Bill Esterson
MP for Sefton Central · Labour · United Kingdom
“As the Prime Minister said on Tuesday, our energy supply and our energy security are not a question of having either oil and gas, or renewables; they are about both. It is a great pity that proper process was not followed in 2022 or 2023. [ Interruption.”
“I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to continuing Britain’s global leadership on climate action, including by going to COP31. I also welcome his focus on breathing space for people and businesses, but, as he said, it will take a lot more than that to deliver the growth and reindustrialisation that he is so committed to.”
“Last week the Committee heard from Claire Dykta, the director of strategy and policy at NESO, who told us: “Operational decisions are taken by authorised, trained personnel only.” Her comments were confirmed by Alastair Martin, the chief strategy officer at Flexitricity, who, in the same session, said: “I do not think the idea that the he…”
“As the Minister has just said, new nuclear is essential for energy security. It is also essential as an alternative career for workers in oil and gas.”
“Paul and Susan Robinson each worked for the Health and Safety Executive for more than 40 years. They have not been able to plan for their retirement since finishing work last year; they have been living off their savings and the small loan that they have had. They are typical of the dozens of constituents who have contacted me.”
“Hudson primary school in my constituency does a brilliant job. It is a family hub, it specialises in support for children with SEND and autism, and it has a nursery, but its building, which is 80 years old, suffers from a high water table that brings damp, mould and structural problems for the building—as does occasional flooding.”
The complete record
Every one of 4,882 lines we hold for Bill Esterson, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 40 of 98.
“Well, the Secretary of State has been saying that for years. The Chair of the International Trade Committee spoke earlier, and the Committee’s report set out the consequences of a deal with the US: it will inevitably lead to a conflict, with the potential for lower standards, impacting our ability to do a trade deal with the EU. That point should be listened to and the Minister should respond to it in his summing up. We have had an excellent debate and I sincerely hope that the Minister will respond to the challenges set to him about where we have reached.”
“Friends have shown that the increase does not leave us at anything more than a standstill. I want the Minister to look very seriously at how our police are funded so that we can keep our communities safe and prevent any more Sam Cooks from happening.”
“I notice from the urgent question and the responses from the Minister that what is happening in Merseyside is repeated again and again right across the country. The same pattern is evident: a clear increase in the number of knives on our streets and in the number of attacks, as well as a fall in the amount of resources available. I want to be able to go away today and say to Alan Cook and his family and to Sam’s friends that the Minister agreed that Alan’s campaign for no more knives was the right campaign to support. Not only that, I want to say that she also said she would look seriously at giving an increase to Merseyside and other parts of the country where these things are a problem and where the resources that are needed are not there. We have those additional pressures, and my right hon. and hon.”
“I said earlier that Alan Cook wants tougher laws introduced to help reduce knife crime, and I suppose knife crime prevention orders might be part of the answer. The Minister might remind us, as she did on 4 February, that the police want such orders introduced. I do not doubt that for one moment. However, if we see a continued decline in the number of police officers who can respond, and a reduction in the numbers of officers and their partners across the public sector because of continued pressure on public sector finances, who will carry out the knife crime prevention orders? Who will implement the new policy? Who will be there to police our streets and prevent knife crime and other violent crime from continuing to escalate?”
“We heard reference to Operation Castle, which has had a significant impact in reducing the level of burglary and recognises the damage that it does both physically and psychologically to its victims. We have also been told that unless additional resources are forthcoming, such an approach will become increasingly difficult to sustain, just as it will become harder to reverse the increase in violent crime that we have heard about in the examples given by me and my right hon. and hon. Friends. I looked at the Hansard from 4 February and the Minister’s response to the urgent question from my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) on the proposed introduction of knife crime prevention orders.”
“The police service has to backfill for the National Health Service, especially in supporting people suffering from poor mental health, and there are other examples where officers carry out duties that are not part of mainstream policing. All these things add up to huge pressure on police time and contribute to making it much harder for the police to respond. In the case of Sam Cook, the issue was about prevention and making sure that they played their part in ensuring that he was kept safe. The increases in the number of knife crimes are all linked to the wider picture. Like my hon. and right hon. Friends, I want to pay tribute to Merseyside police, whose officers do a very good job. Andy Cooke and Jane Kennedy work extremely hard at keeping our communities as safe as possible.”
