Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“If there is anything further, I would be grateful if the Minister could write to me. Earlier, he referred to the Paws for Thought campaign at the ports. Minister, how do you anticipate trying to close down some of the loopholes that were exposed in the recent 'Spotlight' programme? Is there anything further that can be done? If so, are your officials working on that?”
“The SDLP is on record as supporting a payment for bereaved families and survivors of the Troubles. It is my understanding, Minister, that the demand for the health service to access records is putting a huge drain on resources, particularly in mental health. Has that been brought to your attention as an additional financial requirement across health?”
“We have heard in recent days that what the public are most interested in is this place working together in the interests of all to tackle our waiting list crisis, housing and our economic COVID recovery. Let us hope that we can all turn our minds to those things, because, for too many years, it has been about poking each other in the eye.”
“I speak as a member of the SDLP, not as a member of the Commission. The regulations are not an unreasonable adjustment to the existing regulations. Nonetheless, as Mr O'Dowd said, they were done on a solo run by a previous Secretary of State, Peter Mandelson, and do not conform to the true spirit of paragraph 5 of the Good Friday Agreement. <BR /> <BR />We should encourage the use of emblems and symbols in public spaces to promote mutual respect and understanding, not to cause division. I hope that, through the publication of the FICT report, if it is ever published, we will see some work being done to improve understanding, so that we do not, as Séamus Mallon once said, poke each other in the eye over such matters.”
“Once people are ready for discharge from hospital into the community, it is critical that the support mechanisms and the wrap-around service swing into gear very swiftly. <BR /> <BR />We are, as the motion says, in a housing crisis. Far too little has been delivered over the past number of years. I hope that the strategies that the Minister outlined will see the light of day and be quickly resourced and implemented. It is very clear in my mind that we need a much broader overview to meet the needs and aspirations of all our citizens, whether it is co-ownership, having social and affordable housing to rent or people being able to remain in their own homes after injury or illness. I thank all the Members who spoke for their contributions.”
“I thank the Minister for that clarification. That is some good news. We have talked about that in the House for a long time. As a former OT, I wonder why it has not been done before. I wish the Minister well. I know that the pilot has shown some good results. It is critical. As more and more people require healthcare and community care, the focus will be on care in the community.”
“<BR /> <BR />I ask the Minister to look particularly at disabled persons facilities grants. I know that she has looked at some flexibilities there. Getting an assessment from occupational therapy to kick-start the process —.”
“Equally, we have to look at how co-ownership can help those who want to get into the housing market. <BR /> <BR />Of course, there are issues with how land is often banked by developers until there is an opportune time to build. I fully understand that there is much more that is not in the Minister's gift, as she said, and that requires collaboration across government. That is clear, and I accept that. However, there has to be some honesty about what has been delivered: four houses out of 2,900 on a waiting list. It is not just about starting to build; it is when the houses are actually built that is the true stat that we need to understand. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's flexibility on contracts. She will know that new builds, particularly around schools, have, in my constituency, fallen foul of the increased cost of construction.”
“Sorry. <BR /> <BR />— where there are protections such as rent caps. We need to look at that. <BR /> <BR />I feel sorry not just for the people who are most vulnerable and marginalised in terms of the types of houses that they have to live in but for the people who cannot get on to the social housing ladder at all and have zero chance of owning their home. The strategy going forward for how housing is designed and created has to not only meet the needs of the most vulnerable and marginalised through the provision of a good, affordable home but help your children, my children and the children of teachers, nurses, care workers and factory workers. It has to help everyone. We have to start to build a different type of society where it is OK to rent.”
“When Margaret Ritchie and Alex Attwood were Social Development Ministers, they increased housing, with 2,000 new homes built each year. During their tenure in office, they built more houses than any subsequent Minister. <BR /> <BR />It is right and proper to say that housing should be on all our minds, because of those linkages to health and how it creates vibrant and sustainable communities. Across Ireland, there is a huge need for people to own their home, but, as Ms Bailey said, it is equally OK to rent and to want to be a renter. Indeed, Ms Bailey referred to examples across Europe —”
“I thank the Member for his comment. <BR /> <BR />I think it was Ms Bradshaw who remarked that housing is an issue across the island. I think that the reason why it is not in the public discourse to the same extent in the North as it is in the South is whose responsibility it is. Housing is the responsibility of Sinn Féin in the North, but Sinn Féin, of course, is an opposition party in the South, where housing a key electoral strategy. Some of the remedies that the Housing Minister in the South has advocated are the ones on which we are to congratulate the housing Minister in the North. <BR /> <BR />I find it strange that, all of a sudden, having a housing-focused outcome in the Programme of Government is so important now, when it was not important in January last year, which is when we sought for it to be in the Programme for Government.”
