Stephen Doughty
MP for Cardiff South and Penarth · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to set out the situation, the threats and the impact on our economy. Across this House, we share a desire to get the strait reopened.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his sustained and continued advocacy on behalf of his constituent, which is deeply powerful. I know it is of concern to many Members across this House. Despite some progress in Mr Johal’s legal proceedings, eight of the cases against him remain outstanding.”
“I share the hon. Gentleman’s horror at some of the things we have seen going on in those illegal settlements, and we have absolutely condemned the settler violence—the settler terrorism—that we have seen.”
“I pay tribute to our Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office consular teams, particularly for their current work on the Nepal-China flooding crisis. It is also important to pay tribute to the work they do to support the thousands of British nationals who are arrested or detained abroad each year.”
“If I may, Mr Speaker, I want to start by acknowledging the devastating floods in Nepal. I know many Members are supporting constituents who have been affected by this tragedy, and our intention remains to support British nationals and the people of Nepal.”
“The right hon. Gentleman raises important cases. I can assure him that we continue to support the clemency applications of Ryan Cornelius and Charles Ridley and to raise their case with the UAE authorities. In fact, I did so recently; the former Foreign Secretary did so as well and has met the families. As the right hon.”
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“I thank the Minister for the tone in which he is responding to the debate. I wonder whether he could go back to his colleagues at the Treasury and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities on an issue I have raised a number of times in the past: funding for dealing with fire and building safety issues in Wales. When it comes to the funding given through big announcements at Westminster, it has been really difficult to get clarity about what is passed on to Wales. Councillor Lynda Thorne from Cardiff Council spoke with me the other day. We are trying to support residents, but without clarity on the money coming through from the UK Government, it is difficult to respond systematically. Can the Minister raise that with his colleagues again?”
“They are innovating, particularly in relation to the greening of our towns and cities and our economy going forward, and the new industries and technologies that will be the bedrock of the future Welsh economy and the future of jobs and opportunities for our young people. Thank you again for chairing the debate, Sir Gary, and thank you to all colleagues and the Minister for participating today. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the role of Welsh local authorities in delivering public services and economic development.”
“It has been a fantastic debate, with some great contributions from colleagues. It is a shame that we did not have some colleagues from other parts of Wales present, but we did try to get in points relating to a number of the other local authorities, including in north Wales and elsewhere. It is important to recognise their contribution, and that of their staff and councillors. Suffice it to say that during the pandemic we have seen the best of our local authorities in Wales, but not only that: going forward, our local authorities are setting out a hugely ambitious and optimistic agenda.”
“I welcome what the Minister has said about co-ordination with the G7 on Ukraine, but does he agree that Putin seeks to create instability and insecurity elsewhere in Europe at the same time, including in the western Balkans, Moldova and the Caucasus. Can he tell us what he has been doing with G7 counterparts and our partners in the EU to address those attempts to create instability across the rest of Europe?”
“I thank the Minister for his personal help, but my constituents share the absolute frustration at the speed at which the Government are moving on this issue. Can he get a grip on the situation in Warsaw? I heard today of people who are seeking to join their family in the UK but who are being told that there are no appointments available until at least 15 March, even though they have been in Poland for some time having escaped Kyiv. Will he publish how many staff have actually been posted to Warsaw, Bucharest, Budapest, Bratislava and Chisinau? Have we actually sent staff? Are all of them operating at seven-day capacity? How long do people have to wait for appointments in those locations?”
“The Opposition welcome the fact that the Government are bringing forward these measures. We will approach them in a constructive spirit, but I want to ask some detailed questions. First, as the Minister pointed out, certain measures relate to financial matters and others relate to dual-use materials, military supplies and other critical industry goods such as those for use in aerospace and communications. I hope that the Minister will provide more clarity on the question of immediacy. My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) made an incredibly important point about the 30 days; we need to be absolutely clear that there will not be an opportunity for people to move assets or finances out or seek to circumvent the measures in some way.”
“We pay tribute to all the Russians speaking up against the invasion. We must be clear that it is the Russian Government, not the Russian people, whose actions we condemn; it is Putin who is responsible for the economic consequences of these measures. We will also see economic impacts here in the UK, as the explanatory memorandums to the regulations make clear, but that is no reason not to act robustly, broadly and swiftly. The unity of the UK and our allies is crucial in that endeavour. We welcome the efforts to co-ordinate with our EU, US and European allies and partners, both NATO and non-NATO, and with many countries around the world. We must build the widest possible coalition to oppose this war, but as many hon. Members have pointed out we cannot be the weak link in designation, implementation and enforcement.”
