Bill Esterson
MP for Sefton Central · Labour · United Kingdom
“As the Prime Minister said on Tuesday, our energy supply and our energy security are not a question of having either oil and gas, or renewables; they are about both. It is a great pity that proper process was not followed in 2022 or 2023. [ Interruption.”
“I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to continuing Britain’s global leadership on climate action, including by going to COP31. I also welcome his focus on breathing space for people and businesses, but, as he said, it will take a lot more than that to deliver the growth and reindustrialisation that he is so committed to.”
“Last week the Committee heard from Claire Dykta, the director of strategy and policy at NESO, who told us: “Operational decisions are taken by authorised, trained personnel only.” Her comments were confirmed by Alastair Martin, the chief strategy officer at Flexitricity, who, in the same session, said: “I do not think the idea that the he…”
“As the Minister has just said, new nuclear is essential for energy security. It is also essential as an alternative career for workers in oil and gas.”
“Paul and Susan Robinson each worked for the Health and Safety Executive for more than 40 years. They have not been able to plan for their retirement since finishing work last year; they have been living off their savings and the small loan that they have had. They are typical of the dozens of constituents who have contacted me.”
“Hudson primary school in my constituency does a brilliant job. It is a family hub, it specialises in support for children with SEND and autism, and it has a nursery, but its building, which is 80 years old, suffers from a high water table that brings damp, mould and structural problems for the building—as does occasional flooding.”
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“We will end up with an economy that relies on low-skill, low-wage employment and see a continued fall in living standards. Let us remember that since 2010, people in work are on average worse off by £2,000 a year. There is a very long way to go to make up that shortfall. I want to talk about one particular skill that historically we have really struggled with: management. I want to talk about the role of managers and leaders in motivating and getting the best out of staff and organisations, whether in the public or private sectors, and the role that that has to play in raising productivity. Some 85% of people in a professional occupation have a higher education qualification, but only 44% of people in management roles have a higher education qualification.”
“In the analysis by Government Members, I see little evidence of skills development for workers in predominantly low-paid jobs. In my constituency, a third of people in work now are paid less than a living wage. That is not a recipe for high living standards or an improvement in their day-to-day lives. We need an increase in productivity. That will help to lead to higher paid jobs, and that comes from skills and from the kind of investment I have talked about. We heard from another colleague that the scale of the problem with productivity in this country is that output per hour is 17% below the G7 average and 31% below that of the United States. Unless that picks up, the sorts of problems I have mentioned with the very high number of low-paid jobs will continue.”
“I take it from the hon. Gentleman’s intervention that he will support, with every fibre of his being, the yes campaign in the EU referendum to avoid the damage that would be done if this country left the EU. I welcome his conversion to the cause. Government Members have talked about the jobs that were created under the coalition over the past five years. Let us be clear that those jobs were created by private businesses, not by the Government. I think that the Government have shown a worrying complacency, given that we have had the weakest recovery since the war and that productivity has been so low over the past seven years, decreasing by 0.5%. It has been pointed out that that productivity has gradually started to inch up, which is welcome.”
“Thirty-one per cent. of businesses surveyed by Ernst and Young have said that they will either freeze or cut investment until the result of the EU referendum is known. Does the Chancellor accept that that uncertainty will cripple our economy until this is sorted out once and for all? Does he accept that that is a reason for bringing forward the date of the referendum as fast as possible?”
“The Education and Adoption Bill will presumably mention adoption, but will it contain provision for improving the quality of fostering, residential children’s homes and kinship care, which in the past the Minister has agreed are incredibly important opportunities for children? This is about finding the right way forward for children, not necessarily adoption for all.”
“Foetal alcohol spectrum disorder affects at least 7,000 children born every year in this country. A new all-party group on foetal alcohol spectrum disorder will hold its inaugural meeting on 30 June, and I encourage Members to attend. The chief medical officer is carrying out a review of the advice given to pregnant women on how much alcohol, if any, can be taken during pregnancy. Has the Leader of the House had any indication from colleagues in the Department of Health on when a statement will be made to the House on the chief medical officer’s updated advice?”
“T3. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that leaving the EU will damage our economy, undermine business and have devastating consequences for the living standards of people in this country? Will he remind his own party of those facts?”
“In the previous Parliament, the ministerial code was clear that Ministers should come to the House first, but it was largely ignored. Early signs are that the same thing is happening in this Session. Can the Leader of the House tell us when the code will be published in this Parliament, whether it will be enforced properly and whether Ministers will come to this House and not go to the press first?”
