Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. It is an important piece of work that the Committee has undertaken, and I speak on behalf of my party colleague Alex Attwood, who is a member of the Committee. As you know, Mr Speaker, it is called the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Some listeners might have been a bit confused about whose responsibility the implementation of the strategy is. It is not just the First Minister's; it falls to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that we have a number of problems in trying to resolve the many issues that continue to divide the community in the North of Ireland.”
“Minister, in calculating school capacity, does the Department use its own figures — that is, designated teaching space — or does it use education and library board figures that include space with the potential for dual use, such as assembly halls?”
“Whilst I accept that the level of cuts suffered by your Department, Minister, is extremely high and quite draconian, can you assure the House that the university councils are ensuring that front-line services are, as far as possible, protected and that the luxuries enjoyed by senior academic staff are targeted first in efficiency savings?”
“Mrs Overend made the point that over £8 million of the childcare moneys available to the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister remain unspent, so it is not a case of the money not being there.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. As someone who has had to work all her married life, I find your comment about "child parking" most offensive. I find it offensive as a working mother, and I am sure that other working mothers in the Chamber and, indeed, parents would also find it offensive. I ask you to reflect on that remark and to withdraw it.”
“It is hard to ask to a supplementary question on that, except to welcome the update. Will the Minister, in providing the update, give some insight as to the amount of money, or indeed the time and effort by farmers, that could be saved by reductions in red tape?”
“Minister, you detailed a number of meetings and conversations that you have had. Can you perhaps give us some insight into the product and achievements arising from those discussions and meetings? I appreciate the difficulties. It may be helpful if you refer particularly to the dairy farmers and the help available to them.”
“Minister, the rural development programme has been a very successful programme. Can you perhaps outline the socio-economic benefits of ensuring that not only are businesses helped but that there is that community and social infrastructure? For example, assisting with childcare might be a feature of it. You may be able to tell us a bit more about some of the aspirations of the programme that is coming in.”
“— by not only the Finance Minister but the whole Executive.”
“It is with great regret that I note that the Executive, and OFMDFM in particular, were taken to court by the Committee on the Administration of Justice over their failure to deliver an anti-poverty strategy. You would think that it is something that would be uncontroversial. If we were all putting the needs of the most vulnerable at the heart of our decision-making, we would resolve and collaborate on those issues very quickly. <BR /> <BR />It is not just the Finance Minister who needs to look at how some of the indices are calculated. A former principal of my local primary school told me that free school meals were not a good indicator, as many families are too embarrassed to take them. The uptake of school uniforms would be a much truer reflection of poverty in these areas. There is a job of work to be done —”
“Based on research commissioned by Queen's, I think, local authorities now go out and knock doors and ask people whether they are living in rural poverty and whether they need some help with boiler installation etc. I am not saying that that is the case, but it would be tempting for those officers to hit a hotspot in an urban area, where they could run up and down the street and do about 10 houses in the space of an hour, whereas it would take them two or three hours to cover a rural area. <BR /> <BR />I would like to see some realism injected into the outworkings of NISRA's definition of deprivation and the poverty indicators. I would like to see greater cohesion across the Executive table.”
“Sometimes, people do not like to complain because they think that, if they complain about the services not being great, they will not even get to keep the service that is not so great that they are already getting. There is a greater need for people to look at the reality of service provision and at the definition of necessity versus luxury. Having two cars at a rural home is a necessity. It is half a mile from my house to the nearest school bus stop, and, quite often, the children walked that distance. That is a reality not just for my kids but for many other children. <BR /> <BR />As others have said, a high level of fuel poverty is also experienced by many people. New challenges have been set by DSD, for example, in how the affordable warmth scheme is being delivered.”
“It has stopped paying its staff the mileage to and from homes and it cannot recruit staff. I had to intervene in a case where a person had gone into hospital and was then put into respite care. The family wanted their mother home so that they could care for her, but the trust was unable to provide the home help, or domiciliary care provision, to allow that person to be discharged. <BR /> <BR />The indices that others have referred to during their contributions this afternoon have a real and meaningful impact on how services are provided. Rural people seldom ask for help. As others have said, there is great community support and people do not like to complain.”
“As someone who lives in the townland of the Montiaghs, I am acutely aware of the paucity of service provision and access to public services experienced by rural communities. However, I am sure that many people are prepared to pay some price in lack of access so that they can enjoy the beauty of the Irish countryside. Twenty-first century statistics continue to show that the level of unfit houses that people have to live in across rural Northern Ireland is quite mind-boggling. I think that Fermanagh still experiences the highest level of unfitness. <BR /> <BR />Increasingly, the private sector is providing domiciliary care in the form of home helps, and I have to deal with that issue in my constituency. However, that sector says that it does not particularly want to do that business.”