“As the Minister pointed out, we have seen the effects that financial sanctions have already begun to have, with the rouble crashing by over 40%, the main borrowing rates up to 20%, and inflation skyrocketing. The Opposition recognise, as I am sure Members across the House do, the brave and difficult decisions that many of our allies and partners have taken to make these measures as effective as possible, including cutting Russia out from SWIFT, as we have long called for. I am acutely conscious that the sanctions will inevitably have difficult consequences for ordinary Russians, who did not choose this illegal war pursued by Putin. In the past few days, we have seen brave acts of protest and criticism. It takes true courage to protest in Russia, as I am sure the Minister agrees.”
“In recent hours we have heard shocking warnings from the Russians to civilians to avoid certain areas of Kyiv. The risks are huge. We heard in the statement earlier of the hundreds of thousands of refugees who have already fled the country. We must continue to do everything we can to support the humanitarian effort to offer sanctuary in the UK and to assist the situation at Ukraine’s borders, including ensuring the full application of all refugee laws and ensuring that there is no discrimination when it comes to human beings seeking to flee to safety. As the humanitarian situation worsens, that is a stark reminder of the urgency of the need to do everything we can to step up the pressure on Putin to end this bloody campaign.”
“The horrific reports from Kharkiv overnight, the alleged use of cluster munitions and the deaths and injury of civilians are deeply, deeply shocking. I am sure that colleagues will join me in welcoming the decision by the International Criminal Court prosecutor to open urgent investigations into some of the matters we have seen that have shocked the world. Russia must comply with the laws of armed conflict—the very basic principles that attempt to ensure at least some dignity, proportionality and discrimination to protect civilians and others amid the horrors of war. Those responsible must be held to account. As we debate these regulations in the Chamber today, let us not forget why we are doing so: the dark spectre of a miles-long column of Russian armour that approaches Kyiv, a city of more than 2.5 million people.”
“In that regard, I do not want to detain the House for too long, but we do have a number of questions to ask the Minister. We are pledged to work with the Government to work at speed to ensure that the House can pass the necessary legislative measures. I think we first got these just before midnight last night and we are obviously debating them now. We will work with the Government on that, but we do have questions to ask and it is important to go through the proper procedures. We urge the Government to go even faster and further, not least as we see the scenes today with Russian forces encountering courageous Ukrainian defences but the fighting getting bloodier and increasingly indiscriminate.”
“I thank Ministers and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office officials for the pre-briefings they provided on these measures. I understand that in response to our request for briefings for Members across the House—because the Minister will have seen the great deal of interest that there is in the detail—the FCDO will now be providing those on a daily basis. I hope that the Minister can confirm that. Russia’s unjustifiable and unprovoked attack on Ukraine is a heinous crime of aggression, and we stand united in this House in our utter condemnation of President Putin’s invasion and in complete solidarity with the people of Ukraine, who are showing extraordinary courage, resilience and sacrifice in resisting this onslaught. The desire for tough action on these matters is robust and united across this House and across this kingdom.”
“I am sure that the Minister will say that we are not naming individuals to give them advance warning, but the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) is absolutely right to bring up the fear of asset flight, as several hon. Members have done. We have already heard rumours today that a number of people are trying to dispose of assets and move money. I hope that the Government will name and shame the law firms and accountants who are facilitating that; they are the same enablers who have facilitated the illicit finance network and propped up the Putin regime for far too long in this country. Quite frankly, those law and accountancy firms and others involved should be ashamed of themselves.”
“I completely agree about the need for effectiveness. A point has been made today about the slow pace of the designation of some individuals and entities. The Government have rightly talked about moving in lockstep with our allies, particularly in the EU, yet we still seem to be off pace in naming individuals—we seem to be moving more slowly. Some of the individuals that we have mentioned have already been sanctioned by the US and others for years or do not have significant assets in the UK. We need to ensure that our measures are meaningful, immediate, effective, deep and robust, and that individuals are not now sweeping their money and assets out of the UK.”
