Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“I welcome the Minister's insight and acknowledgment that what happened in Dingwell Park was horrific, but was not an isolated incident as far as antisocial behaviour and vulnerable people being placed in settled communities is concerned. Are there any lessons to be learned from the recently conducted review into supporting people, or could any amendments be made to assist and direct resources to those types of situations in which people need a bit of extra help?”
“I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge that the number of houses being built is just the tip of the iceberg of those that are required. Minister, you will be familiar with Mount Zion and the demand in the north Lurgan area in particular for units for older people. Will you agree to meet a delegation from Mount Zion on an exciting proposal they have to transform the current arrangement they have with Choice Housing from young person's dwellings to those for older people?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. Can he give us some indicators as to how he will take forward the implementation? What are the key emerging trends that he wants to act on?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that it is another example of the people being ahead of the politicians and that the politicians should listen to the people?”
“I cannot help but think that, in relation to the loyalist paramilitaries, we got the answer and analysis from them last week when they came with their begging caps out looking for help to get out of extortion, drug dealing and other criminality. It seems the case in point that they are very much active.”
“Imagine that the House of Lords, where people have the most privileged of all backgrounds, one would think, might well be the last defence of those who are most vulnerable across England, Wales, Scotland and here in the North. It is quite ironic, is it not? <BR /> <BR />In relation to earlier comments about my party and the issue around welfare, at least we did not acquiesce on the issue of welfare. We are still in the business of seeking mitigation and having a sensible way forward for the benefit of all.”
“It does a disservice not just to the people of Northern Ireland but to all of us. <BR /> <BR />We have heard others say that they are defending these institutions. I do not know how they are defending them. There are quite a few weaknesses in the fortress surrounding these institutions because of the antics of some. One of the biggest risks to these institutions is the failure of, in the main, the two big parties to work together collaboratively. That is why we have seen so many strategies stuck, particularly in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Why can there not be an effective anti-poverty strategy, particularly in light of all the Tory cuts? I welcome the current backlash in England in relation to the attack on the tax credit system. I hope that that particular cut is stood down.”
“It is those people who have been most betrayed by the failure to make politics work in the North. <BR /> <BR />I listened carefully to the Sinn Féin contribution earlier. I cannot help but reflect that, some two years ago, Sinn Féin blocked the Executive from meeting for three months. So, at times, Sinn Féin has little to offer in the way of criticism that could be stood over. When the recent crisis occurred, someone asked me what I thought the DUP would do. I said, "Well, they cannot just block the Executive. They will do something like that, but they will do it differently because Sinn Féin has already done that." That is why we have such a messy situation. That is why some strategist, on a very dark night when they were obviously not performing at their best, came up with the ploy of in-out, hokey-cokey Ministers.”
“The argument as to why DUP Ministers ought to get back to work is well made right across the political, civic, voluntary and business sectors. <BR /> <BR />In the words of the DUP's Chief Whip in the Assembly, their tactic is messy. He said that in an interview over the weekend on 'Sunday Politics'. Many Members, particularly those from the DUP who want to get back to work, believe that it is very messy and counterproductive. Unfortunately, it is not just counterproductive for all those businesses, the community, the patients on waiting lists, the homeless or those waiting for announcements on benefits, pensions and housing, but to the detriment of us all as the public loses faith in these institutions. Of course, it was the will of the people and the votes of the people back in 1998 that established these institutions.”
“I am disappointed to have to take part in this debate. I had hoped that, by now, common sense would have prevailed and we would have a functioning Executive and Assembly, particularly in light of dissident activity over the last few days where lives were very clearly put at risk. We all know the danger of a political vacuum here in the North and of who steps in to fill such a vacuum. If for no other reason than that, I appeal to the DUP to get back to work. <BR /> <BR />Many contributors to the debate have outlined the challenges waiting in many of the Ministers' in trays — not least, of course, in Health. Once again, we have seen and heard of job losses over the last number of days. We hear about potential investors who will not commit to that investment in the absence of political stability. It is long past the time.”
