Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“Like other Members who spoke on this, I am conscious of the rise, during the lockdown, in the number of domestic abuse incidents that have been reported to the police. It is probably vastly under-reported. I heard from some district policing areas that some of the reports that have come through are from older children who are in the family home as a consequence of lockdown and have seen the abuse. <BR /> <BR />A great deal of work has been done over the last few years by many organisations and individuals to highlight the scar of domestic abuse and violence in society. In the past, it has been very much a taboo subject. Work has been done, and there is a lot more to do.”
“<BR /> <BR />Minister, I am conscious that legislation is one thing, but we need to put some money behind it. Non-legislative arrangements need to be supported, whether it is Women's Aid, refuges or Barnardo's. Those are key organisations that play a vital role in protecting women and in helping to achieve better outcomes for the children who are impacted by domestic abuse and violence. I am grateful to Barnardo's for its policy briefing paper. One of the points that it raises is that children learn what they see and live with. There are issues about how we can break the cycle of violence if we do not put in proper care and counselling and commit to improving outcomes for children who have witnessed domestic violence.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are a couple of points that I want to pick up on, but first I would like some clarity. I understood that the protection orders and notices were already in statute as a result of the 2015 legislation, but that the guidance on that had not been effected because of the suspension of the Assembly. That was one of the responses that I received from the PSNI in the last couple of years when I asked why it had not been enacted. One of the things that prompted me to ask about the protection notices and orders was the number of children who had to flee their homes, along with the mother, while the perpetrator was often able to stay in the family home. There was little by way of refuge for the family. In 2014, something like 11,000 or 14,000 children had to flee alongside a parent.”
“On behalf of the SDLP, I welcome the Bill. Like Paul Givan, I regret the length of time that it has taken. There was much ambition in the 2015 Justice miscellaneous Bill that some of the provisions contained in this legislation would have been in statute long before now. It is right that, over the last number of months, we listened to the key stakeholders, because we were much tempted to piggyback on the Westminster legislation in the absence of a devolved Assembly. It is right and proper that this legislature takes account of the stakeholders and the people of this jurisdiction and puts in place legislation that responds to their concerns. Minister, I welcome your speedy response in making this one of the key priorities of your time in office.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I want to bring some clarity to what was agreed. The political parties sought to act in a responsible way by freeing up Ministers to deal with the crisis at hand. People are dying outside here, and we wanted to ensure that Ministers would be freed up by not having to answer lots of questions. The Health Minister alone, at that point, had over 800 questions on his desk. Therefore, an agreement was reached, as the independents ought to know, and Ministers gave a commitment from the Executive to come before the House to make statements and to answer as many questions as needed from Members, so scrutiny will prevail, albeit in a different way.”
“We need the private residential sector to look after our older people and those with disabilities who cannot be cared for in their own home. I hope that the Minister can give some reassurance to them. <BR /> <BR />Like many others, I wish our Minister of Health all the best. I know that people will look to political leaders, but, as Paul Given said, others will also look to their religious and spiritual leaders and we should remember them today. They too will be on the front line, particularly in the most difficult of circumstances, when funerals are restricted to two. All of the things that we hold dear will not be there for us to hold on to in these most trying of times.”
“They already have to arrest and detain people who claim they have the coronavirus; indeed, we have heard horrendous tales of shopkeepers being spat at or coughed over by people who think it is funny. People are frightened, but they should be frightened, Minister, and I hope that the message will go out. We have rightly concentrated on the people who are most vulnerable and older people, in particular, but many of us already know that there are children in intensive care across these islands who have fallen to this horrendous infection. Therefore, I ask that the public health messaging be stepped up. <BR /> <BR />Another query that has been raised with me by private nursing home care providers is around testing and how government and the private sector can best work together.”
“I will not take long, Minister. There are more questions than answers, but I hope that, in the coming days, the Executive will be able to provide greater clarity than the Westminster Government have. <BR /> <BR />I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board, Mr Deputy Speaker, but also put on record our thanks to the police officers who will have to enforce many of the regulations. Where there is an absence of clarity, their job will be made much more difficult. As Members know and, I hope, recognise, the Police Service of Northern Ireland is the envy of western Europe in human rights compliance, and I hope and trust that that will stand them in good stead.”