“Having listened to the Minister’s answers, it seems to me that patients have every right to be worried about whether care is safe in the NHS. Does he not realise that, unless the Government reverse the cuts in social care, the problems in patient care will not be resolved anywhere in the NHS—not just in the areas covered by the so-called success regimes?”
“The Chancellor has talked about his priorities. May I ask him about his priorities for the £12 billion of unfunded spending cuts? Will he confirm today what the Prime Minister refused to confirm yesterday? Will he be cutting benefits for people with disabilities—yes or no?”
“The Secretary of State has spoken of the importance of people’s ability to secure hospital appointments. The same applies to GP services, but when I wrote to him about my constituents’ difficulties in securing appointments with their GPs, he told me that that was the responsibility of NHS England, not his Department. Will he now recognise that he must take responsibility for dealing with the problems of GP surgeries, so that my constituents, and those of every other Member, can make appointments with their family doctors when they need them?”
“Four years ago, the Prime Minister told Sepp Blatter that he had taken the game of football to new heights. I welcome the change of heart in the approach being taken, but will the Secretary of State listen to those Members who have called for the Government to be behind the efforts that are being proposed?”
“I was at a school in my constituency on Monday where the students told me of the difficulties they had studying engineering and other STEM subjects. The school said the problem was it could not recruit the teachers. There has been a shortfall in the number of teachers recruited to STEM subjects in the last few years as well. Does the Minister agree that this is a fundamental problem and that the action taken by the Government on teacher training has not addressed it at all?”
“The new enterprise allowance is great for those who have a business plan and know what they are doing, but the danger, I am afraid, is that it is pushing people into debt. That is what I have seen, sadly, for too many people who have gone down that route, having seen no other option because of the way the Department for Work and Pensions’ benefits system operates. We need a change of approach. We need to see a better plan—a plan for the many, not the few; a plan that raises living standards, looks after pensioners, makes sure that businesses of all sizes can thrive, and ensures a decent society for us all. That is why we need a Labour Government to be elected on 7 May.”
“Let us end the exploitation of zero-hours contracts, encourage living wage employers and have a proper rise in the minimum wage, because 20p just does not make up for the years when there was no increase. Where was the announcement in the Budget about the exploitation of those in the care sector, such as the two women who looked after my mum in her final weeks and months? They did 25 hours in a weekend and were paid for only 10 hours. Like so many people up and down this country, they are completely undervalued, exploited and ripped off, yet we rely on them to look after the most vulnerable in our society. What of those out of work? Self-employment is one of the options that the Government promote.”
“We will see further cuts in services, which all has an impact, along with the VAT rise, on businesses and their ability to grow and create the good-quality jobs we need. The Chancellor really has failed the people of this country over the last five years. Our constituents can do so much better than this Tory, top-down approach—the top-down reorganisation of the NHS and the failure of trickle-down economics, which helps a few at the top while the rest see their living standards fall. That has been the reality. What we need is a change of Government, because that Government will deliver success for working people. As we know, Britain succeeds when working people succeed, so let us help the majority of people in this country to succeed.”
“We have a Chancellor who did not mention what is in store for those in education. The 10% cut to education is not a sign of a long-term plan; I am afraid it is a sign of further failure from the Government, if they get in again. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has told us that the holes in the Tory plans, even with the revisions today, can only be covered by further deep cuts to public spending, not least in the NHS, or by the usual Tory remedy, a rise in VAT. “Colossal cuts” in services is a phrase that the IFS has used, and the effect on the economy, certainly in my part of the world, will be to remove further spending power, as well as having an impact on living standards.”
“All we can conclude is that the Conservatives and their Liberal friends just want as small a state as possible, and that is what they have got in store for the people of this country if they win again. We have had a failure from this Government over five years and we do not need more failure over the next five as well. What does business need? Many of my constituents either run or work in small businesses. They need a level playing field, proper skills and decent quality apprenticeships for the under-25s, not the over-26s who have benefited from what has happened under this Government. Young people need a proper choice between vocational and academic study and preparation for the wider world. We need a return to work experience and proper careers guidance in schools, something that has been removed by this Government.”