“<BR /> <BR />I did not think that I would ever say this in the public domain, but I was glad of Mr Storey's intervention, because I was beginning to think that I was living in a parallel universe in which we did not have three years of collapse of the Assembly with no decisions on health, education and waiting lists. We heard earlier about the crisis in our health service. We now hear about the crisis in housing. We had three years, however, in which housing did not drive people back to the Chamber or back around the Executive table.”
“I also place on record my thanks to Housing Rights, because I am sure that I avail myself of its services on a weekly basis as I seek advice on how best to advocate on behalf of my constituents. Often, it picks up our slack by providing advice and making available legal services. <BR /> <BR />COVID has taught us all about the value of having a good home and having a bit of space in the garden and in the house. There is the old saying about your home being your castle. Many Members spoke about the need for people to feel safe and secure in their home. That is true.”
“Only the other week, I had a family in with me who had been given until just after Christmas to find a new home. The Member for Upper Bann across the Chamber will know that there are not many places left to rent in the Upper Bann constituency, yet we have huge public land ownership. We have stacks of land in the centre of Craigavon, in the Brownlow area in particular, on which we could build homes. Despite 2,908 families and individuals on the waiting list last year in our constituency, only four homes were built. <BR /> <BR />I say to the Minister that, as an elected representative, I have regular meetings with the Housing Executive. I place on record my thanks to its staff, because many of them work tirelessly and are passionate about finding good homes for people.”
“I thank the Minister for being present for the debate and all Members who contributed. From Members' contributions, the linkages between housing and good health outcomes for everyone are clear, and, owing to the changing demographics of society here, there is a need for much more diverse housing accommodation for people who are older, those who have disabilities and those who are part of the boomerang generation, if Cara Hunter does not mind my saying that. As the parent of someone from that generation, I am familiar with the difficulties that young people have in getting an affordable home, whether that is to rent or to buy. <BR /> <BR />Across all constituencies, in the past weeks and months, we increasingly find people presenting as homeless because landlords are taking advantage of rising house prices.”
“The Member will recall that he and I visited a new rural housing association scheme out at Derrymore and saw the splendid work that was being done on fuel poverty and being built into sustainable houses at that time.”
“We want to be part of the conversation going forward on how best to marry the challenges posed by climate change and the sustainability of rural communities. Sorry, I was on a train of thought there and I could not give way.”
“<BR /> <BR />The biggest difficulty that we are faced with in the Upper Bann constituency — I have referred to it before — is the area plan, area 1 and area 2. Development in some areas is being held back under the area plan. Of course, the area plan is also a responsibility of local councils, not the Department. There is much work to be done across planning. It does not fall at the Minister's door. It falls very much to our colleagues across all the councils. It also falls to Finance and what money it gives to councils from rates to allow them to employ more planners to get caught up, because we know the importance of the construction industry to the economy here in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I will finish by acknowledging the leadership shown by our Minister. It took a judicial review to amend PPS 14 and introduce PPS 21.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some Members acknowledged the fact that the planning application process is slow. I think that Mr Boylan said that. That goes back to the transfer of functions from this place to councils, when responsibility went to councils but the resources did not. In more recent years, we saw the voluntary exit scheme, under which many experienced planners left. The same happened in DFI Roads. I was surprised and shocked at how many people with whom I had built relationships over many years left those sections under the voluntary exit scheme. It is a challenge. In a period of austerity, it is a challenge to get enough officers. However, it is the responsibility of councils to employ planning officials and to speed up the process.”
