Stephen Doughty
MP for Cardiff South and Penarth · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to set out the situation, the threats and the impact on our economy. Across this House, we share a desire to get the strait reopened.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his sustained and continued advocacy on behalf of his constituent, which is deeply powerful. I know it is of concern to many Members across this House. Despite some progress in Mr Johal’s legal proceedings, eight of the cases against him remain outstanding.”
“I share the hon. Gentleman’s horror at some of the things we have seen going on in those illegal settlements, and we have absolutely condemned the settler violence—the settler terrorism—that we have seen.”
“I pay tribute to our Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office consular teams, particularly for their current work on the Nepal-China flooding crisis. It is also important to pay tribute to the work they do to support the thousands of British nationals who are arrested or detained abroad each year.”
“If I may, Mr Speaker, I want to start by acknowledging the devastating floods in Nepal. I know many Members are supporting constituents who have been affected by this tragedy, and our intention remains to support British nationals and the people of Nepal.”
“The right hon. Gentleman raises important cases. I can assure him that we continue to support the clemency applications of Ryan Cornelius and Charles Ridley and to raise their case with the UAE authorities. In fact, I did so recently; the former Foreign Secretary did so as well and has met the families. As the right hon.”
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“The hon. Gentleman spoke a moment ago about families. I believe in this family as well, and I believe in the United Kingdom staying together. The problem is that in families, without respect or communication things go pretty wrong. Does he think it was acceptable for the UK Government only to share the contents of the Bill with the Welsh Government the night before it was published? Does he think that that fosters the type of familial relationship that he so espouses?”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to those comments by a very honourable man, one of my constituents, David Melding, the shadow Counsel General, a lifelong and loyal Conservative with whom I disagree on many issues. However, he was pointing out the pattern of behaviour from the Government of disrespect for devolution. I have just been speaking to the First Minister of Wales, and he has been clear this is a pattern of behaviour in everything from covid testing to the situation regarding the Bill. Does she agree that the Government need to take a completely different approach if they want the UK internal market to work, as we do?”
“The Minister is doing his best job to front this up and to give some of the detail that the Prime Minister was not across yesterday, but does he not have the slightest bit of doubt when his own colleague, the legal representative on the Welsh Conservative Benches in the Senedd, David Melding, has resigned saying that this Bill poses dangers to the Union and that those have been gravely aggravated by the decisions of the Prime Minister? When somebody of that standing has criticised the Bill in this way, does the Minister not have any qualms about what he is doing?”
“I am listening carefully to what the Prime Minister is saying, but why did one of his own distinguished Members describe his policy this week as “Nixonian Madman Theory”? Is the Prime Minister not deeply worried that his policies and approach are being compared to those of the disgraced former US President Richard Nixon, rather than someone like Winston Churchill?”
“I know that there are many Conservative women and men of courage who say things in the corridors of this place. The question is whether they will stand by their consciences in the vote tonight.”
“We ask Iran to abide by its nuclear commitments, the Communist party of China to adhere to the Sino-British joint declaration, and Russia to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine or take responsibility for poisoning its citizens or using chemical weapons on the soil of this country. We rightly supported the prosecution of those who committed genocide in Bosnia and Rwanda, and now the same applies to the Rohingya and the Uyghurs. This goes well beyond Brexit. We all have our views on Brexit and the Prime Minister’s failure to produce an oven-ready deal. It is about Britain and the type of country we want to be: whether we want to be one that upholds the rule of law and standards, and stands as a beacon for democracy and rule of law in the world, or whether we want to become a pariah.”
“and learned Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright). Clauses 42, 43 and 45 are, in his words, not a clarification, but a contradiction, not only of our commitment to international law, but of the very principle of the rule of law, for which Britain has stood as a beacon for many centuries. That saw us being instrumental in the founding of the United Nations, which has its 75th anniversary this year. The first General Assembly took place across the square from here. We stood for the rule of law in the establishment of the global human rights regime, the International Criminal Court and a rules-based financial and trading system, let alone the defence of our own interests from the Falklands to Gibraltar.”