“On behalf of the SDLP and, in particular, my party colleague Pat Catney, who worked across a range of community projects with Ivan Davis, I extend our sincere condolences to his wife, extended family and, indeed, his party colleagues. These are difficult times for us all, but, after so many years together, the loss of a father and husband who was, there is no doubt, a guiding hand and presence in the family home, must be acute for them at this time. I extend our condolences on behalf of the SDLP.”
“I very much welcome that cooperation across the divide, but there are also fishermen who are very concerned about the water levels. Minister, will you agree to also meet the fishermen's cooperative at Toome about water levels? I also want to place on record my thanks to your officials for dealing swiftly with the businesses that were under threat from recent flooding around the shores of Lough Neagh, particularly at Kinnego.”
“Minister, you spoke about the difficulty in recruiting for multidisciplinary teams. That will be even more difficult, setting aside the coronavirus and the emergency across our hospitals. Have you given any consideration or had any discussion with Westminster about exemptions for the pensions of recently retired healthcare professionals and whether they will be brought back in or, indeed, those who are in their final years and almost qualified? Are there any discussions ongoing on how to complement the workforce?”
“No doubt, that is a work stream that will require our attention later as decisions are made. <BR /> <BR />The Commission has considered its requirements for 2020-21 in a realistic and measured manner. The amount has been affirmed by the Audit Committee as reasonable. I commend the amounts of £44·847 million for resource DEL and £1·093 for capital expenditure to the House.”
“I have confidence in the integrity of many of my fellow Assembly Members to make the decision for themselves. It is an evolving issue. It took some time to put in place the mechanisms to enable Members to do that. I think that it is very much an issue of individual choice and circumstances. <BR /> <BR />I think that I have replied to the majority of points that were raised. On behalf of the SDLP, and like other contributors, I want to place on record our thanks to Lesley Hogg and her team, who put the budget together. Others have raised particular issues, and, indeed, my colleague Keith Buchanan set out in his opening remarks issues about 'New Decade, New Approach' and its financial implications. We are unable to account for that yet because no decision has been made by the Executive.”
“Yes. These are very personal matters, but some Members have indicated that they will return the money to the central pot. Other Members have particular charities that they want to support and therefore want to direct the money to those themselves. It is very much an individual choice for Members.”
“<BR /> <BR />On modern working practices, the Speaker and others want to look at how we can do our business more efficiently and reduce our carbon footprint. We are very mindful of that, and I hope that, over the next few weeks and months, you will hear more about that. Ms Armstrong raised that particular point for the benefit of the Commission. <BR /> <BR />Mr Carroll raised the issue of Members' salaries. The rise in salary applies from 1 April 2020. An increase of £500 will be paid, totalling approximately £60,000. That increase is mandated, as he well knows, under the 2016 determination issued by the Independent Financial Review Panel and was outwith the control of Assembly Members, although the Commission and individual Assembly Members are making their own decisions about donating the increase to charity.”
“There is also the issue of pay disparity between constituency office staff and staff in the rest of the Assembly and the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS). As you may be aware, a working group has been established to look at that disparity over the next few weeks. We want to see better equality and better security for our staff who are on the front line. <BR /> <BR />There were also issues around the import of the RHI inquiry report and its recommendations. The Assembly Commission is meeting later today, and, as the Speaker addressed in his opening remarks, a number of things will be added to the agenda, including, no doubt, the response to COVID-19, as other Members raised. I look forward to hearing what our Executive colleagues instruct us to do later today.”
“Similarly, the Commission does not consider it to be cautious to the extent of not being sufficient to provide Members with the required services in Parliament Buildings. It represents a balanced budget for the fourth year of the mandate and the anticipated heavy legislative workload. The budget should enable the Commission to manage those pressures while, at the same time, to seek improvements to and innovation in the services that it provides to Members. <BR /> <BR />I will now try to cover some of the points raised by other Members. I turn first to those made by Mr Alan Chambers. There were recurring themes in all contributions, some of which were around security and lone working. In my office, we have had to put in place particular measures to protect lone workers.”
