Sammy Wilson
MP for East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Foreign Secretary has said that his concern is for the behaviour of some settlers on the west bank, and I think we all share that, but does he accept that the fear of losing votes to the Green party and the independent Members on the Bench behind me is also…”
“It is a sad state of affairs when ordinary people feel compelled to take direct action against illegal immigration into our country as a result of successive Governments failing to stop the invasion of our country by illegal immigrants, aided by criminal gangs.”
“The Chancellor has rightly identified trade frictions as a major impediment to economic growth. As a result of the Windsor framework, the internal market in the UK has been severely disrupted by EU-imposed restrictions on trade, which mean customs unions, mountains of paperwork and physical barriers. What steps does the right hon.”
“We would not need these regulations were it not for EU regulations having to apply to a certain part of the United Kingdom because it is regarded as part of the EU, regardless of the democratic vote of the British people to leave the EU. This is not about protecting biodiversity.”
“Because they are now subject to all these additional regulations. If they do not abide by those regulations—we have already seen this—those goods can be seized, destroyed, re-exported or detained by DAERA in Northern Ireland. That is not something which is just a maybe; it happens currently.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alec. The Minister outlined why these regulations were necessary and gave what, to most on the Committee, would be an acceptable argument: they are to protect biodiversity in Northern Ireland and to ensure that diseased plants are not accessing the Northern Ireland market.”
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“Does the Minister agree that, given the problem of youth unemployment and many other economic problems in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein’s call for a referendum seems most inappropriate, and is nothing but a cynical exercise in republican breast-beating? In light of the Government’s new-found enthusiasm for referendums, should there by some chance be a referendum, will he give an assurance that the Government will be firmly on the side of keeping Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom?”
“As a former teacher and an A-level chief examiner, I recognise many of the criticisms that the Minister has made of the exam system and I would be broadly supportive of the views she has expressed. Given that there is a big movement of students between Northern Ireland and England and between England and Northern Ireland, and given that Northern Ireland has its own exam board, what arrangements has she put in place for the consultation involving the universities to include schools and educational decision makers in Northern Ireland?”
“By and large, many of the reforms that have been proposed would have my support and that of my party. The Minister talks about consultation, but given that there are exam boards in those parts of the United Kingdom where education has been devolved and where students will be applying to universities in England, for example, and given the need, therefore, for comparability of results in the different countries that make up the United Kingdom, what consultation has he had—or does he plan to have—with Ministers responsible for education and exam boards in parts of the United Kingdom other than England?”
“I acknowledge some of the positive impacts that this statement will have on Northern Ireland, including saving people from increases in their electricity bills as a result of the exemption from the carbon price floor, lifting 8,000 people out of tax, and an additional £135 million of capital spending. However, given the rocky road that the Chancellor has said lies ahead and given his credibility in the markets, could he not find his way to borrowing more money for infrastructure projects to create jobs, rather than paying to keep people on the dole?”
“For the same price as reducing the top rate of income tax for the top 1%, we could reduce VAT on extensions on premises to provide jobs in small businesses in the building industry. There is much greater price elasticity in demand for that activity, as has been shown, so such a measure could provide a much greater stimulus. The policy is wrong economically; it is wrong politically; and it is wrong on the basis on which the Government have tried to sell it. For that reason, I support the motion.”
“We cannot send out a contradictory message that that is okay for people at the lower end of the income spectrum, but not for people at the higher end. If the Government really want to sell their message of austerity, that message must be clear so that people know that everyone will be equally affected. If a pensioner faces a £7 weekly decrease in their pension and a millionaire gains a £2,000 increase in their weekly income, people will not take the view that we are all in this together. The politics of the measure is important. The Government might believe that low taxes can stimulate the economy because they will attract the rich to the UK, where they will create jobs, but it has been proven that other tax cuts costing an equal amount would provide a far greater stimulus to the economy.”
