Sammy Wilson
MP for East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Foreign Secretary has said that his concern is for the behaviour of some settlers on the west bank, and I think we all share that, but does he accept that the fear of losing votes to the Green party and the independent Members on the Bench behind me is also…”
“It is a sad state of affairs when ordinary people feel compelled to take direct action against illegal immigration into our country as a result of successive Governments failing to stop the invasion of our country by illegal immigrants, aided by criminal gangs.”
“The Chancellor has rightly identified trade frictions as a major impediment to economic growth. As a result of the Windsor framework, the internal market in the UK has been severely disrupted by EU-imposed restrictions on trade, which mean customs unions, mountains of paperwork and physical barriers. What steps does the right hon.”
“We would not need these regulations were it not for EU regulations having to apply to a certain part of the United Kingdom because it is regarded as part of the EU, regardless of the democratic vote of the British people to leave the EU. This is not about protecting biodiversity.”
“Because they are now subject to all these additional regulations. If they do not abide by those regulations—we have already seen this—those goods can be seized, destroyed, re-exported or detained by DAERA in Northern Ireland. That is not something which is just a maybe; it happens currently.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alec. The Minister outlined why these regulations were necessary and gave what, to most on the Committee, would be an acceptable argument: they are to protect biodiversity in Northern Ireland and to ensure that diseased plants are not accessing the Northern Ireland market.”
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“That may well be the case. However, if a Government have to make that decision—and, yes, there are occasions when that has to be done— they must first convince people that the economic case is sound, and on the basis of the Government’s own published information, that is not so. Indeed, even the Prime Minister did not seem to know what his own Government’s information said when he was answering Prime Minister’s questions earlier. It cannot be argued that there are times when the economic case is more important than the politics and so the right decision has been made, because the Government have not made a sound economic case. We have a political context in which the Government are saying to people: “Make sacrifices. If you’re working in the public services, take a pay freeze.”
“I am not sure what Government Members are saying is causing the lack of investment. Is it the situation in the eurozone—I agree with the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) about that—or is it because of the high rate of taxation? The hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) seems to agree with both propositions.”
“I agree with much of what the hon. Gentleman has said about the general level of APD, but does he not recognise that this measure is the result of the climate change legislation passed in a previous Parliament which his party supported? The chickens are coming home to roost, with extra green taxes being imposed on poor consumers across the United Kingdom.”
“The same situation applies for the money that could come from stamp duty and limits on the back claims. The fact is that this money could have been used in a better way. For example, the Government could have used it to lower fuel duty, but despite the fact that fuel prices are going up, the Government are going to take £800 million more off motorists in the United Kingdom this year.”
“That demonstrates a blatant disregard for the very difficult sacrifices that we are asking people to make. Let us consider how the money could have been spent. There has been much argument today about whether or not the rich will pay more. The one thing we do know, however, is that it has been calculated that that reduction in the top rate of tax will immediately release £3,010 million to the top 2% of wage earners. The Government are relying on tax exiles flooding into the United Kingdom and beating on the door of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to ask, “May I pay my tax in the United Kingdom now?” The Treasury hide behind the theory of “behavioural assumptions”, but we need only look at the literature to see that there are a lot of assumptions that may, or may not, be realised.”
“He must therefore know that his credibility in the international money markets is sufficiently high for him to be able to invest in projects that offer a rate of return and that could help to promote economic growth, rather than merely pay unemployment benefits. Either he does not believe his own rhetoric, or else he is deliberately—perhaps for ideological reasons—holding back on what I believe could be an important means of investment. Secondly, I am concerned about a choice that has been made. At a time when we are preaching austerity to people who are bleeding in that many of them cannot pay their heating bills or their rent or buy food, it is bizarre that the Government should choose to prioritise reducing the top rate of tax for the top 2% of earners in this country.”
“We have also pushed for Belfast to be chosen as one of the broadband cities. However, although there is clearly much to be welcomed, I am concerned about three aspects of the Budget. First, the Government could spend more money on infrastructure in the United Kingdom. That would enhance economic growth. Such pump-priming by the Government could enable us to draw upon some of the funds—£700 billion in cash—that private companies are currently hoarding. After all, does the Chancellor believe his own rhetoric? He says that both the deficit and debt have fallen as a percentage of GDP, that the public sector net debt peak will not be as high as previously anticipated, and that we are on course for deficit reduction.”