“Will the Acting First Minister tell us how success be measured?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is it not a fact that real wages in Northern Ireland have dropped by 9% in the past number of years?”
“Not only does it highlight the discrepancies and the failed ideology of the Tories, it accepts that it is not enough to wail and cry. When it comes to the friends of the Tory Cabinet, we will look for and support any ways of closing the loopholes in Westminster.”
“They have the responsibility to adopt an anti-poverty strategy that can allay some of the worst excesses of the Tory plan for people here who are finding life very, very tough. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that we all know people — not just constituents but people in our family — who are weighing up whether it is worth their while to take a job or whether they need to stay on benefits. We all know that working is of benefit to individuals' self-esteem and to their role in life. By working, they provide a role model for their children. However, when deciding whether to take a particular job, people have to weigh up the financial pros and cons and whether their family might suffer as a consequence. Very often, people are having to make very real, tough decisions. Our party is, therefore, very much behind the motion.”
“Of course, they are all trying to move further and further to the right. They are waging war against people on benefits but not against their employers. This is hitting working families hardest: these are not people who do not want to work; they are people who are in work. Quite often, the money from tax credits goes towards the payment of childcare. <BR /> <BR />It is lamentable that the Executive were taken to court by the Committee on the Administration of Justice over their anti-poverty strategy and found guilty. That is a damning indictment of this Executive. Let us not hear the wailing cries about what others should or should not be doing. We should want to find out more and hold to account the Executive parties, in particular the two big parties.”
“I do not think that Tory MPs will be able to sustain that and face many of their constituents, particularly in the north of England where families will be hit harder and quicker than many others in the south of England. Therefore, Mr Dickson is right to point out that MPs should be present in their numbers to vote down these odious Tory plans. <BR /> <BR />What we see across the water is that Mr Cameron has said that he is not going to stand again as Prime Minister. We see the wannabes line up to take his place.”
“<BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, it is a sad fact that, in my constituency — I suggest that it is so in all our constituencies — households of families with children will be hit hardest by the tax credit reductions. In 'The Irish News' today, there is an excellent article about Facebook. Mr Dickson also referred to the corporation tax loopholes that prevail amongst many of the friends of the Tory cabinet. The article states that Facebook has to pay a corporation tax bill of around £5,000: full stop. That is less than the tax that an average worker on a salary of £26,000 would pay. Surely, there is something inherently wrong about that. Mr Dickson is right to point that out. <BR /> <BR />I think that there is a slow burner of Tory Back-Bench rebellion.”
“Mr Dickson was doing very well until the last couple of points, I think. He seems to forget that the Alliance Party's sister-party, the Liberal Democrats, was part of the Tory-led coalition Government that introduced many of the initial cuts to people's benefits. Maybe that is a part of the Alliance Party's history that it would rather forget. However, he is right to point out the absence on the Benches opposite of Members who milled in, in their numbers, to ensure that the money for special advisers was retained. It is interesting that not too many of them were holding their noses going through the Lobby as they were voting for Sinn Féin. The only stench at that time was the stench of money, when they went through those Lobbies in their party's interests.”
“— dispersed rural settlements. Perhaps you could outline why the dispersed rural settlement community is not included in the strategy.”
“I thank the Minister for a very good answer on sustainable development, the link across councils and regional planning policy. Sustainability, of course, has many interpretations and there is the need for sustainable populations in rural areas. In my constituency, under the area planning policy, white land is not to be developed across the whole of the Craigavon borough area until all the land that is deemed to be area plan policy 1 land is used. It is causing considerable problems in some rural communities. Minister, it would be useful if you could outline that, in some parts of the rural area, there are —”
“We are hearing two conflicting views in relation to why the hold-up has occurred. Perhaps the Minister could bring us some certainty around that and some information on staff who have been seconded to arm's-length bodies, the impact on numbers, what the budget might be and whether or not the Executive will consider the needs of those staff, in addition to putting something on the table for those staff who have an offer potentially within their grasp.”
