Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“I thank the Minister for his response. I particularly welcome the economic and social inclusion measures. Does that mean that he will not stand by his Department's proposal to withdraw education maintenance allowance (EMA) support? As he knows, many young people from working-class backgrounds rely on that funding to enable them to attend studies and to enhance their skills.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Noting the tight time frame that the Minister has been working to in order to table her amendments, I ask whether she will consider amendments to clause 5A at Further Consideration Stage to allow additional safeguards to be built in for the integrated sector. Indeed, that could also be considered by the Education Committee.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Under New Decade, New Approach, we also committed to a culture and identity Act. Where has that gone? We cannot cherry-pick what parts of New Decade, New Approach we seek to support.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I do not believe that any contributor to the debate so far has sought to denigrate the work of the controlled and maintained sectors. I am quite sure that we will hear from the Bill sponsor that that is clearly not her intent. Rather, it is about looking at how we can legislate for a better integrated society and move society forward with some of the building blocks for reconciliation.”
“Yes. Justin may want to answer that particular question.”
“As the Member will know, a number of schools, over the years, sought to transform and found difficulty getting the exact change. Having the principle or ideology of integrated education is very different from having practicalities that drive you to look to be integrated. Of course, I do not serve on the Education Committee; I am sure that others are better informed than I am and could give exact numbers. Is there a formula of 40:20 or 40:30? I am not really sure what it is. It may be 60:40.”
“That is well documented and, certainly, is something that principals of integrated schools in my constituency tell me. Hopefully, the Bill will enable a level playing field without doing harm to the maintained or controlled sectors, because —”
“The SDLP is very much behind the Bill, but, as others across the way have recognised, and as Mr Sheehan outlined, the controlled and maintained sectors were not the cause of division or sectarianism. I certainly was not taught to be sectarian in any shape or form through the education system. I went to what was, at that time, Our Lady of Mercy school in Lurgan for post-primary education. <BR /> <BR />Parents will make the choice. All schools have to up their game to provide the best opportunities, but we also have to up our game to give them the financial resources and support to provide the best opportunity for all our children and young people. The integrated sector has been at a disadvantage over the years when it comes to the funding formula.”
“Therefore, I understand the Bill sponsor's impatience in tabling the private Member's Bill, because, like many people in the Chamber, she may have little confidence in others to bring it forward in any meaningful way.”
“As a parent and now a grandparent, I know that parents choose where to send their children to school based on where they can get the best educational outcome. We all know the importance of education for lifting all of us out of poverty and enabling opportunities to be more equal. <BR /> <BR />Some of the clauses talk about socio-economic factors and equality and diversity, and that is to be welcomed. The difficulty that I have with the Members opposite talking about waiting until an independent review is completed is that, over the past 15 years, we have had numerous reviews of health and education, including of academic selection. I am sure that the shelves in Stormont House and in some Departments are quite full of unimplemented reviews and action plans. That is a regret.”
“Like others, I welcome the opportunity to speak, and I congratulate the Bill sponsor and her team for getting this far. As my colleague Daniel McCrossan said, the SDLP has a long history of supporting educating our children together and of enabling people to live together. One of our former Ministers, Margaret Ritchie, introduced the concept of shared housing. One such scheme in Banbridge, Peggy's Loaning, is quite a success. We now have more people living cheek by jowl, particularly in private housing developments, and, through mixed marriages and partnerships, we are much more integrated than before, yet parents tell me how their children play in the street together but, come Monday morning, go to different schools.”
“I concur with the joint First Minister in her total rejection of the British Government's legacy proposals, but can she give us any insight into what commitment has been given by terrorist organisations about holding themselves to account and giving truth, justice and accountability to the far too many victims of the Troubles as a consequence of their actions?”
“I ask the joint First Minister, given that the staycation voucher scheme is not now going ahead and that the money for it will not be used, how will decisions on recouping the money from overpayments, payments that should not have been made or, indeed, payments that were unable to be spent be debated at the Executive? What is the methodology for making decisions on the way forward?”
“I welcome the Member's supplementary question. Members will know that, only recently, a Member was disabled for a short period of time and required the use of a wheelchair. That very clearly pointed to some of the work that we still need to do and avenues that we need to take to address physical accessibility to a number of rooms. Of course, buildings of this age present their own challenges. <BR /> <BR />Braille measures and additional guides, if you like, that can be taken up will hopefully be highlighted through the disability action plan survey. We will take on board any recommendations that the hard-of-hearing and/or the visually impaired communities highlight.”
