Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“I must say that that is a bit rich coming from that quarter, given that this Bill could presumably have been before the House some three years ago. Indeed, three or four months ago, there was a further threat, from that same quarter, to pull the House down. Sinn Féin and the DUP must look very closely at themselves in terms of what they do for their own selfish political interest and that which needs to be done for the greater common good. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, I also pay tribute to the family of Rachael Molloy, a 22-year-old finals student who was doing her teaching certificate. She was the niece of Catherine Matthews, whom many of you know. Catherine is our party manager and administrator in the offices at Stormont, and Rachael was her much-loved niece who, tragically, died from a blood clot on 27 March 2021.”
“I am very pleased to be able to participate in this debate. I give my full support to the Bill. In doing so, I pay tribute to all the tireless campaigners who brought us to this stage, none more so than my constituency colleague Jo-Anne Dobson, who is also a party colleague of the Minister and a former MLA. Jo-Anne, a kidney donor for her son, is very familiar with and passionate about this issue, and I pay tribute to her. She worked on this for many years. Unfortunately, is she not here today to see the Bill, hopefully, go through the House. <BR /> <BR />I heard Mr Sheehan's contribution, as did my colleague Pat Catney, in which he told the DUP what the threat to pull down the House might do to this legislation.”
“They are threatening to walk away. Only a few months ago, Sinn Féin was threatening the same; it was doing just what the DUP is doing today. Let me be clear about this: we cannot fix the roads, increase our budgets or improve lives if politicians walk off the pitch. We had three years of decay and rot in our services and on our streets thanks to the stand-off and the stalemate between the DUP and Sinn Féin. People have had enough. Let us get on with the job and get back to work.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also have to acknowledge the fact that, in some constituencies, legal challenges have delayed work. That has been a huge concern for the representatives of the constituencies directly impacted by those challenges. <BR /> <BR />I hope that Members will agree that Minister Mallon is clearly doing all she can, but the decay will continue if roads are not prioritised by the Finance Minister and, ultimately, the Executive. If that continues, the rot will continue. Members across the Chamber have expressed their concerns about the impact that that might have on road safety. <BR /> <BR />We are debating the need to improve our roads and the need for more funding to help the Minister and her Department to deliver, but, at the same time, there are parties here that are threatening to collapse this place.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that Minister Nichola Mallon has consistently bid for additional funds, but I am pretty disgusted that full funding for those bids has not been awarded. Members across the Benches will, no doubt, have similar questions to ask. Why have the Executive not prioritised that funding? Why does the Sinn Féin Finance Minister, Conor Murphy, continue to short-change Minister Mallon's Department, ultimately, short-changing our constituents, for whom we want delivery? I know that a lot of work has been done in South Antrim — Members acknowledged that fact — and that, as is the case in my constituency, there is much to be welcomed, but the absence of the required funding, the impact of COVID and the bad winter we have just had mean that more and more roads are suffering decay.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many Members who have spoken thus far have shared their concerns about the cuts to the funding that is required to enhance and repair roads year after year and have acknowledged that that is unacceptable. I have no doubt that the Minister is here to outline the work that she has been doing in South Antrim and across the North to repair our road network. However, the absolute truth is that, in 2015, deep cuts were imposed on the then Department for Regional Development, and those cuts have never been repaired by the Executive. We all welcome increased capital funds, but we know that the reality is that, without the resource funding, the capacity is simply not there to get the work done.”
“I thank the Member for South Antrim for securing the debate on roads in his constituency. Members might wonder at me participating in it, but I live in south Antrim, although not in the constituency. Many of the roads in my constituency lead directly into the Member's area. They need repairs; there is no doubt about that. <BR /> <BR />Participating in the debate also gives me the opportunity to congratulate the ladies of Antrim Camogie for their outstanding win in Croke Park at the weekend. It has been a great weekend for women in sport. I congratulate all those who participated but particularly the winners and those who volunteer on their committees.”
“The good people of Upper Bann will have an opportunity in the coming months to say whether they believe that I stand up for them. <BR /> <BR />Has the Minister agreed a timescale for the animal welfare register with the Minister of Justice?”
“Minister, have you had any stakeholder engagement on the principle that there is a correlation between sentencing guidelines and information on a victim's remains?”
“The Minister said that it was not for her to comment on the "wider issues regarding Capita". However, I have repeatedly represented victims of the conflict in disputes about their PIP awards. I have little confidence in how Capita manages that contract, and we can see a lack of confidence in the NIPSO report. What confidence can you give victims, particularly those who have had mental health trauma and post-traumatic stress disorder, about the skills and expertise of those who will make the assessment?”