“On Northern Ireland specifically, let us not forget that it was this Prime Minister who personally negotiated with the Taoiseach on the Wirral and gave his word to the Taoiseach and all the communities of Northern Ireland, so to renege on those commitments now is both dangerous and devoid of moral principle, quite apart from the fact that it also imperils the Government’s stated wider goals for so-called global Britain, such as a US trade deal. As Nancy Pelosi said, “What were they thinking?” All the chumminess of the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster with President Trump will not circumvent the United States Congress. The other fundamental issue at stake is international law and the rule of law. I commend what was said by the former Attorney General, the right hon.”
“I am a Unionist. I believe that we are stronger together and I want a functioning UK internal market, but it must be one that is based on respect, on partnership and on consent—the very principles that underpinned the devolution settlement that I and my party have proudly supported for the past few decades. That settlement respects our different histories, cultures, languages and perspectives, but couples those with the pooled benefits of working together. To undermine and disrespect that settlement, which is underpinned by multiple referendums and the Good Friday agreement, is both a breach of trust and deeply dangerous.”
“I absolutely agree with that point. Does my hon. Friend agree that offshoring carbon emissions to China, Turkey and Iran is exactly the way we do not want to go, when we can make that steel in this country in green ways?”
“There was deep disappointment among my constituents about the Government’s decision not to vote for the extremely reasonable amendments to the Fire Safety Bill. Beyond Government action, will the hon. Gentleman find time for an urgent debate about the responsibility of original building developers and the insurance industry? Companies such as Taylor Wimpey, Laing O’Rourke, Redrow and others are simply not living up to their responsibilities when fire safety and other building defects are found—as they have been in my own constituency.”
“My hon. Friend is making a crucial argument. She will know just how many jobs are under threat in south Wales, particularly at British Airways in the Vale of Glamorgan, and at other aerospace companies. Does she agree that the Government need not only to take action on jobs now, but to offer support to help young people training at Cardiff and Vale College for future careers in aerospace and green aviation? The Government need to give them some hope, as well as saving jobs now.”
“My hon. Friend starts absolutely with the crux of the matter. She will be aware that, in my own constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth, we have thousands of residents in apartment blocks who are affected by these issues. The failure of companies such as Redrow, Laing O’Rourke and Taylor Wimpey to hold to their responsibilities for fire safety and other building defects is a huge problem. Does she agree that they need to take responsibility for mistakes that they may have made in construction?”
“My hon. Friend is making a very good point about new clause 1 and the responsibilities. Would he accept that there is a significant responsibility for the original developers, architects and those involved in construction—I mentioned Laing O’Rourke, Taylor Wimpey, Redrow and others—to make sure that they are providing and have available the original construction diagrams of buildings? We have had a huge problem in Cardiff South and Penarth of not being able to get hold of those and then very expensive testing having to be done. Of course, the cost is then passed on to leaseholders, on top of the bills they may face for rectifying these problems in the first place.”
“It is good to see the Secretary of State learning not only from the future jobs fund example but the Jobs Growth Wales example set by the Welsh Labour Government over the past few years. It is so crucial that this leads to long-term employment, not just temporary employment, so will she agree to work closely with the Welsh Government to dovetail this scheme with the existing Jobs Growth Wales scheme, the apprenticeship scheme, the traineeship scheme and the ReAct scheme, which are already in place, to ensure that there is a full package for young people in particular to stay in work? Will she look again at the 30-person limit? SMEs are a much bigger part of the economy in Wales and we need to ensure that they are able to benefit as much as they can from the scheme.”
“While I welcome the order, there is a clear case for proscribing a number of other organisations, including the Order of Nine Angles, for the Government to move much faster on this, and for tackling the way that these organisations operate online.”
“Stephen Yaxley-Lennon regularly uses Telegram, and these very extreme organisations use it as well. The Government simply have not acted. Channels in the gaming world are being used to recruit and encourage young men in particular. We have seen some disturbing examples of that in south Wales, where individuals have been interdicted. I have seen it in my own community, where an individual was recently convicted for involvement in the System Resistance Network and Sonnenkrieg Division. He spread vile Nazi graffiti around Cardiff South and Penarth, encouraging people to join their local Nazis, with some very advanced imagery being shared to recruit and radicalise individuals.”
