Sammy Wilson
MP for East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Foreign Secretary has said that his concern is for the behaviour of some settlers on the west bank, and I think we all share that, but does he accept that the fear of losing votes to the Green party and the independent Members on the Bench behind me is also…”
“It is a sad state of affairs when ordinary people feel compelled to take direct action against illegal immigration into our country as a result of successive Governments failing to stop the invasion of our country by illegal immigrants, aided by criminal gangs.”
“The Chancellor has rightly identified trade frictions as a major impediment to economic growth. As a result of the Windsor framework, the internal market in the UK has been severely disrupted by EU-imposed restrictions on trade, which mean customs unions, mountains of paperwork and physical barriers. What steps does the right hon.”
“We would not need these regulations were it not for EU regulations having to apply to a certain part of the United Kingdom because it is regarded as part of the EU, regardless of the democratic vote of the British people to leave the EU. This is not about protecting biodiversity.”
“Because they are now subject to all these additional regulations. If they do not abide by those regulations—we have already seen this—those goods can be seized, destroyed, re-exported or detained by DAERA in Northern Ireland. That is not something which is just a maybe; it happens currently.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alec. The Minister outlined why these regulations were necessary and gave what, to most on the Committee, would be an acceptable argument: they are to protect biodiversity in Northern Ireland and to ensure that diseased plants are not accessing the Northern Ireland market.”
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“The other opponents of the Bill are the trade unions, which are organising a one-day strike against it and other measures some time in March. At the same time as they complain about youth unemployment and the low-wage economy, they oppose a measure that has the potential to address all of those issues and want to strike against it. I do not understand their logic. The only other party that opposes the measure is the traditional Unionist voice, but I think that is because we support it. That seems to be the rationale for anything it does. All parties in this House are agreed that tax incentives can be beneficial in stimulating business growth.”
“If the hon. Lady is not feeling sore from some of my remarks, she is more brazen than I thought she was— [ Laughter. ] As she has not yet heard the rest of my speech, she does not know what I am going to say or the balanced arguments that I am going to make about corporation tax. Everyone who has spoken so far has suggested that there is widespread support for the Bill in Northern Ireland. That is, of course, not true. The Green party opposes it, but then that party opposes economic growth apparently, according to its latest manifesto. I can understand, therefore, why it would not want to see any measures that would encourage economic growth in Northern Ireland. I do not know how the Green party expects us to tackle our unemployment or standard of living problems with no economic growth, but in any event it opposes the Bill.”
“The shadow spokesman wants to know the reason for my alleged conversion. This is one of the issues to weigh in the balance. Can we just drift along, knowing that regardless of which party is in government at Westminster the public sector is going to contract, and make no provision for expanding the private sector?”
“At maximum, it could be about 3% of the current revenue budget available to Northern Ireland. In the current circumstances, to try to find that immediately would be very difficult, which is one reason why the decision to introduce this will not be implemented until at least 2016-17. That will give the Executive time to plan. We must remember, however, that the reduction in the block grant and money available for public expenditure in Northern Ireland will be offset by the expansion in other parts of the economy. Yes, that is a gamble, but can we politicians in Northern Ireland sit on our hands and do nothing, knowing that public expenditure is going to tighten, regardless of whether there is a Labour or Conservative Administration, given how heavily reliant we are on public expenditure? That would be wrong.”
“That was exactly the point I was going to make. Having said that there are exceptions to this, the exemptions are important because one of the fastest-growing sectors in the higher wage end of the Northern Ireland economy has been those back-office financial services jobs. We would not want to lose the ability to attract them. There is provision in the Bill to allow for that. Whether they are brought as separate or spur companies to the main company, they will nevertheless be subject to the new regime. There are some dangers. One danger we have heard about time and again—it was alluded to by the shadow Secretary of State—is the potential loss of public sector expenditure. Under the Azores ruling, we will have to pay for whatever the forgone revenue happens to be. That will depend on the rate we eventually set.”
“Given the comments from the hon. Gentleman’s party and the Labour party, I suspect the grant will not be higher. Furthermore, we still have to deal with our dependence on public sector expenditure. It is being squeezed all the time, and therefore we need to look at rebalancing the economy.”
