Stephen Doughty
MP for Cardiff South and Penarth · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to set out the situation, the threats and the impact on our economy. Across this House, we share a desire to get the strait reopened.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his sustained and continued advocacy on behalf of his constituent, which is deeply powerful. I know it is of concern to many Members across this House. Despite some progress in Mr Johal’s legal proceedings, eight of the cases against him remain outstanding.”
“I share the hon. Gentleman’s horror at some of the things we have seen going on in those illegal settlements, and we have absolutely condemned the settler violence—the settler terrorism—that we have seen.”
“I pay tribute to our Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office consular teams, particularly for their current work on the Nepal-China flooding crisis. It is also important to pay tribute to the work they do to support the thousands of British nationals who are arrested or detained abroad each year.”
“If I may, Mr Speaker, I want to start by acknowledging the devastating floods in Nepal. I know many Members are supporting constituents who have been affected by this tragedy, and our intention remains to support British nationals and the people of Nepal.”
“The right hon. Gentleman raises important cases. I can assure him that we continue to support the clemency applications of Ryan Cornelius and Charles Ridley and to raise their case with the UAE authorities. In fact, I did so recently; the former Foreign Secretary did so as well and has met the families. As the right hon.”
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“I welcome these orders and agree that they should be taken together. We will not be opposing them. I welcome the support that they indicate for tackling poverty and disease and removing the burden of debt in Africa and elsewhere across the world. However, in the context of the Prime Minister’s announcement earlier this week and the urgent question answered by the Foreign Secretary today, it is very important that we recognise that the decision taken will have an impact on our relationship with the African Development Bank and the World Bank institutions, including IDA.”
“We will not oppose these orders today, but I reiterate that the speech that I had hoped to make, which would have been full of positivity and support for the measures, has unfortunately been tempered by the announcement by the Prime Minister earlier this week and the many unanswered questions, particularly in relation to our influence and role in institutions such as the African Development Bank, IDA and the World Bank. I fear that the past global leadership that we have shown—for example, on debt relief—may now be in jeopardy.”
“Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) was a strong supporter of that campaign, which happened in the run-up to the historic Gleneagles G8 summit. It was a true example of what global leadership can achieve both for our country and for our fellow human beings. The multilateral debt relief initiative was one of the proudest achievements of the last Labour Government, and it has enabled us to make substantial progress towards the global goals—both the millennium development goals and their successor, the sustainable development goals. Will the Minister tell us how much debt UK support has enabled IDA and the African Development Bank to cancel over the recent accounting period and what expectations he has in relation to these orders, given the changed global economic output?”
“Reform is crucial with these institutions, so it is crucial that we continue to seek these reforms. The multilateral aid review rated the African Development Bank and IDA as good—very good, in some cases—but there are areas where they were ranked as weak. Will the Minister say a little bit about how he is going to use our position on the boards of both those institutions to continue to push a reform agenda? On debt relief, it is almost 15 years ago to the week that I helped to co-ordinate the historic march of a quarter of million people around the streets of Edinburgh in a white band as part of the Make Poverty History movement, which called for life-changing aid, debt cancellation and justice. I know that the right hon.”
“We could learn much from that, but it is also clear that there are going to be substantial short, medium and long-term challenges. Global solidarity and support—for example, through this funding and replenishment—is not only a moral duty, but in our common global interests. Will the Minister say a little bit about what he understands about how both IDA and the African Development Bank will seek to focus their programming to deal not only with the immediate short-term needs—obviously there have been substantial changes, which he mentioned, particularly in relation to IDA—but with long-term needs? Has he had discussions with them about how they might facilitate investments that support the roll-out of any vaccine treatments and critical medical supplies on an equitable basis?”
“That is also the case when we look at who is affected within countries because, as in this country, covid-19 is often a disease of poverty and disadvantage. The worst affected are likely to be the low paid; the marginalised; women and girls; those in conditions exposing them to greater risk, such as care workers, workers in health services, people who provide security, food processing and transport, and those who work in places with low ambient temperatures and poor ventilation such as ships and prisons; and, of course, people who live in the slums and dense settlements that we see in many locations across the global south. I have been impressed and inspired by the clear and growing African solidarity and leadership on tackling the virus, as in so many other things.”