“We have seen tit-for-tat politics over the last seven years. There have been plenty of photo opportunities but no real, meaningful collaboration across government that puts the people at the heart of government. It is the people's desire that these institutions remain and that we get ourselves sorted out this time once and for all.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over the last number of months, there has been outcry after outcry over the failure of the two main parties in this Government to deliver on simple things like an anti-poverty strategy, a domestic and sexual violence strategy or on racial equality. This institution was built on the promise of equality and the same playing field for all our citizens. That, clearly, has not happened.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the other hand, there were people believing in and voting for a shared future so that my children and their children could live in a peaceful society in which they did not see their neighbours being shot and murdered or discriminated against in jobs and housing. They voted for a better, peaceful way of doing business. It is they who have been betrayed. It is not about each of us who sit in the Chamber proudly representing each of our constituencies being in or out of a job; it is about the hope and ambition of all the people who willed us, who voted for us, to be here.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have spoken to people over the weekend and they are out of their minds and cannot believe that we are in this crisis. They want us to get on with it. They are saying, "For God's sake, get on with the job and create a better future. Get the nurses their pay rise. Get the hospital waiting lists down. Get the schools built." Others are just saying, "We're fed up with the whole lot of you." It does not matter who the guilty parties are; goodness knows there are parties that bear more of the blame than others. When the people voted in 1998, they voted for an absolute end to all violence and to take the gun out of Irish politics. That, clearly, has not happened in the way in which the people had hoped.”
“It is with great regret that I find myself having to speak on behalf of my party on such a topic. The political institutions here came about, if Members need reminded, as a result of a vote and the overwhelming desire of the people here in the North and across the island of Ireland. People voted for three main institutions and they wanted to see delivery on economic and social agendas. We wanted to build a reconciled and shared society, but what we have had, very clearly, are the shenanigans that have been going on over the last number of years. This crisis did not emerge over the last number of weeks. It has been heightened over the last number of weeks but we were heading into a political storm in October anyway because we have not agreed a Budget and we have no shared agenda. We have not agreed what the people wanted us to agree on.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was just asking Mr Allister whether he agreed that the rationale behind my complaint was to stand up for decency; it was not to be a defender of Jim Allister of the TUV.”
“— was to stand up for standards of decency and good behaviour in this House?”
“Will the Member also acknowledge that the reason —”
“It is she who is owed an apology and is the victim of the how the DUP and, in particular, Mr Wilson, conducted themselves.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased that the Committee came to this conclusion, and I hope that somewhere in the depths of the DUP — if not in its Assembly team, perhaps in its council teams, where there were people like Jenny Palmer, who was prepared to put her head up and to stand up and be counted for what is right and good — they can show some respect for democracy. This is a democratic finding. The DUP, after the St Andrews Agreement, were crowing about all the safeguards they had put in place to hold Ministers to account and around the conduct of MLAs, but, yet again, it is the conduct of a DUP Member that is called into question before the House. I very much welcome the findings of the report, and I remind the DUP that, after seven drafts, an apology from Mr Brimstone to Jenny Palmer is, as I understand it, still outstanding.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. As I and Mr McCann said earlier and, indeed, as the Deputy Chair of the Committee on Standards and Privileges eloquently illustrated, my complaint was threefold: the abuse of the Chairperson of the Committee, Mr Alex Maskey; the reference to previous witnesses as "dodgy witnesses"; and, as for Mr Allister, he is well able, I am sure, to defend himself. He is no shrinking violet, I would suggest, and no Member would consider him such. Nonetheless, the DUP, on that day, got out of hand. They disgraced themselves, they disgraced their party, they disgraced the House, and they disgraced the role and function of a parliamentarian.”
“We are not dealing with some novice politician or parliamentarian; we are dealing with an experienced person who serves not only in this Assembly but at Westminster. When I was considering putting forward this complaint, I asked whether that standard of behaviour, which many saw as more a street corner-type approach than one befitting a parliamentary Committee inquiry, would be acceptable in any other jurisdiction. I have to say that the answer that came to my mind and obviously has come in the findings of the Committee on Standards and Privileges and the commissioner was "No, it would not".”