“However, the reality is that the voluntary approach has not worked in tackling such organisations online. Every week it is easy to find information relating to these extreme organisations and their ideology. They are not hiding—they are active in plain sight, encouraging people down a dark, despicable well of hatred and on to other platforms where there are direct encouragements to murder, rape and attack minority groups and public figures. Let us not forget that these people want to attack the institutions of our state. They want to attack the police, our armed forces, public figures and those in the justice system because they believe them to be traitors to their sick and twisted ideologies. The Government must act on platforms such as Telegram, where many of these organisations are organising and sharing information.”
“But when evidence has been presented by HOPE not hate about the Order of Nine Angles and individuals have been convicted, the Government need to act, and they are not doing so quickly enough at the moment. The online world is a key factor in the way that these organisations groom, organise and spread their vile ideology. It is therefore deeply concerning to have heard in the last few weeks of potential further delays to the online harms Bill. The Government introduced the online harms White Paper, and there is much in it that many of us across the House agree with, particularly in relation to the use of online space by extremists in extreme right-wing organisations, Islamist organisations, organisations involved in terrorism in Northern Ireland and so on.”
“We saw a similar pattern with an organisation that has now been proscribed, and I raised that over many years with the Government, in private and public. The System Resistance Network and the Sonnenkrieg Division were effectively rebrands of National Action, which targeted a Member of this House with severe violence and threats of murder, for which individuals were convicted. I share the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens North (Conor McGinn) about the length of time that it is taking the Government to proscribe these organisations, even in the face of very clear, undisputed evidence about their activities. The system is simply moving too slowly. I know that the Minister has good intentions, and I know that many in the law enforcement community wish to see this move much more quickly.”
“We must not forget the London nail bomber—we were discussing the anniversary of that tragic event that targeted the black community, the Muslim community and the LGBT community with terror, violence and murder on our streets. The London nail bomber was a member of the National Socialist Movement. Such groups present a clear and present danger. HOPE not hate has identified how four people linked to that organisation in the past 12 months have been convicted, including individuals in this country and the United States, where a soldier was linked to providing classified information in order to be able to attack his own unit. Such groups also use the online world that the Minister spoke of in relation to FKD, using a disgusting channel, Rapewaffen, via the channel Telegram, to encourage disgusting sexual violence.”
“Friend the Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock), and other Members. We have also raised the matter in the House on a number of occasions, including in the past few weeks. I urge the Minister to look carefully at groups that are using similar tactics or ideologies, or pose a similar clear and present danger to the citizens of this country, and indeed globally. I commend the remarks about the Order of Nine Angles. That group was rightly raised by HOPE not hate, which does incredible work on this issue. The Order of Nine Angles is a Nazi satanist group that is deeply antisemitic and advocates the use of sexual violence and murder. It was founded by an individual who spent 50 years in satanism and in organisations such as the British Movement, Column 88, Combat 18, and the National Socialist Movement.”
“I wholeheartedly welcome this order and endorse the comments made by my hon. Friends and from the SNP Benches. Across the House, one thing we all have in common is the view that these groups are utterly despicable and need the strongest action to be taken against them. The tactics, ideology, and methods that the Minister rightly outlined in relation to FKD are deeply disturbing, and are unfortunately shared by a range of other organisations. While this order is welcome, the description that the Minister gave of antisemitism, racism and encouragement of attacks on minority groups, our police and public figures, as well as the use of the online world to groom and radicalise individuals into these organisations, is an all-too-familiar tale. I looked at this issue in great detail during my time on the Home Affairs Committee, alongside my hon.”
“My hon. Friend is making crucial points about the UK Government’s responsibilities in this area, and of course fire safety issues go well beyond the issue of cladding to matters such as compartmentation and other fire safety measures. Does my hon. Friend agree that the original developers of buildings also need to take a huge responsibility? In my constituency, Laing O’Rourke is refusing to engage with the Celestia development residents about fire safety issues that it is responsible for, and defects in the construction. Does my hon. Friend agree that developers must take their responsibilities seriously?”
