Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“Minister, I know from speaking to party colleagues that they very much appreciated your swift attendance at the scene of the flooding. Are there any other hotspot areas that have been brought to your attention where there may well be flood alleviation schemes already in the pipeline that, unfortunately, as Mr Beggs rightly pointed out, have been held up because there was no Stormont Executive and Assembly for the last three years?”
“Minister, like others, I thank you, and the staff throughout the health and social care system, for their hard work throughout the pandemic. I will ask about cancer services. I spoke yesterday to a young mother, who had a routine smear test last December, and has been told, within the last two weeks, that she has cancer. No date has yet been set for her surgery. You talked about restarting. What are the time lags between the routine diagnostic test, informing a person of the diagnosis and surgery? What measures, or confidence, can you give to people like this young mother, who faces such dreadful news?”
“I commend the Minister on his choice of the expert panel, but it strikes me that he already knows a lot of the answers and findings that it is going to publish. He, quite rightly and more than once, pointed out the link between underachievement and poverty and socio-economic background. Therefore, as regards the terms of reference for the expert panel, the cooperation and collaboration of other Departments — this will run across Health and Justice because of young offenders and looked-after children in particular — and the boarder links with the anti-poverty strategy, what comfort can he give the House about flexibility and cooperation across ministerial portfolios?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am sure that he, like me, will acknowledge that the reason that that close working was prohibited was the nature of the virus.”
“I want to be fair to all the Ministers around the table. This is a global pandemic, the like of which we have never seen before, and Ministers have had to step up very quickly, not only to their brief but to the challenges presented by the health emergency. By and large, many of them have worked well, but there is a lack of transparency in how some sectors get supported more quickly than others. I urge the Executive to fill the gaps in the haulage, coach and private hire and taxi sectors. Whatever the sector, we feel all workers deserve to be supported in these most challenging and trying of times. <BR /> <BR />I commend the amendment to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is most regrettable. In all my years, Committees have spoken with one voice. We have not generally created divisions, and it is very clear to see where the party political point-scoring is coming from. Some Members are looking for a greater focus on some industries and not on others. You have to ask why they seek to support some specific industries. <BR /> <BR />The message is that, if there are opportunities for the Executive to help in any way, in any particular loophole or gap that needs to be filled, I ask Members to support our amendment, so that we can act and speak with one voice.”
“People should ask what happened: what redeployment opportunities were presented by that Sinn Féin Minister? Minister Dodds not only wrote to Minister Mallon but, in answers to MLAs, she clearly pointed out that she was providing guidance for the taxi industry. The taxi industry has availed itself of support. <BR /> <BR />I am mindful that I have to address the issue around the coach and private hire sectors. It is my understanding that the Minister for the Economy will be making that provision because the industry is part of the wider hospitality task force that has been asked to look at the options that might be available for them. I hope that good news will come to that particular sector, because we all know that, the drop-off in tourism, especially from outside Northern Ireland, has had an adverse impact on that sector.”
“I will give the House some indication of some of the decisions that the Minister took within her area of responsibility. <BR /> <BR />The Minister wrote to Ministers Murphy and Dodds, seeking information and advice as to whether there was specific support and financial assistance that the taxi industry could access. Again and again, Minister Mallon wrote to the Executive, stressing that there was a need to ascertain what financial support could be made available to the industry. She also wrote to the Minister for Communities, asking whether taxis could be redeployed to help support the fightback against COVID-19. In the responses from the Sinn Féin Ministers, Minister Mallon was assured that there was support for taxi drivers. She was assured that a Sinn Féin Minister was exploring options for redeployment.”
“Lo and behold, where was the guidance? It was on the Department for the Economy's website, because that is where the guidance comes from, as taxi drivers are a self-employed sector. <BR /> <BR />We have great difficulties with the motion because it leads to confusion and misdirects. It is not serving the people, whom they said they seek to serve and get the best for. If we are honest and truthful with all those sectors, we will give them the right information, at the right time and send them to the right Ministers to get the help that they need. We would not send them up the garden path for us to make our own political point-scoring available to them. <BR /> <BR />In the SDLP amendment, we want to recognise the fact that this matter is not simply for DFI, where there is very clear regulatory responsibility.”