“— to have an all-Ireland register that has the support of people across this island.”
“I hope that the Minister works hard during the remainder of the mandate to have it established; indeed, I know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that you have had discussions on an ongoing basis with the Agriculture Minister in the South, Charlie McConalogue TD, in looking at an all-island register. We know that this border is far from — well, we know today, anyway. Certainly, the Committee meeting in a room nearby will know about the border. <BR /> <BR />Certainly, I think it is worth the effort —”
“The register, it is hoped, would be able to be accessed by shelters and charities so that people convicted would not be able to rehome animals and, indeed, by pet shop owners and others so that they could check the bona fides of people who wished to purchase animals from shops. Indeed, for those who have been convicted of illegal practices on puppy farms as well, that is very important. <BR /> <BR />We already have stiff sentences available to the courts, although some might argue that the sentences that have been imposed thus far do not go far enough in relation to what many see as a very sadistic form of behaviour. Many think that, in some cases, it is psychopathic, given the levels of cruelty. Therefore, it is timely that the register be established.”
“It is supported by the Ulster Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (USPCA), and I am grateful to it and to all those who signed the petition, which calls on the Agriculture Minister to work alongside the Minister of Justice — the Minister of Justice recently gave commitments to make her officials available — for the register to be established, because it is important that those convicted of such horrendous cruelty are disbarred from keeping animals.”
“I am grateful to the Speaker and my colleagues on the Business Committee for providing time in a busy schedule today to present this petition calling for an animal cruelty register. It is something that our party colleague Malachy Quinn has worked hard on over the last number of years and that has the support of all councils across the North. It is something that people obviously feel passionately about. Within a matter of days, the online petition acquired over 4,000 signatures. In many Members' constituencies — certainly, in mine — in the last couple of years, there have been some horrendous cases of animal cruelty towards domestic pets and farm animals. <BR /> <BR />The petition has widespread support.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question, which is a very valid one. The Commission hopes to meet again by the end of this month. We have particular targets to meet for our carbon footprint across the region, so I will bring the question to the Commission's attention and come back to the Member. It is a valid point to make, because we hope that there will be an increased number of hybrid and electric vehicles on the road in the near future.”
“One of the very few bright spots arising from the COVID-19 pandemic and the implementation of measures to facilitate remote working for Members and staff in Parliament Buildings has been a reduction in travel to and from Parliament Buildings. As well as a reduction in the use of fossils fuels to travel, there has been some reduction in utility usage in the Building.”
“In addition, since the Commission started formally measuring its usage in 2008-09, there has been an 83% reduction in paper usage, a 34% reduction in electricity usage and a 15% reduction in gas usage. <BR /> <BR />The Commission also participates in Business in the Community's annual environmental benchmarking survey. Last year, the Commission attained a platinum award — the highest level available — and was named as a responsible business champion in the environmental leadership category. <BR /> <BR />In order to encourage Building users to avail themselves of sustainable travel, there are four electric vehicle charging points in the upper car park of Parliament Buildings. The Commission also has a cycle-to-work scheme, which is available to all Members and staff.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The Assembly Commission has a strong commitment to sustainable development, including reductions to its carbon footprint. As such, the Commission first received accreditation to the environmental management standard ISO 14001:2004 in September 2011. That was successfully maintained when the standard was replaced by ISO 14001:2015 in 2017, and it has been retained each year since. <BR /> <BR />The Commission's sustainable development office works closely with the Department of Finance's energy management unit to ensure that appropriate measures are in place to reduce our carbon footprint where possible. For example, the Commission receives its electricity via a Department of Finance contract, with all the electricity provided being 100% renewable.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. The Commission has not agreed a precise time frame at this point, but it recognises that there is a need to balance the significant work involved with the need to deliver early results. Therefore, it is likely that the project will be delivered in stages, with initial proposals presented to the Commission by the end of September. However, the Commission will receive regular updates, and it is mindful of the wishes of Members to make progress in the area.”
“That approach will mean considering how all the items in storage might add value to illustrating our history to visitors. However, I say this to the Member: not every artefact that is owned by the Commission is necessarily directly relevant to this Building; some may be more relevant to other organisations.”
“I was wondering when the Member was going to come to his question, rather than giving his retrospective analysis of the work of the Commission. I have to say that my experience of working with the Commission over the past year has been very productive. I thank Mr Buchanan for his work on the Commission. We have made a lot of changes over the last number of months, particularly in view of the pandemic and some of the decisions that the Commission has been dealing with. We also have to deal with the reality that the Assembly contains a diverse range of political opinions and perspectives. <BR /> <BR />While the Building was undoubtedly influenced by its early history, it should also reflect more recent developments, including the current Assembly.”