“Member for North Shropshire said that from this day on the Executive should be proceeding with this matter, but we cannot do so because the Bill has not yet been passed. I know he is enthusiastic, but I think his enthusiasm has run away from the reality: the Bill has to pass its stages as normal.”
“As the changes to the rules on accounting and disclosure come forward, I know that some of the financial services issues might be addressed, but we have not touched on the ongoing cost of the devolution of corporation tax, which is currently reckoned to be about £300 million. However, as the economy grows, a formula will be imposed in respect of the loss of revenue, and given that there could be a substantial reduction in corporation tax in Northern Ireland, the formula must not be draconian. For example, if it was set at an unrealistic rate, based on the performance of better performing regions or of the UK economy as a whole, the burden could become substantially higher as time goes on. We need clarity on that issue. The right hon.”
“That is one of the reasons, of course, that some people say the public sector accounts for as much as 62% of employment in Northern Ireland. Some of it is disguised in the way the hon. Lady suggests. We have to consider whether we can simply sit on our hands. However, there is a second consideration for the Northern Ireland Executive. Yes, there is some risk attached to the policy; all economic policies carry some risk, but in measuring and trying to balance that risk, we have to consider the impact of the policy elsewhere, especially in areas similar to Northern Ireland. I have already mentioned the approach of the Republic of Ireland Government.”
“On the last point, given that the ongoing cost is not known yet, there remain some issues to resolve. There is a challenge, not for politicians, but for the businesses that have campaigned for the devolution of corporation tax. As the shadow Secretary of State said, those businesses have a responsibility not to use their profits simply to pay higher salaries for managers, for shareholders or for vanity projects. Having campaigned for this change, and given its implications for expenditure in Northern Ireland, they have a responsibility to ensure that the additional money that results from forgoing tax revenue is invested in their companies to increase productivity, make them more competitive and create better-paid jobs. Only then will this campaign have been a success.”
“Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that, first, budgetary planning must be put in place to deal with the payment that will come off the block grant? Secondly, as many firms make investment decisions over a long period, it makes sense to announce the change soon, but for payment to be in two years’ time, because that will reduce the cost to the Northern Ireland Executive, while at the same time attract firms that are thinking about investment now, but which will perhaps not implement it for a couple of years.”
“Last week, while gunmen were rampaging through the streets of Paris, a leading Muslim spokesman in Northern Ireland, Dr Al-Wazzan, was telling the BBC that the west had brought this on itself through its foreign policy. He later withdrew those remarks under pressure. Will the Home Secretary join me in calling for all those who have leadership in the Muslim community to say and do nothing that would give any justification for people to believe that terrorism in the name of their faith is ever justified, and to realise that such words only breed and create division?”
“The additional money made available to Northern Ireland through flexibility and borrowing, and the extra money for the additional institutions, will be welcome. Despite what the hon. Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) said in his little Englander outburst, which helps nationalism more than the nasty nationalists of this House do when it comes to the break-up of the Union, this is something that Northern Ireland needed. The important thing is to rebalance the economy as well. Will the Secretary of State spell out for us what exactly she means when she says that the Government will use their “best endeavours” to get the legislation on corporation tax through Parliament? Does that mean that that might not happen, and if not, why can she not give total clarity that the legislation will go through before the end of this Session?”
“Given the threat presented by ISIL, I think the whole House would support any effective action. However, before we left Iraq, we trained, equipped and supported the Iraqi army, yet it crumbled in the face of the threat from ISIL. Why is the Secretary of State convinced that this intervention will be effective and will not simply drag us further into front-line involvement in this war?”
“The main reason that the talks failed this week was Sinn Fein’s deluded belief that Northern Ireland should be totally exempt from the implications of UK budgetary policy and welfare reform. Will the Secretary of State confirm and put it on the record for those head-in-the-sand ostrich economists who advise Sinn Fein that if Northern Ireland wishes to deviate from the welfare reform package which is available in the rest of the United Kingdom, that money must be found from the Northern Ireland block grant and there is no additional money available?”