“Over the past few weeks, my Labour colleagues and I have met and been listening to senior experts and African voices from the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, the World Health Organisation and other national agencies and Governments and, indeed, workers on the frontline in countries from Sierra Leone to Zimbabwe. Some of the stories that they have shared with me have obviously been of great concern, and I have discussed those with the Minister. The effects of covid-19 are already having a significant impact on the continent. That impact is on health—whether directly or indirectly—but also on the economic prospects and stability of many countries and regions, although it appears to be diverse and heterogeneous across the continent.”
“I want to ask a specific question about the World Bank’s private sector arm, the International Finance Corporation, because that has delivered a proportionate share of its profits as grants to IDA in the past, but in the past few years we have seen the pattern reverse, with IDA now effectively helping to fund IFC shortfalls. I understand that in 2020 it will be a net recipient of $2 billion-worth of IDA-financing-supported investments. How does the Minister expect IFC returns to be further affected by the global economic crisis relating to the pandemic, and does he expect them therefore to be a greater draw on IDA resources even than was perhaps expected for the year ahead? I have already mentioned one example of a programme that helps Ethiopia prepare for and mitigate the impacts of covid 19.”
“On the IDA part of the World Bank—a crucial institution, in which we have played a key role in over many decades—for every £1 of grant finance that the United Kingdom and other donors put in, IDA is expected to deliver more than £3 in development commitments for its clients, and we remain one of the largest donors—in fact, the largest donor in 2019. with an appropriate share of the budget. Can the Minister outline how we will seek to ensure that IDA programmes focus on issues like climate change, public health and education, and women and girls. Given some of the discussions that the Minister and I have had about fragile states, what focus will the new funding round have on investment in those? What performance-related measures will be taken in relation to the replenishment?”
“On development for women and girls, we were very happy to see that 80% of the new African Development Bank operations were categorised as having gender-informed design; of course, developments cannot succeed without economic development, health and education for women and girls. So will the Minister and his Department continue to negotiate with the African Development Bank and ADF to ensure that funds go to women-led and women-and-girl-directed programmes? I also understand that the pledge rightly includes an element of performance-based funding dependent on positive results reported at the mid-term review, so will he clarify how much was disbursed or held back at the same point in the last replenishment round? It is important that we hold these institutions fully to account.”
“Turning to the two specific institutions and the replenishments, the record of global Britain in action is reflected in a history of partnership with the African Development Bank, and we have contributed over many years to programmes and initiatives such as the African water facility, the Congo basin forest fund, the sustainable energy fund for Africa and, indeed, the actions on covid that I have just described in Ethiopia. The Minister spoke about the “high five” focus points of the African Development Bank—power Africa, integrate Africa, feed Africa, industrialise Africa and improve the quality of life in Africa—and I hope that he, in his remarks, can confirm that that will continue to be a UK priority for our role in those funds.”
“So can the Minister confirm who will determine the future role of executive directors at the World Bank and the African Development Bank, and who will they take their orders and policy steer from in future? Will they still have the same mandate to focus efforts on poverty reduction, or do we risk seeing them go the way of, for example, the badly run Newton Fund, overseen by a non-DFID Department, which was recently criticised heavily by the Independent Commission for Aid Impact and the Sub-Committee on the Work of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact—and indeed the Chair of that Sub-Committee, the hon. Member for Stafford (Theo Clarke), who is not in the Chamber at the moment, but I know takes a keen interest in these matters?”
“The UK role on the boards of the multilateral financial institutions has often been such that we have been able to influence the direction of those institutions, which have not always had the right focus or agenda, for the better. The former Secretary of State will know that well; I know he took a keen interest in these matters, and I am sure the Minister does, too, and I, too, have seen that at first hand. I want pay tribute to the officials and successive Ministers across the parties that have seen Britain’s role as one for global good in these institutions, contributing to multilateral action, so that we can achieve a bigger impact than the mere sum of our parts. That very much, for me, was global Britain in action, and not the Britain that I fear we now seem to be heading towards.”