“I note that the Sinn Féin amendment goes further and talks about staff seconded from arm's-length bodies. <BR /> <BR />To the best of my knowledge, that is a new addition; it is something that I was not as aware of as of those civilian staff in the broad justice system. However, these people have been making the case for a very long time, and I am sure that many of them would very much prefer to have some certainty about what is on offer, even though it falls short of their expectations and what true justice would give them. Nonetheless, there is an offer on the table, and it is my understanding that people are prepared to accept something less than that to which they had aspired. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to hearing some clarity on the position from the Finance Minister.”
“There is more certainty around a proposal that, I believe, is with the Executive and which has been held up for a considerable time, for whatever reason. Therefore, I see the proposal from the Ulster Unionist Party as something that falls far short of meeting the needs and aspirations of the people who are most impacted upon by this failure, but, as others have said, there is no legal obligation on the Executive. There is, however — I think that all of us are agreed — a moral obligation. However, we live in constrained times, and there is some proposal that will assist the majority of people who have made equal pay claims right away if the Executive agree the paper from the Finance Minister. That is my clear understanding, and discussion of it is something that I look forward to.”
“I and other members of my party have spoken about this clear inequality in the equal pay claim over the last number of years. Whilst I have a lot of empathy, and, indeed, sympathy, the fault lies with the failure of the British Government to honour not only the commitment to these people but many other commitments, not least to victims in the North. Indeed, where legacy cases are still outstanding, EU courts have found against the Government. <BR /> <BR />However, I look forward to what the Minister has to say about the proposals that are firmly on the table, as opposed to some that might well be in the ether. Having had discussions with some of the people impacted upon, I understand it to be the case that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Will she indicate whether she has any budget lines for some of that work?”
“The Minister will be aware that a number of job losses are imminent next year, not least at B&Q in my constituency. What efforts are being made with his Big Conversation around colleges for those people who are somewhat later in life and find themselves out of work during that time? How will those training opportunities or services that people usually avail themselves of through the colleges be ring-fenced for the future for those people who need that type of upskilling?”
“Minister, will you outline whether you have had any further discussions with the Irish Government about cross-border cooperation in the centenary celebrations?”
“I thank the Minister. I am sure that she will join me in paying tribute to the many men and women who give voluntarily of their time. Even if some of them are remunerated, quite often that does not recognise the amount of effort they put into the organisations. Will she update us on the issue of the position of chairperson of the board of Sport NI?”
“We would like to see better regulation and guarantees around that to protect tenants when there is an investment out of the public purse on the property. I think that that should be reflected in some security of tenancy for the occupants. <BR /> <BR />This is something that we have said time and time again. We all know many of the difficulties facing people in the community. It crosses our constituency desks, yet we have an almost empty Chamber and at least a third of our ministerial team is not at work today. That is something that the public are, quite rightly, angry about, and we should prevail upon the DUP in particular to get back to work right away.”
“There are concerns around some letting agents and what they say and do to potential tenants. Mr McCann tried to suggest that other parties were not as keen on regulation and wanted a light touch. I do not think that is the case. I think that our previous Ministers had introduced better regulation around the landlord scheme and better conditions, and indeed were the most successful Ministers in tackling the social sector and the need for families and individuals requiring proper and good affordable housing. <BR /> <BR />One of the concerns that I would like to raise during my contribution is the issue of the affordable warmth scheme. The landlord, through the tenant, if it is in the social rented sector, can apply to the warm homes scheme, but they do not have the level of surety that, once the home is upgraded, their tenancy is secure.”