“The hon. Lady makes an important point. The Minister can be assured of our co-operation in getting these measures through quickly. He has already heard some suggestions for ways in which we might name individuals more quickly; I hope we will hear back from him about them. We believe that we need to go further to widen financial and banking sectoral measures beyond Sberbank. My second question is about whether the Minister can explain why measures on corresponding banks have not been applied to all Russian financial institutions today, rather than just to Sberbank. Indeed, we understand that the measures have been expanded to include sovereign debt. The Opposition have called for that to apply to UK subsidiaries of entities as well. Will the Minister confirm the position?”
“If that were undertaken with our partners and allies, it could have a major effect in putting the squeeze on those around Putin who enjoy their luxury lifestyles.”
“There are other exemptions that clearly make sense, relating to humanitarian affairs and extraordinary circumstances, and I can understand why they are there, but can the Minister provide a fuller explanation? Fourthly, the Government have previously referred to an intention to limit the deposits that can be made by Russian nationals. Do they still intend to introduce such a measure, which is not part of the package that we are discussing today? Fifthly, we think that there are additional things that the Government could do. For example, the US immediately introduced a ban on all imports from Donbas regions controlled by Russia. Have the Government considered that? We have also proposed a ban on the export of luxury goods, comparable with what has been in place against Syria.”
“It will clearly be necessary for us to propose and potentially impose measures for quite some time—for a number of years, according to the explanatory notes—and we have agreed to work with the Government on that. Obviously, as I have said, we hope that they are acting robustly, deeply and broadly now. It is crucial to send a very strong signal, not least given what we have seen. I certainly hope that Russia turns around and ends this illegal invasion, but at the moment we have to send that very strong signal. Thirdly, there are some exemptions in the legislation, and it is not clear on the surface why they apply. For example, there is an exemption for correspondent clearing services relating to aviation assets. Can the Minister explain the reasoning behind that?”
“My understanding is that these sanctions would, for example, prevent service companies from servicing a large mansion somewhere in London in respect of, say, cleaning or facilities. Of course, the individual would still be able to make use of the asset.”
“I understand that the sanctions we are discussing today will apply to insurance and reinsurance as it applies to the specific transactions covered by these sanctions, but will the Minister tell us whether the Government are considering a wider prohibition on the provision of insurance and reinsurance services more generally to Russia and those engaging with the regime, not least given the key role that the UK plays in the international insurance market? Seventhly, we have heard the point rightly made by one of the Minister’s own colleagues, the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie), about Scottish limited partnerships. May we have some urgent answers on that? My right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne) raised a point about the use of assets.”
“I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman, especially in connection with the measures relating to SLAPP suits that we debated recently in the House. This is a crucial point. There is a whole infrastructure here, a whole systemic problem. What saddens me is that many of these measures were set out so clearly by, for instance, the Foreign Affairs Committee and in the Russia report, but were not introduced. I hope that the Government will now bring forward measures in all these areas. The measures do not, of course, apply only to Russia; they apply to other regimes that are doing heinous things. Sixthly, we support wider sectoral measures, to cover insurance and reinsurance, for example, preventing UK firms from underwriting transactions with Russian entities or activity in Russia.”
“I hope that a strong message goes out from this House and from across the United Kingdom that we will unite to impose the strongest measures and provide the strongest support we can to the Ukrainian people in these dark days.”
“We want to work with him in co-operation, but we need to have that information in order to understand when these things are coming. Finally, today is St David’s day, the national day of my home—Wales. I have previously spoken in this place of the strong historic ties between Ukraine and not only my home city of Cardiff but the whole of Wales. I am hugely proud of the demonstrations of support and solidarity that we have seen across Wales, including in Cardiff, as well as across the UK, and I am delighted to report that the Welsh First Minister has in the last hour announced direct support from Wales of £4 million for humanitarian and medical needs. Wales stands ready to welcome Ukrainians fleeing the conflict, just as we have done for Afghans and so many other people across the globe throughout history.”
“As has been said, sanctions are important but they alone will not deal with the wider problems of illicit finance and the UK’s role as a hub for corrupt, Russia-linked money. This is a matter not just of individuals but of fixing a broken system in which poor governance, weak enforcement and a lack of transparency have allowed the UK to be a haven for ill-gotten gains. We have to take action across the board. There is a range of additional measures, and the Minister has hinted that we might see measures relating to shipping. Again, we want to understand that these will apply globally, in the light of our overseas territories and Crown dependencies. Can he tell us when he expects additional SIs and designations to be laid?”
