support and move on to Committee Stage for detailed scrutiny. I declare an interest as a former rugby player and member of Larne Rugby Football Club. It was some years ago that I was playing rugby; I occasionally graced the Ravenhill turf. <BR /> <BR />I notice that licensing is yet another area in which the Northern Ireland Executive and in particular, as Dolores Kelly said, the Social Development Minister have failed to address legislation in an area of need. In particular, I notice that there was a 2012 consultation on proposed changes to the law on regulating the sale and supply of alcohol in Northern Ireland. That was almost three years ago, and there were 2,500 responses.”
“Question 6, is it? Sorry, topical question 6.”
“I am supportive of the general principles of the Bill and look forward to more detailed scrutiny, which, as others have said, has already commenced.”
“If they are already operating to a high standard, why would we add another layer of bureaucracy and include them in this provision? I agree with the principle of trying to minimise both the involvement of government and costs and of being able to justify those areas that will be included.”
“<BR /> <BR />I agree with putting some exemptions in the Bill. The example of student accommodation has been given to us. We are being advised that there is already a high degree of scrutiny and checking of fire exits etc and that the risks do not justify a further level of bureaucracy and costs on top of the checks that already happen. What would be gained by adding to the provisions accommodation that is managed by universities etc? I agree with that exemption. We want to minimise bureaucracy that we are creating, and we have to justify the area of scrutiny. It has been shown to us that there is a particular issue with supportive housing. Housing that is managed by housing associations and is of a good standard has, on occasions, significantly higher levels of protection than is envisaged in this legislation.”
“Often, and certainly in the case of students, everybody thinks that it is somebody else. They may even think that it is the landlord. In that type of situation, nobody thinks that they are responsible. It is important that someone takes responsibility and ensures that no unsafe conditions pertain. It is also important that it is possible to contact the person responsible for the house. On occasions, you hear of stories where the owner of a property cannot be contacted, so how do you solve the problem that exists, whether for the tenant or the neighbouring tenants or occupants? It is right and proper that there are appropriate management systems in place to enable contact with either the appropriate landlord or someone who has clear responsibility and can solve the difficulties that are being experienced.”
“It would be easy to widen it to all houses that are being let, but I welcome the fact that this is being concentrated on houses in multiple occupation because of the higher risk factor that exists there. It is right that the authorities should work with those houses and improve them and minimise the risks to tenants who may be more vulnerable. I also see in the explanatory notes to the Bill that this is likely to become an area of increasing importance related to the ongoing welfare reform. If we are going to have more people living in such accommodation in the long term, it is important that we provide them with the necessary protections. <BR /> <BR />Why is a house in multiple occupation a particular risk? The very basic question to ask is this: who is in charge of the house?”
“Another aspect of houses in multiple occupation, whether for students or others, is that, on occasions, they are houses from not particularly good stock. They can be damp or cold and may even have very poor energy efficiency. Is the Minister thinking along the lines of putting in minimum standards? Will he require, particularly when new applications are made, that certain basic modern standards are adopted in order to ensure that those who may be more vulnerable and have limited choices are in reasonable accommodation? <BR /> <BR />I accept — I think that it is widely accepted — that houses in multiple occupation can pose a higher risk. I agree with the principle of the Bill in concentrating in this area initially.”
“If you register as owning housing in multiple occupation, will you automatically be registered as a landlord? Can we try to minimise the level of bureaucracy and ensure that we capture all relevant information in as efficient a mechanism as possible?”
“I welcome the fact that local government could play a key role in the legislation, providing joined-upness in government, if all that is eventually brought together so that it can use its expertise in other relevant areas to ensure that appropriate planning permissions are achieved and that individuals can live safely in their accommodation. <BR /> <BR />It is disappointing, of course, that the Regeneration Bill did not proceed, because it would have been useful if it had been passed to local government. How are we going to identify the under-registration that exists, even in landlord registration? There are landlords out there who, regardless of whether they own homes of multiple accommodation, should be registered as landlords. Can we avoid duplication?”
“I can think of one example of student accommodation that I visited where there was a basic amenity, a fridge, connected to an electrical plug via a block terminal connector that sat on top of a kitchen bench. That was not particularly safe. Such basic amenities should be connected safely to the power supply and should not endanger the lives of the occupants of shared accommodation. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the linkage of the regulations with other government functions, namely planning, building control and environmental health, because local government can play quite an important role there. It will come across difficulties in the community through a range of complaints about damp or a lack of planning approval etc.”