“I mention probation because the man who has now been convicted of murdering Sam Cook was on licence, having been convicted previously of being in possession of an offensive weapon. He was wandering round the streets of Blackpool waving a machete. He was given 16 months but was released after serving half that period and was then able to go and murder Sam Cook. The problem is that the public sector does not have the resources to prevent reoffending and to keep tabs on individuals such as the one who carried out that appalling crime. We have a problem not only in direct services, but in council services more generally.”
“I watched just how hard the staff in that centre, both uniformed and non-uniformed, work in trying to keep Merseyside safe. We have had the biggest cuts. We have the lowest tax base. We have the biggest cuts in grant and the smallest potential to raise funds from council tax, as we have heard from my colleagues. But we still face one of the lowest increases in central Government funding, despite having the greatest need for resources because of the scale of the problems that we face. All this is not in isolation, because it goes alongside cuts elsewhere in the public sector. The cuts to the youth service have been especially severe—hundreds of millions of pounds across the country—and probation service funding is down 30% in the past three years.”
“Over the period to which I have referred, the consequence of the cuts in funding has been a reduction in the workforce overall of 1,614. That is a fall of 22%, which is higher than the national figure of 18%. There has been a fall in the number of police officers of 1,120—a reduction of 24.4%, which is way above the 15% national average. That has been accompanied by a 46% fall in the number of PCSOs. That figure is also above the national average, which was 40% in that period. There are 215 fewer PCSOs. Police staff numbers are also down. Not just the frontline but the very important support staff are affected; no one should ever be in any doubt about the importance of support staff and the work that they do. I spent a very interesting morning at the force control centre not long ago.”
“The problem is that the increase in knife crime has corresponded with a reduction in the number of officers on our streets. As my right hon. and hon. Friends have reminded us, central Government funding has seen a real-terms reduction of 32%, and there has been an overall reduction of 21% in real terms, after account has been taken of precept increases. Since the 2010-11 financial year, the precept element of funding for Merseyside police has risen significantly, going up from 15% of the force’s funding to 23% by next year. This is all because of the low council tax base that we have across most of the boroughs of Merseyside. The force has made more than £110 million of savings. My hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) made the point that it feels as though it is being penalised for doing so.”
“That is an increase of 217 such crimes—an increase of 31%—compared with in the same period in the previous year. There have been two fatal stabbings, within the figures, in the past two years. One of the victims was Sam Cook, whom I have mentioned. What Alan Cook is calling for is no more knives. What he is calling for is the action that the Government could take to increase the opportunity, through legislation, to reduce the number of knives on our streets and to reduce the potential for what has happened to his family happening to anybody else. That is uppermost in the mind of Alan and his family. He says: “I don’t want any other family to go through what we have had to go through”, because it is the worst thing in the world. I am sure that we would all agree wholeheartedly with that.”
“He wants to pay tribute to his son in the best way he feels able to—by succeeding in his campaign to reduce the number of knives on our streets. Let me set out what he said about Sam: “He would come in and make everyone laugh. He was a joker and he always had a smile on his face. He was a decent kid too. All his friends went to Sam if ever there was an issue. He was sensible in the head.” That was the glowing tribute paid to this young man by his dad, but however decent he was, he was still a victim of appalling knife crime. We have heard already from my right hon. and hon. Friends the figures for the increase in violent crime that we face across Merseyside. I have the figures for knife crime over the past year. There was a total of 914 crimes involving knives on Merseyside between April 2018 and January 2019.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I completely endorse everything my right hon. and hon. Friends have said, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) on securing this debate. Sam Cook, my constituent, was murdered in Liverpool city centre just over a year ago on the night of his 21st birthday celebration. He was in a bar, somebody shoved his girlfriend, he stepped in to intervene and was stabbed. He died, despite desperate attempts to save his life. Sam’s dad, Alan, spoke to me recently about his son. He said that he received that knock on the door that no one ever wants to receive. I left a message for him before the debate and said that I would be thinking of him throughout it.”
“The greatest damage from prenatal exposure to alcohol is often done in the first few weeks of pregnancy, yet three quarters of women in the recent Bristol University study said that they drank alcohol while pregnant. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that the chief medical officer’s advice is given loud and clear by all health professionals: do not drink alcohol if pregnant or trying to conceive?”