“Does the hon. Gentleman accept that not only have the Government pushed up the price of electricity because of this infatuation with wind turbines, but that that in itself has led to distribution costs going up because the grid has to be reinforced, and that the carbon tax that is now imposed on the fuel used by the cheapest types of power stations is adding to people’s bills as well? The whole policy is directed towards high energy prices, which have reduced people’s standard of living and have furthermore chased industry out of the United Kingdom.”
“Given the skills shortage highlighted this year, there is clearly a need for an organisation to enhance careers education in schools. What does the Secretary of State mean when she says that in the longer term she envisages this company sustaining itself? Does that mean a charge to the schools, to the employers or to both?”
“The Secretary of State has outlined the advantages of the devolution of those additional powers. Does he accept that giving more tax-raising powers, and hence reducing other income from central Government, exposes the Welsh Government to greater fluctuations in revenue and makes the long-term planning of services much more difficult?”
“Does the Secretary of State accept, though, that unless we have the correct formula for deciding what are national impacts and what are local impacts on the tax revenue raised, there is a great danger that Wales could suffer as a result of the fact that fluctuations in income over the economic cycle tend to be much greater in the regions of the United Kingdom than in the United Kingdom as a whole?”
“In light of the language about money given to the devolved Administrations being “handed down”, rather than the result of tax revenues, and, as the hon. Gentleman said, the redistributive nature of some fiscal policy, does he accept that the danger of the devolution of income tax is that it is an underhand attempt to ensure that less money goes to the devolved Administrations, who will then be forced to raise money through higher taxation in their own jurisdictions?”
“I am glad to learn that the hon. Gentleman has now joined the Unionists in his heart, but does he accept that once we start to disaggregate the fiscal arrangements for the United Kingdom, real constitutional issues become involved? The danger is that the more fiscal powers are devolved to regional administrations, the looser the Union will become. [Interruption.]”
“I welcome the additional resources that will come to the Northern Ireland Executive as a result of the Barnett consequentials of the additional spending, and the Chancellor’s commitment to devolve corporation tax to Northern Ireland, albeit on the basis that we show that we can manage the financial implications in our budget. Given that my party has defended fiscal responsibility, we have no fear of that. Will he confirm that the implication of what he has said is that the Northern Ireland Executive must make a decision on the implementation of welfare reform? Is that how he defines being “able to manage the financial implications” of the devolution of corporation tax?”
“The right hon. and learned Gentleman has spoken a lot about the rights of those who may be excluded as a result of this provision, but would he care to say something about people who feel under threat from those who have gone from this country, trained to be terrorists, committed acts of terrorism and are likely to come back here to commit acts of terrorism? What has he got to say to the people who feel threatened? What safeguards would he put in place for them?”
“Especially when wages are being squeezed in the economy, we ought to be worried about that. It will of course increase household debt, and if consumer spending is carrying economic growth, we should be worried. The Government have made much of wanting export-led growth. Again, the figures for this year show that exports are under pressure: they are not growing where they were growing in the past. There are therefore some warning signs. Another warning sign is inequality. As has been highlighted, even those in work do not feel any better off. Rather than Government Members saying that it is good to have people in work, they ought to be concerned that even the benefits of their policy are not felt universally, and they ought to accept that something needs to be done about that.”
“The Minister and other Government Members who have spoken should look at some of the statistics. I do not want to do the economy down. I have seen it happen in Northern Ireland, but people who do that simply talk themselves into a recession anyway, because if confidence goes down, businesses do not want to invest and consumers do not want to spend. Nevertheless, if there are warning signs, we ought to recognise them. Despite what the Opposition have said, growth over the past few years has been predicated on Government spending. When we look at the figures for the composition of GDP, we see that the biggest increase has been in Government consumption. That is now shifting to consumer consumption, but the figures again show that that is predicated on increased consumer borrowing.”
“May I welcome some of the news from the Minister today? The statistics show that there has indeed been an improvement in the economy. It is in the interests of none of our constituents to have an economy that is doing badly simply so that we can score political points. The fact that growth is higher than in the rest of the G7, unemployment has fallen, employment is up and productivity is up, which therefore helps competiveness, is good news and should be welcomed. I have no difficulty welcoming it. The point of the motion, however, is that that news is not sufficient for smugness or complacency; for a simple acceptance that the plan is working, and that therefore we do not need to do anything more or make any improvements; or for somehow or other rubbishing suggestions just because they come from Opposition Members.”
