Bill Esterson
MP for Sefton Central · Labour · United Kingdom
“As the Prime Minister said on Tuesday, our energy supply and our energy security are not a question of having either oil and gas, or renewables; they are about both. It is a great pity that proper process was not followed in 2022 or 2023. [ Interruption.”
“I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to continuing Britain’s global leadership on climate action, including by going to COP31. I also welcome his focus on breathing space for people and businesses, but, as he said, it will take a lot more than that to deliver the growth and reindustrialisation that he is so committed to.”
“Last week the Committee heard from Claire Dykta, the director of strategy and policy at NESO, who told us: “Operational decisions are taken by authorised, trained personnel only.” Her comments were confirmed by Alastair Martin, the chief strategy officer at Flexitricity, who, in the same session, said: “I do not think the idea that the he…”
“As the Minister has just said, new nuclear is essential for energy security. It is also essential as an alternative career for workers in oil and gas.”
“Paul and Susan Robinson each worked for the Health and Safety Executive for more than 40 years. They have not been able to plan for their retirement since finishing work last year; they have been living off their savings and the small loan that they have had. They are typical of the dozens of constituents who have contacted me.”
“Hudson primary school in my constituency does a brilliant job. It is a family hub, it specialises in support for children with SEND and autism, and it has a nursery, but its building, which is 80 years old, suffers from a high water table that brings damp, mould and structural problems for the building—as does occasional flooding.”
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“The measures on the warm home discount and the energy company obligations speak for themselves in how the Bill is set out. He has told us about the high energy needs of people who are terminally ill, and clearly any help that can be given should be given. That brings me briefly to clause 3. The TUC’s Dying to Work campaign highlighted, as the Minister rightly said, that employers who do not act in the best interest of their workers need to be brought to account. I am grateful for his acknowledgement that the remedy of a tribunal is not an appropriate or practical way of addressing these problems. I am pleased that he said the objective should be for workers with a terminal diagnosis to be able to continue as long as possible, and that we will have that in Hansard , because it will form the basis of the discussions he mentioned.”
“I add my thanks to Marie Curie and the TUC for the work they have done and the way they have informed this debate and for the evidence they have presented to my hon. Friend and the Minister. As my hon. Friend and the Minister said, the fact that 90,000 people die in poverty each year and that people of working age are dying, the effect that has on children and families and the challenges presented to people who are terminally ill mean that this issue must have our attention. I hope the Minister can convene other Ministers in the way that he said in short order and put in place some of the measures that he suggested can be done relatively quickly. In my hon. Friend’s Bill, he has proposed a series of pragmatic financial measures.”
“I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) on bringing forward an important and heartfelt piece of legislation. I hope, as the Minister said, that he is successful more quickly this time than he was with his private Member’s Bill on smoking in cars with children present, which he introduced some years ago. I remember it well, because I sat on the Children and Families Bill Committee and moved one of the amendments in his name, as he was not on the Committee. I spoke on it again on Report, and I was with him on the Delegated Legislation Committee where the legislation was implemented in the Smoke-free (Private Vehicles) Regulations 2015. I hope he is successful far more quickly, and I think the spirit of what the Minister said suggests that my hon. Friend can make enormous progress quickly.”
“People in coastal communities have seen for themselves the increasing sewage on beaches during 12 years of Conservative Government. Business owners have faced the consequences, with tourists less likely to visit. Will the Minister admit that cutting the Environment Agency budget was a mistake, and perhaps apologise to Environment Agency staff for those cuts and for making it harder for them to do their jobs? While she is apologising, will she also apologise to coastal communities for the damage done and tell us what the plan is to stop sewage discharges on our beaches?”
“We can see what the former Chancellor meant when he used the phrase “vicious cycle of stagnation”.”
“Sadly, it seems that those promises, as we have seen with so many other Conservative promises, are simply not worth the manifesto they were written on.”