“I share the comments made by other Members in welcoming, on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, the general principles of the Bill. Clearly, it deals with an issue of some importance. It concerns an area that has not been regulated appropriately and where we can improve lives and remove risks that may exist in houses of multiple occupation. <BR /> <BR />I declare an interest in that I have a son who is a student and may be in a house that will be covered by the Bill. Thankfully, he is in a good house, but I think back to previous student days and accommodation that I have seen. It is very clear that there is a need for legislation to cover the private sector.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement highlighting the importance of early intervention and classes such as family sign language, which can improve the communication skills and development of a deaf child. You currently offer only some families free classes to learn British sign language at Jordanstown School, for example. Legislation will take time and not create a bigger budget in Northern Ireland, so my question, Minister, is this: will you prioritise such classes, making them free for all families, in your current and future budget?”
“Is the Member aware of the Housing (Amendment) Bill that is currently going through? It might lend itself to such amendments. Will he make a point of looking at it and, perhaps, support me in widening the information's availability?”
“— to ensure that appropriate generic drugs are allocated rather than some of the branded drugs. That could be easy pickings. I ask that we continue to push along that way.”
“I note that the relevant memorandum, dated 1 May 2015, indicates that contract negotiations on that aspect are going on to see how there can perhaps be better management and performance measurement. There is an indication that this could relate to the pharmacy issue. That is an important area in which there could be significant savings without penalty to the public. Improvements can occur —”
“That will, in turn, enable it to provide a better service. Things are starting to improve, and that has to be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />I will touch briefly on the report on primary care prescribing. There are very significant costs in prescribing medicines in Northern Ireland, as there are in other parts of the United Kingdom. The Audit Office report highlighted that significant savings could be made by following good practice. From my experience on the Health Committee, I would argue that there has been overprescribing in some areas. Indeed, the Audit Office report shows that there was huge variation between GP practices with the lowest prescribing rates and those with the highest, with the highest prescribers costing more than twice as much as the lowest. Clearly, there is work to be done there.”
“I see from the Department of Finance and Personnel's 9 July 2015 memorandum that not only was a non-executive director with extensive management experience in the banking sector appointed in 2011 but a second such independent adviser was appointed in January 2015. That is to be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />I move on to other aspects of the service. One issue that was not covered was that too much funding had been allocated to low interest-paying savings accounts. That would be fairly obvious to anyone considering whether it was a good investment. Clearly, there was a need to modernise the structure and the ability to wisely invest those funds. I welcome the recommendation that we made and, indeed, to a degree, the subsequent efforts by the Department of Justice to modernise its legislation.”
“What we and, indeed, the Audit Office report found was that this has been a Cinderella service, stuck in the past and not providing value for money. Perhaps, given the lack of scrutiny and focus that would have been on it prior to devolution, that is not surprising. The Committee found that the Court Funds Office had a lack of financial expertise and was almost totally reliant on the professional advice of a stockbroker to make recommendations regarding the investment of client funds. That is the function of a professional expert in this area, but it is also good to have a degree of independent scrutiny of actions that have been taken.”
“First, I reiterate the words of the Chairperson in thanking the Northern Ireland Audit Office staff and, indeed, our Assembly Committee staff for their help and support during my period on the Committee. There is good partnership working, and everyone benefits from that. I will focus on the managing and protecting of funds held in court. I hope that, later, as a former member of the Health Committee, I will have time to touch briefly on primary care prescribing. <BR /> <BR />The Court Funds Office provides a banking and investment service for some of the most vulnerable people in society including minors and adults who are incapable of looking after their own affairs. It manages their money at the behest of the courts. At the time of our report, it was responsible for managing some £290 million on behalf of 14,000 clients.”
“I remain of the view that the amendment has merit, and I ask Members to consider it rather than simply push it aside and say, "This isn't the right vehicle". I pose to Members these questions: what is wrong with it and what alternative vehicle is available?”
“If special advisers knew that, if they do not behave appropriately, they could be exposed through referral to the ombudsman, they would act more appropriately in the public interest. I believe that this is an appropriate vehicle. I also believe that it could drive up standards in how Ministers and civil servants behave. Even in cases in which the ombudsman may not need to intervene at all, he could bring about improvement in behaviour and a better honouring of the code of conduct that our senior civil servants who are special advisers are meant to follow.”
“It is important that we recognise that there is possibly a role for the ombudsman in this area. He has, of course, a degree of independence, therefore his outcomes should be respected. <BR /> <BR />I would also argue that, if the ombudsman had this power, it would have a series of knock-on effects. It may not work retrospectively, but I am trying to improve things for the future. If, in the future, a Minister knew that, if he did not act appropriately, the matter could be referred to the ombudsman and, ultimately, that inappropriate action in allowing a detailed disciplinary investigation would be exposed, I believe that Ministers would act appropriately rather than potentially expose themselves.”