“<BR /> <BR />I heard the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment refer to how the DUP was holding out for better deals and right government, but I think their in-out, hokey-cokey position on ministerial positions has backfired on them. That is certainly the mood of the public, and many of that party's own members feel very uneasy about it. So, yet again, I prevail upon the DUP to get its Ministers back in post. People are angry and fed up, and much work is required to be done. <BR /> <BR />In his contribution, Mr McCann also referred to the many good landlords. It is fair to say that there is an association of private landlords that highlights for the rest of us and for themselves some of the glaring deficits in the lack of regulation of the sector. For example, the regulation of the deposit scheme has not gone far enough.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many young people are returning to university, and students in particular are having to rent houses that are quite often lacking in fitness for habitation and many of the resources that they would find in a family home. Therefore, the need for regulation has been on the table for a very long time and, as Mr McCann said, it is most regrettable that, again, the Minister is not in his place because not only is there increasing concern about growth in the unregulated private sector but there is a dearth of proper accommodation for families and, in particular, people with disabilities. The list for disabled persons' facilities and the delay in the provision of grants is ever increasing.”
“The SDLP is supportive of the motion and better regulation of landlords. I declare an interest as a landlord, although not in the social rented sector at the moment. Mr McCann outlined very real problems facing his constituents, and I suggest that there are difficulties facing constituents right across the North. Each of our constituency offices has had to enlist the support of the local authority to enforce what limited legislation is available to ensure that houses are fit for purpose. I have had to get environmental health or, indeed, building control out more than once, but he is right in saying that there is very limited regulation.”
“Like the previous questioner, Mrs Overend, I am very concerned about expenditure delays. Can the deputy First Minister give us some assurances around the evaluation of the projects, given the failures that have happened in establishing and delivering them? Will that evaluation include detail on the number of jobs created, the number of people lifted out of poverty, the additional community cohesion and, indeed, the amount of money spent on consultants?”
“I thank the Member for highlighting some of the delays, but does he agree that the previous Minister Mr McGimpsey said in the House that the predicted rise in cancer across the island of Ireland for these years was somewhere around 27%, that the health service needed more money and that he was scoffed at by the DUP?”
“In particular in these cases, and, as your party colleague, Mr Dickson, referred to, there is an onus on the British Government, which were found guilty by a European court in relation to the delays of those inquests. So, should that not be additional money, over and above, and not be a burden on the DOJ? The British Government are very much in the dock in relation to both the delays and the cost implications of these inquests.”
“The report also says that the legislation around the coroner's office needs to be looked at, and I want to hear from the Minister whether there are any plans to have a programme of work for a new coroner at an early stage, if and when one is appointed. An off-the-starting-block approach should be taken, given that this report is with the Minister's Department. I hope that any coroner appointed is fully au fait with the recommendations. It would be useful to hear from the Minister which of those recommendations he can initiate in the absence of a senior coroner at this stage. Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“I note that some members of Sinn Féin are not yet hanging their heads in shame, but perhaps they should at these junctures. When they make comments like that, they should expect some level of retaliation, in terms of how they have had a responsibility for families not getting closure. Whilst the state has a particular responsibility, and has, I think, a higher standard than terrorist organisations, it, too, should not be allowed to get away in the smoke because I think that there are some 2,000 deaths unaccounted for. That is why some of us are labouring over the issues around dealing with the past at the Stormont House talks, trying to get the best outcome for families, regardless of who created the victimhood and bereavement in their families. <BR /> <BR />I go back to the main script and to some of the recommendations in the report.”
“If there had been a coroner, there was no body for him to examine so that he could give the reason.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Somerville talked about Haass and the implementation of the Stormont House Agreement. Some try to blame the continued delay on republican and nationalist parties not signing up to, or at least delaying, its implementation. However, Eames/Bradley was on the table, and our party firmly believes that it was the better and more comprehensive template for having a better way to deal with the past. <BR /> <BR />I heard Ms McGahan, and I am sorry to say that she has dragged this down in some sense, as if there was a one-sided history. If I may say so, part of the fear that I have heard unionist parties express is that there would be a one-sided accounting for the past. Only recently, two families had the bodies of their sons — Mr McKee and Mr Wright — returned to them after they had been disappeared by the IRA for several years.”