“I would like to start by giving apologies on behalf of the shadow Secretary of State, who is unable to be here today for personal reasons. The motion in my name and in the names of my right hon. and hon. Friends should be self-evident. We want to see the great British industries that have shaped our nation last long into the future, securing our transition to net zero while bringing the jobs and skills so desperately needed in many of our communities. Those skills need to be skills of the future. That is why Labour is committed to 100,000 extra apprenticeships each year and flexibility in the use of the apprenticeship levy to support the training of existing workers. This Government claim that they want to level up the country, but can they deliver well-paid jobs in the areas of the country that they claim to care about?”
“That is why the Bank of England has described UK-specific factors as behind the high interest rates that threaten homeowners and businesses with higher borrowing costs. The Conservatives have presided over 12 years of low growth, low investment and low productivity. Business investment under this Government is the lowest in the G7. We are the only G7 country where the economy is contracting, and the only one where the economy has not recovered to pre-pandemic levels. The Conservatives crashed the economy and they do not have a plan for recovery. Meanwhile, according to the latest Office for National Statistics business survey, a fifth of businesses say that uncertainty about demand and business prospects is holding back their investment plans.”
“I will give way shortly. Today, many of our industries, including steel, car manufacturing and shipbuilding, are facing an existential threat from spiralling energy costs, cheap imports and inflation. To make matters worse, they are also facing an indifferent Conservative Government. While other nations have had the foresight to retain a competitive advantage and invest in future technologies, here in Britain the Conservatives are happy to watch decades of expertise and reputation go abroad, along with the high-quality jobs that underpin our industrial communities. Before the Minister blames international challenges, let us just remind Conservative MPs that this country is uniquely exposed to global economic problems.”
“My right hon. Friend is right to speak on behalf of the steel industry, which faces an existential crisis and may well depend on a Labour Government coming to the rescue.”
“I completely agree with my hon. Friend. She is confused because we have had so many Conservative Prime Ministers in the last few weeks that it is hard to keep up. Like her, I want to see Northern Powerhouse Rail linking my constituency on the west coast with her constituency on the east coast, providing economic benefits all the way along the route.”
“As he has not replied to my letter, perhaps the Minister winding up this debate will tell us what action the Government are taking to support this core industry.”
“While Governments around the world have been committed to their domestic industries, with long-term strategic investment in green steel production, the Conservatives have failed to invest in the transition, have attempted to weaken safeguards that protected our steelmakers from being undercut by cheap steel imports and have splashed tens of millions of pounds on imported steel to build British schools and hospitals. Labour will make different choices. We will put UK steel at the heart of our wider industrial policy, building British wind turbines and railways, and investing in carbon capture and storage, and hydrogen infrastructure. I wrote to the Secretary of State two weeks ago about the concerns of the steel industry in this country.”
“Labour’s plan will bring businesses, workers and trade unions together to safeguard the future of an industry that is the pride of communities across the country. I am talking, of course, about steel. What we need is not crunch crisis talks and random nationalisations but investment in our great industries, with a real plan to secure our steelmaking future through a partnership to invest in the technology that our steelmakers need to export green steel around the world. But for 12 years the Conservatives have failed to back Britain’s steel industry. The Government have let the industry decline, with jobs offshored and communities damaged.”
“Labour knows the value and understands the crucial role of our industrial base in delivering economic growth, which is why we have outlined our industrial strategy to give businesses certainty that they can invest alongside Government to safeguard our world-class industries. Economic strength needs partnership between Government and market, and between business and worker. Our new industrial strategy has partnership at its core, because partnership is how we ensure strong, secure growth and a fairer, greener future. Our plans for a national wealth fund to invest in our great industries will play a crucial role, alongside businesses and trade unions, in delivering the certainty that investors and workers need.”
“Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman does not understand that 12 years of low growth, low investment and low productivity mean that places like Stoke-on-Trent have been hit very badly by this Conservative Government. Where has 12 years of Conservative Government left British industry, not least in places such as Stoke-on-Trent? Manufacturing has seen the worst output over three months since the 1980s. Anyone who genuinely wants to turn around the UK’s poor economic performance cannot discount the role of industry in our economic growth. It is not a question of being either a service-led or a manufacturing-led economy. Successful economies are a combination, and successful industries are a combination, too. Good manufacturing depends on the services that support production.”