“<BR /> <BR />In relation to the furlough scheme and the haulage sectors, you can see that the Infrastructure Minister has, alongside the Finance Minister, corresponded with the Department for Transport and put in place whatever measures and opportunities she could to protect ferry routes. Unfortunately, however, the ferry companies decided to keep the financial package for themselves and did not pass on a reduction to the haulage sector. That is regrettable. It is something, I am sure, that the Department for Transport and, individually, Ministers here have raised with the ferry companies. However, that is the fact of the matter. <BR /> <BR />I looked up the guidance for taxi drivers myself, as I had heard what driving instructors were saying. I wanted to find out what the guidance was so that I could pass it on to driving instructors.”
“No, I will not. <BR /> <BR />At the Committee, I specifically asked the head of the DVA to tell me who has responsibility for driving instructors. They are self-employed. I have been approached by driving instructors. I have corresponded with them and given them the best advice available to me. However, I am very clear: driving instructors are self-employed, and their guidance was on the website of the Department for the Economy. The Minister for Infrastructure has responsibility for driving examiners, an entirely different kettle of fish, especially if you are the one doing the test.”
“Therefore, what the motion seeks, and what people fail to hear, is that the Minister for Infrastructure has no power to give financial support grants. The Committee has had sight of lengthy correspondence trails in which the Minister for Infrastructure wrote to her Executive colleagues asking for specific help. <BR /> <BR />If I can deal with the issue of guidance for driving instructors —.”
“We were told, in answer to a ministerial question, that, to date, over 30 taxi firms have availed themselves of the financial support package. Others have availed themselves of the furlough schemes, across all the sectors mentioned. Indeed, others have and will continue to avail themselves of the rates holiday and the break in tax payment that has been announced. <BR /> <BR />There are sectors that have had specific financial packages made available to them. However, they have been made available by the Executive, by the Economy Minister, and, sometimes, by the Finance Minister working with one of his colleagues. On more than one occasion, the Committee was told that the Minister for Infrastructure had no vires to make financial supports available. None.”
“<BR /> <BR />From the outset, the Minister has led from the front, within the purview of her ministerial responsibilities. She has amended the regulations. She has listened to the haulage sector, to driving instructors and to the taxi industry. We talk about the "taxi industry", but who, exactly, are we speaking about? I have checked with all my colleagues across Northern Ireland, and, as I understand it, the majority of the taxi industry folk who have a problem with what the Minister has done are centred around north and west Belfast. My office in Lurgan is beside a taxi company, yet I have not received a single complaint. <BR /> <BR />The fact is that all those self-employed sectors have been able to avail themselves of the financial support offered by the Minister for the Economy.”
“I welcome the Minister's attendance for the debate. The Minister has led from the front. Regretfully, it is very clear to see that some people are politicising Statutory Committees. The fact that there is a proposed amendment to a Committee motion speaks to that. We have cross-party support on that basis. There is deliberate misdirection and confusion. For a start, in relation to all the sectors, every Member feels, I am sure, a great debt of gratitude to those who continue to work throughout the health pandemic. We all know that many people are worried about their health, their jobs and their livelihoods, and as we face into, potentially, the worst economic recession that we have ever known, many people's fears continue unabated.”
“Minister, Sinn Féin seem to think of themselves as an elite party to which the rules do not normally apply, and have created a hierarchy of people who can flout the rules whenever they so choose. How, exactly, are you going to prevent people from having that perception and be able to stand at a podium telling me, everybody here and everybody outside of here what to do, and that the rules do not apply to you?”
“I appreciate that the Member does not want to get too much into what was discussed, but I am sincerely baffled by the claim of the Alliance Party that there was a vote that was voted down by the other four parties. That did not happen. Is that your recollection?”
“Can the Member recall that no such vote was taken? This is a narrative that is absolutely shameful on the Alliance Party. No such vote was taken. Can you confirm that?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is in no way a challenge to your authority in accepting the amendment. However, Assembly Commission members received further advice last night telling us that the amendment's intent cannot be implemented legally. I ask for your view on the matter.”