“If there are warning signs that growth may falter, here are ways in which we can put money into the hands of those who spend most of their income—that is, the low paid—and into capital investments that will have a return, which may, in turn, have an effect on economic growth. For that reason, I will support the motion this evening.”
“Government Members are presenting the motion as one that simply says, “Oh, let’s borrow more money regardless,” rather than one that says, “Let’s borrow money to use where it will actually help the infrastructure of the economy; where it will provide a return; where it will pay for itself over a period of time; where it will deal with a social problem; and where it will perhaps increase the mobility of labour because, of course, more housing enables that to happen across the country.” That, to me, is a sensible policy. For that reason, I am disappointed that the motion, or at least the ideas in the motion, has not been accepted.”
“However, as I have indicated, the Government are happy for some of the growth in GDP to be carried by household borrowing. Of course, businesses borrow for capital expenditure. Borrowing can provide a return and perform a social function. The motion highlights expenditure for a house building programme. That would have a big multiplier effect on the economy—a multiplier effect that would probably be greater than that of borrowing to pay for people to be on the dole. It therefore makes absolute sense.”
“That would not be a bad thing; indeed, it would be good for the Government finances, because it would of course release an awful lot of the spending on tax credits. In a growing economy, we can afford to do that. It is not only those of us on the Opposition Benches who espouse that policy: the Mayor of London has been an advocate of it. He has argued that it is a Tory policy, and that it should not be captured by the Opposition. We need to look at doing that. Not only would it release some of the Government spending on tax credits, but it has been shown that it tends to increase productivity and leads to a lower turnover of staff, saving expense for employers. The second issue is borrowing. I understand that we cannot simply borrow, borrow, borrow.”
“Of course, one of the other inequalities is inequality between the regions. The economy in Northern Ireland has done better in this recession than we expected—we are increasing inward investment through some of the Executive’s micro-economic policies—but there are regional inequalities, as well as inequalities between economic sectors and individuals. For that reason, we need to look at two issues in the motion. The first is that as the economy grows and the percentage of GDP that is attributed to profits rises, there is no reason why—through increasing the minimum wage or, indeed, through greater application of the living wage—we cannot start some degree of redistribution from those who hold capital to the work force.”
“The Home Secretary has mentioned the importance of contact with the devolved Administrations and police services in other parts of the UK. What contact has she had on these issues with the Justice Minister in Northern Ireland and the Police Service of Northern Ireland?”
“Does the Home Secretary accept that the comparison she is making is not a fair one, given that many of the extradition requests that were made to the Irish Republic were turned down often on political grounds? Of course, those grounds have now been removed because of the constitutional changes that have been made recently.”
“The continuing firefighters’ dispute in England is both damaging and avoidable. Will the Minister look at what has happened in Northern Ireland, where the Northern Ireland Executive have come to an agreement with the firefighters that is neither costly nor damaging? Will he adopt the same common-sense approach here as has been adopted in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales?”
“Regardless of whether the bill has been rebated, does the Chancellor not recognise that for many UK citizens facing cuts in public services, £850 million extra going to a body which has not had its accounts signed off for 19 years, wastes billions through fraud and spends money on vanity projects, is not good value and that they object to it?”
“Given that the Home Secretary wrote yesterday in The Sunday Times that the European arrest warrant and 34 other measures were in the package proposed by the Government, and given that she knew that the European arrest warrant was one of the most controversial of those measures, will she explain why she has included those issues in the regulations that we are discussing today but left out the European arrest warrant?”
“Rather than reducing the tension surrounding parades, the Parades Commission has actually contributed to further tension because of its bias against the Orange Order, its incompetence, and its propensity to give in to republican protesters. Does the Secretary of State agree that we now need a root-and-branch change in the way in which contentious parades are dealt with in Northern Ireland?”
“Does the shadow Minister agree that, given the increasing array of choices now available, one of the most important decisions anyone can make will be how comfortably can they live in retirement? The guidance and help the Government provide on making these difficult choices is very poor.”