“He has not had a pay increase for years, and he struggles to afford his mortgage, the energy bills, transport, and all the other things that he and his family need. A lack of job security, as well as low pay, leaves many people feeling squeezed, and the position is the same all over the country. Pensioners are feeling it too, with high energy prices. Added to that, we have a crisis in the NHS—people cannot get a GP appointment and there are huge delays at A and E—all on top of, and partly caused by, cuts to social care. Yet there is nothing in this Budget about the cuts to social care or the cuts to councils, nothing about what the future might look like for local government and nothing about our NHS.”
“They claim that the crisis became international on 1 May 2010, when, miraculously, it suddenly changed from what they describe as Labour’s crisis under the last Government to a euro crisis under this one. That is nonsense as well. We have been given a fantasy Budget by a fantasy Chancellor. I am afraid that what is happening in my constituency is typical of what is happening all over the country: low pay, zero-hours contracts and part-time work. A third of my constituents who are in work are paid less than a living wage, and people have lost an average of £1,600 a year. There has been a recovery for a few at the top, with tax cuts for millionaires, but no sign of recovery for the majority. Just the other day, one of my constituents told me that he was struggling to make ends meet.”
“It is always interesting to enter the fantasy world of the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke). He spoke of financial security and flexible work contracts, but, as we heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), the problem is a weakness in both employment and pay. That is one of the reasons why the deficit has not been paid off. The so-called long-term plan has been a failed plan. The Government promised to eradicate the deficit in one term, but they have failed to do so, and one of the reasons for that failure is the nature of the employment that the hon. Gentleman has just described. A number of Conservative Members are following the Conservative campaign headquarters script very closely.”
“When the Education Committee carried out a year-long inquiry into child protection, we found that more needed to be done to support professionals in responding effectively and consistently to the early signs of neglect. Neglect causes long-term damage to thousands of young people every year. Therefore, should not prevention of neglect be as much of a priority as finding the perpetrators and supporting the victims, which the Secretary of State has talked about, and should that not include support for professionals, as recommended by the Committee and accepted by the Government two years ago in their response to our report?”
“Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) has made the case for why that is so important, and I hope that the Minister will respond in that vein.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and thank everybody who has lobbied me in support. As a pet owner, I am delighted to be here supporting the e-petition today. I visited Battersea Dogs and Cats home recently, and the staff impressed on me just how important this issue is. Similarly, when I visit Freshfields animal rescue centre in my constituency, the staff there make the same point. We heard from the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) about the importance to humans of pets, but I think many people misunderstand how strong the emotional ties are and just how much bereavement people go through. I take this opportunity to impress on the Minister that the debate is probably more about the emotional well-being of people, and their attachment to their pets, than anything else. My hon.”
“The Minister says that he wants more young people to be taking maths and science subjects, but does he acknowledge that there is a chronic shortage of teachers applying for STEM subjects? Why has that happened, and what action are the Government taking to reverse this serious problem for young people and for the wider economy?”
“My hon. Friend makes the point about the importance of using the procurement system and Government money to drive improvement in apprenticeships. Does he agree that we need do that all the way through the supply chain so that smaller businesses, and not just larger ones, can and do take on apprentices?”
“I agree that it is a real challenge, given the current situation, to enable more SMEs, particularly the smallest businesses, to take on apprentices. Does the Secretary of State agree that countries such as Germany have cracked this problem over many years, and that there are things we can apply from Germany and elsewhere to achieve the goal of getting more small businesses to take on apprentices?”
“Businesses have told me in my constituency, as well as in evidence given to our Committee, about the difficulties that that causes in preventing young people from being exposed to the fantastic opportunity that is presented by apprenticeships. We must increase the number of apprentices. We need to make it far easier for businesses to take them on. We also need to make apprenticeships far more attractive to young people, and to ensure that vocational qualifications and learning in this country are regarded as being of the highest standard and value. That is why the motion is so important. I hope that it is passed, so that both our young people and the country as a whole can benefit.”
“Whether deliberately or not, we distinguish between the two, and that absolutely has to change. As I said in an intervention, it is simply not an issue in Germany, where the vocational and academic paths run alongside each other. As is implied in the motion, the technical baccalaureate is important in enhancing the status of technical education and qualifications, as well as addressing the shortage of skills in the STEM subjects. Concern was expressed to the Education Committee about the damage caused by the reduction in the number of professional careers advisers, and the removal of work experience as an option for many young people.”