“The Government’s policy seems to be one of abject hypocrisy. The Minister has made a false distinction between the sanctions on individuals and wider policy, which is simply not possible. Let me give him one example. General Ahmed al-Asiri was listed on the Foreign Secretary’s sanctions list last week for his involvement in the unlawful killing of Jamal Khashoggi and for commissioning the team that went to assassinate him. That is the same man who came to this House, this building, on 29 March 2017 to justify to me and many other Members the Saudi actions in Yemen, including the use of British military support. How can it be that we are sanctioning this individual for his unlawful actions and yet he was at the heart of the war in Yemen?”
“Member for Braintree (James Cleverly), said that he would speak “publicly and loudly” if the death sentences were confirmed today, have you had any notice of a statement from the Foreign Office on what it now plans to do? That might include raising this at the highest levels, including with the King, to urge clemency.”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You will recall the urgent question that Mr Speaker kindly granted to the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) last week, so I regret to inform you that Bahrain’s highest court has today, via Instagram, announced confirmation of the death sentences against Mohammed Ramadhan and Hussain Moosa, who were tortured. That is utterly unacceptable, and the risk that these sentences will be carried out is imminent. Not least given the UK’s direct support for the agencies implicated in the torture and forced confession of these men, and the fact that the Minister for the Middle East and North Africa, the right hon.”
“Will he publish the human rights assessments and the assessments against the overseas security and justice assistance guidance, which the Foreign Office is supposed to use when funding such programmes to assess whether the programmes it supports are implicated in torture and the use of the death penalt? It is one thing for the Foreign Secretary to speak of taking action against those complicit in torture and the death penalty, those who are blood-drenched, but it is another for the Government to walk the walk. Time is of the essence in this case. Will the Minister speak out? Will the Government speak out at the highest levels and do what they can to get the death sentences commuted?”
“In that light, will the Minister condemn the use of torture by the security forces in Bahrain in these two cases, rather than just monitoring them? Will the Prime Minister raise this matter with the King? Will the Minister raise it directly with his opposite number? Will he press the Government of Bahrain to establish an independent commission of inquiry to conduct an Istanbul protocol-compliant investigation into the torture allegations for these two men? Will he freeze assistance to the Bahraini security bodies that are potentially implicated in this case?”
“Worse still, the two Bahraini security bodies that enabled the torture—the Special Investigations Unit and the ombudsman for the Ministry of Interior—were funded by this Government. The Government say that they engage with the Bahraini Government on human rights, the use of torture and the death penalty, and I listened carefully to what the Minister said, but where are the results from that engagement, given this case and many others? Since 2012, the Government have provided over £5 million of technical assistance, yet the number of executions has increased and human rights abuses have increased. The Foreign Secretary spoke earlier this week about Magnitsky sanctions, absolutely rightly so, and the importance of human rights and opposing the death penalty and torture.”
“I commend the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) for his question on this crucial matter. The trial is based on evidence secured through torture, including allegations that interrogators threatened to rape the wife of Mohammed Ramadhan in front of him after a series of brutal beatings and hung Hussain Moosa from the ceiling for three days while beating his genitals with batons. Finally, they have been sentenced to death. Condemnation of the trials of these two men has been almost universal from many of the organisations to which the hon. Gentleman referred. All have condemned the use of torture and all have called for their death sentences to be quashed. Unfortunately, we have yet to see a decisive statement on this matter from the Government.”
“It was good to hear from the Leader of the House about the motion on terrorism on Wednesday. I hope that that is to ban one of the extreme right-wing organisations that a number of us have been campaigning on, such as the Order of Nine Angles, which should not be operating in this country. I have heard that there are significant delays proposed to the online harms Bill, which comes on the back of the Online Harms White Paper. Will he explain what the Government’s plans are to bring that forward? As we heard in a group meeting with the all-party group against antisemitism this week, many extreme right-wing organisations that have antisemitic, racist, Islamophobic and homophobic ideology are organising, recruiting and grooming new followers online.”
“Like many other Members, I met this morning members of ExcludedUK and people such as freelancers, many of whom are in the creative industries, who have fallen between the gaps of the different Government schemes. The package that has been announced for the creative industries is welcome, but what will the Government do to support the many thousands of people in those industries, including in Cardiff South and Penarth, who have fallen between the gaps?”