“It seems to me that there has been an acceptance that the current code of conduct for special advisers has been abused in the past. However, some indicated that they do not think that this is the best vehicle via which to try to plug that gap. It is certainly the view of Alex Maskey, who spoke on my amendment, that it is not the appropriate vehicle. What has not been acknowledged is that an earlier attempt to resolve this issue in specific legislation was blocked by the DUP through a petition of concern. There is a lack of clarity on what the appropriate vehicle is. There is some merit in using the ombudsman for this function and for the ombudsman to intervene, not in every case but when complaints have not been dealt with to the satisfaction of a complainant.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member says that the issue should be dealt with under the code of conduct: the code of conduct worked. The matter was investigated by the Department of Finance and Personnel, and issues of a potentially disciplinary nature were highlighted. The Department then duly recommended a formal disciplinary investigation of a senior member of the Northern Ireland Civil Service who happened to be a special adviser, but guess what? Approval from the Minister was required, and, when that was not forthcoming, nothing happened. My point is that the current code of conduct system is not working.”
“Will the Member accept that, with the amendment, if inappropriate action is taken, the ombudsman can step in? You say that this would not help: do you not find it rather strange that, in that case, instead of facing formal disciplinary action, the special adviser was promoted?”
“I have also indicated that the current wording may well have a very significant gap. I ask you to support amendment No 31.”
“There are no avoidance clauses that might restrict the investigation if an individual has acted outside the normal Civil Service guidance. There might be a case in the future where this happens again and a Minister does not permit a recommendation that has come up from the Civil Service — actually, from the Department of Finance and Personnel — which scrutinised the individual against the code of conduct that the Assembly agreed in 2013. If there is a recommendation that there should be formal disciplinary action, this would be a mechanism whereby an ombudsman could step in should a Minister decide to shield an individual for whatever reason. There would be openness and accountability, and such action could not occur again in the future. <BR /> <BR />I have indicated to Members that there has been a problem in the past.”
“I turn to the specifics of amendment No 31, which is in my name. The clause currently reads:”
“My reading is that, when an individual acts in the discharge of functions under that authority, he becomes accountable to the ombudsman in the current legislation. The problem, however, with the case that I have highlighted is that many believe that the individual was acting far beyond the code of conduct of a special adviser. We should endeavour to ensure that such a thing does not happen again and that we do not face a situation in which a Minister could shield a special adviser who may not have acted appropriately under the code of conduct.”
“<BR /> <BR />For that reason, I wish to examine clause 13 in detail. Clause 13 is headed: "Meaning of action taken by a listed authority". Clause 12 lists those authorities, and it refers to schedule 3. Departments are a listed authority, so, at first glance, one could think, "Happy days — everything is sorted. There is clear scrutiny and accountability that the ombudsman could investigate". However, in clause 13 —"Meaning of action taken by a listed authority" — I have a concern about subsection (1)(b):”
“What would happen if a special adviser, on the encouragement of his or her Minister, acted outside the code of conduct? Does anyone think that such a Minister would agree to initiate an investigatory disciplinary action against their special adviser? There is clearly a weakness in the system. My concern is that the Bill may not be specific enough and may enable that to continue. My understanding is that in Westminster, Cardiff, Edinburgh and the Dáil in Dublin, if such a thing were to happen, public and media pressure would require that the issue be dealt with appropriately. Why not do that in Belfast? It has not happened in Belfast. I do not know whether it is down to our special arrangements about appointments. It is unhealthy that there is a lack of clarity on whether the code of conduct has been followed or, as many suspect, breached.”
“I will now examine the evidence given to the Committee and refer to the special advisers' code of conduct which states that there should be integrity and honesty and that special advisers should not knowingly mislead the Assembly. My Committee colleagues concluded that Mr Brimstone was not a very convincing witness. The number of times that the answer to a question was "I do not recall" was remarkable. For that reason, I highlight the fact that the current system of scrutinising special advisers should be included under the powers of the ombudsman, and we have an opportunity today to do that. <BR /> <BR />The Committee found that, surprisingly, the decision following the recommendation for a formal disciplinary inquiry fell not to the Civil Service but to the Minister.”
“At present, we have a system that uncovered wrongdoing and, at the end of it, one would have expected action to clarify exactly what happened and whether or not formal disciplinary action would have been required.”
“The Department's report was heavily redacted and, indeed, of the 13 paragraphs of conclusion, only paragraph 12 was not redacted. Of the four paragraphs of recommendations, two and a half were redacted. What remained was fascinating. There was a formal recommendation:”
“Indeed, that was one of the recommendations of that exploratory investigation. <BR /> <BR />The report makes fascinating reading in the comments attributed to Stephen Brimstone by, I think, Jenny Palmer including:”
“As a member of the Social Development Committee, which I joined on 9 February this year, I became involved in the latter parts of what came to be known as the Red Sky affair, particularly the Committee's phase 3 report, which was published on 16 April 2015, following the BBC 'Spotlight' inquiry. Amongst the summary of that report, you will find relevance to clause 13 of this legislation. <BR />The Committee heard extensive evidence in relation to the actions of Minister McCausland's special adviser and the role of the Department for Social Development in claims about political lobbying in favour of Red Sky. In the summary, there is an indication that:”