“Whatever the assumptions about behavioural consequences—whether people will move back to the United Kingdom or stop moving out; whether they will stop avoiding tax or keep using existing measures—given the cost of moving back or changing pension or retirement arrangements, it is unlikely that the impact will be as great as suggested. Even if the measure were correct—the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) said that he was glad that the Government had divorced politics from economics in making that tax decision—we should not introduce it at a time when we are telling people across the United Kingdom that they have to tighten their belt, spend less and accept that they will have a lower income. We are saying that to pensioners, to lower-paid people and to people on middle incomes.”
“The logic of the measure is accepted by Sinn Fein, which supports it, although some of its members are probably to the left of Labour Members. However, I oppose the measure that the Government introduced to reduce the top rate of income tax for the best paid. I do not believe that the cost will be as low as the Government said. The Minister said that it will cost £100 million, but that figure is surrounded with lots of conditions and caveats, such as notions about how tax changes are sensitive to how people behave. As the Office for Budget Responsibility has pointed out, estimates of tax income elasticity vary from 0.35% to 0.48%, which is a difference of nearly 40%.”
“I approach the debate from a different angle from some Opposition Members. I am sympathetic to the view that we ought to aim for a low-tax economy, which offers benefits. Only this week in Northern Ireland, we announced tax cuts for small businesses. Measures that we announced six months ago have had an impact in creating jobs. Fifty-two new businesses have started, and over 100 jobs have been created in return for a modest reduction in tax revenue. We are also seeking the devolution of corporation tax, so that we can introduce a lower corporation tax rate. As I have pointed out to Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, all of that means that there are certain things that we cannot do. We have to find efficiencies in public spending, and there are things on which we cannot spend money.”
“Despite that and all the other changes, some people would love to wallow and say, “Things are just as bad as what they ever were.” I do not want this debate to give credence to such a view of life: that is not where Northern Ireland is today. We have already referred to the events that have happened this year and the events we are looking forward to next year. Even in Londonderry, with its republican and nationalist majority on the council, they are going to celebrate the UK city of culture next year. That is how Northern Ireland has changed. We may even have the Deputy First Minister going to the Brit awards—”
“The family have acted with dignity, and the community and security forces have been responsive, which is important. For Northern Ireland to succeed, and for us to move in the direction we want—to a normal and prosperous society that gives hope to young people who are looking for jobs, and families who want to bring up their children in a stable environment—we cannot allow the cancer of terrorism once again to push Northern Ireland into the headlines for all the wrong reasons. This year, we have had more tourists than ever, and we have succeeded even in the middle of a recession in attracting more foreign direct investment to our economy than any other region bar the south-east of England.”
“I suppose there was a certain nervousness about this debate. It has been a measured debate, but as many hon. Members have said, we do not wish to paint a picture of Northern Ireland as being back in the 1970s and 1980s. Considerable progress has been made. I was glad that, when my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) introduced the debate, he gave a balanced picture of a Northern Ireland that has moved on considerably. The Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State, and all hon. Members who have spoken, have echoed that. The one thing that would give great consolation to those who murdered Prison Officer Black would be that their vile act is used to try to destabilise Northern Ireland further—economically, politically and in all other ways. That has not happened.”
“People talk of their support for the police, but if the police start to deal with some of the colleagues of those who were involved in terrorism, that support suddenly becomes qualified. It is disgraceful—”
“I have not heard that phrase for a while. As hon. Members have pointed out, despite those changes it is important that we do not get complacent and that we recognise that dangers still lurk that affect people’s daily lives in Northern Ireland. We have to deal with those dangers, and I accept that we as the public representatives in Northern Ireland have a responsibility to deal with them ourselves. I am glad that we are moving away from the days when we went and asked everyone else to help us with our problems and relied on them to sort out our problems for us. We have a devolved Administration, which includes parties across the board, although it is a difficult arrangement to make work, especially when dealing with people as financially irresponsible as Sinn Fein and, marginally behind them, the SDLP.”
“This is not an issue of holding out our hands and looking for more money; this is about what we can do for ourselves first of all. However, if the situation deteriorates—I hope that it does not, and that there is never a need to call on the House and the Government for more resources for policing in Northern Ireland; I, and the citizens of Northern Ireland, want to see policing return to normality—then that is one thing that could be done. I appreciate the response—the support and recognition—from all parts of the House to the situation in Northern Ireland. For our part, we raised this issue because it is important to the people who live in Northern Ireland for it to be highlighted. We have done so in a measured way; not in an alarmist way, but in a way that, as public representatives in Northern Ireland, we have a duty to do.”