“From a Northern Ireland perspective, we welcome the devolution of air passenger duty, which will be included in the Finance Bill. That will enable the Northern Ireland Executive to set its own rate for long-haul direct flights from Northern Ireland, which is essential to our investment strategy and to tourism. We also welcome the reduction in corporation tax as it brings our rate closer to the rate in the Irish Republic, which is our main competitor for foreign direct investment—although those rates are still far apart. We welcome, too, the film and high-end TV tax concessions. We have been seeking to promote that industry in Northern Ireland. The Executive have pushed for that. “Game of Thrones” is now filmed in Northern Ireland, and it has been a big revenue earner.”
“We all recognise that the Chancellor has been confronted with a difficult task in this Budget. He has had to walk a tightrope: if he goes too far one way, our financial credibility is immediately questioned so interest rates have to rise, yet if he goes too far in the other direction, we impair our ability to earn our way out of the recession. My party does not have any political points to score against the Conservative party, as it is not represented in Northern Ireland, so we simply want the Chancellor and the Government to succeed. That is the basis on which I assess the Budget. Is this Budget likely to achieve the objectives we all want: restored growth and increasing employment? Some of the Budget’s measures are very welcome.”
“According to the Treasury, the direct impact—the direct static cost—is going to be £3,010 million. That is the figure that the Treasury has put out. Some of that money will be offset by behavioural change, but that is based on assumptions about tax income elasticity and what happens to income. So real money will go back to people who currently are top rate taxpayers. My argument is this: if the Government were going to release that kind of fund, would it not be far better to release it either to bring more low-income families out of tax or to release the hard-pressed motorist from the fuel duty that is going to be imposed on them?”
“For that reason, although I want the Government to succeed, I believe that they have not taken the opportunity to inject money into the economy. If they have credibility, they should use it in the financial markets and borrow to invest in infrastructure, rather than paying people to sit on the dole. If the Government want people to face up to the hard economic facts, they should do things fairly and not in a unjust and uneven way. If they want to be the Government for the United Kingdom, let us make sure that some parts of the United Kingdom do not have to bear a bigger burden than others.”
“Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) mentioned, that is one of the reasons why, despite the unpopularity that this has probably led to in Northern Ireland, I have made the case that if there is an economic crisis facing the United Kingdom, we cannot ask to be exempt from the burden to be borne. However, it makes it far, far more difficult to say to public sector workers that their wages are going to be frozen, to say to the ordinary citizen that they should tighten their belt and to say to people who live in Northern Ireland that they have to go through these hard times when the Government are saying to those who can most afford it, “We are asking you to loosen your belts. We are going to fill your pockets.” That is exactly where the unfairness in this Budget lies.”
“The impact of the measure will be very detrimental. I hope that we will have an opportunity to re-examine that in much more detail in this House, because I believe it is one of the most pernicious measures floated in this Budget. There are things that the Government could have done but have not done. There is an unfairness in this Budget; it is an unfairness in respect of not only different income groups, but different regions of the United Kingdom. I am a Unionist and I believe in the value of the Union. I believe that it is important that, as part of the Union, we bear the burden when there is a problem. As my right hon.”
“I do not quite understand the economics behind that, because freezing wages in the public sector will have a deflationary impact, especially outside the south-east of England, given the prominence of the public sector not only in Northern Ireland, but elsewhere. The areas of the United Kingdom that are currently falling behind, even given the slow rate of economic growth for the country as a whole, will be the parts that will be most punished. This is one of the most divisive measures that I have ever heard about and it does not even address a problem, because there is no evidence for it. We have 3 million people unemployed and we are not recruiting in the public sector, so how on earth are higher wages in the public sector going to prevent private sector employers from being able to find workers? This argument does not work.”