“Indeed, and it did strike me as very odd and very concerning, and it will no doubt have been noted with concern in the capitals of many of those countries that we have enjoyed strong partnerships with for many years. On that note, can the Minister assure our partners in countries across Africa, and indeed across the developing world, including Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia, that we will continue to partner with them and their citizens, to tackle the coronavirus pandemic and continue our long-term work to tackle poverty, disease and inequality, tackle gender injustice and urgently deal with the climate change crisis?”
“Given that these orders are made under the International Development Act 2002, does the Government have any plans to change or amend that Act given the importance of all these orders being focused on poverty eradication?”
“I thank my hon. Friend for the powerful way in which she makes these crucial points. Does she agree that the approach taken by my constituency colleague and the Welsh Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething, on the disproportionate impact of these issues on BAME communities—we have seen tragic deaths in my constituency, too—has been in stark contrast to the approach taken by the UK Government? Vaughan Gething has understood this issue, and led on it from the start.”
“Penblwydd hapus, Mr Speaker. The UK’s Commonwealth Development Corporation does important work, but deeply concerning evidence has come to light, thanks to the work of Finance Uncovered, regarding CDC investments in Myanmar, including $30 million in an internet service provider called Frontiir, which, on the orders of the Myanmar Government, has blocked independent news sites reporting on atrocities taking place against the Rohingya. Will the Secretary of State now urge CDC to immediately divest from this company? Is she sure that none of the other microfinance programmes being supported is indirectly helping the Myanmar regime?”
“The Minister spoke a moment ago about accommodating reality. May I urge her to accommodate reality on the supply of crucial medicines and other supplies to our NHS rather than false hopes and aspirations, which have not served us well in the current crisis? The pharmaceutical industry said, in an internal memo provided to the Government in May, that after the pandemic ends there will be: “less or zero product available in the market to allow for stockpiling of a broad range of products.” Who is right: the pharmaceutical industry or the Minister?”
“The Lord Chancellor mentions the importance of speed in dealing with these situations. Does he agree that we have perhaps not moved fast enough in, for example, proscribing some organisations? I am thinking particularly of extreme right-wing organisations that target the black community, other people of colour, the Jewish community and the gay community. It took years to get System Resistance Network and Sonnenkrieg Division banned by the Government, and there are other organisations out there, such as the Order of Nine Angles, that need to be banned. Does he agree that we need to move further and faster on proscription so that people involved in those organisations can receive the sentences that he is talking about in this legislation?”
“The Lord Chancellor is being incredibly generous in giving way. He will be aware of the tragic circumstances in which young people in my constituency were recruited to Daesh/ISIS, and that the perpetrator of neo-Nazi actions a couple of years ago in Grangetown was only 19. It is right to focus on issues that relate to young people, but will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say a little more about the specialist probation officers, and about what training skills they will be given to look at the increasingly sophisticated way that some of these individuals engage online? As he said, they might be superficially engaging in face-to-face conversations, but then having a completely different set of conversations online, including through gaming platforms.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way, and I completely agree with his comments. Does he agree that the particular threat we face from far-right organisations is put in stark relief for us by the fact that we have just passed the 21st anniversary of the London nail bombings, which were done by an individual who targeted the black community in Brixton, the Bengali community in the east end and then the LGBT community at the Admiral Duncan pub. The trial judge at the time said it was unlikely that he would ever be able to be released safely, given the awfulness of the crimes he committed. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is why we need to go after these organisations, such as the Order of Nine Angles and others who have the same ideology?”
“Was she involved in that discussion? Was the Transport Secretary involved? And who overruled whom about taking action?”