“Republicans would far rather do something on the UK mainland than in Northern Ireland—that would be much more newsworthy. They get the base, they get the wherewithal, they get the ability and they get the mechanisms for doing it, and we can be sure that this is where the targets will be. If the Chief Constable makes the assessment that additional resources are needed, I hope there will be a positive response. That is not to say that we in the Northern Ireland Executive must not do anything. Indeed, we have provided for greater flexibility in the security budget than for any other budget. In any other Department, where money is not, or cannot, be spent in the way it was voted on, it has to be returned to the centre and looked at again. The security budget has been ring-fenced so that the Chief Constable has much greater flexibility.”
“They asked for the money to be guaranteed for a four-year period, so that planning could take place to make best use of the resources. I pay tribute to the Government and the Treasury for accepting that argument, and that is why the Chief Constable has been able to plan ahead. Additional resources may be required in the future. If so, it will be to deal with a national security situation, and not just to have more community policemen on the ground in Northern Ireland. I understand why Members on both sides of the House, when they see cuts in their police service, ask why Northern Ireland is treated differently from other parts of the United Kingdom when it comes to constraints on police budgets. But this issue does not apply only to Northern Ireland. If the situation gets out of hand, it will have national security implications.”
“I know that the Police Federation has talked about 1,000 extra police officers. I do not know whether we need 1,000 extra police officers or not, but I do know that if we are to target terrorists—including intensive surveillance on them—it will require additional resources. I give credit to the Government because when policing and justice were devolved, we were given additional resources for policing of £50 million on a yearly basis, depending on the assessment of the security situation. The Chief Constable and the Northern Ireland Executive made the case that they had to plan ahead and could not be left to wonder whether they would get the £50 million every year—whether the security situation would be assessed as okay or as having deteriorated.”
“I know that they are hampered in doing so, and I remember my time in the police force and some of the unrealistic demands that were made, especially by some of the SDLP representatives—Sinn Fein was not on the Police Board then. People almost had to be Sunday school teachers to become informants for the police because there were so many restrictions. If people were involved in this, that or the other, they could not be recruited as intelligence sources. We would have been left with people who would not have had any idea about what was going on in the criminal underworld of terrorism if we had stuck by those restrictions. The important question is what changes we need to make to get the intelligence required to ensure that those who want to engage in such criminal behaviour are quickly identified. There is also a resource aspect to this.”
“The Executive are seeking to do that and to direct resources towards the young and unemployed, and people who have lost their jobs. We are looking at innovative ways to try to give that economic hope to people. There is a need for security policies that will be effective, and responsibility for those may, at some stage, lie with the Government here in Westminster. If we are going to deal with terrorism, we must have intelligence. There are various ways of gathering intelligence—electronic surveillance and so on—but human intelligence sources are also important. The security services are responsible for gathering that intelligence in Northern Ireland.”
“It is important that we in Northern Ireland take responsibility not only for seeking to try to heal the divisions of the past, but for giving support to those who have to deal with the reality of the lingering terrorism that we still experience. I do not buy the idea—to which the shadow Secretary of State referred—that people get involved in terrorism because they are economically deprived. We do an injustice to people who have lived their lives in difficult economic conditions and never become involved in crime if we make that excuse. We have a responsibility to provide hope in our society, so that people can have a stake in it, feel that there is something better for them and that it is a place where they want to belong.”
“In any democratic society, there is always the opportunity for people to engage in peaceful protest, if that is what the hon. Lady means. There is a huge difference between those who say that members of the public can engage in peaceful protest and those who say that it is political policing for the police to go through due process to arrest people for serious crimes—including murder. I notice that the SDLP Members have been quiet on this point. It is one thing for someone on Dungannon council in the back of beyond to call for the release of someone who was guilty of trying to murder a council colleague: it is another to stand up in the House of Commons and defend that. I note that SDLP Members have not tried to do that, because there is a bit more public scrutiny here.”