“The continuation of the measures that the Government have in the Budget already will take a further £800 million out of motorists’ pockets over the next year. The final point I wish to discuss is regional pay. Some people may regard what I am about to say as special pleading for Northern Ireland, but may I remind hon. Members that this will have an impact on those who represent constituencies outside London and the south-east of England? This measure will have an impact on all the rest of the United Kingdom. Some have the idea that, because there is currently a difference between private sector and public sector wages—it is important to make the point that the difference is current—wages should be frozen for people in the public sector, so as to stimulate the private sector.”
“Economic development in Northern Ireland is being held up by the reluctance of banks to lend to viable businesses and their withdrawing of capital from existing businesses. What discussions has the Minister had about whether banks in Northern Ireland are meeting their Merlin targets? Also, why is it that the Merlin target figures can be published for Scotland, but not for Northern Ireland?”
“The events of 2012 are the events of 2012: there is the centenary of the Titanic, the centenary of the Ulster covenant and the Queen’s diamond jubilee. So the motion, and its writer, did not dictate those dates, but does the hon. Lady agree that all those events, given that they will improve and provide opportunities to add to economic activity in Northern Ireland and can be enjoyed by all, should be seen not as single-identity events but as something that can unite all the people in Northern Ireland, who will be able to enjoy them and, indeed, benefit from them economically?”
“We are proud to live in Northern Ireland and proud that it has come through the dark days that have probably dominated most of our lives—certainly most of our political lives—and is moving on. The motion states that we are moving forward not because of what Unionists alone have done but because of what we have all done and the compromises we have all had to make. I believe that those decisions will ensure that the next 30 years are not blighted like the past 30 years. I was a bit saddened, then, by her negative approach.”
“This debate was not meant to be about boasting about the Unionist tradition in Northern Ireland; it was about promoting Northern Ireland, whose people have different backgrounds, national aspirations, outlooks and huge historical differences. Nevertheless, I believe that 2012 offers an opportunity to all people in Northern Ireland to gain from the economic benefits that will arise from the unique events and anniversaries this year. Those events and anniversaries will also help us to understand some of our own traditions, background and history. I was saddened, therefore, by the contribution from the hon. Member for South Down because this should have been a positive debate, and I hope that it will be seen as such.”
“He has the Scrabo tower, which was built a mere 150 years ago; I have Carrickfergus castle, the oldest Norman fort, I believe, in the whole United Kingdom. He talks about St Patrick wandering around his constituency; King Billy landed in mine. He talks about the Ards shopping centre; I have a cathedral of consumerism at the Abbey centre. For goodness sake! For his mere Comber spud, I can offer Glenarm salmon, which is famous the world over. I could go on, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I know you want me to move on. The debate is important, but I was a bit saddened by what I heard from the hon. Member for South Down. I like her, but her speech was not worthy of her.”
“May I first apologise for not being present for most of the debate? Unfortunately, I had a meeting to discuss the devolution of corporation tax to Northern Ireland, which is a very important issue. I gather that the debate has been fairly lively. The only two speeches I heard were from the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I did not know we had to parade the benefits of our constituencies in the debate. The shadow Secretary of State said that Strangford is the most beautiful constituency he has been to, but he said that before he had even been to my constituency, adding that he wanted to visit. I think I can trump everything my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford said about his constituency.”
“I would prefer to consider what all of us now have to do to promote Northern Ireland not only next year but in all the years ahead. And one area we have to offer and which has been identified as a growth industry is the tourism industry: it is labour intensive; we have a good natural resource that we can exploit to the benefit of tourism; and there is huge interest in past events in Northern Ireland. So we have the industry, the history and the architectural heritage, and we should exploit that.”
“This year is the 100th anniversary of some of these events, and we cannot dictate which ones we include and which we do not. They just happen to be there. We need to ensure, however, that we get the maximum benefit from them and that they are used in a way that is not divisive but unifying so that the whole community can benefit from the economic opportunity. The motion recognises, at the very end, that we want to see Northern Ireland moving forward, and moving forward together. We recognise the progress made and we do not see these events as exclusive. They are to be enjoyed by people in Northern Ireland. Most importantly, we want them enjoyed by people outside Northern Ireland. I will not go through, as I am sure other hon. Members have, all the benefits of my own constituency, although I mentioned some of them in the introduction.”