“The Secretary of State for International Trade seems to be hell-bent on destroying our businesses, judging by his support for zero import tariffs. Can the Business Minister confirm that she understands the damage that unilaterally imposing zero import tariffs would do to businesses and jobs in this country? Will she confirm whether she or the Business Secretary will remain as members of the Government if that policy is adopted?”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. This is already close to being the longest statutory instrument Committee that I have served on in my nine years in this place and I have only just stood up to respond as Opposition spokesman.”
“However, unless those copies are available here, hon. Members will not be aware of everything that might be available to them.”
“This appears to have significant consequences for broadcasters, the impact of which is not addressed by the impact assessment. Speaking of the impact assessments, when I walked into the room, I did not see copies of the three impact assessments that the Minister referred to available for hon. Members to scrutinise. On previous occasions, when the Government have bothered to publish impact assessments, they have been available to members of Delegated Legislation Committees. I do not understand why that is not the case on this occasion. My hon. Friends, who have raised their concerns about their ability to do their job this afternoon, are absolutely right to make that point, because how can they possibly comment without that information, when they are not given such detail? I have a copy of it, because I got a copy before the meeting.”
“These regulations could represent real and substantive changes to the statute book and, as such, they need proper and in-depth scrutiny. In this light, we in the Opposition would like to put on record our deepest concerns that the process regarding these regulations is not as accessible and transparent as it should be. Let us look at the explanatory memorandum, to see in a bit more detail what is being addressed. Paragraph 7.2 refers to the EU satellite and cable directive, which allows broadcasters to gain copyright clearance for broadcasts across the EEA, while only having to obtain permission in the country of broadcast. The explanatory memorandum says that the regulation will apply only within the UK, with consequences unresolved as to the impact for broadcasting across the EEA.”
“The volume and flow of EU exit secondary legislation is deeply concerning for accountability and proper scrutiny, especially when the evidence does not back it up, because the evidence is not able to be provided to us, as we have just heard. The Government have assured the Opposition that no policy decisions are being taken. However, establishing a regulatory framework, for example, inevitably involves matters of judgment and raises questions about resourcing and capacity. Secondary legislation ought to be used for technical, non-partisan, non-controversial changes, because of the limited accountability that it allows. Instead, this Government continue to push through contentious legislation with high policy content via this vehicle. As legislators we have to get it right.”
“We have yet another statutory instrument, which describes detailed changes to regulations relating to the UK’s exit from the EU, including in the event of, as the Minister puts it, crashing out—on the Opposition Benches we are happy with that term, but others might call it no deal. Yet again, the analysis leaves significant gaps in the ability of hon. Members to scrutinise and adequately decide whether the regulations do what they are supposed to, or whether what they propose addresses the objective of preparing for life after Brexit, including in the event of no deal. On numerous previous occasions, my Labour Front- Bench colleagues and I have spelled out our objections to this Government’s approach to secondary legislation.”
“If we cannot answer those questions, how on earth can the Committee judge the responses—he cannot tell us what they are anyway—and whether they justify us supporting the regulations? I am afraid that we are in a bit of a pickle. The regulations are about whether holidaymakers can watch Netflix, Sky, Amazon Prime or any other content provider on the continent or in the Irish Republic; uncertainty about satellite TV broadcasts between countries staying in the EEA and our own; and businesses not knowing whether they can share databases. There is also an element in the regulations about the Marrakesh treaty and disabled people who copy material so they can use it in a different country from their country of origin, which I do not remember the Minister mentioning in his opening remarks.”
“I find the answers we have had to the numerous interventions absolutely remarkable—and not in a good way. The Minister’s inability to answer some pretty simple questions from my hon. Friends the Members for Huddersfield, for Chesterfield and for Newcastle upon Tyne North is staggering. I do not blame him in particular, because it is not his brief, but the fact that the answers are not available for him to give is baffling. If the Minister cannot tell us what was said in the consultation, what was the point of it? What concerns were raised? He cannot tell us that either. How do we know whether the consultees at those roundtables truly reflected the breadth of views in the sector?”
“I think my hon. Friend has made an extremely good point, and the Minister and his colleagues have heard what she has said. And I thank you, Sir Edward, for your intervention there as well. This situation simply is not good enough. I came to this Committee today expecting that all Members would have the information that I have, or that it would be available to them in the room, but it is not here. Of the papers that are emailed around when the Committee of Selection selects the Members for a Committee, the impact assessment is not one of the documents that is usually sent; it is usually waiting here in the room for us. It would usually only be the Front-Bench spokespersons who would get a copy in advance.”