“A point that the Financial Secretary skirted round when he announced the changes to annuities was that they can now go down, as well as up, as a result of this legislation. Does that not bear out the concern raised by the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon)? If such flexibility is provided for the providers, there is a real danger that people could be sold a pup and find that their income unexpectedly diminishes over time?”
“I know that the shadow spokesperson is not as cynical as I would be about some of this, but does she accept that HMRC’s own figures indicate that over the next budget period there will be a £4 billion windfall to the Treasury as a result of these changes? Of course, in the much longer term tax revenues will fall because there will be less income from the tax on annuities.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government have surrendered to the lobby from those who oppose smoking? They have put people out of jobs and yet their very objective will not be achieved, because all that will happen is that people will move over to an illegal market, with far more dangerous tobacco products and the financing of criminal gangs?”
“Does the Minister accept that while there may be a decline, the irony is that while the Government are encouraging the private sector to grow in Northern Ireland, in this instance Government policy has squeezed the private sector?”
“Does my hon. Friend not find it odd that the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) has raised the issue of accountability for the NCA when her party signed up to policing at a time when SOCA had no degree of accountability through the Policing Board? The SDLP had no objections then, but now that we are discussing SOCA’s replacement apparently the whole issue of accountability is important.”
“I thank the Minister for outlining in great detail the degree of accountability the NCA would have in Northern Ireland. Will he compare and contrast that with the scrutiny the NCA faces in other parts of the United Kingdom to illustrate just how far the Government have gone on this point?”
“In those last remarks, is the Minister not illustrating the point that was made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds)? This is not an issue for the people of Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland want the National Crime Agency. This is not even a matter for the parties generally in Northern Ireland. It is a matter for two specific parties. Why is the Minister not willing to name them and shame them?”
“I thank the shadow Minister for the way in which he has addressed the issue, especially to the SDLP. Does he agree, however, that most people will find it rather strange that the slavish adherence to the Patten principles goes beyond the protection of children from abuse—whether it be on the internet or from other predators on children—and that the SDLP counts the Patten principles as more important than the protection of children in Northern Ireland?”
“The fact that the NCA has to go along to the Policing Board, which comprises members of the SDLP, my party and all the other parties in Northern Ireland, as well as independents, means that there is every opportunity to make sure that the plan it is putting forward will be effective in Northern Ireland. The NCA will certainly not be effective if it cannot even operate in Northern Ireland. In the absence of full implementation of the Patten principles, whatever that means, that seems to be the alternative that the SDLP is suggesting,”
“If there is concern about the effectiveness of the NCA, let us remember that it must bring its plan for the year to the Policing Board; it cannot just say, “This is our plan.” The NCA can then be questioned about the implementation of the plan. Not only that, and just in case the National Crime Agency decides, “Well, Northern Ireland is only small beer and we are not too worried about it,” it is required to show how its plan marries up with the Policing Board’s plan for policing in Northern Ireland. So if the SDLP is concerned about how to ensure that the National Crime Agency will be relevant and effective in Northern Ireland, there is the accountability mechanism.”
“The SDLP claims that it wants to make sure that the Patten principles are adhered to, it wants to ensure that the accountability mechanisms are all in place, and it wants clarification that there is no clash in the code of ethics. Meanwhile the criminals, who do not give a stuff about Patten principles and all the rest of it, are walking off free. That is the importance of what we are debating here today. Let us look at what is being asked for. As has been pointed out, we want to make sure that the ineffectiveness of SOCA, which has been described, is not repeated in the National Crime Agency. Of course, there is already a mechanism for doing that. The Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee has pointed out that there is far more accountability in Northern Ireland than in the rest of the United Kingdom.”
“Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and the reasons why the SDLP has blocked the proposals. Many people in Northern Ireland and in the House will find it rather odd that, because of the inability of the NCA to operate fully in Northern Ireland, people who abuse children are getting away with it, people who are laundering money are getting away with it, people who are smuggling drugs are getting away with it, people who are engaged in the smuggling of fuel and so on are getting away with it and building up vast empires. People who are engaged in all these activities are able to keep their ill-gotten gains because of the absence of the NCA. What is the objection?”