“My right hon. Friend has extensively described much of the support that is available to soldiers who have left the Army, but does he agree that, in the light of the Prime Minister, the Attorney-General and the Ministry of Defence yesterday turning their back on Danny Nightingale, the SAS soldier who has been imprisoned, many people will call into question just how much support soldiers get when they really are in trouble?”
“Either you make changes in the budget, or I cannot carry it in the House of Commons, because I am facing united support for the stance I am taking.””
“I must say that I share some of the cynicism about what happened in the past, but this is not about what happened in the past; it is about what we are going to do now. I am sure that if the former leader of my party were here, he would tell the House that there is great joy in heaven over one sinner that cometh to repentance, and that there should be unbounded delight on the other side when a whole party-load of sinners may have come to repentance and renounced their fiscal sins of the past. Regardless of the motives behind it, the amendment does not weaken but strengthens the Prime Minister’s position. It enables him to go to Europe and say, “The entire House of Commons supports my position, and I have to go back to the House and explain.”
“I have had to resist Ministers who stood out in the streets protesting against cuts to the education budget, the health budget and other budgets, and explain that we were at an end of making money available for all the things we had to do. I think the people would find it difficult if, when it came to the over-fed bureaucracy of Europe, we did not take the same stance. As for the arrogance of the bureaucrats in the European Union—sometimes described as the Bisto bureaucrats who think that the gravy train is still running—we need to put down a marker and say that the years of simply asking for money and getting it are at an end. Many Members have said today that this is only a cynical exercise, that it will hurt the Prime Minister, that Labour Members are jumping on the bandwagon and that they are a bunch of hypocrites.”
“It is a great joy to follow the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin). In this debate, I believe the people of Northern Ireland would expect me to lay down the marker that if we as citizens of the United Kingdom have to share in the necessary austerity measures required to get us out of our current financial problems, we should expect the same rigours to be placed on the European Union. I have the honour of serving as Finance Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive. Over the last couple of years, I have had to defend and explain and implement a 40% cut in the capital budget of the Northern Ireland Executive.”
“I have no difficulty with the veto. I do not have to be ambivalent about the veto. Whatever is required in these vital negotiations—whatever leverage is required—must be used. The point I am making is that the best leverage that the Prime Minister can exert in the negotiations is his ability to say, “Regardless of their positions on the party-political spectrum in the House of Commons, all its Members support me in saying that we will not give an extra penny to the European Union, and, furthermore, we want to see a reduction in the amount of money that we give to the European Union.””
“I will go through that Lobby for the sake of the people who want to see an end to European and bureaucratic waste. For those reasons, I shall support the amendment.”
“For 17 years, the European Union’s accounts could not even be signed off because billions could not be accounted for. The amount of waste that takes place in the EU shows that it is not impossible to make reductions. I do not know whether I shall be on the right or the wrong side of the vote tonight, in terms of who wins, but I do know that the Lobby that I go through will be the Lobby entered by Members who are standing up for people who have experienced austerity, and experienced it stoically because they believe that it is the right way to ensure the financial soundness of the United Kingdom. I will go through that Lobby because I am on the side of those who want to give the Prime Minister the best hand in the negotiations.”
“The hon. Gentleman is wrong. As so much of our rebate is not covered in the new arrangements owing to increases for new member states, our contributions would go up by 5.3% over the seven years even if we opted for and secured a real-terms freeze in the budget. We are talking not about pennies, but about billions of pounds. The bottom line that is suggested in the motion would actually prove very costly for the British taxpayer, which is why a motion proposing not a real-terms freeze but a real reduction in our contributions to the EU could, and in my view should, gain unanimous support in the House. That is the only way of ensuring that the austerity that people in the United Kingdom have had to experience is also experienced in the European Union. It is not that there are no ways in which money can be saved.”
“One of the options open to the devolved Administrations was for their pension schemes to be included in the Bill. In Northern Ireland, the Executive decided not to take that option, which could mean that, simply because of the timing of the legislation, the new scheme will be in place here, but not in Northern Ireland, even if Northern Ireland decides to follow suit. Will there be a penalty if there is a time gap between the implementation of the legislation in the rest of the United Kingdom and any delayed implementation in Northern Ireland?”