“It is good to hear that the Minister's officials are working with the company on its sustainability and long-term future, but it is imperative to get the 500 people who have lost their jobs placed urgently on retraining schemes and into jobs that are available in the area. What specific action is being taken to match those people up with retraining schemes and available jobs? Will the Minister consider giving additional funding to the Southern Regional College or elsewhere to provide the classes and training schemes for those individuals?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. The Minister will be well aware that any delays increase the applicant's dependency. Is the Minister confident that there is sufficient funding to tackle the backlog, so that whenever the systems are put in place and the consultants etc are engaged, we will be able to fast-track, especially given the importance to the construction industry as well as to the applicant?”
“Thank you, Minister. How many of those investigations will meet the test for prosecution? If and when people are prosecuted, do you believe that the punishment fits the crime and serves as an exemplar to others not to indulge in such behaviour?”
“As another Member who shares the Minister's constituency, I, too, am devastated by the job losses. There is no doubt that they will not be the last that we hear about, given the recession into which we are facing. There are two strands to the issue. Obviously, there are the 500 potential job losses, and, then, sustaining jobs for the future. With regard to Invest NI's work with the company, will there be a skills audit and ongoing discussions with neighbouring manufacturing industries in the constituency and more broadly in order to match workers with available jobs? Where there is urgent retraining need, will measures be put in place quickly and will there be flexibility of approach by Invest NI and the Minister in responding to whatever opportunities may arise?”
“The police simply cannot police the health regulations in relation to social distancing etc and do their other work”
“As a member of the Policing Board, I welcome the Minister's very firm reassurance that it is the Policing Board that holds the Chief Constable to account in his operational decisions, and we will continue to do so. Does the Minister agree that the police are between a rock and a hard place? She has already said that the interpretation of the regulations and the issue of the time delay means that there is a lack of clarity, and the police have made that comment on more than one occasion. Will the Minister provide an update? <BR /> <BR />About three weeks ago, I asked the First Minister and the deputy First Minister about the issue of the designation of other officers in the public sector regarding enforcement, for example traffic wardens and environmental health officers.”
“Very many people with a disability live independently and have rich and fulfilling lives, but that is not the reality for all. Therefore, as a society, it is not enough for us to pay lip service to families and carers who struggle to cope with their caring responsibilities. We must invest in support and respite services to enable individuals to live as fulfilling a life as possible. Diversity and inclusion should be celebrated. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion and conclude by referring to Heidi, who tells us that we are "amazing just the way we are".”
“I fail to understand why a so-called republican party supports a British Government determining on the right to life of unborn Irish children. It is a long way from the proclamation of 1916, which promised to cherish all the children of the nation equally. <BR /> <BR />My colleague Justin McNulty argues that by removing the words, "rejects the imposition of abortion legislation", from the motion, Sinn Féin’s amendment gives cover to an overreaching British Government that chose to override the democratic wishes of people in this part of Ireland. I cannot support the amendment for that and other reasons. <BR /> <BR />I am very conscious of the public interest in this debate and the arguments from both sides, but especially from people with disabilities who live within our families and communities.”
“<BR /> <BR />The amendment at Westminster that gave rise to this debate was inappropriately attached to a technical Bill that dealt with the postponement of Assembly elections. Many argued that the amendment was clearly outside the scope of the Bill, and all MPs from Northern Ireland who were in attendance voted against it. People here were prevented from having their say on the abortion regulations. Indeed, some, including my good friend and former Member Alban Maginness, have pointed out that that intervention has weakened devolution and the responsibility of the Assembly to address our social and economic problems, no matter how intractable they are. That is one of the reasons why I can’t support the Sinn Féin amendment.”
“Heidi shared with us her plans for her wedding, which is due to be held next week, but the celebrations for her wedding may have to be postponed due the current COVID-19 restrictions. She has, very sensibly, alternative plans in place. I am sure that you will join me in wishing her and her fiancé, James, a long and happy life together. <BR /> <BR />This debate provides an opportunity to send a strong message to those in Westminster who seek to put in place regulations in Northern Ireland that offer abortion with no gestational limits for children with disabilities. What does that say about the value that is placed on the life of a person who is born with a disability? It is almost beyond belief that abortion would be allowed up to full term.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion. It provides me and many of my party colleagues, who have a free vote and are not excluded from their party should they differ from the party line, to give voice to and reflect the sincerely held views of the many thousands of constituents who are opposed to abortion and the current legislative proposals by the British Government. I recognise the absolute responsibility on all Members who speak to ensure that their contributions are respectful of the opposing views of others. <BR /> <BR />This debate is a very emotive one, made more powerful by the intervention of a young lady, Heidi Crowter, who has Down's syndrome. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to speak to her and her mother, Liz, via Zoom, last night.”