“All of it, yes. That includes the features in the hon. Lady’s constituency that people visit and into which money has been poured to develop some of that tourism infrastructure, and the celebrations of St Patrick and that whole tradition—some claim St Patrick for the Roman Catholic community, some claim it for the Protestant community. It really does not matter! If St Patrick is a marketable commodity, let us make him a marketable commodity and benefit from it. [Interruption.] Yes, and a neutral flag as well. It is disappointing that this is seen as divisive rather than unifying. There are huge opportunities for us in the celebration of the Titanic, of the Ulster covenant and of Her Majesty’s 60th anniversary. We have not been selective about these events. They are outside our control.”
“Those of us who live in Northern Ireland know that there have been changes; after 2012, because of the international interest, people further afield will know that there have been changes in that part of the United Kingdom too.”
“It is near the border, and I could not think of a cathedral in my constituency. Just as my right hon. Friend—the Member for Belfast North—purloined part of my constituency at the last review by the Boundary Commission, I have taken in some of the shopping in his. Indeed, those facilities are used mostly by people from East Antrim anyway, and would probably not be able to survive were they unable to go and shop there, so I suppose we share it to that extent—I knew it was probably a mistake to let him intervene. I know that others want to speak, so let me say in conclusion that I hope that 2012 will be a year in which we see a further turning of the corner in Northern Ireland.”
“Is the Chancellor aware that while fiscal policies are being used to create jobs, HMRC, through its hard-line attitude towards many small businesses with cash-flow problems, is driving people out of jobs and firms to the wall? What can he do to avoid the continuation of the situation in Northern Ireland, where 55% of bankruptcies in the past four years have been initiated by HMRC?”
“The last point I want to make is this. One of the big things that has affected people’s living standards is increasing energy bills. Indeed, it is a bit bizarre that we should be debating this motion after the previous one. We have been encouraging the Government to pursue and invest further in the most expensive form of energy available, namely wind power. Those high-cost energy sources have already added 20% to energy bills, and the previous Government’s predictions, as well as the current Government’s predictions, are that by 2020 they will add 43%, thus increasing costs and reducing living standards.”
“Those reforms are good, because they give people the incentive to work. However, there is no point introducing such reforms if there are no opportunities open for people, which is why economic growth and job creation are so important. The second thing that the Institute for Fiscal Studies identified as being associated with rising living standards over recent years is tax credits. The point has been expressed well this evening, so I will not dwell on it, but if tax credits are so important, I have to say that I find it very odd that, at a time when jobs are short and hours are being cut, the Government should think that it is a step forward to take tax credits away from people who cannot find extra hours in the week to work, even though they want to, or that this will help with current living standards.”
“If we consider the sources of the increase in living standards over the past years—the Institute for Fiscal Studies has looked at the past 40 years—we see that the biggest contribution has come from the increase in economic activity rates, particularly those increases resulting from bringing women into the workplace and work force. If we are going to increase economic activity rates, including among young people in Northern Ireland, 44% of whom are not economically active—there are various reasons for that, one of them being the huge rise in youth unemployment—there has to be economic growth to create jobs and attract people from inactivity into economic activity. There is an important message for Labour Members from that, because it will mean having to implement some of the welfare reforms that the Government are introducing.”
“There is a general acceptance in the House that if we are to increase living standards, it has to be done through economic growth. Apart, perhaps, from the Green party, which appears not to consider economic growth desirable, there is a recognition that it is the way forward, although there is considerable debate about how we do that. I say to the Government Front-Bench team that I cannot understand why our triple A rating will not be affected by huge borrowing to pay for the unemployed, but would be affected if we borrowed for projects that showed an economic return—for some reason financial markets would apparently take a dim view of that. When we consider how to get out of the current problem, we must think about growth, spending and borrowing in those terms.”
“Does the hon. Gentleman also accept that perhaps the Irish Government are keen for the rate to be reduced in Northern Ireland because it gives them some defence when it comes to their argument with Europe about whether their rate of corporation tax should be increased?”