“Will today’s announcement have any budgetary implications for devolved Administrations through the Barnett formula? What practical measures has the Secretary of State put in the procurement provisions to ensure that her aspiration of jobs for British industry and the UK supply chain is realised by this investment?”
“It is quite right that if laws are being scrutinised and made, that should be done by elected representatives. If they are elected for 15 years on a party list system, however, is that really a way of holding any parliamentary body to account?”
“Despite the fact that over the past six years more than £2 billion has been lost in revenue as a result of criminal activities through fuel laundering, HMRC has taken only 28 cases to court, and there has been only one custodial sentence, which was suspended. Does the Secretary of State believe that that is an adequate response from HMRC or the court system in Northern Ireland?”
“I think we all know that the pursuit of renewable electricity has added considerably to energy bills in the United Kingdom and put us at a competitive disadvantage. Whatever we call it, clean energy, green energy or wind power costs three and a half times more than coal or gas-fired power. If the Government are going to keep going down that route, they will suck growth back out of the economy in the pursuit of helping the renewables industry. There are many areas where we need to get oxygen back into the system, including banking, cheap energy, finance and infrastructure development, and I trust that we will see that in future.”
“Although a very ambitious target, which many firms are trying to meet, of exporting to areas outside the euro area has been set, many firms are finding opportunities but cannot get the money to finance their organisations and provide them with working capital. I hope that when the bank reforms go through, there will be greater emphasis on what impact Government policy is having on places such as Northern Ireland, where we do not even get figures published for Project Merlin and do not know whether the policies are working through the banking system in Northern Ireland. Thirdly, there is the issue of energy prices. The Queen’s Speech says that the Government will deliver “secure, clean and affordable electricity”. That is a euphemism for expensive electricity.”
“That £10 billion could have had a much greater impact had it been spent on infrastructure development here in the United Kingdom to boost people’s confidence that the Government believe that we will have growth eventually and need the infrastructure to deliver it. The second issue is bank reform. In Northern Ireland especially, businesses are held back by the lack of finance from a dysfunctional banking system. The banking system in England, Scotland and Wales may be dysfunctional, but in Northern Ireland most of the main banks are not operating and we are dependent on bankrupt banks from the Irish Republic, which account for nearly half the market, and Ulster bank, which is controlled by RBS. Bank lending is not happening for businesses.”
“The Government have been led astray by those who say that they are driving the tractor to pull us out of the mire rather than driving the digger to dig us deeper into the mire, as appears to be the case. I am concerned about three main issues. First, it will be interesting to see what proposals the Government bring forward on stability within the euro area. Much has been said here today about the need to stimulate the economy. We have heard many Government Members say that we cannot keep on borrowing and spending, yet there seems to be no lack of that when it comes to propping up a failed currency, for which the Government keep finding money. Within the past three weeks, another £10 billion went to the International Monetary Fund to help to prop up a currency that looks increasingly shaky. That is throwing good money after bad.”
“I was heartened when the very first words of the Queen’s Speech talked about “economic growth” and the need to “restore economic stability”. However, as many people have said during this debate and others, once we get down to the detail, the reality is that there is no clear path as to how these proposals will get us back to economic growth. Indeed, there are many diversions—a result, I suppose, of the faddishness that has been introduced into Government decisions by the Liberal Democrats. The proposals on House of Lords reform are equalled only by some of the other proposals that the public have already rejected. At a time when millions of families were most concerned about student fees, the Liberal Democrats thought that a referendum on the alternative vote method should be the Government’s priority.”
“It is a great joy to take part in this debate. Back home in Northern Ireland, there has been a lot of criticism of the fact that Northern Ireland was not specifically mentioned in the Queen’s Speech. Newspapers, commentators and politicians have suggested that that is a vast gap in the Queen’s Speech that needs to be filled. I do not share that view, for two reasons. First, I do not believe that more and more legislation piled on to an economy is necessarily a good thing. Secondly, many of the problems that we face in Northern Ireland are UK-wide problems that require UK-wide solutions, and therefore much of what the Queen’s Speech does in dealing with the economy of the UK as a whole should benefit Northern Ireland.”