“Michelin now employs a number of young, high-quality apprentices, who are doing fantastic work and developing the skills that the company needs. As we have heard, that is a familiar story. The construction industry in the north-west needs 1,500 new bricklayers and 1,500 new roofers each year. Where are those skilled jobs to come from unless we get the apprenticeship agenda right? I hear from schools in my constituency that fewer pupils are studying vocational subjects such as design and technology. Of course we need to encourage young people to go to university, but all too often we value academic learning and qualifications at the expense of vocational learning and qualifications. The culture needs to change, but I fear that we are far from reaching that point.”
“I am glad that the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) mentioned the important role played by training providers in supplying the off-the-job learning that is such a crucial factor in apprenticeships. Hugh Baird college in Sefton does a fantastic job in partnership with the employers who look after the apprentices, across a range of sectors. When I visited Michelin Tyre in Stoke a couple of years ago, I met engineers who were in their late 40s or early 50s. They were the youngest engineers in the company until a year or two ago, when the company suddenly realised that it had no way of replacing its engineers. We heard the same story from the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry).”
“I do not think the Justice Secretary answered the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), so I will give him another go. Did the Justice Secretary know before the appointment of the chief inspector of probation that his wife was the managing director of Sodexo Justice Services? Why did the Justice Committee not have that information for its pre-appointment hearing?”
“All too often, they have no concept of how to pay the rent or other bills, how to shop or cook, or how to get education or work. It is no wonder that so many of them end up struggling. A third of young people who leave care end up homeless between six and 24 months afterwards. That is a staggeringly high proportion.”
“If that does not happen, we will continue to spend far more in later years on looking after the adults that the children and young people become, whether through the high cost of prison, the benefits system or mental health care. If we are talking about finding extra money to fund the long-term solutions that our report suggests, has the time come to consider which Departments or budgets it will come from? The justice budget and the health budget are two possibilities, but the housing budget, the Department for Work and Pensions budget and the education budget also spring readily to mind. As we heard from the young people we met and as other young people have told me, when young people leave care, they are often leaving a situation where everything is done for them, with little preparation for having to look after themselves.”
“If as a society we have accepted that it is right for young people to stay in foster care until they are 21, it should be the same for those in residential care. As our report says: “the young people in question have already experienced troubled and disrupted childhoods and are far too important for their welfare not to be prioritised.” If we are serious about ensuring that support is available, we need to ensure that local authorities have the money. My council has lost more than 40% of its funding since 2010 and many other local authorities find themselves in that situation. If this Government or any future Government are serious about making a difference for these vulnerable young people and children, they, as well as local authorities, need to ensure that the resources are available.”
“The questions we want to pose to Ministers and, for that matter, potential Ministers are: is everything being done to ensure that children do not have to leave care if they do not want to, and do local authorities and others apply pressure to get young people to leave? I have heard such a point more than once, and we refer to the financial pressures in our report’s conclusion, where we recognise the resource constraints in relation to the difficulty of extending “Staying Put” arrangements in residential homes. One of the witnesses who gave evidence to the Committee was Ben Ashcroft, the author of “51 Moves”. He is involved in a campaign to extend residential care to the age of 21, which is as it should be.”
“Many young people go away and come back, so they leave home over a period; some parents would say that their young people never leave, as is sometimes their experience. However, that is not the case for this group of particularly vulnerable young people, so our recommendations are important. Our chapter on “Staying Put” gives the figures for those who leave care as 16 and 17-year-olds, and for those who leave on their 18th birthday. A remarkably high number—in the thousands—leave care before they are 18, and many more do so on their 18th birthday, when they are no longer regarded as looked-after children.”
“The point about the difference in treatment at different ages and the way in which we, as supposed corporate parents, allow that to happen, says everything we need to know in summary, and the detail has now been published in our report. The life chances of children in care—whether in education, employment, relationships or housing—are all significantly lower than for other people in society. For example, many of the prison population were in care as children, and 60% of children in care have some kind of mental health problem. The young people we met told us their stories, as do those who have met other Members at other times. Our report shows that leaving care is one of the key stages in their lives. It is very often a harsh cut-off date, whereas other young people usually have no arbitrary leaving date.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the Chairman of the Education Committee, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), who provided a very good summary and analysis of our report. Like other Committee members, the hon. Gentleman will have heard from or met those from the Alliance for Children in Care and Care Leavers. They have given me a copy of their requests for inclusion in the manifestos of all parties. One of their points is that the average age at which young people leave home is 24; yet young people leave care at 18 and, sadly, it is often earlier—at 16 or 17—for the most vulnerable and disadvantaged children or young people in our society. As the Chairman of the Committee said very well, they are the group most in need of support, but we expect them to fend for themselves and to go into independent living.”