“The approach that has been recently agreed is a deliberate attempt by the Commission to change the conversation on these issues and to move forward. It is much more likely to lead to progress that ensures that all sections of the community are reflected in an agreed way.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. I agree that there are communities, not least women, that are under-represented around the House. Women are 51% of the population. <BR /> <BR />The issue of symbolism and the display of artefacts in Parliament Buildings has been raised with the Commission a number of times since 1998, both by those who feel that the symbolism in the Building does not reflect all parts of the community and by those who have asked for all the Commission artefacts that are currently in storage to be permanently displayed. However, the Commission has, regrettably, been unable to find a way forward for a number of reasons, including the lack of suggestions on alternative items, the inability to identify available items and the difficulty in achieving political agreement.”
“It is an ambitious project, and it is significant that all Commission members have endorsed it.”
“It will seek to ensure that all parts of our community are represented, but it will also take account of the visitor experience and how displayed items are used to inform and educate visitors about our history. The Commission will then be in a better place to determine which of its artefacts can be used to illustrate that narrative and all parts of our community, but it will also consider gaps, which will then allow items to be identified and brought into the Building to fill them. <BR /> <BR />Officials have been conducting some of the initial scoping work and will engage further with Dr Phoenix this month once activities around this month's centenaries have passed. Officials intend to complete a first phase and to come to the Commission with initial proposals by the end of September.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The issue of the display of artefacts has been raised by parties on all sides of the House at different times over the years, but it has been difficult to achieve political agreement on it. <BR /> <BR />At the Commission meeting on 17 February, a paper was considered that proposed a significant and strategic project to take a different approach to looking at the display of artefacts in the Building. The Commission has agreed a set of principles and a framework to underpin the project, which involves officials working with Dr Éamon Phoenix to develop a narrative of the key events and figures connected to Parliament Buildings and the institutions that it housed that should be reflected in the Building.”
“I wonder about the assistance that she has had from London for crucial projects. Will the Minister give us some indication of how much, or little, fulfilling of promises there has been from the British Government, rather than sound bites from them on the matter?”
“It is clear to anybody who is listening properly that the Minister is working east-west as well as North/South.”
“I am sure that the Minister will remain open and transparent, as she was during the DVA lifts crisis. Unfortunately, this has been a difficult year for everyone. However, it seems that a number of things were waiting in the Minister's in-tray when she assumed her portfolio. How did the process go so terribly wrong in the first instance?”
“I declare an interest as a former occupational therapist. Minister, those are horrendous figures. They are only for a first appointment and are not about treatment. The whole point of occupational therapy is rehabilitation and allowing people to live full and independent lives. I am aware that a number of people have applied to train as occupational therapists, but there are only 40 places at the universities. Surely we need to invest in our universities in relation to the number of occupational therapy places. Have you had, or do you intend to have, any discussions with the Economy Minister?”
“I also wish to express solidarity to the Health Minister in the face of the recent abuse.”
“I hope that, over the coming weeks, months and, indeed, years, when, there is no doubt, you will have other causes to fight, you show a wee bit more of the real Arlene; the one who has that sense of humour and can make fun of herself as well as having a strength of character. I wish you well in the weeks, months and years ahead.”
“I am sure that they, like many others watching, can say that you did it with style, resilience and character.”
“I, too, joined the Assembly in 2003, although I had a bit of a blip between 2016 and 2017. I am grateful to the people of Upper Bann who put me back into this place. Over the past couple of years in particular, I am often asked by people, "What's Arlene Foster really like? Is she like that?". I usually start with, "Well, you know". I try to explain to people that many of us have a public persona. Over the past few weeks, I think, we have seen part of the real Arlene, from the class that you displayed in your song at the weekend to how you have dealt with the challenges. I am sure that even today has been another difficult day of many difficult days. Today, all your family will be watching with some trepidation and hoping that you get through this afternoon OK.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again. On that note, Minister, we are meeting tomorrow at the political reference group on ending paramilitarism and criminality. Does you agree that it is now time for more stick and less carrot? People are fed up.”
“Will she send out a public message that as well as some of the items being dangerous, the cigarettes and alcohol can quite often be poisonous in nature?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Water and sewage are a particular problem with developers in some areas. Has the Member experienced the situation where there are a number of developers on one site? One developer gets planning permission, then subcontracts so that somebody else builds and somebody else sells. They each take a cut, but they reduce the standard of infrastructure.”
“The motion has all-party support, and I support the Minister in moving forward.”