“I remind the Secretary of State about another virus: HIV. As chair of the all-party group on HIV/AIDS, I met colleagues from across both Houses this morning to hear about the impact of the covid-19 crisis on people with HIV in terms of mental health, access to treatment and many other issues, including the disproportionate impact on black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. Will the Health Secretary say what he has been doing specifically to support people with HIV? Will one of his Ministers meet the group to listen to our specific concerns?”
“The Prime Minister does not want to talk about the numbers of job losses, so let me give him some: British Airways, 12,000 jobs potentially to go, including in the Vale of Glamorgan, in Llantrisant and in Blackwood; GE, 1,400 jobs potentially to go at Nantgarw; Rolls-Royce, nearly 6,000 to go in Derby, Solihull, Glasgow, Rotherham; and, as my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the Opposition has pointed out, Airbus, with 1,700 jobs potentially to go in north Wales and in the south-west, affecting my own constituents. Workers at those plants do not want to hear slogans. They do not want to hear bluff and bluster. They want to know from the Prime Minister what he is going to do to save those jobs in the long term. They have had the furlough scheme; what is he going to do to protect them going forward?”
“Mr Speaker, “The breadth of the work that DFID is involved in is exemplary…It is firmly in our national interest…As we have seen in recent years with the Ebola crisis”. —[ Official Report , 13 June 2016; Vol. 611, c. 262.] Those are not my words, but those of the Minister. Destabilising Britain’s efforts to tackle disease globally in the middle of a pandemic is not diplomatic; it is dangerous, and the hostile takeover by the Foreign Secretary has been slammed by 200 leading health and humanitarian agencies, Prime Ministers and MPs from both sides of the House, and those who have assessed the impact of mergers in Australia and Canada. Why does she think she got it wrong, they all got it wrong, and instead, it is Dominic Cummings who is right?”
“The idea that this is about social mobility is for the birds. General Sir Richard Barrons, the former chief of Joint Forces Command and indeed a Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff, described this as “a move for ‘chumocracy’. Someone in Boris Johnson’s inner circle is being moved higher up the inner circle” He also said that “when it comes to matters of security, his knowledge is zero, and that is a matter of concern.” One of the key lessons from the Chilcot inquiry was the importance of speaking truth to power. How can a political appointee of this nature, part of the chumocracy, speak truth to power?”
“I wholeheartedly associate myself with the comments made by the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) about the armed forces, particularly this week. It is good to see questions being raised about the leasehold mis-selling scandal and to see other Members, on both sides, raise concerns about all sorts of issues that leaseholders face, particularly in major apartment blocks. May we therefore urgently have a comprehensive and full debate about the responsibilities of building developers and their liability for building defects, including in my constituency? Leaseholders are having to deal with a shabby situation. These issues often relate not just to fire safety, but to the actual construction of buildings, to water and to all sorts of other things. The situation is completely unacceptable.”
“With regard to Lords amendment 75, which extends the temporary provisions to 30 September, the Minister is absolutely right that a lot of businesses can survive this crisis, but they need these measures in place. They also need the packages of support from the Treasury alongside the legislative changes. The clock is ticking for many, particularly in the theatre and entertainment industry, the steel industry and others affected in my constituency. Does he agree that we need to see financial packages, too?”
“I entirely endorse the point my hon. Friend is making, particularly with regard to pension schemes, because we have seen the tragedy of where this has gone wrong, such as the Allied Steel and Wire pensions scandal in my constituency, which is still affecting people today, years afterwards. Does she agree that we need to take some of the lessons from this process into protections for pension schemes and pensioners, who are expecting, having paid in, that they will get out in due course?”
“It will not only have a life-threatening impact on the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people, but it will reduce our ability to make the world safer, fairer and better for all.”
“A former Conservative Secretary of State for International Development said: “Most British diplomats lack the experience and skills to manage 100 million pound development programs…Trying to pretend these two very different organisations are” the same “damages both.” Laurie Lee, the chief executive of Care International, said, “this is the worst decision on aid since the Pergau dam scandal” and “In the middle of a national crisis, the Prime Minister has chosen to spend time, focus and effort on fixing a problem which does not exist…it’s not too late…to think again.” This is not global Britain. This retreat from the global stage is a mistake, and we firmly oppose this attempt to abolish the Department.”