“The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. He is talking about people who leave residential care. The Committee came across evidence of that during our inquiry on residential care and I suggest that he reads the report. It is worrying that society loses track of such a high number of young people. In this inquiry, we found a clear need for action, whether by doing better with existing resources, providing extra resources or both.”
“A point that has been made to me is that young people must value the support that they receive. It is not good enough for the authorities to describe what type of support should be available and who should provide it. Young people often have relationships with those they do not necessarily want supporting them, whether a social worker or somebody else they come across while they are in care. It is really important to listen to young people in deciding who is best placed to provide support for them. It is a matter of trust—I have heard that word mentioned a number of times.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that point. He is absolutely right. We made recommendations about better preparation for young people who are leaving care, including through the development of life skills. We highlighted a number of areas where support was crucial, based on the evidence that was presented to us. The concept of instant adulthood has been raised with me. It describes the sudden change in the lives of people who have been very much looked after and who have had everything done for them and everything provided for them. It describes how corporate parenting is not working in the way we would expect for this group of young people. The concept of corporate parenting had been used as a way of identifying how we should look after such young people.”
“They tend to house a group of young people with more complex needs, and they usually have 24/7 on-site support from staff. I give those examples to address the point made by the Chairman of the Committee about emergency accommodation—what is sometimes called bed and breakfast. Some of those examples are from Barnardo’s and other providers. I hope that the Minister and shadow Minister will look at what is out there already, because if we are to provide the range of alternatives that our report calls for, we should learn from good practice and share and apply it, so that—in the shortest possible time—better opportunities are available for this group of young people. I hope that the Minister will take my comments on board and perhaps respond when he winds up the debate.”
“Supported lodgings provide family-based support to vulnerable young people aged 16 to 25 who cannot live with their own family and are not yet ready for independent living. Young people are provided with places to live in the homes of local people, from whom they receive varying levels of practical and emotional support, enabling them to develop the confidence and capability to live independently. Young people normally stay in supported lodgings for up to two years, but they can also be used to provide shorter-term emergency housing. Supported housing projects offer high levels of support to young people for up to two years, although some have a small number of emergency beds available at short notice for a few days at a time.”
“I have had some good information provided to me by Barnardo’s, with examples of what goes on. It says that there are a number of examples of good practice around the country. The Chairman of the Education Committee mentioned what goes on in Wiltshire, and I am aware of good practice by Barnardo’s in Merseyside, for example, where it provides support not just for care leavers but for other young people in the same age group. Barnardo’s also gave me examples of nightstop, crash pads, supported lodgings and supported housing projects. Crash pads are short-term emergency supported lodgings. They are temporary forms of family-based accommodation, with placements lasting up to eight weeks. They provide specialist support to young people who need somewhere to live on a short-term basis.”
“I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point. As an adoptive parent of a sibling group, some of whom are still in care, I know from experience that that is incredibly important to my own children. He hits the nail on the head—sibling groups should be kept together wherever possible, and every effort should be made to keep siblings in touch while they are in care and into adulthood. As he says, we touch on that in the report. Such relationships can really help young people as they leave care and move into adulthood. What came out strongly in the evidence that we took, and in the evidence that I got from elsewhere, was the importance of a young person having someone to advise and support them, whether it is a sibling group, a friend, a trusted professional adviser or the parent of a friend.”
“One challenge in residential and in foster care of “Staying Put” is that it leaves fewer places for other children to enter the care system. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the very big challenges in foster care is to find more foster carers, and in residential care, as the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) pointed out, it is to find staff who will stay long-term so that we have a more experienced, quality work force?”
“On what my hon. Friend is saying about our recommendation for a framework of individual regulatory oversight, I confirm that we recommended that the DFE consult on setting one up. Does he agree that that is a sensible way forward?”
“I know that the Minister is aware of the shortage of CAMHS workers. He will appreciate that unless that is addressed, it will be difficult for him to live up to what he has just pledged. What work is he doing with colleagues at the Department of Health to ensure that there is an increase in the number of staff who are available to deliver what he has promised?”
“One of the problems in my constituency is that GP surgeries are relying on locums because it is not possible to find GPs to recruit on a full-time basis. Those locums provide a very erratic service; sometimes there is not even a locum available. That is adding to the problem, because as a result, all that is left to people is to go to A and E. I am sure that my right hon. Friend agrees that that is one of the contributory factors, and it proves his point that a chronic shortage of GPs has come about under this Government.”