“The SDLP accepts the reasoning offered, which is that although it would be technically possible to legislate for the devolved area through a Bill in the Northern Ireland Assembly, these are largely technical amendments that make no policy changes to existing offences and penalties. It is considered preferable to legislate in one Bill so that users of the eventual legislation in this area can refer to a single Act, rather than two Acts operating together. <BR /> <BR />The proposal is compliant with section 24 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, including EU law and convention rights as defined in the Human Rights Act. The provisions of the Bill that extend to Northern Ireland have no significant financial implication. This enables the SDLP to support the proposal.”
“I will speak on behalf of the SDLP. I pay tribute to my colleague Sinéad Bradley, who is our justice spokesperson, as she prepared the notes. However, unfortunately, she has to shield at the moment. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP recognises that a small number of provisions in the Bill relate to the transfer of community orders between the UK jurisdictions and notes the three that extend and apply to Northern Ireland and are currently within the legislative competence of the Assembly. They are: the transfer of community orders to Northern Ireland, the transfer of youth rehabilitation orders to Northern Ireland and the transfer of suspended-sentence orders to Northern Ireland.”
“What correspondence have they had, and what meetings have they held, with the Victims' Commissioner, with those who campaigned, and with those whose lives have not changed since the day and hour that they were injured: the people who continue to struggle through the daily grind of life, suffering pain and trauma and loss?”
“I share the concerns about the failure to put in place the structures to allow victims' pensions to be paid. Victims have campaigned long and hard for many years, and, time after time, they have been disappointed. It is over three weeks since I tabled a question for written answer to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to ask for a progress report. Can it be confirmed that there is a heading in the Budget to allow money, should it become available, to be paid over the coming months? <BR /> <BR />It is about more than just money. There were structures to put in place. I would like to hear, from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister, what progress has been made on those issues.”
“With that proviso, we are happy to support it as long as this is the exception rather than the rule.”
“I welcome the Minister's introduction; it was most enlightening on the principles behind the legislative consent motion for someone who does not serve on the Justice Committee. <BR /> <BR />There are some important points to make. It is right and proper that seamless protection and safeguards are written into legislation post-Brexit and during the transition period to ensure that important issues such as child protection are legislated for and to ensure that the highest level of safeguard and protection is in place internationally. I welcome that. <BR /> <BR />I note the Minister's comments on capacity in her Department and, indeed, the fact that this is Westminster legislation that, if I paraphrase, we are piggybacking on and that it is the exception rather than the rule.”
“I am sure that many farmers face that difficulty in trying to eke out a living. <BR /> <BR />Many farmers are custodians of the countryside. As we know, many farmers do not want to retire, and they work on. We all know about the difficulty in enticing young people into farming. I very much welcome this support. It is the right thing to do at this time.”
“On behalf of the SDLP, I welcome the derogation, particularly in the light of the very wet winter that we had, with the difficulties that that poses the farming community. The COVID-19 pandemic and crisis has taught us many things, but one is who the important people are and the important roles that farmers and those who provide, prepare and serve our food play, so it is important that we support them at this time. If the Minister allows, I will tell a story that my father used to tell me about a neighbour. I am from the Montiaghs area, and, in the wintertime, this farmer used to sign on the dole. They used to ask him how many acres of land he had, and he used to say, "Well, in the summertime, I have 21 acres, but, in the wintertime, I have three". I am sure that the Minister will be able to work that one out.”
“I welcome that review. There seems to be an issue with the HSE giving clarity and doing regular workplace inspections. In order to allay some of the concerns that many staff have, are you considering providing the necessary upskilling to employees — for example, environmental health officers or inspectors in the Department of Agriculture — so that they could play a role in the broader inspection of workplaces?”