“Will the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation issue urgent and clear new guidance on these measures? Similarly, will additional resources be provided to the export control joint unit to support compliance and enforcement? If we want the toughest measures, we will also need the toughest enforcement, but unfortunately many of the agencies have been lagging behind the US. They do excellent work, but they have not had the resources they need. There are multiple reports today that troops from Belarus might have been entering Ukraine. They are unconfirmed at this stage, but we know that attacks have been conducted from the territory of Belarus. We have all previously called for wider sanctions against Belarus, and indeed the EU has laid out such sanctions. Will these measures be effective against Belarusian entities and individuals?”
“I pay tribute to the officials in the FCDO sanctions unit, who are working on these matters at speed, but can I get an assurance from the Minister that their resourcing is being rapidly scaled up so that we can move swiftly, robustly and in a legally sound way? What consideration is being given to alternative routes for naming some of the individuals? These are highly complex sanctions measures, especially in relation to the dual use of goods, and a major Government effort will be vital to ensure that there is detailed understanding across the private sector so that we can support their implementation, not least given the severe penalties outlined in the instrument and our desire for the measures to be implemented immediately and effectively.”
“My right hon. Friend makes a crucial point. My understanding, which the Minister can clarify if necessary, is that it does apply to financial transactions including mortgages and remortgaging, but we need to understand this because we need to truly freeze the use of these assets and not allow loopholes. As always, I must ask how these measures will apply to the British overseas territories and Crown dependencies. Will they be effective immediately in those territories or will we, or they, have to pass additional measures? We do not want a lag effect of days in those jurisdictions. I also want to ask about resourcing.”
“I am delighted that my hon. Friend and neighbour has secured this debate. She will know that the first purpose-built mosque in Wales was in my constituency, but of course the heritage goes back much further, certainly to the mid-1800s for the Somali community. We also have a strong Yemeni community, as well as all the other communities that she mentioned. The community made a fantastic contribution during the covid pandemic, but it has done so over many decades.”
“I thank my hon. Friend and neighbour for being so generous in giving way again. I totally agree with and endorse the points she has made about Islamophobia. Regrettably, despite the wonderful communities that we have locally, we have seen some terrible incidents, which have been raised with me by members of the community. Does she agree that we need to do specific work to target the rise of the far and extreme right? We have seen some horrific incidents in my own constituency and elsewhere, so we need to work together with law enforcement agencies, with counter-terrorism forces and—crucially—with those in education to tackle the rise of far and extreme right ideology in the UK.”
“I fully endorse my hon. Friend’s comments about the links with Bangladesh. I recently had the chance to have a meeting with the Wales Bangladesh chamber of commerce and heard more about those links, which are absolutely fantastic. Does my hon. Friend agree that a number of Muslim-led and Muslim-majority organisations are doing fantastic work in education with young people? Some of our sporting organisations, such as Tiger Bay boxing club and Tiger Bay football club, which are in my hon. Friend’s constituency, are not only delivering amazing sporting prowess in the community, but providing tutoring, education and inspiring mentorship for young people.”
“The effects of this moment will depend as much on our response to this aggression as they will on the aggression itself. Autocrats around the world are watching to see whether we meet this test of our strength and resolve. It is not a time for half-measures or naivety as to President Putin’s intentions. We should believe what we see written on the tin and act accordingly. Members on the Opposition Benches and across the House will stand with the people of Ukraine. We will stand unified in this country in the face of this aggression. Of that, Vladimir Putin and those who sustain his kleptocratic, corrupt and authoritarian regime should be in absolutely no doubt.”
“Last night—we all saw the footage—he sent his troops to invade a sovereign democratic European state, in flagrant violation of international law and in violation of the diplomatic commitments that he and his own Government have signed up to over decades. The Minister served honourably and gallantly in the Royal Artillery, and I am sure he will agree that peacekeepers do not come into a country alongside artillery and tanks. It is absolute nonsense, and we can all see it for what it is. It is a crime against peace and an assault on international law, and the people of Ukraine have our complete solidarity. We admire their courage, we will champion their democratic rights, and we will support their right to defend themselves and the democracy they have built.”
“We stand ready to work constructively with the Government to urgently pass tougher and broader measures, whether that is under the regulations today, the Magnitsky sanctions regime or urgently considering further legislation needed to take action. We will work with the Government on those things. We are at a critical juncture. We need to act decisively and robustly. We know the Putin playbook—we have seen it in operation in Georgia, in illegally annexing Crimea and in supporting violence in the Donbas since 2014. Thousands of civilians and soldiers have already lost their lives. For two months, Putin has menaced Ukraine’s borders, mustering the largest build-up of military forces in Europe since the second world war.”
“Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), who is no longer in his place, spoke about the oligarchs holding Putin’s money stolen from the Russian state and where we need to be hitting, and again asked questions about the objectives and consequences. My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) said that we have been recklessly naive for far too long, and also said that he could not understand the ratchet mechanism. The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) and many others gave powerful and strong messages to the Minister, and I hope those have been heard and that the Minister has heard the will of the House today.”
“I have seen him shake his head a number of times during the debate. I am happy if he wants to correct and clarify anything, as it is really important that we get clarity on these matters. I understand that officers in companies who set policy but are not on the board cannot be sanctioned under the new legislation. Will he clarify that point? What is the situation regarding family members of sanctioned individuals? Will they also face sanctions? We have heard powerful speeches from across the House. The hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat) made a tough and powerful speech saying that we need to put our money where our mouth is. The hon. Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith) joined in the agreement that we need to take tougher measures. The right hon.”
“According to reports, the EU has today announced 27 individuals and entities that it will be targeting. Why are we not doing all that and more? What discussions have we had with the United States today about new measures that President Biden will be announcing? How are we going to further resource and expand our own sanctions unit to ensure that we can respond as needs be? I have asked questions about this and we have not been able to get clarity on the number of officials and the resources that it is getting. There have been reasonable questions raised on a number of other technical matters. New legislation is unlikely to affect oligarchs close to Putin who do not hold an official position in a company and who own less than 50% of the shares. Will the Minister clarify that point?”
“Will he be absolutely clear about that and what the steps will be if further actions are taken? What will he do to deal with the asset flight by individuals and entities who are not sanctioned today, and banks that may be cashing in that are not included on the list and should have been? We have heard many names mentioned by hon. and right hon. Members. What is the implementation and enforcement mechanism in relation to these sanctions, not only here but in our overseas territories and Crown dependencies where many of these people are stashing their money? He has said much about further lists and further legislation. When are we going to see the legislation that allows us to target the members of the Duma who voted for this illegal recognition? We need to be moving in lockstep with our allies.”
“The Minister should be in absolutely no doubt—I am sure he is not, as he has heard the unanimous and powerful voices from all parts of the House—that we must go further, deeper and faster if we are to respond to the scale of the threat and have an impact on preventing further bloody escalation. I am afraid that, as we have heard, we have started too low and too slow. We have a chance to turn that around, and we as the Opposition will work with the Government to ensure that tough measures are implemented. The Minister will have heard time and again questions about objectives and the desire to see the ratchet mechanism explained more clearly, so I hope he can do that in his concluding remarks. He said earlier that the objectives were to prevent further invasion and to seek withdrawal.”
“This is an invasion, not an incursion. These are not peacekeepers. In response, we must be bold, decisive, urgent, and under no illusions about the fact that only the toughest of measures that hit the pockets, property and privileges of those who facilitate and sustain the Putin regime may yet convince them to think again. They cannot and must not be able to use London or the United Kingdom as their bolthole. We must accept that the previous measures did not work and did not go far enough. Indeed, the section 46 report provided with these sanctions makes this clear, stating that the existing measures under the 2019 regulations have not achieved the desired outcomes.”
“But I am absolutely sure that Ukrainians are proud, they are motivated, and they will resist; they will not welcome an imperialist invader with open arms. I think of the Russian and Ukrainian mothers who may see sons and daughters return, tragically, in coffins because of the paranoias and obsessions of this one man. Who is next: Moldova, Georgia again, our Baltic NATO allies or Finland? Those who had not already read Putin’s bizarre, dangerous and historically revisionist essay should be left in no doubt by his words yesterday evening or by the finally revealed truth emerging from the façade of lies built by him and his associates over recent weeks while others had entered into good-faith diplomacy and the pursuit of peace, mutual security and respect. We need to wake up to what we now see unfolding before our own eyes.”
“Ukraine is not some far-flung land; the ties between Ukraine and my home of Wales are strong, deep and enduring—not least with the Donbas region, given our shared coalmining heritage. Indeed, Donetsk itself was founded by a Welshman, John Hughes, in 1869, on the site of an older town, and Luhansk was twinned with my own city, Cardiff, for many years. Cardiff residents have helped civilians hit by the impact of war over the past eight years, and Luhansk residents sent aid to help striking miners in south Wales in 1980s. These links run strong and deep. I think too of young, optimistic and proud Ukrainians whom I taught in Ukraine in the early 2000s—of what horrors may now befall them and their families if Putin carries out further bloody and hostile acts.”