“The hon. Lady should perhaps take more care about how the Chinese are threatening to pull the plug on steel production in her constituency right now.”
“Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should be asking the Minister that question rather than me. [Interruption.] He has told me he is going to ask the Minister in a minute, and I look forward to the answer. Our view is that we have to respond to the fact that the EU is already doing this and we are clearly going to have to take action to safeguard the steel industry in this country. So I would be very interested in what the Minister says and whether it is consistent with what I have said.”
“I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend, who has led the steel MPs on this side of the Chamber, and has often led cross-party as well, in fighting the cause of steel communities. As he says, a core foundation industry is crucial to jobs and prosperity; to our national defence and security, with its role in procurement in defence; and to decarbonisation for climate security. It is right that we should be supporting our steel industry and our other core industries.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that, and I suspect that even if Ministers will not admit it publicly, they would say so privately too. I mentioned that I wrote to the Secretary of State two weeks ago. I am disappointed that I have not had an answer sooner, given the scale of the challenge and the emergency facing so many parts of the steel industry.”
“The revolving door of Ministers, the seemingly endless soap opera, the unedifying sight of Conservative MPs eating bugs in the jungle mask a much deeper problem. The Conservatives are unable to offer British industry the bedrock on which it needs to grow. They do not have an industrial strategy that can last the term of a Minister let alone the turn of the century. Whether that is ideological opposition—the mistaken belief that Government should get out of the way—or pure incompetence, it is clear that the Conservatives are failing British industry.”
“As part of our plans for a national wealth fund, Labour will part-finance the creation of three new additional gigafactories by 2025, with a target of eight by 2030. Turning to shipbuilding, a successful strategy means making and buying more ships here in Britain, such as the Fleet Solid Support Ships, rather than seeing lucrative defence contracts built abroad. It is, of course, a very important way of supporting our steel industry. Investing in sovereign defence capability is a matter of national security as well as being good for jobs, 6,000 of which are at the UK’s high quality shipyards from the Fleet Solid Support Ship contract alone. A hallmark of each iteration of this Conservative Government has been to act in the heat of the moment and lurch from crisis to crisis.”
“That is why the Government should be working with BMW at Cowley to give it assurances that they support electric car production in the UK. They should be working with the car industry to support the transition to electric vehicles, not sitting on the sidelines while our great automotive sector falls behind our European competitors. While we have one gigafactory in operation, Germany has five, with a further four in construction. France and Italy are set to have twice as many jobs in battery manufacturing as us by 2030. The precarious future of Britishvolt is incredibly worrying for the local economy, risking up to 8,000 jobs, but it also further jeopardises our gigafactory capacity as a country.”
“I would have hoped that, as a Conservative MP, the hon. Lady would have been talking to her own colleagues. I hope that her ministerial colleague will have heard what she said, and that she will join me in calling on him to respond to the requests of the steel industry. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) can sit there and heckle all day—he does quite a lot of that—but the honest truth is that we do need cross-party working to deliver for steelworkers. I am happy to support the call of the hon. Lady, as I am the calls of my colleagues who have spoken in this debate. On the automotive sector, it must make sense for the Government to support workers at one of the most productive car plants in Europe.”
“The Government really should have done their own due diligence before investing. If the German, Italian or French Governments have made those investments because they have a strategic interest in their car industries, it must make sense for us to do the same here.”
“We will support nuclear, tidal and hydrogen, because they are all part of a low-carbon future, but not least because Labour will be an active Government, willing to champion British industry and help to create the jobs and prosperity of the future. Our plans for renewable electricity generation will mean cheaper bills for industry and households. They are being drawn up with business, informed by the evidence presented to us by employers and trade unions alike. Partnership, planning, investment and certainty: those are the elements industry needs to succeed. They are the foundations of the framework that industry will be able to rely on alongside a Labour Government.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking the question, because it reminds us all that the Conservative Government have cut the number of ships from 13 to eight—so I would be careful about claiming that as a great big success story—and they still have not made a decision on the Fleet Solid Support Ships. With Labour, Britain can become a global leader in producing electric cars and in self-sufficiency in renewable electricity generation. Meanwhile, the Conservatives continue to drag their feet and retain the moratorium on onshore wind. When the Prime Minister was asked about onshore wind, he answered by talking about offshore wind. It is almost as if he did not understand the difference. Onshore wind is one of the cheapest forms of energy, and we will double its capacity. We will treble solar and quadruple offshore wind production.”