“I thank Members who contributed to the debate. This is the first time that the Assembly has considered the Commission's budget at a plenary sitting. That is important, because the resources that are made available to the Commission will be used to provide services to the Assembly and its Members. When the Commission met to consider its budget proposals, it was mindful of the need to ensure that any expenditure that we incur achieves value for money. We were also mindful of the need to provide the Assembly and every elected Member with all the services that are required to carry out the Assembly's legislative, scrutiny and representative functions. <BR /> <BR />The Commission does not view the budget as excessive.”
“Minister, thank you for your statement. You have been very clear in telling people to be sensible and not alarmist. You will be aware that the Chief Constable called for powers to be introduced here, similar to those being looked at by Westminster, for detaining people who are unwilling to go into quarantine. Are you considering, with the Public Health Agency, to add COVID-19 as one of those infectious diseases that would give the police additional powers following medical assessment?”
“I trust that the Minister will understand and appreciate that my question referred to the Minister for the Economy, thus the use of "she". It was not an attempt to realign his gender in any way. I do not think that people listening will be content with the answer given. People will be thinking that much more needs to be done to help people who have to self-isolate and who are on zero-hours contracts or are self-employed. Will the Minister undertake to urgently address this matter and provide some confidence to the people who are affected?”
“I thank the Member for giving way and welcome his comments and his example. Is it not the case that the Executive, particularly the Communities Minister, alongside the Minister for the Economy, should be looking at a hardship fund for people in the self-employed sector or, indeed, those on zero-hour contracts so that they are supported whilst they have to self-isolate?”
“I welcome the Minister to have a look at that. Will there be collaboration across Departments, given the importance of the fishing industry to Lough Neagh?”
“I welcome the introduction of the domestic homicide reviews. Minister, can you inform the House whether there will be opportunities for learning from other jurisdictions and best practice? How will research be incorporated in the review?”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. Given the cross-border nature of the crime, does the Member share my concerns about the decision of the British Government to drop the European arrest warrant as one of its commitments to Europe? Also, does he share the Chief Constable's concern that there is no updated community safety programme for Northern Ireland? The most recent was published in 2012.”
“Yes. I acknowledge the positive contributions, and I hope that today shows that we are giving political leadership in the challenge to tackle paramilitarism in all its forms.”
“The establishment of the NCA in Northern Ireland was the right thing to do, and the SDLP, in particular, played a key role in providing its code of ethics and accountability mechanisms to the Policing Board. At this point, I acknowledge that I am a member of the Policing Board. We played a key role in establishing the NCA here, but we worry that its resources are spent going after the larger international criminal gangs and that it does not have sufficient focus here in Northern Ireland. That is why the Assets Recovery Agency played such a critical role. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr Frew in particular for his acknowledgement of the SDLP's consistent opposition to violence, both in the past and today.”
“We all want to work towards enabling those people, who, as Christopher Stalford said, made a decision to engage in acts of violence, to transition, but environmental and other factors played a role in their getting involved, not least poverty and deprivation. Therefore, it is important that we help people across the community to make the shift from violence to being a positive influence in our communities. <BR /> <BR />Other Members talked about the Assets Recovery Agency. A challenge was laid down that it should be reinstated in Northern Ireland. I do not think that we would be opposed to that. We all know that over 40 criminal gangs are operating in Northern Ireland alone.”
“<BR /> <BR />Most, but not all, Members recognised the importance that former paramilitaries can play in transitioning. Andrew Muir also mentioned David Trimble's quote:”
“No doubt, the Finance Minister might take that up in his deliberations with the Treasury over the coming days and weeks. <BR /> <BR />Unexplained wealth orders would go a long way in providing confidence to communities and to people who want to step forward. It is not enough today to just have unexplained wealth orders. We also need to look at the financial resources available to other paramilitary combatants in the past, at the affront to democracy across this island that we do not go after criminality and organised crime gangs right across society and at all those who have benefited, both today and in the past, from large-scale smuggling, waste management crimes and all those systems, as Andrew Muir so eloquently put it, that the British Government in particular turned a blind eye to.”