“As with care homes, I fear that the failure to act when it could have made a difference will be one of the great tragedies of this crisis when the inevitable inquiries follow. The Home Secretary keeps saying that she was following the science and that the science was consistent, but the chief scientific adviser to the Government said to the Health and Social Care Committee on 5 May that the UK got “many, many different imports of virus” that seeded right the way across the country as early as March. If that is the case, why did the Government let in 23.7 million passengers, many of whom were British returning from hotspots abroad between 1 January and 31 March? Why were measures not put in place earlier, and will she now not only publish the advice, but tell us whether it is true that SAGE first discussed this matter on 3 February?”
“There are indeed some important measures in the Bill, and we will undoubtedly scrutinise them in more detail in due course. I thank the Secretary of State for the work of the officials in his Department to support a number of businesses in my constituency, and I thank the Welsh Government for the support that they have provided through the economic resilience fund. We have not had enough support from the banks, some of which have not only struggled to make themselves available to businesses seeking support through the loan schemes that the Government have set up but seem to be trying to push off their books businesses that could make it through the crisis. What does the Secretary of State have to say to the banks?”
“I agree with all that my right hon. Friend has said. Does he agree that some extension will be needed for some of the sectors that may be hit for longer, such as the creative industries? Many in my own patch will be affected for longer because they will be closed down for longer, and they need special assistance.”
“My right hon. Friend is right to mention steel and aerospace in particular, as they are crucial providers of jobs in south Wales, and we have the situations with BA and with the steel industry. Does he agree that we need to get support to them as soon as possible?”
“The Minister will know that there are 1.2 million extra people on the registers across all four nations of the United Kingdom since they were done for the last boundary review; that is really good news. Given that huge increase, will she consider using the December 2019 date for the register, rather than a date in 2020, which would see the number drop because we are not able to run the canvasses across the country?”
“Will the Minister therefore urge the boundary commissions to use common sense? In the most recent review, for example, they did not take into account many sensible things. In the proposals, the Cardiff bay barrage in my constituency was split between three different constituencies. Previous reviews had listened sensibly to different geographical requirements, and things like the most recent proposals simply do not make sense.”
“What discussions he has had with his counterparts from the (a) devolved Administrations, (b) other administrations of the UK and (c) Republic of Ireland to facilitate (i) co-operation and (ii) mutual aid during the covid-19 outbreak.”
“The contact tracing app that the UK Government are developing is apparently different from the one that the Irish Government are advocating, which may create significant difficulties not only on the island of Ireland but in relation to travel to and from the rest of the UK via, for example, Welsh, Scottish and English ports. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government on the proposed app, and what would he advise people in Northern Ireland to do?”
“My constituents repeatedly express frustration to me that the UK Government’s press conferences and briefings to the media do not make clear the distinction in policy on this between England and Wales, which is causing confusion and anxiety. Will the Secretary of State make it clear for the UK media and Welsh teachers and parents that the decision to reopen schools is for the Welsh Government, that schools will not reopen in Wales on 1 June and that they rightly will not do so until it is safe for children and teachers?”
“We have only to look at the R rate, which the Prime Minister said potentially stood at 2.8 in April, to understand how many people they could have infected. This applies even to those transiting places such as Heathrow, where they will have encountered other passengers, border staff and others without PPE and without provisions. The chief scientific adviser to the Government, Sir Patrick Vallance, said on 5 May that “the UK got many, many different imports of the virus from many different places…So we see a big influx of cases, probably from Italy and Spain…in early March seeded right the way across the country.” So was it incompetence? Was it confusion? Was it a conscious decision? Or did we just give up? We need to understand how these decisions were taken, and on what scientific basis.”
“So if these measures are important—and I believe they are—why are we waiting for them? Why have we not got a date for them to be introduced, and why were they not introduced before? We need to understand the scientific basis if we are to understand what has been going on and how these decisions were taken. We have received a letter today that has been published by the chief scientific adviser to the Home Office. It talks about a 0.5% prevalence in the population and about a one in 1,000 prevalence globally, but that simply does not add up. If there is a one in 1,000 prevalence globally, that means that 18,100 of the 18.1 million individuals who entered this country without so much as a whiff of hand sanitiser were potentially infected.”