“<BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to Mr Leckey and the leadership that he has shown over many difficult years. We have heard from a number of contributors to the debate thus far of the need for closure for many families, particularly on historical cases. Mr Leckey has been very critical of the failure of the PSNI in the disclosure process, and, often, he has had to come out publicly to criticise the police. As a member of the Policing Board, I take that very seriously. Recently, we asked the Minister of Justice to help to commission a Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) inspection into that disclosure process so that we could get some understanding of the delays, given that the reasons given by the PSNI and those from the coroner's perspective are contradictory.”
“I support the 13 recommendations in the Coroners Service review and ask whether the Minister can give us some rationale for the delay that has occurred. Mr Leckey gave notice of his resignation almost a year ago, yet it was only in September that the job was advertised. More recently, Mr Leckey expressed his concerns, saying that it might be Easter before someone was in post. I noted that, at some stage in Question Time last week — I am not sure whether it was in a written or oral answer — the Minister said that he would write to the Attorney General to look for temporary replacements for members of staff who, I understand, are currently on sick leave. Maybe the Minister can give us an update on that. As Mr Dickson and others said, at the heart of this are families who want closure.”
“One method or approach in a particular area may not work at all in another area. I would like to think that we have moved on from single-identity work and are engaging in real cross-community work.”
“Whilst all this valuable information and research is available to us, there is no point in having a wide array of information and academic analysis if nobody is looking at it. As the Committee has noted, T:BUC needs to be aware constantly of the significant differences between each individual community in Northern Ireland.”
“I will go back to the strategy and the uncertainty created about funding. In particular, short-term funding cycles can cause significant delay in the advancement of important projects, and OFMDFM needs to take stock of the difficulty that is caused to groups that are bidding for funding and attempting to keep projects afloat when they are dependent on short-term, indefinite amounts of funding from the Department. We will not be able to make sure that T:BUC continues to progress reconciliation and shared activity in Northern Ireland if we cannot maintain a consistent, fervent approach on project outcomes and finance. <BR /> <BR />Another interesting aspect of the report is the level and quality of academic work that has been produced on issues such as sectarianism, the effect of the past and coexistent and shared communities.”
“Some of those communities are some of the most deprived communities, where people are living in absolute poverty. It is startling that the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister was found guilty in a court over its failure to deliver an anti-poverty strategy. It seems as if some parties are quite happy that some communities are kept down and kept divided. Maybe that is what helps to ensure that their vote continues to rise, but, as the old saying goes, "You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time".”
“Our young people in particular have lost out on employment and training opportunities because of the failure of politics over the last number of years, and they are being switched off from politics because of the failure to deal with the sectarianism and division that still prevails in our community. The priorities of T:BUC remain crucially important, and the Committee should continue to pursue a budget breakdown for the strategy as evidence that it is being measured and carefully considered. <BR /> <BR />It is also a worry that money is allocated to specific non-related projects, and the subsequent "ad hoc-ery" does little to advance reconciliation or help to improve the lives of those living in turbulent communities in Northern Ireland.”
“I will return to my script. Our party fully agrees with the Committee's call for an interim evaluation of the strategy on how to heal society's divisions and problems. It is a worry that, on page 9 of the report, the Committee identified that it was not possible to obtain a budget breakdown for the lifetime of T:BUC. It could not get even a budget outline; that is how bad it is. I recall the former junior Minister Mr Bell in the Chamber, promising over 100 places to our young people. Those have not yet materialised, to the best of my knowledge. In fact, I believe that pressure was put on the Minister for Employment and Learning to commit to and deliver on that promise under T:BUC without any additional funding. That, in itself, is a major concern.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think that the unusual circumstances in which we find the Assembly and Executive not working is testament to the prevalence and influence of malevolent forces in many of our communities. That is an important point for Mr McCrea to have made.”
“There is still a very long way to travel, and the evidence that the Committee heard about urban interfaces and the malevolent forces that operate in some of them here is a testament to that. I would go further and say that it is not just the physical barriers. There are a number of invisible barriers right across our community that hold back the community. We all look to political leadership and leadership at community level to try to help move society forward.”