“Many commentators and participants in the debate acknowledged that we as an Executive and an Assembly have a crucial role to play in supporting those who suffer the most and who have been left behind. Twenty-two years on from the Good Friday Agreement, people are still suffering from the violence, extortion, blackmail, drug dealing and criminality of those who call themselves paramilitaries. <BR /> <BR />Many Members acknowledged the difficulty that the separated prison regime causes and the messages that it can send out. I note that the Justice Minister said that she is doing some work on that. I acknowledge the additional cost of such a regime to the prison and the public purse of, I think, some £3 million or £4 million annually, which has not been funded by the Treasury.”
“I acknowledge the cross-party support for the amendment and the motion and thank the Members who took part in the debate. I particularly want to acknowledge the presence of the Ogle family in the Public Gallery, and the bravery of many families who have stood against paramilitarism: those of Paul Quinn, in particular, and Robert McCartney and Lyra McKee. What we see is the coercive control and silence — the omertà — that prevents witnesses from coming forward. It is never too late to come forward. I ask anyone who still has information to give it to the police to help them with their investigations and to bring the perpetrators to justice. <BR /> <BR />The motion, the amendment and, indeed, the Justice Minister's response demonstrate the need for a collaborative approach and for political leadership.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, in dealing with the past, it is imperative that the legacy mechanisms in the Stormont House Agreement are introduced sooner rather than later because we need the truth — the horrible truth — to be told in full about what was done, and we need all those responsible held to account?”
“Does the Member acknowledge the fact that any mapping exercise of the prison population will show up disparities, in that most of the people who are serving jail sentences come from high levels of deprivation and poverty? The link between crime and poverty and deprivation is well established.”
“I am sure that we can all relate to the fact that neighbourhood policing teams are the eyes and ears of the police. They can enable earlier interventions and identify those most likely to be engaged in crime and antisocial behaviour. <BR /> <BR />We propose a collaborative approach across a number of Departments as the only way forward, and we recognise the key roles that the Justice Minister and Health Minister have in driving forward societal change and saving lives. <BR /> <BR />I commend the motion and amendment No 2 to the House.”
“I welcome the reintroduction of neighbourhood policing teams across all council DEAs and hope that the recent PSNI recruitment campaign will enable the Chief Constable to quickly fill the gaps in provision. However, I must remind the Minister that the additional 400 officers are funded through additional money secured for Brexit planning. They will need additional financial commitment from her Department beyond the next two years. <BR /> <BR />As chair of the partnership committee, I was pleased that our recent work enabled the focus to return to policing neighbourhood teams across all areas. That was a key priority for the then Assistant Chief Constable, now Deputy Chief Constable Mark Hamilton, in his delivery on local policing.”
“We need to break the cycle of violence. Any approach will depend on partnerships across a number of sectors such as education, health, social services, housing, youth services, probation and victim services. In particular, it needs communities working together to support measures aimed at getting young people and young adults involved in positive activities.”
“That includes growing inequalities between the haves and the have-nots, hopeless job prospects for many of our young people, the collapse of Youth Service provision through funding cuts, the crisis in mental health care, school failure and expulsion, and outcomes for looked-after children.”
“and reoffending. The Older People's Commissioner accepts that older people are less likely to be victims of crime, but whilst not diminishing the trauma that is experienced by older victims of crime, that subject will be debated more fully tomorrow, and I will concentrate more on younger people. <BR /> <BR />According to the World Health Organization, being male is the greatest risk factor, with 15- to 29-year-old men accounting for three quarters of all homicide victims globally. Being male not only increases the likelihood of being a victim of violence but increases their likelihood of being a perpetrator of violent acts. Our prison population profile underlines that fact. <BR /> <BR />There is a wealth of academic research pinpointing the key risk factors and individuals most at risk of being either victims or perpetrators.”
“<BR /> <BR />No debate on the prevalence of violent crime would be complete without attempting to outline the causal factors behind and the absolute requirement to have, as our motion calls for:”
“Community confidence in policing will be judged on how well the police respond to the low level but high impact of that type of behaviour on the community, but law enforcement is not the only solution. <BR /> <BR />There is little that I can disagree with in the DUP amendment, but it practically rewrites the motion and focuses almost exclusively on a criminal justice response. Therefore, I cannot accept that amendment. <BR /> <BR />Early intervention supporting families, such as the Sure Start programme, must continue to be funded by the Minister for Communities. More investment is needed to provide secure homes for those and their children who flee violence. I trust, Minister, that this is an issue you pick up on with your ministerial colleague Ms Hargey.”