“Banking reform is important for the United Kingdom as a whole but especially important for Northern Ireland. We have a dysfunctional banking system, because so many banks have been caught up with bad property loans and so on. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me and people in Northern Ireland that the Government need to focus more on how measures to ease banking will affect banks in Northern Ireland and ensure that we get our fair share of credit easing and so on?”
“Much has been made of the effect of the top rate of tax on revenue and on competitiveness. Given that the Government have stated their intention to change the top rate of tax, is it not surprising that the Chancellor has said that he is going to initiate “some real research into dynamic scoring, and what the broader economy effects are of changes to taxation”? It seems that even the Government do not know the impact of the change in taxation.”
“Let me make it clear that my party is not a party of high taxation. We do not wish to see people squeezed until the pips squeak and we are not ideologically committed to high taxation.”
“I want to address the reduction in the top level of tax from 50% to 45%, which I believe is a huge political mistake for the Government. More importantly, I believe that it will impact on the ability to deliver sound fiscal policy and economic policy across the United Kingdom while getting people behind the measures that are required to get us out of our dire present situation. The Government’s main argument has been that this is a good, sound economic policy and that it is necessary for a number of reasons. It is necessary, first, because the 50p rate of taxation has not worked: it has not raised the intended revenue. Indeed, the Prime Minister today claimed that it had not raised any revenue, but if he had read the documents that his own Chancellor endorsed he would have found that that is not true.”
“The hon. Gentleman asks whether I am sure. The record is open to scrutiny. In local government in Northern Ireland, when the Democratic Unionist party is in control of any council its rates are the lowest. In the Northern Ireland Administration at Stormont, where again we have control of the finances, we have more generous tax allowances for manufacturing industry and we have held local taxation frozen at the same point for the past four years and for the next three years. The hon. Gentleman asks from a sedentary position whether we are sure, but we stand on our record. When we have the ability to influence or the possibility of influencing taxation, we want to be a party of low taxation. My comments in this debate are predicated on such policy and should be set against that background.”
“I do agree, but if the hon. Gentleman had been listening he would have heard that the economic case—that we did not raise as much revenue as we should, that we will raise more revenue than we were doing and that we will improve the competitiveness of the UK economy through this new measure—has not been made. [ Interruption. ] The hon. Gentleman laughs, but on the basis of the Government’s own publication, the economic case has not been made.”
“People stop me in the street all the time and talk about the impact that it is having on their lives. They say, “We don’t like it, but if we have to put up with it because we know we can’t carry on spending money we don’t have, we’ll do it.” Nothing undermines the argument made by those of us who wish to be responsible about the budget deficit more than the news that the Government are saying to people, “Make sacrifices”, while those who are earning more than they need to live on will get a 20% or a 10% tax cut. That is why the politics of this is all wrong. The economics is not sound and the politics is not sound, and for that reason we will vote against it.”
“I have another role in Northern Ireland as Finance Minister. We have frozen wages. We have stopped all bonuses in the public sector where that has been possible and there are no contracts. We have said to people that there will be no recruitment or promotion within the public sector. We have said to people who work in the private sector, “You’re going to have it tougher because we’re going to be spending less on public sector contracts and so on, with the impact that that has on people’s jobs.” We have said about new house building and a whole range of other things, “This can’t be done.” We have said to voluntary groups and community groups, “You’re going to get cuts in your grants because we don’t have the money to do this.” By and large, I have found that most people accept that when they see that it is evenly spread.”
“If you’re a motorist, you’re going to have to pay more for your petrol. If you’re a pensioner, you must have your tax allowances frozen for some time so that allowances can catch up, with the result that you’re collectively going to lose £1 billion a year. You’re going to have to do this because we’ve got a deficit that we’ve got to address.” I could go through a whole lot of other measures. If people are going to be asked to follow a policy that is designed to reduce the deficit and to accept those impacts on their standard of living, they must understand that the weakest are not being selected for the heaviest burden. This decision is not only economically flawed but politically flawed because it will call into question the Government’s sincerity when they argue that we all have to make sacrifices together.”