“The Conservatives have failed over the past 12 years. Their answer is to offer the slowest growth in the OECD over the next two years after crashing the economy. It does not have to be this way. Britain’s best years really can lie ahead. Britain really can be the best place to start and grow a business. The British Government really can be the partner to industry, ensuring that we make, buy and sell more in Britain. With our industrial strategy and our green prosperity plan, Labour will ensure that, together with business and the workforce, we really can deliver prosperity through partnership.”
“The way the Conservative Government reached the deal was not good value for money, and we certainly should not do that again, but nuclear is a key part of our transition to renewable electricity. When I visit companies developing new technologies, they are excited by the prospects and the ideas they are developing. Whether on decarbonising air travel, installing insulation in millions of homes, as our energy efficiency plans will do, or our world-class defence companies delivering economic prosperity while keeping us safe, all the businesses I meet want to work with Government. They want a Government who offer stability and are a willing partner, who will lead the world in renewable technology, who will herald the vanguard of new electric vehicles and will supply the world with cutting-edge green steel.”
“T3. We have 8,000 fewer PCSOs, 6,000 fewer neighbourhood police officers, and people can see for themselves that there are fewer uniformed officers on our streets. No doubt the Home Secretary will deny yet again that the Government have cut police. In the vain hope that the public might be reassured by something that this Government say, I will ask again: will she commit to matching Labour’s plan to recruit 13,000 more neighbourhood police officers? No more smoke and mirrors: yes or no?”
“That is what an industrial strategy does. It is what Government can contribute to as a partner, where business would otherwise struggle to attract investment. It is also how to transform our economy, our country and our communities.”
“The jobs in insulating 19 million homes will, by definition, be created in every community, especially in those with the poorest housing stock, which are those with the greatest need of good jobs as well as warmer homes. We can transform our prospects at home and through the export potential of new technologies. But the bank has to be on a sound footing, alongside a strategy and with objectives that are consistent with the way the bank is set up. We support the creation of the bank. It is a great way for us to implement our plans in government. It is a great way to give businesses and investors certainty. It is a great way of offering prosperity to communities through the creation of new jobs. But the bank has to be allowed to be ambitious, to push for new opportunities and to set the market, not just follow it.”
“We will be pursuing amendments in Committee to enshrine a commitment to local jobs in the bank’s remit, and we will push for worker representation on the board. That is the recommendation of E3G, which says that a diverse representation includes workers. Partnership in a successful economic and industrial strategy depends on worker representation. We will follow the evidence in our approach. Our amendments in Committee will push this Government to do so, too. Labour’s approach to infrastructure and industrial strategy is through partnership. We recognise that success will follow when Government work with business and with workers. Investing in infrastructure in a low-carbon future can deliver across the country, not least because of how the exciting opportunities are geographically spread. It can deliver prosperity in every community.”
“Will the bank give investors the confidence they need to develop the benefits for our domestic economy and for export markets, too? So far, the bank has faced criticism for following the market rather than setting new strategic priorities for big infrastructure projects. Will the bank really support local and regional economic growth? After 12 years of failure, people can be forgiven for being somewhat sceptical. An industrial strategy is a partnership between Government, employers and workers. In government, we enshrined partnership working in the Olympic Delivery Authority to ensure good local jobs, and to ensure that those jobs were central to the construction of Olympic facilities. We set up the Automotive Council with employers and trade unions to protect local jobs.”