“I, unashamedly, used whatever interpretation — loose interpretation — that I could and fought back against planners to ensure that the people whom I represented had the chance to build a home close to their family so that they could send their children to the school that they went to, be there to care for parents or grandparents and help to sustain the sporting and church organisations in rural areas. At the time, even of PPS 21, which was fairly rigid in its application, environmental campaigners said that it was not good enough. There is a balance to be struck. That is the eternal argument, and it is in even sharper focus now due to climate change and the needs of rural communities. The two should not be losers. We should be able to create a win-win.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members, including the Member who moved the motion, are right to acknowledge the lack of social housing in rural areas. However, the last time that I looked, that was the responsibility of Deirdre Hargey. I understand that there are still many spaces in development plans across our villages and rural areas on which social and affordable housing could be built. <BR /> <BR />For over 17 years, I had the honour of representing a largely rural district electoral area (DEA).”
“As my colleague Cara Hunter said at the outset, we acknowledge the leadership that has been shown by the Minister, because, as you know, Mr Deputy Speaker, we raised concerns about the planning advice note. Of course, it came about as a consequence of PPS 14, which was introduced by Conor Murphy when he was Regional Development Minister. It created a blanket ban on all new houses in rural areas and there was a massive outcry. It was picked up by Arlene Foster, who then led on PPS 14, which, of course, in June 2010, led on to PPS 21, which was the responsibility of Edwin Poots. The interpretations that have brought us to where we are on rural planning have very much a cross-party genesis. Our Minister sought to address the different interpretations across council areas.”
“We are up for a review that is in the best interests of all and for having collaboration across Departments that is in the best interests of all.”
“I move now to the race to be First Minister. We all know that it is a joint office with equal standing. One cannot move without the other, which, of course, is why there is such paralysis around the Executive table these days and no business coming to the Business Committee. There is paralysis and a mutual veto that Sinn Féin conceded to the DUP at St Andrews to spare its blushes when going through the Lobby to vote for Martin McGuinness as deputy First Minister. Now, it has come back to bite the DUP, and it has done so quickly. The SDLP is up for a review.”
“Over recent years, the mandate of the Alliance Party has counted for much more than that of many other parties in the House. That is a matter of record.”
“Going back, the Alliance Party was happy to take the Justice Ministry when, arguably, the SDLP was entitled to a second Ministry at that time. I remember saying to the late Martin McGuinness that no nationalist need apply, and that still prevails in relation to the appointment of the Justice Minister.”
“It is recorded on iPlayer and YouTube. I might be paraphrasing, but that was the gist of what Mr O'Dowd said. People were shocked that night, and there was quite a lot of response on social media to that. <BR /> <BR />I want to go back to Ms Armstrong's portrayal of the Alliance Party as being somehow less. Our mandate has been disrespected, and I think that the mandate of a lot of parties has been disrespected by the power struggle between Sinn Féin and the DUP, who look only to their own constituencies and not to the greater good. Of course, that was what the Good Friday Agreement was all about: we would end the tribalism and work together collaboratively for the common good. Seamus Mallon described what happened at St Andrews as the Balkanisation of the North, and we have seen that subsequently.”
“No, I will not take an intervention. That is a matter of record. He said that nobody else's mandate mattered but Sinn Féin and the DUP's. As for the Alliance Party, it was happy —.”
“I want to move on to the Alliance Party's portrayal of itself as somehow being lesser citizens. In actual fact, Mr Deputy Speaker, you will recall that Mr O'Dowd did not respect our mandate when he said on 'The View' a number of years ago that the other parties did not matter outside of the two big parties, Sinn Féin and the DUP.”
“If the Alliance Party can support that amendment to the British Government's legislation, I cannot understand why it cannot support that as a recommendation to the AER Committee, as outlined in our amendment. <BR /> <BR />Cross-community voting did not come out of nowhere. It came about as a result of intensive negotiations after a period of misrule by one party. The intention in the Good Friday Agreement was not only to prevent that from happening but to enshrine the rights of minorities, both now and into the future, whatever shape the jurisdiction —.”
“The abuse of the petition of concern, which was never properly legislated for or operated as per the Good Friday Agreement's actual terms, and other examples have led to wider questions about the efficacy, appropriateness or, indeed, extent of cross-community voting thresholds or even the system of designation on which these are counted. <BR /> <BR />As I have said, the SDLP is open to a review. Indeed, at Westminster, our MPs have tabled an amendment to what is known as the NDNA legislation. It was supported by the Alliance Party MP, Stephen Farry, and we are open to joint election being endorsed by one or more of parallel consent or qualified weighted majority — for example, 60% of those present and voting or two thirds of MLAs.”