“I completely agree with that, and there are a number of points here. In previous Committees, we have had a discussion about the fact that impact assessments have not been produced at all on numerous occasions when significant changes have been made, and there has been an issue with the nature of the impact assessments that the Government have chosen to produce. I will discuss a little later the content of the three impact assessments that have been produced. My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North is quite right that they do not actually give Members the ability to scrutinise thoroughly what we are being asked to scrutinise.”
“The Minister’s response will need to be remarkable to address the yawning gap in his analysis.”
“Had there been, perhaps the lawyers could have advised the Government and avoided any potential that the regulations would be inadequate. Perhaps the lawyers would have had time to tell us whether the Government’s proposed regulations were fit for purpose. We have not even had that from the people at the roundtable. I return to the expert advice. That lawyer with 40 years’ experience in IP told me, “The one thing that can be said with certainty is that it is a shocking departure from minimum standards of Parliamentary scrutiny to allow such wholesale changes to our existing intellectual property laws to be made without proper stakeholder or expert scrutiny.” That lawyer confirms what we have been saying about a number of the SIs we have been asked to consider.”
“It would be a very considerable undertaking to quality assure these very complex amendments to existing UK law.” That came from a lawyer with 40 years’ experience of UK intellectual property law. The specialist IP lawyers who looked at this do not have the bandwidth to consider these matters. They tell us that making good regulations matters, so the courts do not have to spend the next decade unpicking them, but lawyers are unable to say whether the Government guidance on no-deal consequences have been addressed. If the lawyers cannot say whether the regulations can be relied on, what chance do we have, as Members of the House of Commons with limited access to information? The Minister confirmed there was no formal consultation.”
“I wondered how it was possible for someone who is not an expert in the relevant law to confirm those claims, so I sought advice from a number of legal experts, since the Government did not publish any analysis from lawyers. One lawyer told me: “I don’t have the bandwidth to think the implications through”. That goes to the first intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield. Another lawyer told me: “The draft regulations simply need as much Parliamentary scrutiny as time permits, and the goal is more technical than policy driven - to make the regulations as good as they can be under the circumstances, so that the courts don't have to spend the next decade unpicking them.”
“UK online content services with EU equivalents will not be able to give customers access to their material when present in the UK unless access is reciprocated—that is in the impact assessment. That will not be in place from day one after Brexit, and there is no indication of how long such arrangements might take to put in place. What was the basis for the statement in the impact assessment that tourism in the UK would not be affected? Were broadcasters consulted? What was their view? What was the view of the UK hospitality industry of the impact on tourism in this country? Were they at those roundtables? The explanatory memorandum states that the regulations achieve certain objectives.”
“So much for the championing of the cause of the consumer, which we often hear from members of the Government, in particular the Secretary of State for International Trade. Meanwhile, again in the impact assessments, we see that EEA broadcasters will not need separate rights clearance in the UK. But without a reciprocal agreement post Brexit, EEA nations could choose to suspend country of origin broadcast rules between member states. While the statutory instrument preserves the status quo, EEA broadcasters into the UK may be affected by familiarisation costs. Some 33,000 UK businesses would be affected—that is a Government estimate—as their work is broadcast by EEA rights holders into the UK. Again, there is potential for costs to be passed on to the consumers. Was that point raised in the roundtable, and what was said? We do not know.”
“It does not address the concerns raised by the Government’s own guidance. According to the impact assessments—I return to the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North—inadequate as they are, the Government’s aim is to maintain the status quo for UK database creators and to avoid any costs to rights holders. The logic of what is proposed is that there will be a cost to EEA creators of databases that will likely be passed on to UK consumers. It is hard to believe that consumers will not have significant concerns about the idea of having to pay more for their services. The consumer affairs experts we spoke to in preparing for this Committee had not been consulted about that. I wonder what was said at those roundtables by consumer representatives about those concerns.”
“This side of the House has made that point repeatedly in Delegated Legislation Committees that have considered multiple and complex regulations related to exit from the European Union. The Government guidance published on 24 September 2018 sets out the consequences of a no-deal scenario in this area. It raises concerns about universal database rights, portability of online content services, country of origin for copyright clearance of satellite broadcasting, the potential for UK heritage institutions to infringe copyright, the non-ratification of the Marrakesh treaty before exit day, and the potential implications. All those concerns are apparent from a detailed analysis of the regulations and the explanatory memorandum, yet the information before us does not explain how or why they should be, and have been, addressed.”