“It remains challenging for the foreseeable future and for the Minister's tenure. I know that she has worked very hard to consider all those issues and see the best way forward. <BR /> <BR />Buying a home is the biggest investment that the majority of us will make in our lifetime, and it is only right that, when we buy the dream, it is as it appears in the brochure, or, increasingly, on Instagram or on videos for turnkey houses.”
“At one stage, the budget for infrastructure maintenance fell from over £50 million per annum to £27 million more recently. Those things come at a cost, and the cost comes in service delivery. <BR /> <BR />We all want to work smarter, not harder, but some jobs require labour-intensive resource for delivery. When I thought about that, I wondered about the number of different types of farm inspectors. For example, building control inspectors go on sites, and the Department has infrastructure inspectors. I wonder whether there could be a cross-departmental agreement whereby one inspector could report back on a number of findings to NIW, DFI Roads and building control and, therefore, share the load a bit. That could be a resolution because, as we know, the budget is not getting any better.”
“I have had dealt with that over the years, never mind the damage to cars from drainage lids sticking up well above the ground, as the Member said. <BR /> <BR />The time has come for developers to take greater responsibility. The 80% sales and occupancy rate seems to be quite high. I know from speaking to some developers that a lot of the additional financial burden of paying taxes for the sales of the houses as well as some of the bonds falls to them once they go over that threshold. Minister, you may want to look at that issue in any subsequent review, but your officials made it very clear to the Committee that resources continue to be a huge issue for the number of street inspectors over the years, which, I believe, has at least halved under the voluntary exit scheme, and for financial resourcing to the Department.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the Member for his intervention because we have been doing just that in connection with a particular development in my constituency. The Minister will be aware of it. I do not want to name it publicly because I want to respect the views of my constituents, who do not want to go public about it. In particular, it relates to NI Water (NIW) and the lack of a stick with regard to what can be done. As Mr Beggs highlighted, during the boom years, solicitors were very quick to get sales out the door, and I question some of the due diligence. Some of them may well have responsibilities there, and I have advised constituents to go down that route. As Members know, and Mr Boylan said, there are consequences for the delivery of other services such as bin collections.”
“However, it is confusing for many householders who have had to chase down different agencies and officials, not only in the Department for Regional Development or Infrastructure Department but in councils, to find out who has power over what. At times, people who went to environmental health were told, "It is not us; it is them". Therefore, it is a bit confusing for householders. <BR /> <BR />When making representations on behalf of my constituents, I find that many do not want to go public. They are worried about the impact that it might have if they wished to sell their property. They feel that their hands are a wee bit tied. Solicitors must address the issue that they have responsibility for conveyancing and doing the relevant checks.”
“As the Chairperson said, the Committee heard a presentation from Roads Service officials, because the issue is one that not only the current Committee but, as others indicated, other Committees over the years felt needed further inspection. It comes across all of our constituency desks. <BR /> <BR />People have been patient. We had the financial collapse in 2007-08. Then, we had many companies, particularly construction companies, going bust and the whole situation around the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), and nobody knew who owned what for a number of years. Of course, this place being suspended for three years did not help with pursuing errant developers.”
“I thank the Minister for her commitment to North/South relationships and to this work, which is important for the economy and the environment. <BR /> <BR />You mentioned climate change targets, Minister. What further work do you envisage that there can be collaboration on to tackle the climate change crisis?”
“Further to the Minister's last response about the impact across the North, I know that, in my constituency, planning applications have been refused or put on hold because of the lack of capacity, particularly for sewage. I know that, time and time again, the Minister has called for greater investment by the Executive in water and sewerage infrastructure. Can she outline the impact that that lack of investment is having across the North?”
“Will the Minister provide an update on the Living with Water programme?”
“I am sorry, but I do not have much time left. <BR /> <BR />As I was saying, it begs the question of who did what, when and why it is being covered up. <BR /> <BR />If we are to move forward, however, a strong message of support for the Finucane family's call for justice has to go out. Promises have been made to the Finucane family in agreements between Governments over various negotiations, and we should hold the state to a higher standard than paramilitary or any other types of organisations across these islands. I commend the motion to the House.”
“I will return to the debate and Members' contributions. In trying to heal the divisions of the past, it is important that we get to the full truth. Surely we should all hold the power of the British Government to a greater standard than that for paramilitary organisations. As others have said, the current investigation being conducted by Mr Boutcher noted that extensive records are held by the Ministry of Defence, and, if some parties do not want to cough up, I am sure that the British Government could open their filing cabinets and fill in the gaps. As some Members have said, there was heavy infiltration, but it begs the question —.”