“It is a pleasure to take part in the debate. As the leader of the Democratic Unionist party in Westminster, my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), said yesterday, all is not gloom and doom in the Northern Ireland economy; indeed, according to the Office for National Statistics, Northern Ireland is a happy place, and its people are the happiest in the whole United Kingdom. I do not know whether that is to do with the fact that my party is the biggest and therefore has control of the Executive.”
“She is happy because she has such a wonderful public representative. We should take those figures with some scepticism. If we use the same criteria, we find that the person who is typically happiest is a white male with five children who works only part time, and I am not so sure we want that as a recipe for the work force in Northern Ireland. However happy people in Northern Ireland might be, there is a need to rebalance the economy. I should, however, make one point to the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson). He talked about reducing the size of the public sector and increasing the size of the private sector. The truth of the matter is that any economy needs—”
“If we are to improve the well-being of people in Northern Ireland we must grow the economy, but the part that must grow fastest is the private sector, because a certain level of provision for health, education, roads and so on, will always be required.”
“I will not go back over the happy bit, because we have got that dispensed with, and I think we are all suitably happy. My first point is that when we talk about rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy, there is a misconception that that means contracting the public sector and filling the gap with the private sector. If that is all we did we would be no better off. We would still have a cake the same size, but it would be divided differently. At present in Northern Ireland the public sector is too large relative to the private sector; but that is not a function of the public sector being too big. It is a function of the private sector being too small.”
“That is correct. In the past three years when I have been Finance Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive we have cut spending on consultancy by 56%. That is a good result, as far as I am concerned, but of course many private sector consultancy firms do not see it as a good idea at all, because people have been laid off. That bears out the hon. Lady’s point. I am not complacent about the relative size of the public sector vis-à-vis the private sector, but we must avoid a simplistic view of how to go about things. It should not be a case of squeezing out the public sector and filling the gap with the private sector. We should grow the private sector and use what we can, and the resources of the public sector, to encourage that.”
“Let me just list some of them: the sale of allotments; the sale of the Speaker’s house—I do not think it is his personal house, but there is a house in the grounds of Stormont; the sale of an airport that we do not own; and money from developers who are not building anymore. I could go on. Not one of them stacked up. We get the easy answers.”
“It is not my place here to talk about them, or to talk about how adequately or inadequately they have been done. However, I have to respond to the hon. Member for South Down, who somehow thinks that the money allocated to Northern Ireland is not sufficient, not well spent and could be easily added to. She mentioned the fantastic document that her party produced on how we might raise revenue. I know that her first name is Margaret, but when I read the document I thought it was Margaret Thatcher reincarnated in Northern Ireland—the iron lady, though in the hon. Lady’s case it might be more like the tin foil lady. The document included a list of privatisations from which money could come.”
“The firm is changing from low value to high value concrete products. I could go on—there are many other examples of the desire of firms in Northern Ireland to grow. What I say to the Minister today, I say in that spirit. We do not come to this place pleading special cases for a basket case, or as fiscal Oliver Twists holding out our hands, always wanting more and not prepared to do anything to help ourselves. People in Northern Ireland, entrepreneurs in Northern Ireland, want to help themselves and want to grow the economy. However, certain matters, as was pointed out by the hon. Member for South Down, rest with the Government at Westminster and therefore need attention. Of course, there are matters on which the Northern Ireland Executive can act.”
“The news is not all bad, and despite the recession there are many firms that have looked for ways to keep their work force together. One of Northern Ireland’s big advantages is that by and large work forces tend to be very loyal, and employers recognise and try to reward that. For example, Creagh Concrete just outside Toomebridge lost 90% of its business in the Irish Republic and had to lay off half its work force. It started to look for new business and is now back practically to the same level of employment, despite being in the construction industry, by making prisons that are like Lego kits. In fact, when I visited, there was half a prison sitting out in the yard and the other half was being produced. It is then taken on site and put together with all of the facilities inside it.”