“The establishment of a domestic homicide review team will also, hopefully, help agencies to better understand and red-flag vulnerable individuals to allow for earlier intervention and prevention. <BR /> <BR />The changing drugs market is identified as one of the drivers of the increase in violent crime. The role of alcohol-fuelled violence is also well-documented. Substance misuse is properly reflected in the 'New Decade, New Approach' document, and I welcome the focus of the Health Minister, Robin Swann, on developing a strategy to improve services and take innovative and effective action to reduce alcohol and drug-related harm. The recent focus on low-level drug dealing and tackling the availability of illegal prescription drugs online must continue to be a priority for the PSNI.”
“<BR /> <BR />The comprehensive report by Judge Gillen sets out some 253 recommendations across the criminal justice system, many of which will require additional financial resources if we are serious about supporting victims and bringing perpetrators before the courts. Many others challenge government to work more collaboratively and smarter. Therefore, Minister, I am sure that we will all be keen to hear your response, the steps taken to date and your implementation plan to address those recommendations. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the high priority that the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Policing Board have given to tackling domestic and sexual violence in the draft policing plan for the year ahead. I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board.”
“<BR /> <BR />Police statistics also tell us that there were 983 reported rapes and 2,434 other sexual offences. Crimes against society are also increasing, with 951 drug trafficking offences and 6,957 drug possession offences. Minister, I welcome your commitment and that of your predecessor, Ms Claire Sugden, to put in place stronger legislation to tackle domestic and sexual violence. Across Northern Ireland, eight of the 11 policing districts showed an increase in domestic abuse incidents and all 11 had higher levels of domestic abuse crimes. We can all acknowledge that both those types of crime are vastly under-reported and that much more needs to be done.”
“That equates to 4,975 offences. The biggest rise was in the category "violence without injury", which should be seen in light of changes in recording practice with the harassment classification. Progress is being made on the reporting of hate crime, and I look forward to the outcome of Judge Desmond Marrinan's review. Hate crime is, of course, a motivating factor in many crimes against the person. <BR /> <BR />Tragically, last year there were 26 homicides, whilst a further 167 people died or were seriously injured as a direct consequence of unlawful driving. Behind those statistics are hundreds of personal tragedies — the lives lost, families left bereaved and many others having to struggle with life-changing injuries. Our thoughts are with them today.”
“I am pleased to have the opportunity, on behalf of the SDLP, to present this motion to the House. What should be clear is that the causes of violent crime are complex, and there is no single, simple solution. The motion and the Sinn Féin amendment, which we accept, acknowledge that fact. I am pleased that the Minister of Justice is in attendance for the debate, but I acknowledge that not all the solutions lie with her Department. Tackling violent crime will require an approach that spans right across government. <BR /> <BR />Statistics show that violent crime is increasing. In the 12 months from 1 January to 31 December 2019, 106,604 crimes were recorded in Northern Ireland. That is an increase of 7,300 on the previous 12 months, continuing the increase seen during 2018-19. Violence against the person increased by 14·1%.”
“I have no doubt that the Minister will take the same swift action on that issue as she displayed in ordering lifts for MOT centres. I commend her for keeping drivers on the road through temporary exemption certificates (TECs). Is the Minister considering biennial testing, as is the case in the Republic of Ireland?”
“Will the Minister elaborate on whether the Strategic Investment Board has a role to play in the delivery of capital projects, given the underspend that there has been to date?”
“I welcome the Finance Minister's commitment that it is, in fact, the responsibility of the British Government. Can he tell the House whether he has made representation to the British Government on behalf of those who were injured by terrorist organisations where the likes of Libya funded those terrorist organisations? Does he support the British Government's call for those people to be gone after to put some money into the pot for victims?”
“I thank the Minister for her response and her commitment. I ask the Minister to meet not only ourselves but the stakeholders, some of whom were up here campaigning last week. It is important that we understand the fine level of detail that impacts on what really are difficult times for struggling businesses.”
“Minister, I am sure that everyone will welcome the collaborative approach by the Executive to tackling mental ill health. Of course, it is important to get upstream because many know the contributing factors. What additional budget will we expect to see next week going to mental ill health and tackling the causes of it?”