“It is worrying that, just last week, the Prime Minister answered a question about onshore wind by talking about offshore wind. I wonder whether he understands the difference. His refusal to end the moratorium on onshore wind is telling, and it certainly is not an indication that this Government intend to make a bold, ambitious commitment to benefiting from the opportunities of a low-carbon economy. A good test of whether this Government really are committed to infrastructure investment is whether the new bank will deliver the decarbonisation we need and whether it will enable this country not just to survive but to thrive, by making the most of the massive economic opportunities available from the energy transition. We have exciting technologies in wind, solar, tidal, carbon capture and storage, nuclear and hydrogen.”
“Friend the Member for Ealing North (James Murray) and all examples of where the UK Infrastructure Bank could do so much better to ensure a greater chance of success with the right strategic mandate. What should be the approach of the UK Infrastructure Bank? Labour’s industrial strategy will deliver prosperity through partnership: the Government working with business and trade unions to create thriving businesses, prosperous workers and successful communities that benefit from investment in the whole country and from a strategy that supports the everyday economy as well as those in advanced manufacturing. The question for this Government is whether their approach to the UK Infrastructure Bank matches the scale of our ambition.”
“Our plan will invest in the technologies and industries of the future, from EV charging points, supporting a burgeoning electric car industry, to clean steel and developing shorter, more resilient supply chains. Our plan will create jobs, cut bills and deliver energy security, and it will transform our prospects after 12 years of economic failure by this Government. The UK Infrastructure Bank has to take a long-term view in the national interest. So what is the Government’s record? The sale of the green investment bank to private equity, yesterday’s distressing news about Britishvolt and the failure of the green homes grant scheme—all mentioned by my hon.”
“The economic failure by the Conservatives has left the UK ill-prepared for the current energy crisis, pushing up bills and risking energy shortages. A strategic approach to infrastructure is essential, and it is Labour’s industrial strategy that follows the evidence from across the economy. Unlike the Conservatives, our plan follows evidence from around the world. At the heart of our plan is Labour’s green energy plan. We will invest in the energy sources of the future. Our plan will deliver self-sufficiency in renewable energy by doubling onshore wind, trebling solar and quadrupling offshore wind, all supported by the creation of a publicly owned “Great British Energy” company. Our plan will create half a million jobs in renewable energy and a further half a million jobs in insulating 19 million homes over 10 years.”
“Indeed, these 12 years of failure on infrastructure are central to the Conservative Government’s failures of low growth, low productivity and low investment. Those 12 years of failure were also the prelude to the disastrous mini-Budget of 23 September. The Bank of England was forced to step in four times to support financial stability and rescue pensions, and there was criticism of the UK Government by the International Monetary Fund. Interest rates went through the roof, there was huge volatility in the pound and inflation is higher than in comparable countries. So, yes, the Conservatives crashed the economy. The result is higher mortgage payments for households, higher borrowing costs for businesses, chaos from the Government, crisis for ordinary people and crisis for the economy.”
“Labour supports the creation of the UK Infrastructure Bank, and we support the Bill’s placing the bank on a statutory footing. In Committee, we will want to see changes to ensure that the bank focuses on strategically important areas, not least energy efficiency, nature-based solutions and job creation. We will also want to see changes to the governance of the bank, for example ensuring that there is a workers’ representative on the board of the bank. This Government have a terrible record on infrastructure over the last 12 years, whether it is their cancellation of Northern Powerhouse Rail or their dismal failure to invest in renewable energy or take decisions on new nuclear. Their lack of strategy and planning was also shown when they closed the UK’s gas storage facility.”
“Labour is committed to maximising the vast opportunities that exist in developing the UK’s onshore and offshore wind industries. In sharp contrast, the Conservative Government’s 12 years of low growth, low investment and low productivity saw the UK’s largest wind tower factory at Campbeltown close. Labour will increase onshore wind capacity. We will deliver jobs, lower bills and energy security, and we will set up a publicly owned Great British energy company. Is the truth not that Labour’s industrial strategy is the credible way forward for UK energy production?”