“If anyone was a victim or deserved an apology, it was Jenny Palmer and those who refused to buy into the DUP doctrine of putting the party first. Yet again this evening, as we debate the report, we see that, rather than do their duty as scrutineers and people who are supposed to uphold the best principles of leadership and be role models for young people, younger politicians and the communities that they serve, they put the party first. That is a shame on all of you.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members are right to say that this part of the Committee inquiry was around the findings and reporting of the 'Spotlight' programme and Red Sky. Anyone who watches not only that section of that Social Development Committee inquiry but other sections will see how the DUP deliberately disrupted proceedings and accused all members, including the Chairperson, of not being objective and not carrying out their functions in a proper manner. <BR /> <BR />There is one aspect of this investigation that I regret, which is the finding by the commissioner that the reference to previous witnesses being dodgy was not one that he felt that he could uphold. Quite frankly, I was appalled by the bullying behaviour in the treatment of Miss Jenny Palmer by her party colleagues at that time.”
“I welcome the ruling of the commissioner and the endorsement of that ruling by the Committee on Standards and Privileges. I appreciate that it has been a lengthy investigation, but anyone who observed the Committee for Social Development proceedings on the day the incident occurred could not but have been appalled by the behaviour of Mr Wilson and some of his colleagues in relation to the disruption caused to the work of the Committee. <BR /> <BR />Members would do well to reflect on why they are elected to serve in the Assembly and what their functions are as members of a scrutiny Committee. It is to hold the Minister and the Department to account in the discharge of their functions on behalf of the citizens here in the North.”
“They should reflect on their position and how, in their behaviour and approach to Northern Ireland, they have been one of the most partisan Governments that there has been in a very long time.”
“<BR /> <BR />I know that this is to be a very long day, and I do not want to prolong it unnecessarily. Many Members have commented on the Budget. However, I think that there are few Assemblies, devolved Administrations or Governments that would speak about a Budget in the absence of a Programme for Government or any sense of purpose or collaborative working and Executive decision-making. In this Executive, we are even seeing one Minister taking another Minister to court. Surely what we need to get back to is a sensible working relationship where people respect each other's mandates and make the good of all the community the main priority. The behaviour of the British Government in making welfare a Budget issue is reprehensible.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we want to talk about how we need a Programme for Government and a Budget that is sustainable, we need to deal with some of the fundamental flaws in how this Executive and this society seek to move forward in building a better future for all of us. Today, we have seen an Auditor General report on how some of the systems in education are putting increased pressure on the priorities of government because of the cost of a lack of sustainability of some schools and how there are some difficult decisions to be taken. When Members and Ministers talk about some parties not being up to making some of the difficult decisions, they should reflect on some of their own leadership and decisions. They have a responsibility to move all of society forward.”
“I regret to say that we in the SDLP will not be able to support this Budget at this stage. It is, of course, a Budget that is without a Programme for Government. As many Members have said, in times of austerity, you start to look at how you can work better together and more collaboratively. We are not seeing that. Some Members have also talked about the cost of division. Only in the last couple of months, the Chief Constable said in answer to me that the cost of policing a divided society is some one third of the overall police budget, which, as you are aware, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, equates to up to £200 million.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention and that information. He will appreciate, of course, that I am not privy to whichever papers are being held up in the logjam that is OFMDFM. I guess that it sits on the same shelf as the anti-poverty strategy, a fulsome childcare strategy, the gender equality strategy and the racial equality strategy. I think that we in this party, along with many people in the community and across the non-governmental organisations would have greater confidence in the ability of the Executive if they were to deliver a Budget that actually prioritises the needs of our people above party interest. We are going to have a debate later today on a matter where we have seen party interest coming well before proper probity in the behaviour of some Members.”
“We have not seen any proposals coming from the Minister for Employment and Learning or others on zero-hours contracts and the implications that they have, particularly for many young people and many working women.”
“We are left in a situation in which we are being asked to accept a Budget that will fundamentally change in early July. <BR /> <BR />If some of the whispers emerging from Westminster are to be believed, the Tory Government's target on 8 July will primarily be the working poor. Family tax credit and working tax credit are where I am informed the cuts will fall. I say that based on recent reports, including one from only yesterday in which the Office for National Statistics (ONS) found that the average household income of working families here is almost £6,000 less per family compared with regions across GB. That is something that should worry all of us.”
“I am sure that it will not come as any surprise that the SDLP remains consistent in its approach to the Budget and in its concerns about it, which we expressed back in February. Unlike some, we did not believe that it was the "best deal possible", as our deputy First Minister stated at the time. The concerns that we have are exacerbated by the impending statement by the Chancellor on 8 July. Many Members have referred in their contribution to the Stormont House Agreement, yet the Budget that was agreed in the context of the Stormont House Agreement has been reneged on significantly already by the Tory Government, with some £38 million in in-year cuts. I appreciate that the Finance Minister may say that they are delaying the cuts until next year, but that is only symptomatic of how further cuts are being kicked down the road.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Does he accept that the "donkeys", as he referred to them, at Westminster are more concerned with the well-being of their colleagues in the City of London than with their constituents, whom they were elected to serve?”