“That is a leading firm, internationally, in carbon fibre use in aircraft production, and it is growing; it is one of our biggest manufacturing employers. In my constituency there is F. G. Wilson, which sends generators around the world for Caterpillar, and is now back to its 2008 production levels, and Schrader Electronics, which provides a high proportion of the computerised valves for high-value motor cars, which tell drivers the car pressure. All the steel work for the Shard, which is being built down the road from here, is supplied by a firm in the back of beyond in County Fermanagh. It takes the steel in and ships it out, and because of the excellence of its manufacturing and engineering skills it can still compete for high-prestige jobs such as those that we can see from this building. I could go on.”
“I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has clarified that, because I noted down his remark about reducing the size of the public sector. If he was speaking relatively, we are both arguing on the same lines. My second point is that Northern Ireland still has a strong entrepreneurial spirit, despite all the years of trouble and how that put off private investment, and even drove out some of what was there. Indeed, the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) talked about the level of self-employment in Northern Ireland, which is higher than elsewhere in the United Kingdom. That strong entrepreneurial spirit is growing, and many firms have weathered the current recession. The Business Secretary has visited Northern Ireland to see the work of Bombardier.”
“No, I do not think I have adopted any of them. The only one that was adopted was then condemned; namely, that we could get some money from housing associations by cutting their grant and making them borrow more in the market. When that was adopted, the first party to condemn it was the party sitting to my left. Even when we adopt some of that party’s ideas, it suddenly decides that they are not good ideas.”
“If I had anticipated the length of that intervention, I might have listed some of the things that had been adopted. I cannot think of too many, other than the one that has now been condemned by the party that first suggested it. I have to say that it is actually working quite well. We are getting more houses built for less money in the public sector, and of course that is a good idea.”
“Nor would it produce, even in the medium term, the desired result of rebalancing the economy.”
“I do not take that stance. It is an unreasonable stance for people from Northern Ireland to take. We have lived with a £4 billion reduction in our budget in the next four years—a 40% reduction in the capital budget for expenditure in Northern Ireland in the four years. We have sought to ameliorate that by looking at what sources of revenue we could raise, what assets we could sell, how we could switch expenditure around, and where we could make savings. If, on top of that, as a result of the devolution of corporation tax, we were then hit with an additional burden—a burden that the Treasury estimates could be anything up to £500 million—that would not be either fair or sustainable. Given that the price would be paid immediately and the benefits would only be experienced in the medium term, that price would not be affordable.”
“However, we are well aware that where we have responsibility, that responsibility should be taken. However, certain matters reside here at Westminster, and they are important if we are to rebalance the economy in Northern Ireland. The first matter is the debate on devolution of corporation tax and tax-varying powers in relation to corporation tax. I would be cautious about that. It is not that I would be opposed to it, but if it is devolved it must be devolved at a price that does not put further pressure on an already pressurised public sector budget in Northern Ireland. We have lived with the cuts. I am not one of those who believes that because of Northern Ireland’s special circumstances we ought to be exempt from all of the financial difficulties that have to be faced by the rest of the people in the United Kingdom.”
“More recently, we have been told that if motor tax were devolved to Northern Ireland, we would be able to avoid all the changes that we do not want to introduce in welfare reform. From the devolution of motor tax we could find—according to the SDLP’s erroneous figure—£600 million. I would not like to be a motorist in Northern Ireland if we had to raise £600 million extra from a motor tax. There are many issues I do not run away from. The Executive and the Assembly in Northern Ireland cannot run away from their responsibility for the things that they have to do to try to help to rebalance the economy. Some things are done well, some things are not being done so well, and some things still have not even been started. Those are internal matters, and the Minister may make reference to them later on.”
“No, I will not give way. This debate is not about the internecine warfare that goes on in the Northern Ireland Assembly, much as I enjoy it. I am sure that hon. Members do not want a rehash of the kind of budget debates we have in that other place. I will make one point, however, because there has been a call for more devolution of tax-varying powers in Northern Ireland. There seems to be a contradiction. On the one hand, the idea is that if we had tax-varying powers we could use them to spend more money on public sector projects. On the other hand, when we get those tax-varying powers it is not to put taxes up, but to bring taxes down. I do not know how we bring taxes down and spend more money as a result, but that is the equation put forward by the hon. Member for South Down, which I think is part of her party’s policy.”