“There is no clarity on when or how these measures are coming in or on the scientific basis for any of the specifics, such as the French exception, which seems to be easily circumvented. We need a workable practical plan if these measures are needed for public health, which I believe they are, but the big question is: why were they not introduced before? Home Office figures released to me and the Home Affairs Committee show that 18.1 million people entered this country between 1 January and 23 March, and I understand that more than 100,000 have entered the country since the lockdown was instituted on 23 March. Out of all those, just 273 individuals on four flights were subject to formal quarantine measures. Three of the flights were from Wuhan and one was from Tokyo and contained passengers from the Diamond Princess.”
“Many other outstanding questions are not being answered, such as whether furlough will be extended to fields that are shut down for longer, and indeed the question about support for new starters. We need co-operation between the nations, but that means Cobra meeting, and it means conversations between the Prime Minister and the First Ministers of the devolved nations. I understand that Cobra is now meeting just twice a month in its full format. Surely that is not good enough. I will now turn to a second major issue, borders and quarantine. I am afraid that yet again we have seen utter confusion from the Prime Minister, for future travellers, for airlines and for other transport providers.”
“The Prime Minister today tried to brush off the concerns expressed by those in Wales as “hypothetical”. No, they are practical reality, and the concerns of my constituents and many others. Like many constituents across this country, mine are trying to do the right thing, and they need clarity, precision and detail, not bluff and bluster. They are asking questions. What if I live in Wales, but work in England or on both sides of the border? Can home moves go across the border? What about schools? They are hearing the message about 1 June, but that does not apply in Wales; schools are not going to reopen on 1 June. There are differences in the safety rules: in Wales, 2 metres in workplaces is in the regulations; in England, it is not.”
“May I first associate myself with the sincerely meant comments from those on both Front Benches about the devastating loss of life and about the incredible work of our NHS and social care workers? I believe that we should take a precautionary approach given the evidence at the moment, and that the “stay at home” message being used by Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland is the right one. It is a matter of deep regret to me that the Prime Minister has now confused that. If my Facebook Live sessions are anything to go by—I hold them every night with my constituents in Cardiff South and Penarth—the Prime Minister’s statement last night was about as clear as mud. It led to more questions than answers, and I fear it is going to lead to more infections and more anxiety.”
“One of my excellent local pubs in Grangetown in Cardiff has paid substantial sums for insurance but is now facing difficulties making a claim with the firm RSA, which made more than £7 billion of revenue in 2018. Internationally, it is clear that we face a massive crisis—it is not just in this country—and the only way to approach it is multilaterally. That is in our national interest as well. We must maintain such levels and ambitions for co-ordinated action as the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown and others have argued for, lest we see economic and financial contagion rebound on us and the ability of our economy to come out of this. We need support through liquidity injections, debt relief and the maintenance of aid and investment flows. That will be in the interests of us all in the future.”
“I urge the Chancellor to listen closely to the trade unions and others who are exposing the issues that they are facing. The issue of those who pay themselves through a small number of dividends has also been highlighted. I have been contacted by local companies affected by that; indeed, I was approached by one business of that type just today. Many such firms are weeks away from folding after burning through their cash reserves and finding little support. Insurance companies have been mentioned. The Association of British Insurers and others need to start acting in the interests of the economy and in the spirit of these difficult times.”
“There is also an issue facing those who did not have an employer from 28 February onwards, who therefore do not have an employer to furlough them, and who are ineligible for the self-employment income support scheme as they pay their tax by PAYE. The Chancellor needs to take steps to support those individuals. There are also major issues affecting the newly self-employed, who do not have access to the support systems because the system does not allow for 2019-20 tax returns, and who have no employer to furlough them. What can the Government do to support those in that group, who seem to be falling through the gaps? I have also heard from many in the taxi and private hire industry, which is facing particular strictures, who also need support.”
“It is simply not good enough, and I hope the Chancellor will crack down on UK Finance and its members. A particular concern that I have encountered is the issues facing the creative industries, particularly pay-as-you-earn freelancers. A Musicians’ Union survey of over 1,000 musicians shows that 38% of respondents do not qualify for the Government’s assistance schemes, with one in five saying the problems caused by coronavirus may force them to abandon their career as a musician in the long term. One of the issues appears to be whether people were on the RTI—realtime information—submissions scheme to HMRC in time. I would argue that we should use the end of March RTI, to include freelancers on contracts who started before 19 March.”