“I will speak on behalf of the SDLP amendment, but I acknowledge the Alliance Party's amendment to its own motion, which goes some way to addressing many of our concerns. Many Members have already acknowledged that review provisions were, in fact, deliberately written into the agreement, both in overall terms and in relation to specific institutions or strands. The SDLP, during those negotiations and publicly during the 1998 referendum campaign, recognised that the provisions on designation and cross-community voting should and would be subject to review. We said then that we hoped that some of the necessary checks and balances might be biodegradable so that, as the environment changed, we could see agreement to have less reliance on what would be seen as more artificial containment of democratic decisions.”
“I thank the Minister for that reassurance. Does she share my concern about the rising cost of fuel? Week in, week out, we see a rise of £30 and more. In light of rising fuel costs, has the Minister considered establishing a support scheme for particularly vulnerable people?”
“I thank the Minister for his keen interest in the practice. The situation has been a matter of controversy for over five years, but, under his tenure, at long last we have a solution. I am not optimistic about the answer to my question, but there are increasing accommodation needs in Portadown Health and Care Centre in general. With the return, hopefully, of GP face-to-face practice and with multidisciplinary teams being rolled out, that will become a greater problem. Is that at all in the Minister's plan over the next year or two?”
“People should be strident in upholding that principle, not just in word but in deed, and they should not cherry-pick depending on who the alleged perpetrator is.”
“In recent weeks, I have noted age being no barrier to prosecution. I saw that a 100-year-old was on trial in, I think, Germany, for war crimes. Some might say, "Rightly so", because, even though the generations who suffered at that time may be long gone, their families remain, as do the hurt and the quest for answers. That is the case for many here who have yet to get truth, justice, acknowledgement and accountability. Where justice is available, it should be sought, regardless of who the alleged perpetrator is. The argument about army personnel has been long dispelled. We know that the Historical Enquiries Team (HET) did not do proper investigations, and we certainly know that there was no investigation by military police at the time of the killing. No one should be above the law.”
“Mr Speaker, I am very conscious of the caution that you advised of Members when participating in this Matter of the Day. Indeed, I am mindful of the families, both the family of John Pat Cunningham, a young man who was shot in the back, and the family of Dennis Hutchings. It is never easy to lose someone, regardless of what age the person is. I dispute, however, the assertion that the trial was not in the public interest. I am not aware of the level of evidence, but it clearly met the very high threshold set for prosecution by the PPS, and that is why the case went to trial. All Members here have expressed the view that no one should be above the law and that the law should be applied equally. That is a maxim in which we can all have faith and belief.”
“That evidence is in the public domain and is available from the Assembly's Research and Information Service's (RaISe) team. I have no hesitation in rejecting the motion.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am sure that the Member will take on board his own advice about labouring on certain elements in reports. When evidence has been lacking from the ombudsman's reports and new evidence comes to light, it is right and proper that apologies are issued. That is correct. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to the wider legacy and the delays, we know that the police, both the RUC and the PSNI, operated a policy of what they called a "slow waltz" of disclosure. That was in relation not only to the Coroners' Court and the inquests but the Office of the Police Ombudsman. That was a huge factor in delays. <BR /> <BR />We already have an Office of the Police Ombudsman that works for everyone. We have seen impartial and independent evidence presented by adjudicators other than this House.”
“<BR /> <BR />If it had not been for the Police Ombudsman, would the Omagh families be where they are today? It was a former Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan who, in her investigation, found that there was a lack of support when it came to the investigation and sharing of information in relation to the Omagh bomb. Those families would still be —.”
“Another matter of interest for many is the rise of domestic violence during the COVID pandemic. The Police Ombudsman gives confidence about how those cases are dealt with, as well as confidence in relation to spit and bite guards, which are a matter of concern to many in society and amongst human rights activists in NGOs. Only last week, the Police Ombudsman published a report in which she largely concurs with the Children's Commissioner that spit and bite guards should not be used against anyone under 18. At a recent committee — I should have declared an interest as a member of the Policing Board — she also catalogued and gave examples of her concerns about the cases that she investigated, stating that spit and bite guards should not be used. That all gives an additional layer of accountability and confidence for others.”