“We are involved in ongoing discussion with representatives of the deaf and hard-of-hearing community to explore other ways in which the Assembly Commission can deliver services to that community.”
“Hopefully, the Member will be relieved to know that the Commission recently discussed additional measures. Indeed, it has a current survey on a disability action plan for the Assembly. We are always committed to ensuring that proceedings of the Assembly and Parliament Buildings are accessible to all. To that end, as I said, the draft disability action plan, which runs from 2021 to 2025, sets out how the Commission intends to promote positive attitudes towards disabled people and to encourage participation by disabled persons in public life under a number of themes and actions. <BR /> <BR />We also recently approved a pilot for sign language interpretation at Question Time for the First Minister and deputy First Minister, which, as I said, will begin commence on 13 December.”
“I am also willing to add that Assembly officials will always wish to support requests from people with a disability to ensure as full and as inclusive participation as possible.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sign language interpretation was also provided for a play, 'Shrieking Sisters', that was hosted by the Assembly Commission on International Women's Day in 2018. In 2018, tours of the Assembly were conducted for people with physical and sensory disabilities on International Day of People with Disabilities. Training events for the blind or partially sighted on how to engage in the proceedings of the Assembly were also facilitated by Commission officials under the auspices of the Royal National Institute of Blind People (RNIB) in May of this year. The Commission also recently approved a pilot for sign language interpretation of Question Time to the First Minister and deputy First Minister. I hope that the Member will agree that that is a very welcome initiative, which will commence on 13 December.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Over the past three years, the Assembly Commission has received a limited number of requests for services for people who are blind, partially sighted and/or hearing impaired. During the current mandate, interpreters have been used once in this Chamber, in 2020, in relation to a sign language Bill. Sign language interpretation was also provided for a meeting of the Committee for Communities earlier this year. Sign language interpreters were provided for the Pensioners' Parliament held in September 2021 and for the Disabled People's Parliament held only a few days ago. Easy-to-read Order Papers and notices of indicative timings were also provided for that event, and additional staff were on hand to assist visually impaired participants and people using guide dogs.”
“While Zoom and virtual classrooms and debates have their place and are useful at this time, nothing beats the opportunity to build relationships, network with young people and get to know them on a face-to-face basis.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that the Youth Assembly met recently on a Saturday, during which there was an opportunity for enthusiastic debating for many young people. As elected representatives, Members in their own right will engage with schools and many of the youth organisations throughout their constituency. However, the Assembly Commission and, indeed, the Speaker have committed to the Youth Assembly, and we will want to hear more from it. I look forward to the feedback from the Speaker at the next Commission meeting. <BR /> <BR />We hope that, as the health situation improves, with a reduction in restrictions and guidance, there will be more opportunity for round-table discussions, as opposed to using Zoom.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I do not believe that that has been before us as a Commission, but I am happy to take it to the Commission's next meeting.”
“Let me assure you that we are absolutely committed to improving engagement.”
“We are, however, proactively seeking to increase our engagement with schools and community organisations in other ways, notably through virtual events. For example, since October 2020, 138 schools and 4,400 pupils have taken part in a virtual education programme delivered by the Assembly's Education Service. In addition, over 80 schools have taken part this year in Committee consultations on issues such as a bill of rights for Northern Ireland, the impact of school lockdown on young people and climate change. Also, over 1,000 representatives from the community and voluntary sector have taken part in 62 engagement programmes delivered virtually by the Assembly's engagement team. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that Members will want to join me in paying tribute to the team, who were swift and adept at meeting those needs.”
“However, because of the public health situation and associated regulations and guidance, Parliament Buildings was closed to the public from 18 March 2020 until 14 July 2021, and therefore no engagement activity was possible in the Building during that period. <BR /> <BR />Since the reopening of Parliament Buildings to the public in July, some engagement activity and events, including with schools and community organisations, have, indeed, taken place in the Building. However, the demand for engagement activity and events in Parliament Buildings is currently low by historical standards, and our capacity to host such engagement activity and events is greatly reduced because of the need to adhere to the public health regulations and guidance — in particular, on social distancing.”
“including schools and community organisations, is one of the Assembly Commission's four corporate aims. In the past, a great deal of that engagement has taken place in Parliament Buildings.”
“There are a few areas around which we seek further clarification, but we look forward to working with the Member at Committee Stage in bringing forward or in supporting his amendments to the Bill on those points of clarification.”