“The Wales Millennium Centre has benefited from the furlough scheme, but it seems likely that restrictions on theatre and mass gatherings will be among the last to be lifted, so will the job retention scheme be extended to cover the whole closure period? The hon. Member for Wellingborough, who spoke before me, was absolutely right to highlight the reality of the CBILS scheme. I am finding very similar issues, with banks making themselves inaccessible even to phone calls, let alone giving the loans that businesses have needed. I have had businesses refused on viability grounds, which in one case was apparently based on poorer than expected performance for the last two years during the Brexit uncertainty. Despite a significant upturn since last year, that business has had a loan refused.”
“The Welsh and UK Governments must also work together to support major anchor industries, including the steel and creative industries, which are crucial in my constituency, whether it is Celsa Steel or our world-beating film and TV production companies. Immediate support is needed, but beyond that it is also important to ensure support for the UK Steel Charter, for example, and its procurement principles. I heard today from the internationally renowned Wales Millennium Centre—it is currently displaying in its window a huge “Diolch yn fawr NHS” sign to say thank you—which has an annual economic impact of over £70 million locally and sustains over 1,000 jobs.”
“The Welsh Government’s £500 million economic resilience fund, part of over £1.7 billion of support, has been intended to fill as many gaps as possible in the financial support for businesses. Since it opened to applications, it has received almost 9,000 requests for support, which is evidence of the scale of demand. The Development Bank of Wales is also making real money available to businesses and processing applications faster and more efficiently than many of the high street banks—a point that I will come to, and which the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) exposed. Although I welcome the Chancellor’s announcements today on smaller loans, I note that the Welsh Government have already stepped in with grants for micro-businesses, including start-ups.”
“This Finance Bill provides opportunities to address those challenges, and it is absolutely right, as the shadow Chancellor and others have done, to set out the challenges that apply equally at home and globally, whether that is keeping people in jobs and incomes, getting cash to, and ensuring liquidity for, struggling businesses to enable them to keep jobs now and recover quicker later, or preventing a slide into devasting poverty and deeper inequality by providing the right safety nets. I praise the work of our Welsh Labour Government here in Wales and my local councils in Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan for the speed and effort they have shown in responding to the crisis, getting cash out of the door and into the hands of those who need it.”
“Like that of my hon. Friends and many across the House, my primary aim today is to highlight the reality on the ground in our economy in constituencies such as Cardiff South and Penarth. It is clear that this unprecedented crisis has shown up the historic strengths and weaknesses of our economy and society, the fragility of our global trade and supply links, and the fact that we have for far too long undervalued many of those who are the lifeblood of our economy and society, including our incredible NHS, care and key workers and our small and micro-businesses.”
“What steps he is taking to ensure that procurement of (a) personal protective equipment, (b) medical appliances and (c) testing kits in response to the covid-19 outbreak operates effectively between the UK and Welsh Governments.”
“Eight hundred companies in Wales are now in touch with the Welsh Government to help to supply critical PPE and other supplies, including a major manufacturing firm in my constituency. Like many other Welsh firms, they want to help across the UK and use the strength of our Union, so why has it taken the same firm over two and a half weeks to get an answer back from the UK Government, with as yet no order placed and only after an intervention by me? Will the Secretary of State work with me to unblock that unacceptable delay?”
“May I, through the Home Secretary, thank the National Police Chiefs’ Council and our senior police officers? We had an extremely reassuring brief from them at the Home Affairs Committee the other day, and I thank them for all they are doing. Will the Home Secretary say a little about ensuring that personal protective equipment is available not only to police forces across the country but to our Border Force? We had very worrying evidence from the ISU, the immigration service union, about actions its members are having to undertake without any equipment at all. Can she provide some reassurance?”
“Will the Leader of the House urgently arrange a statement, written or otherwise, to clarify the situation?”