“Why did he not wait for the conclusion of the integrated review? Did the decision go through the National Security Council? Which civil society and development partners were consulted? How much will the reorganisation cost and what legislative changes are planned? Will the DFID budget be ring-fenced in the new Department? The Foreign Secretary also mentioned trade envoys. What role now for the Department for International Trade? Multiple former Prime Ministers, from both sides of the House, have criticised the decision.”
“We have had one of the highest death tolls from covid-19 in the world. Millions of children are out of school and face the worst unemployment crisis in a generation, which will hit young people and the lowest-paid the hardest; and these challenges are global, too. Instead, the Prime Minister has decided to undertake a large-scale restructure, which will cost millions of pounds of public money, and he will abolish a Department that is the most transparent, the most effective and a global champion at delivering value for money for British taxpayers. Instead, UK aid will be spent through Departments, which, TaxPayers Alliance found, “neither” contribute “to poverty reduction or the national interest.” So can the Foreign Secretary tell me: when did the Prime Minister decide this matter?”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) for her important urgent question. “The effectiveness with which DFID is able to deliver aid is because the Department has decades of honed experience in understanding the most effective and targeted ways of spending taxpayers’ money” —[ Official Report , 10 June 2020; Vol. 677, c. 276.] —not my words, but those of the Secretary of State for International Development, last week, who now appears to have simply been completely overruled. Scrapping a Department that is crucial to global vaccine development provides health care and aids the world’s poorest in the middle of a global pandemic is irresponsible and counterproductive and wrong. The Government should be totally focused on steering our country through the challenges we face right now.”
“But it has prepared us to fight the pandemic better than we would have been without the program, especially in the unserved rural communities.” That example highlights the sort of impact that the ADB and other funding the UK has provided to the multilaterals has had, not only on tackling covid but on tackling wider water and sanitation issues.”
“The bank and other partners’ funding has been supporting that ambitious national programme to serve 110 million people in Africa’s second most populous country. As well as the ADB, key partners include the World Bank, the Department for International Development, the Government of Finland and UNICEF. The programme has been embracing safe water development systems, including boreholes, hand pumps, diesel pumps, gravity pumps and electric grid power to bring safe, potable water to Ethiopians. Water Development Commissioner Mogesse said recently: “The One WASH National Program did not plan for the COVID-19 pandemic.”
“This is particularly concerning because Zambia and Tanzania have been supported by funds from the African Development Bank and IDA in the past, and of course by DFID’s bilateral programmes. They are both long-standing members of the Commonwealth and countries with which we have had very constructive partnerships over many decades. This is particularly relevant in relation to the impact of the covid-19 pandemic on Africa and elsewhere, which the Minister spoke about. He and I have discussed that issue outside the House. I want to thank him for the courtesy that he has shown me since my taking on this role in discussing a number of matters on which there is no division across this House. For example, the African Development Bank has been supporting the One WASH programme in Ethiopia.”
“Does the Minister agree that in fact, and by contrast to what the Prime Minister said earlier this week, by the majority of contexts there has always been close co-operation and co-ordination between the different arms of UK international policy, including in Africa, and in relation to the IDA part of the World Bank and its other institutions, as well as the African Development Bank? It has been particularly concerning, given that we are focusing so much on Africa in these orders, to see the false dichotomy that was set up by the Prime Minister’s comments. He spoke about Zambia and Tanzania, for example, and contrasted them with priorities in places like Ukraine and the Balkans.”
“It is sad to have to contrast the positive impact of these orders with some of the ill-informed rhetoric that we heard from the Prime Minister on Tuesday on a decision that fundamentally risks undermining our relationship and influence with IDA and the African Development Bank in terms of the impact and oversight of these replenishments and the debt relief. This decision has been criticised from many quarters, including by Members on both sides of the House and by some of the world’s leading experts. One of those, of course, is the former Prime Minister, David Cameron, who said that it “will mean less expertise, less voice for development at the top table”— that is, the top table of these institutions. Gayle Smith, the former administrator of USAID, also said that it was a dangerous step backwards.”