“<BR /> <BR />Patsy McGlone outlined that we met the sponsor of the Bill only last week and that we raised a couple of areas on which we were seeking further clarification. As a party, we are keen to work with the sponsor of the Bill in looking at some minor amendments, particularly to clause 6 and the interpretation and the outworkings or, if you like, the potential unintended consequences of some of the points in that clause. Some of those amendments will be around questions like these: what if a third dog joins the rampage, if you like? What happens if a farmer does not have a gun and he or she sends dogs off to chase foxes away from the sheep? Will all farmers have to carry a firearm certificate? <BR /> <BR />Much has been said about the Bill. I want to be very clear that the SDLP is supportive of the intent of the Bill.”
“I appreciate the Member's clarifying that point. In his very impassioned contribution to the debate, Mr Buckley talked about no winners or losers, but, frankly, there will be winners: the many wild mammals that will not be torn to shreds by dogs. I, for one, and, I am sure, the majority of people who have been quoted during the debate, do not need to see much scientific evidence or research to know that such actions are inhumane and cruel. We know that. It is interesting to note that, coming out of COVID, many people are talking about building a kinder society and being kinder to each other. Hopefully, we will be kinder to nature because of the climate challenge and kinder to our animals by controlling and preventing that type of sport.”
“I thank the Member for introducing the Bill. Like my colleague Patsy McGlone, I rise in support of the Bill. The SDLP has had a policy of wanting to ban fox hunting since 1995. As many have said, the primary objective of the Bill is to stop fox hunting as a sport.”
“While that is not a matter for Minister Mallon, we want to know, as others have said, from the Economy Minister and the wider Executive where the energy strategy is. If we are to deliver the change that our society deserves, we need to work together and deliver not just for this generation but for future generations.”
“We have supported other parties here, and, at some point in the new year, I hope to bring my nature restoration Bill to the Floor. It deals with measures to improve air quality, air pollution and the health of the nation and to restore nature and the environment in which we all live and have so valued over the last couple of years in the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />It is fair to acknowledge that the report can be a driver for change, and it should be seen as key to our partnership with the Minister and the wider Executive. We welcome the fact that the Minister and her Department will look closely at the recommendations and at what more we can do together. We know that Minister Mallon has put forward options for the decarbonisation of transport through the energy strategy.”
“No. I want to put a couple of things on record, and then I will see about giving way at the end. <BR /> <BR />On the SDLP's commitment to deal with the climate crisis, no one can fault our aspirations and actions at Westminster, in the Assembly and, indeed, in the work of Nichola Mallon, whether she is in charge of her portfolio or in looking beyond these shores at good practice elsewhere. Only today, she has been working closely with Minister Eamon Ryan on an all-Ireland rail network. Members are right to point out the deficits west of the Bann and how people there have been failed by the short-sighted closure of many of our railway networks. Nichola Mallon is picking up that challenge. Also this week, Colum Eastwood's Climate Change Bill is subject to debate and further progress at Westminster.”
“Dr Aiken referred to the failed Boris bridge, and one hopes that some of the funding that might have been set aside for that will reach these shores for building rail connectivity and assisting in the decarbonisation of our vehicles.”
“I acknowledge the importance of the intervention by Mr Muir. We can all go on about the lighting on roads and street lighting for active travel, but that will not happen unless there is significant investment in infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />I heard Ms Kimmins refer specifically to a GAA club. I have a GAA club — the Wolfe Tones — that asked for street lighting on the Derrymacash Road and was turned down by Conor Murphy a number of years ago. We have not heard people say, either in the past or in the current Budget round, what their party will demand be delivered. It will require significant investment from the Executive.”
“I hope that, eventually, the penny will drop amongst all the Executive parties that, if we are all to benefit for the greater good, collaboration, power-sharing and working together are the only way ahead to make all the wonderful recommendations reality.”
“I pay tribute, as others have done, to the researchers and, indeed, Committee staff for all their hard work to get us this far. It took a lot of effort, given the change in Committee business to deal with the COVID pandemic and some of the issues that arose from it. I also pay tribute to the former Chairperson of the Committee, Michelle McIlveen, who was determined to see the report tabled. It contains important recommendations, which many Members have referenced, but it also acknowledges the fact that the outworkings and actioning of those recommendations will depend on Executive collaboration. I am an optimist on the day that is in it.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is he, like me, somewhat heartened by the representation from Members from Sinn Féin on the importance and value of public transport? Would he welcome their intervention with the Finance Minister, Conor Murphy, to urge him to pony up some money to enable some of those aspirations to be met?”