“The House of Lords reached a similar conclusion. The sifting Committee conclusion is confirmed in paragraph 3.2 of the explanatory memorandum to the regulations. Without more detailed impact assessments, how is it possible for the Government to claim that the statutory instrument does what is needed to protect businesses, workers and consumers? The EU approach to impact assessments for regulatory changes is so much stronger than the narrow version chosen by the Government. It addresses the wider economic and societal impact. It is absurd that the Government refuse to use such an analysis for complex, far-reaching changes. The lack of full analysis and consultation leaves open the question of whether regulations such as these are fit for purpose and whether they might be open to challenge in the courts.”
“The House of Commons sifting Committee gave the following reasons: “The amendments to primary legislation are considerable, and the combined number of changes to other legislation is significant, all relating to intellectual property, a cornerstone of the internal market in services.” The Committee set out its concerns about the country of origin principle for satellite broadcasting and the portability or otherwise of online content. It stated its reservations about the inadequacy of the impact assessments, just as my hon. Friends have this afternoon: “The Committee is concerned about the impact on business and the loss of consumer rights and is disappointed that the Government has chosen not to provide further information on these issues to assist the Committee in its decision making.” That is sounding very familiar.”
“Paragraph 7.20 concerns the portability regulation—this affects Netflix and Amazon Prime—which allows us to watch content when we visit the EEA by moving rights and permissions with the consumer. The draft regulations appear to end that arrangement. That change will have a significant impact on consumers and on the providers of content. Who will pay for holidaymakers to watch Netflix or Amazon Prime when in the EU after 29 March? I wonder whether we will be able to watch the “House of Cards” series—it springs to mind in this place—using a UK subscription, or if we will need to buy a new EU subscription to do so. Can the Minister clarify that? The sifting Committees of both Houses of Parliament recommended that the statutory instrument should be upgraded from the negative to the affirmative procedure.”
“I do not pretend to understand the consequences of the EU’s membership of the Marrakesh treaty—unlike some of the lawyers sat behind me, I do not have the training or qualification for that—but can the Minister tell us when we will ratify the Marrakesh treaty in our own right as the UK, as indicated in paragraph 7.21? According to the Government’s September guidance on no-deal planning, the answer is “after we have left the EU.” Can the Minister confirm whether we will be able to do what is suggested in the explanatory memorandum between exit day and ratification of the treaty? Can he confirm when we will become signatories to the treaty in our own right, or whether something already happened in that respect that is not mentioned in this paperwork?”
“In contrast to the paragraphs that indicate a continuation of mutual recognition or an establishment of new agreements on mutual recognition in some areas, paragraph 7.10 of the explanatory memorandum refers to the ending of mutual recognition and to the end of information sharing with respect to UK cultural heritage institutions. It is impossible to predict the consequences of the end of those arrangements for the arts and for heritage objects. Paragraphs 7.12 and 7.21 refer to the Marrakesh treaty and rights for disabled people to copy copyrighted materials and to exchange such copies. Paragraph 7.12 refers to the loss of rights for disabled people to have copies of copyrighted works without infringing copyright.”
“In paragraphs 7.5, 7.8 and 7.15 of the explanatory memorandum, it is claimed that there will be consistency of treatment for EEA citizens in the UK and for UK citizens in the EEA. Again, when was a mutual recognition agreement signed? Or, in the event that it was not, why is that claim being made? As far as I can see from what has been published, we have no way of verifying whether the regulations will hold up in court. That lack of published consultation—or informal roundtable consultation, or however the Minister wishes to describe it—would suggest that I am right to have such concerns.”
“I wonder whether that was one of the technical points raised in the roundtable to which the Minister referred—he was not able to tell us before, but perhaps he will be when he responds. Paragraph 7.4 of the explanatory memorandum refers to the implementation of the EU term directive and to copyright duration for copyright works originating from EEA states. It also says that copyright works originating in the UK will be treated with consistency in the EEA. I can see how we could guarantee consistency of treatment of works originating in the EEA, but how can the regulations guarantee the same in return? Has a mutual recognition agreement been finalised in that respect?”