“I first thank the Minister for his courtesy and that of his officials in discussing the measures before us on a number of occasions over recent weeks, and I pay tribute to the FCDO staff in country, who have been doing so much in difficult circumstances. He can be assured that, as we spoke as one earlier on the overall response to the aggression of Putin’s Russian regime, we speak as one in wanting these measures to succeed, and we in the official Opposition support the principle of them today. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) said in opening the debate, we sit in this Chamber with “dark clouds gathering over Europe”. We must be in no doubt about the clear and present danger not only to the sovereignty, territorial integrity and people of Ukraine, but to the rest of Europe.”
“There will be others who are much better placed to make the technical and legal arguments and distinctions than I can, but if we put those principles at the heart of this debate, remembering that we are talking about people’s real lives and existence—people who have suffered and suffer incredibly every day and every week—we could help to make this place and this country a better place for all trans and non-binary people.”
“A number of Members who were present at that event are here today. The most crucial thing that we did was to listen to people’s actual experiences—to the candour and frankness that parents expressed about some of the challenges they had been through, and to some of the challenges that the young people had been through. We just listened to what they had to say; we did not judge. The overwhelming feeling in that room was a sense of love, care and support.”
“The crimes against trans people have increased significantly over the past five years, and that is not just down to increased willingness to report. It is a fact. I have had trans constituents come to me to tell me about horrific experiences that they have had, alongside many other people who are experiencing such things in their daily lives. As I said, the actual issues and challenges that people face in their lives are being put to one side. I held an event in Parliament a couple of years ago—in fact, I was very nervous to hold it, because some of the things that happen whenever someone speaks out—with the trans and non-binary community, but for me it was one of the most powerful events in this area because it was with young trans and non-binary people, and their parents.”
“These people are real people; they are not represented in this part of the room today. Their voices are not going to be heard, although I am sure that many people here will speak up for them. I will start by sharing a couple of reflections based on my conversations with people in the trans and non-binary community. One concern is that there has been a very unfortunate and at times vicious debate, while the actual needs of trans and non-binary people—physical health, mental health, access to public services and access to legal equality—have not been considered. There are so many issues, including the experience of hate crime, which has significantly increased, as indeed it has against all protected characteristics, and against all women and young people; we have seen horrific incidents.”
“I hope that we will see those reforms come to fruition, because they are what trans and non-binary people, and their allies, are requesting, and I believe they are what is needed to ensure that trans and non-binary people can live their lives with freedom, dignity and respect. Of course, such reforms sit within a huge range of issues that affect the lives of trans and non-binary people, as the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington pointed out at the start of the debate. I am sorry that in the debate on these issues over the last couple of years in particular, their actual lives and lived experiences have been used by some as a wedge issue and by some as a form of ridicule, or simply reduced to academic or philosophical debate—or worse, as the hon. Gentleman pointed out, to a couple of words on Twitter.”
“I am glad that our party is committed to ensuring that trans and non-binary people can live their lives with equality, dignity and respect, and I am proud of my own Government—the Welsh Government—for the unequivocal support they have given for trans and non-binary rights and for reform of the GRA, and for consideration of the very matters that are under consideration in this debate today. Obviously, the Welsh Government do not have some of those powers; they have expressed their concerns about the failure to bring forward the reforms that were promised in the past by the UK Government.”
“It is a pleasure, Sir George, to serve under your chairpersonship. I will only make a brief contribution, because I have expressed my views on this issue many times in this place, although I do not think we have had enough debates on issues around the real lived experiences of trans and non-binary people. I think we ought to have more debates on those issues, and conduct them in the civilised and courteous way suggested by the petition’s promoter, the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn). I will start—helpfully, I hope—by giving some context.”
“One of the biggest problems is that there is not a courteous and respectful debate about the technical and legal issues, but rather one driven to ridicule, hurt or actively undermine the position of people who exist, are living their lives, and simply want to get on with their lives with dignity and respect. I urge all those with strong views on this issue to think about the impact, because I do not want to have, as I have had, constituents who are trans and non-binary people ringing me up in tears about the latest headline that they have seen in the newspaper, or the latest abusive row on Twitter or social media. We should just let people be who they want to be, respect that, give them dignity and show the love, compassion and respect that all human beings deserve, whatever their gender identity or sexuality.”