“With all due respect, my question was just about the capacity in pensions branch. Can the Minister assure the House that pensions branch has the capacity, in staff resources, to deal with the requests?”
“Does the Minister share my concern in relation to the recent findings of a report by the Office for National Statistics, which said that, on average, the income of an average household here is some £6,000 less than any other region within the United Kingdom? That being the case, as well as the predicted onslaught on working tax credits and child tax credits in 8 July Budget, what representations, if any, has she made to the Department for Work and Pensions?”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister will review all applications for such advice to see how that might be better incorporated into the Bill and what might be learned for the outworking of pensions. I hope that there will be a commitment from the Minister to work closely with the trade unions to explain these technical issues to people. <BR /> <BR />I do not know about you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, but my children's plans are to live off the bank of mum and dad for as long as possible and, when we kick our heels up, to sell our house and live off the benefit of that. Those are the only plans that I see my children having at the moment, so it is important that we get it right and set up the proper regulatory framework whilst safeguarding members' interests.”
“I will keep my head down. <BR /> <BR />I was most concerned about adequately safeguarding members' interests. The Minister was at pains to point out the importance of balanced and appropriate financial regulation versus the need to safeguard people's interests. Given what we have experienced from 2007 with a lack of adequate and appropriate financial regulation, I hope that the Minister will consider the review's guidelines and the advice given to members. <BR /> <BR />Some Members talked about the impact of taking money out early, so it is important to have good sound independent financial advice. Is it also important for the Minister's Department to provide sound financial advice. Has advice been readily available for people who contacted the Department, and has it been the best advice possible?”
“I apologise for having to leave at about 12.30 pm. I have a previous meeting arranged, so apologies if I am not here for all the Members' contributions and the Minister's winding-up speech, but hopefully we will be brief. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up where Ms Bradley left off about the disproportionate impact on women and her comments on young people. Our party also has a concern about zero-hours contracts. I know that it is not the responsibility of the Social Development Minister, but I hope that he will bring influence to bear in discussions around the Executive table as to whether zero-hours contracts should be allowed in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Minister, I know that you declared an interest, as did many, but some Members may already be on a pension. I am not mentioning names or looking at anybody in particular.”
“Thank you. Minister, you will be aware that I wrote to you recently in the aftermath of the tragedy. I hope that we can also promote the website Get Safe Online as an information tool. Given that there has been a death as a result of cyberbullying, has the Minister any plans for a critical incident analysis? Despite all the safeguards, policies and procedures, somehow or other, what was happening to Ronan was not brought to the attention of the school authorities, and he did not know where to turn to for help.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Bearing in mind his earlier comments and concerns about child poverty, does he share my concern about the recent indications from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that there will be further cuts to child tax credit? In Northern Ireland, that means a potential loss of £2,000 a year for 89,000 families, all of whom are working families.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will not delay the House as I know that there is, potentially, a long evening ahead of us. I place on record my thanks to my policy staff, colleagues, the staff in the Bill Office — primarily Aoibhinn, once again — and the Minister. I ask the Minister to convey my thanks to his colleagues in the Department of Justice for working so closely with us in ensuring that the amendments meet the principle and the spirit that I had hoped they would contain when I first tabled them. I thank you all for that.”
“<BR /> <BR />What has been particularly exciting about the Justice Bill is the first group of amendments because they are primarily designed to afford better protection to victims of crime and, indeed, witnesses of crime. I commend Members who tabled amendments with that spirit and intent, today and at Consideration Stage. <BR /> <BR />As an Assembly and Executive, we will need to work in a much more collaborative way on resourcing better counselling services and better investment in refuges etc for victims of domestic violence, but that is, perhaps, a debate for another day. <BR /> <BR />Having spoken to some of the organisations and victims of domestic violence, I know that they are heartened by the way in which parties have approached this most sensitive of matters and by the party support for the principles behind these amendments.”
“I am delighted to be able to speak to the amendments to clause 19. As others have said, the Minister has delivered on his commitment to our party by tabling amendments on the domestic violence protection notices (DVPNs) and the domestic violence protection orders (DVPOs), which are, as other Members said, designed better to protect victims of domestic violence. I thank all Members for their support and comments. As Mr Frew said, the Minister acknowledged the disclosure scheme by giving a commitment for wider consultation later in the summer or in the autumn. I look forward to that. As a party, we will certainly respond to that consultation, and I urge all Members to have their say.”
“I am pleased to say that I was able to ensure that reducing rural crime was a target in the policing plan.”
“Have you had any correspondence with Minister Coveney in the light of the suspected BSE breakout over the border in Louth?”