“Just to emphasise the consequences of these regulations, a European Commission notice to stakeholders states that in the absence of an agreement between the UK and the EU, broadcasters in the UK will no longer benefit from this mechanism when providing cross-border broadcasting services to EU customers, and they will have to clear rights in all the member states that their signal reaches. I do not think we are talking about a situation where it is just one side of the Irish border or the other, although there are some interesting questions there about where someone lives and which signal they receive. I do not see how the regulations address the Commission’s point. That must be of major concern to UK broadcasters.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a similarity with the portability of content and the ability for consumers to watch Netflix or Amazon Prime, on the one hand, or for satellite broadcasters to reach their customers in a country different from the one where their broadcast comes from. It is very similar to the point about mobile phone roaming charges. Who knows? Maybe somebody will table an urgent question on those points in the days ahead. So I completely agree with my hon. Friend’s point; it had occurred to me, as well. I mentioned the apparently very significant consequences for broadcasters, which have not been addressed by the impact assessment.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I have a great deal of respect for him, and I do listen to him. The Opposition understand that this series of statutory instruments is about preparing for no deal and trying to avoid disruption. The problem is that the information available to us and the answers we have had from the Minister raise serious questions about whether that is exactly what is happening. That is the heart of the matter.”
“The very fact that the Secretary of State is even considering zero import tariffs threatens the survival of our steel, ceramics and tyre industries. There will be no incentive for our partners to negotiate new trade deals, or to renegotiate existing ones, as the Secretary of State will have given away the shop before negotiations start. Thousands of workers whose jobs will have gone will no longer be the consumers he says will take advantage of cheap imports. When is he going to admit he is wrong?”
“According to the latest research, between 40,000 and 120,000 children are born every year with foetal alcohol spectrum disorders. Those with FASD often do not understand consequences, so will the Minister look at the special courts that have been set up in Canada, designed to reduce reoffending by helping those with FASD to understand the consequences of their actions?”
“I know that the Law Society helped to draft the regulations, but without wider input from those who will be affected by them, it is difficult to see how confident we can be that they are entirely satisfactory. As ever, I remind the Committee that when other jurisdictions, such as the European Union, carry out an impact assessment, they consider the wider impact, and not just the very narrow direct impact of the regulations. It would be extremely advisable for the Government to change their policy and carry out a proper impact assessment. Perhaps the Minister will wish to reconsider her comment that these measures deliver certainty and clarity for when we leave the EU; they do not.”
“In paragraph 7.8 of the explanatory memorandum, the Government refer to the measure applying to a “very few companies”. Will the Minister say how many companies are a “very few”? My other points are, as ever, about consultation and impact. We have this discussion every time we debate a statutory instrument of this sort, and I will not disappoint Members by omitting it today. Paragraph 10.1 indicates that the Government have not been able publicly to consult. That is cause for concern, and it is a reminder that the Minister’s statement about certainty and clarity is odd for yet another reason. Will she explain why the Government were unable to consult before laying these regulations before the House?”
“For businesses that are based in the EEA and have branches in the UK, that could lead to a delay in updating the registers. If information is not up to date, the consequence for businesses buying or selling, or for consumers buying, could be that they do not get a true picture of the status of a company that they seek to trade with. Will she clarify whether that explanation is accurate? What plans are in place to deliver the best possible replacement arrangements for international cross-border trade, for businesses and consumers? The existing arrangements provide immediacy, certainty and confidence, which is why BRIS was set up in the first place. Those are my key questions, but I have a small number of additional comments.”
“In my experience, we in this country use Companies House to check the legitimacy of a business, inspect accounts, find out who the shareholders are, find the registered office address and carry out checks before trading with another business. It is important for business-to-business activity and to enable consumers to understand whether they are buying from a reputable trader. That is a domestic matter, but at the moment, BRIS means that a straightforward and updated system can be used for such activity across the EEA. As BRIS is ending, what system will replace it? My assumption—the Minister can confirm it or not—is that for all EEA companies, we will move to the system that we have for companies based in countries outside the EEA.”
“I am interested to know what plans the Department has and what process will be followed. The Minister mentioned the business registers inter- connection system, which is the EEA system that joins our Companies House system with similar systems across the rest of the EEA, if I understand correctly. We will no longer be involved in BRIS when we leave the EU, and that will have an impact on foreign branches of EEA-based businesses. Given her comment that internationally based companies will be treated the same, regardless of whether they are EEA or non-EEA, and that there will not be access to BRIS, what will be the impact for anybody who wants to use the EEA systems —the equivalents of Companies House—that are part of BRIS?”