“Does the Minister not understand that the public believe the Government, by extending the Avanti franchise, are taking them for fools? Does he not realise that the only way out of this for him and his ministerial colleagues, and the only way to end the public’s anger towards their Government, is to remove the Avanti franchise and do it now?”
“Labour in government will make that investment in renewable energy and ban fracking for good.”
“The only sensible way forward is to invest in wind and solar to deliver renewable electricity self-sufficiency, as the Opposition would do by 2030; to invest in insulating 19 million homes; to invest in new nuclear, in tidal, in hydrogen and in carbon capture and storage; and to create a publicly owned Great British energy company that we can be proud of and that will deliver in the national interest. Labour’s energy plan would lead to a million jobs, lower bills and energy security. Labour’s long-term plan will create a world-leading renewable energy industry that enables us to export our technology around the world. Our plan is the right way to address the energy challenge. Fracking, whether in Formby or anywhere else in Britain, is completely the wrong way. My constituents are right to oppose fracking.”
“Thirdly, on the climate, producing more fossil fuels will just make the climate crisis worse. Have we not seen enough evidence of the acceleration of the climate crisis, with storms, floods and extreme heat in this country, let alone around the world? We need to do everything we can to end our reliance on greenhouse gas-producing fuel. Introducing fracking will add carbon emissions to our atmosphere. Fracking is climate action delay, and to delay is to deny the reality that we face a climate disaster and all its consequences unless we act with all speed.”
“I can tell the Government that people in Sefton and in west Lancashire will not support fracking, and if the Government think they can manipulate fake consent, people simply will not be fooled. As for the environmental impact, the Environment Agency says that contamination of groundwater has not been addressed by fracking companies. Natural England says that fracking applicants have not produced evidence that their plans would have no significant effect on wildlife. I turn to the Government’s claims. First, on the gas price, fracking will not help because the price is set on the European market. Secondly, on the immediate challenge of supply, fracking will take time to produce gas even if the Government choose to ignore local people. It will not deliver in the short term.”
“Lancashire County Council’s ecology adviser described Aurora’s assessment of earthquake risk at the Altcar Moss fracking site as “superficial, outdated and not justified”. My constituents in nearby Formby agree with the ecology adviser. Their houses shook when tests were carried out. My constituents have been saying for years that the Conservative plan is a charter for earthquakes, because that has been their experience, as it has been elsewhere nearby in Lancashire. Conservative MPs stood on a manifesto that said: “We will not support fracking unless the science shows categorically” that it is safe. Changing the safety threshold does not change the level of risk, and changing the safety threshold when the science has not changed will not convince my constituents or people across the country.”
“Moving away from that, which would weaken supply chains and make it harder for small firms in this country to win contracts from our own Government, sounds to me like the opposite of improving resilience and supporting the economy around the country. I share my hon. Friend’s concern that the consequence of subsections (2) and (3) would be to weaken potential support for UK businesses and the jobs of the people who work in them. For those reasons, I agree with him that we should support amendment 19 and remove those subsections from the Bill.”
“I fear that that risks making it harder, not easier, for domestic companies to benefit from Government spending. My hon. Friend was also right to mention the carbon footprint aspect. It cannot make sense for us to move away from the idea that, where it is sensible, domestic firms should win contracts from public bodies and, in building a more resilient, local supply chain and delivering British jobs, should have the best possible advantage. I will add one thing to my hon. Friend’s excellent point about the carbon footprint: in the light of the international situation—we all know that we face serious times because of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine—building greater domestic resilience in our supply chains must be a fundamental part of public policy.”
“That is an incredibly important part of what any Government should offer if they want success, and it is at the heart of the Labour party’s offer in our industrial strategy and in our plans to make, buy and sell more in Britain. I hope that the Government’s approach to the legislation has not undermined support for small firms. As my hon. Friend set out, if that has not been considered because the Bill has been rushed, some countries—the example of the Republic of Ireland is a good one, but the same applies to other European Union countries—may see an opportunity to win contracts in the United Kingdom at the expense of UK firms, in particular smaller ones, purely by dint of the fact that they have gained a competitive advantage through very poorly drafted legislation.”