“<BR /> <BR />In recent weeks, we have seen the importance of police accountability, particularly around the Office of the Police Ombudsman and for confidence in policing, in sexual misconduct cases, which are very much part of the public discourse at the moment following the dreadful murder of Sarah Everard.”
“We all know how important accountability is, not only for public confidence in policing but for the legitimacy of policing in any democratic society. <BR /> <BR />The proposer of the motion laboured the point about how the Office of the Police Ombudsman deals with legacy cases and how long those have taken to come to fruition. As Mr Kelly said, that is, in part, down to a lack of financial resources for legacy cases, which has been deliberate on the part of the British Government and others, and the continued delay in implementing the Stormont House Agreement, which the majority of parties here supported. The House continues to reject the British Command Paper on legacy. Far too many victims and survivors are still awaiting truth, justice and accountability, and many players have to step up to that particular mark.”
“but a cursory glance at the findings of any of the recent independent and impartial reports on confidence in policing will tell you that, from 2003 to 2004, when public satisfaction stood at 58%, the trend has been upwards, and up to 80% in 2019-2020. In the past year, the percentage has fallen, which is not surprising, given what the COVID regulations and the confusion around the implementation of the restrictions have meant for public confidence in policing. <BR /> <BR />A 2020-21 report on serving police officers' satisfaction with the ombudsman's office found that 78% believed that complaints had been dealt with independently and that 63% felt that that made the police complaints system more accountable.”
“On behalf of the SDLP, I oppose the motion. It is a matter of regret that, in the absence of legislation from the Executive Office, we are going over old ground once again in arguing about the Police Ombudsman. <BR /> <BR />The motion deals with the:”
“We are privileged to enjoy it, and we saw that during the COVID-19 pandemic. We have been luckier than most; certainly, we have been much more privileged than those living in our urban landscapes. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that this is a very important debate. We need to readjust our thinking. Not only do we need to think more about social prescribing and the importance of the natural environment to our physical and mental well-being, we need to think about active travel initiatives and reducing our carbon footprint on the environment.”
“<BR /> <BR />I was very pleased that the Minister visited Lurgan and Brownlow. What we call the Black Paths are widely acknowledged as the oldest cycleways on the island of Ireland. I do not know whether Mr McGuigan has had the opportunity yet to cycle some of those paths, which join Lurgan to the Brownlow area and run across to the South Lakes. The Minister recently announced a £400,000 investment in the South Lakes. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGuigan and others are quite right to acknowledge that greenways were badly neglected in the past. A huge amount of maintenance work is needed to bring those cycleways and footpaths up to a standard that will allow us to encourage our children, young people and keen cyclists of all ages to feel safe and confident to use them and to enjoy the natural environment, of which we should all be very proud.”
“I apologise in advance to you, Mr Speaker, and to the Minister. I have another commitment at 8.00 pm, and I may not be here for the Minister's response. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for North Antrim for securing the debate. People might wonder why I am speaking in it, but the Member said that the people of Glenravel were very advanced and perceptive. Well, I married a man from Glenravel almost 40 years ago, so there you go. My in-laws would hold me to account if I did not support the Member in his endeavours this evening. <BR /> <BR />The Member talked about social prescribing. In the new normal, post COVID, we need to get to grips with the benefits of that. The Minister, Nichola Mallon, with the money that she has set aside both for greenways and blueways, embodies the SDLP's commitment to tackling climate change.”
“There was no anti-poverty strategy — zero, zilch. Take a long, hard look at yourselves before you start pointing the finger at Minister Mallon.”
“They like to point the finger all around the Chamber and to create identity and cultural politics warfare so that the voter loses sight of what is really going on in terms of their failure to deliver not only on investment in waste water and sewerage infrastructure but on social and affordable housing, on education, on the health service and on communities. They have failed to stop the Tories denying the universal credit uplift to people who are not just on the breadline but below it. Yet, here we are, and, without shame, Sinn Féin points the finger at Minister Mallon while it was the party that caused the Assembly to collapse for three years — three whole years when no decisions could be made on health, on education, on housebuilding, on waste infrastructure or on welfare. There was absolutely nothing.”