“I thank the First Minister for his response. I hope that an answer will be given sooner rather than later, because we all know about the importance of infrastructure in driving forward the economy. Can he provide any update on the establishment of the commission for infrastructure?”
“The First Minister gave the Communities in Transitions project a glowing report, and there is undoubtedly some good work going on. I wonder, however, whether an independent review of the work of the project is needed to look at who exactly benefits from it and at whether the outcomes are meeting its overall objectives.”
“Since the Minister took over the portfolio, she has had huge problems to fix. If it is not MOT lifts, it is legal challenges or the collapse of the institutions for three years, when no decisions were made. Will the Minister confirm whether she has received adequate financial support from the Minister of Finance to fix all the problems with infrastructure, particularly our road network maintenance?”
“As you recognised, how can rehabilitation be thorough if the offender has not returned the body?”
“Minister, I welcome your statement and join with others in paying tribute to the families of Lisa Dorrian and Ms Murray. I also pay tribute to the families of those who were disappeared by the Provisional IRA — Columba McVeigh, Joe Lynskey and Captain Robert Nairac — who have waited almost 40 years for the return of the bodies of their loved ones. I, again, call on the republican movement to return their remains. <BR /> <BR />Minister, in your statement, you talked about incentivising the offender. Indeed, the power continues to rest with the offender, to a point. I wonder whether you have given any thought to taking the stick approach of a whole-life tariff, the ultimate penalty that any offender might pay, regardless of what some might call rehabilitation.”
“We are one of the parties that supported the retention of a site in Lurgan. Minister, I heard you say in response to Mr Beattie that you are not able to comment, but a proposal was put forward that Lurgan Junior High School campus would allow the sharing of accommodation in the absence of any agreed way forward on academic selection. I urge you to consider that and to meet the principal and the board of governors of Lurgan Junior High School on their proposal about providing an alternative site.”
“Will financial support be on offer? Will there be support in kind? If so, how much, and when might the council know?”
“That cannot be sustainable. The two big parties, Sinn Féin and the DUP, have controlled the Executive's purse strings for the past 15 years. Therefore, if we are to fix the crisis in the health service and, indeed, the social care system, we must be honest about what the health service needs. We must have a strategy in place that does not fall on the shoulders of the Health Minister alone but on the Executive and, in particular, the two joint First Ministers and, indeed, the Finance Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am shocked, as, I am sure, are many members of the public, that the Executive are not meeting today to discuss the crisis in the health service. What happened last night in Craigavon happened only weeks ago in one of our other hospitals. I have no doubt that, like a domino effect, it will happen again unless we get a grip of what is going on in the health service. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the crisis is not just because of COVID, its impact and the number of people who continue to be unvaccinated — as the Health Minister told us only a week or so ago, they are 15 times more likely to require a hospital bed — but the dire underfunding and lack of strategic workforce planning that we have had to endure over the past number of years. Some may well try to place all the blame for that on the Health Minister.”
“I have just had confirmation that my question for urgent oral answer to the Health Minister was not accepted. I want to talk about the situation in the Southern Health and Social Care Trust, particularly Craigavon Area Hospital, last night. Today, an interviewer asked me whether the service had collapsed in Craigavon last night. What does a collapse look like if what we saw last night was an image of the brink of collapse? We heard appeals for people not to come to the emergency department if they needed help, other than in absolutely dire emergencies, and not to call ambulances, and there was a call-out to any staff who could go back into work. I have spoken to staff over recent weeks and months, and they are all physically and emotionally exhausted.”
“I welcome the Minister's innovation. Careers advice has long been a concern of mine. Will the careers advice service sit in your Department, as opposed to it being something of a postcode lottery across different schools and the energy and budget that they have to provide that advice?”
“Thank you, Minister. I cannot wait to get my booster vaccine. I hope that many others take up that opportunity. <BR /> <BR />Minister, your Department today published stats that told us that, in the last 24 hours, 11 people have lost their lives to COVID and that there are a further 41 people in ICU beds. God forbid that there were any accidents or anything like that and somebody belonging to us needed an ICU bed. As I understand it, the majority of those who have died and those who are in ICU are unvaccinated. Minister, will you use the opportunity to join with us in the SDLP to call on those who have not yet received their vaccine to do so without delay?”