“I thank the Ministers for their statement. I want to ask about the policing of restrictions as they are lifted. We all know about the public discourse and lack of clarity on the restrictions. This is an issue. I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board. The police cannot do this alone. How will it be done? What will be the message from the Executive Office? What channels of communication will be used to ensure that people do not relax? The vast majority have abided by the regulations, but people have greatly relaxed, certainly over the past few days.”
“I know this is straying a bit, but I am just curious about why the Department of Infrastructure is treated differently from every other Department by the creation of a central fund. I am just curious around that.”
“I ask that the cycling champion is empowered and enabled to campaign ferociously for councils and planning departments to take on board the needs of cyclists, in general, and e-bike users and others, in particular, when designing open spaces and putting regeneration moneys into our towns, cities and rural villages. Therefore, Minister, we are very supportive, as you can imagine, of these regulations. We look forward to seeing many people out and about, enjoying the fresh air and having a safer and more sustainable method of travel, that is much more inclusive and open to all.”
“<BR /> <BR />There has been a substantial increase in the number of cyclists on our roads, but e-bikes will open up the opportunity for cycling as a pastime and hobby, and as a method of travel to and from work and shops. They will also allow cycling to be much more inclusive for people with disabilities, older people and people who find some of the hilly landscapes in our towns and cities a wee bit more challenging than others. They will, therefore, be of great benefit for a variety of reasons. <BR /> <BR />The Minister is to be congratulated for bringing forward these regulations so early in her tenure.”
“On behalf of the SDLP, I welcome the regulations. They were initiated, I think, by our former Minister Mark H Durkan. Unfortunately, we have had the hiatus of the past three years. I am not sure what Mr Hazzard did in his time, but, thankfully, we are here now. <BR /> <BR />I welcome Mr Boylan's remarks in relation to this being COVID-related, because it is strange to me, and to many observers, that the Infrastructure Department is the only Department that has not received any COVID-19 funding. I ask Mr Boylan to use his good influences with his party colleague the Minister for Finance, Mr Murphy, because for this to be successful and to play a part in the reduction of carbon emissions, as the Committee Chair referred to, infrastructure will be required to encourage more people to feel safe on the roads, as Mr Boylan rightly said.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement, in which she often referred to the importance that infrastructure has in enabling the economy to return to normal and to drive forward. Minister, you will be aware of the work, particularly in New Zealand, to get infrastructure projects shovel-ready for when the construction industry returns to normal. Have you given any consideration to the approach taken and whether there is an opportunity to green infrastructure?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I have raised this question before at the Policing Board. Do you share my concern about how ethnic minorities and people from different cultures will know about this? How are we going to educate people to know that they are victims and that they have a right of redress?”
“I agree wholeheartedly with the Member's call for proper resourcing of the police, but does he not share my alarm that the current Budget proposal gives the police only a 3% inflationary uplift, which will only allow them to stand still and will not bring the number of officers up to the level that they need and that Patten stipulated?”
“So the Minister certainly would have my and my party's support as regards any forthcoming budget statement, because we want to see money included to help implement the legislation and to resource people affected by domestic violence and abuse.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's reference to the Gillen report and her having taken on board some of the recommendations of that very comprehensive report. <BR /> <BR />Minister, there were one or two other points that I wanted to make around investment in Women's Aid and the refuge and whether you can share with the Assembly any commitments in the forthcoming budget for additional moneys to support women and children who have been abused. I have felt for a long time that, while a lot of lip service is paid and lots of tears are shed at the plight of some, when it comes to resourcing, specialists in that field, very often, are left to scratch around annually for charitable donations and the crumbs off the Executive's table.”
“I welcome the cross-jurisdictional nature of the legislation, Minister, at clause 10. If abusers think that they can carry on abuse somewhere outside of Northern Ireland and that they will not be chased, I welcome clause 10, which gives them no hiding place. That is essential. <BR /> <BR />Others have made reference to a register of domestic abuse offenders. I wonder what your thoughts are on that, because the sex offenders register has, I think, proven itself to be a critical tool in moderating in some way, and certainly in keeping tabs on, some of the worst sexual offenders. <BR /> <BR />As Members have referred to, the legislation is much more widespread in terms of the relationship definition, if you like, to which domestic abuse can apply, and I welcome that.”