Dolores Kelly
Upper Bann · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“The legislation is only as good as its enforcement. It will be enabled by the sentences that judges and others may hand down, by cultural shifts and by changes in behaviour because of the penalties in place as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />We need to do much more with cybercrime units. We need proper resources for them.”
“It also covers the background to the Good Friday Agreement and the creation of this Assembly, as well as subsequent political negotiations over the years. The major figures and events over the past 100 years have been reflected in a way that ensures that all political perspectives of the Assembly are reflected.”
“I thank the Member for his question. An update on the current COVID-19 health and safety measures was issued to all users of Parliament Buildings on 1 March 2022. The update set out the current arrangements for ensuring the continuing safety of everyone in the Building.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to inform him that the review of the display of artefacts is at a very advanced stage. The Member may have seen the letter that the Speaker issued on behalf of the Assembly Commission earlier today.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, I receive updates on a regular basis from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has determined that between 16,000 and 23,000 children and young people are at risk from sexual offences and grooming online. Those are horrendous figures, and that must be a nightmare scenario for any family.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. You rightly outlined a lot of medical and therapeutic interventions, but many children are suffering post-traumatic stress-type symptoms or, indeed, social isolation as a consequence of COVID.”
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“I co-signed the motion, and, in my winding-up speech, I am not going to answer on behalf —.”
“I have not heard that from any of the Benches, although some might suggest that it is the case. There is an obligation, as Mr Muir said, to get reconciliation. In moving Northern Ireland forward, Mr Storey, we need to get to the truth of the past, and people need reconciliation.”
“We need to know which state agent was involved, who authorised the murder and their level and who was complicit in the 30-year cover-up. A narrowly focused police investigation will not find that out, and nor will an even more narrowly focused Police Ombudsman process. Only a fully effective public inquiry, with wide-reaching terms of reference and, importantly, the powers to compel, can discover the truth. We have seen the resources that the Police Ombudsman and the legacy bodies such as the HET require, yet their work has been severely hampered and cut back over the past few years. Some argue that not giving sufficient resources to those agencies is in itself a breach of article 2. <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew talked about other murders and a hierarchy of investigations. As I said at the beginning, no one here wants a hierarchy of victims.”
“Many Members highlighted the fact that, over two years ago, the UK Supreme Court found that previous reviews carried out by Lord Stevens, Justice Cory and Sir Desmond de Silva failed to meet the requisite investigative standards of article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights even when they were considered cumulatively. <BR /> <BR />There are questions, and one that many people pose is: what are the British Government trying to hide? We know that Pat Finucane was murdered in front of his family — Ms Mallon laid that out very clearly — and that there were shocking levels of state collusion in the murder because David Cameron apologised for it. We do not know, as Mr Kelly said in his opening remarks, the details and how far up the chain of command the collusion went.”
“The statement by the Secretary of State, Brandon Lewis, which referred to a police review of papers and a Police Ombudsman investigation, was simply a smokescreen and, as such, a further insult to the Finucane family and those who have supported them in their 30-year fight for truth and justice in the case. <BR /> <BR />Twenty years ago — many Members referred to this — the European Court of Human Rights delivered a damning judgement in Finucane v UK. The court found that the UK had breached the right to life, as protected by article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights, through the flawed investigations, including those of the RUC, into Pat Finucane's murder. The Secretary of State has failed to honour a commitment to hold an independent public inquiry into the murder following the UK and Ireland's Weston Park Agreement in 2001.”
“The Stormont House Agreement deals with those who were killed and murdered during the Troubles, not those who were heinously injured and still live with the consequences of that. Let us not muddy the waters: it never was, nor should it ever be, about an amnesty. <BR /> <BR />The case of Pat Finucane is of profound importance for society in Northern Ireland and those who believe in the rule of law. All the Members whom I heard contribute to the debate condemned the murder of Pat Finucane, and many condemned the refusal of the UK Government to hold a proper independent inquiry into the murder.”
“I have heard elements in the British establishment talk about drawing a line. I have also heard it from other people outside here who may be well intentioned but perhaps have not had the level of engagement with victims that some of us have been privileged to have in getting to know them. For the Finucane family, like the Ballymurphy families, time stood still, and they still want answers. <BR /> <BR />I will address the concerns that Mr Beattie raised, as did some others, including Mr Carroll, about the Stormont House Agreement. Let us be very clear: the Stormont House Agreement is not an amnesty for anyone. That is why the British Government are looking at ways of drawing up an amnesty. Mr Beattie's point, which I understand completely, was about those who were severely injured.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I have not heard too many in the House talk about drawing a line in the sand and moving on.”
“Every day is the same. All of us in the House recognise that. All grief transcends.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am very mindful of the many families affected, as many contributors across all Benches said at the outset of their contributions to the debate. I recall that, when I was first elected as an MLA, one of the first constituents to visit was an elderly lady who sought my help to access the victims' fund for help with household furniture. She told me about the last day on which she saw her son. Her son, an innocent young man, was going to work when he was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries. On that morning, as he left for work, he turned at the end of the drive to wave goodbye to his mother. She said that, every morning, that was the first thing that she saw when she got up. For her, and for the many hundreds and thousands of bereaved families across Northern Ireland and beyond, there is no drawing a line in the sand.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member also state the fact that the Secretary of State holds the power to invoke national security by withdrawing and refusing the disclosure of information to any inquiry that is established under that Inquiries Act?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member address Mr Frew's point about how it should never be about one family over another?”
“I also know that priests who officiated at funerals advised mourners in advance that they should not even gather in church grounds or cemeteries and should be very aware of and alert to their individual responsibilities to keep themselves and others safe. <BR /> <BR />People can spin it in whatever way that they want. The police have questions to answer about the planning. Political leaders have to help to rebuild the confidence in policing that is vital to any democracy. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear: in my view and in that of many ordinary people who knew what the spirit of the regulations meant, there is a political elite in the republican movement — Sinn Féin, in particular — who believes that the regulations do not apply to it. That is where a lot of the blame lies.”
“As I have said on numerous occasions, the infographics on the motorway for anyone travelling down to Belfast stated, "Stay at home", or asked, "Is your journey essential?". Indeed, on many occasions in the lead-up to this funeral, the deputy First Minister asked people to stay at home and not to go out if they did not need to do so. <BR /> <BR />I note that the police, quite rightly, put safety and security above the COVID regulations in a broader sense, but there are questions about from where the violence would come had COVID regulations on funerals, or the spirit of those regulations, been implemented by the police in the way that they have been at other funerals. I know that the police spoke to mourners at funerals in and around the Lurgan area because there seemed to be a large number of cars outside churches.”
“We welcome the HMICFRS report. As a member of the Policing Board, I will have to reflect further on its findings. A number of issues with the planning of the funeral were raised. <BR /> <BR />This is not a green and orange issue, and I would regret its ever turning into one. Mr Storey's family is grieving, but so are the families of over 2,000 others, people who were unable to be at the bedside as their loved one gasped for breath. They were not there when their loved one was being lowered into the ground. Whilst there are many criticisms of the regulations in this report, and there are questions about the interpretation of the regulations by the Health Department's legal adviser and the interpretation of HMICFRS's legal advisers, the spirit of the regulations was clear.”
“My party wishes to be associated with the condolences to Mr Lynch and his family. I know that he lost his father last year as well. I am sure that it has been a terrible time, particularly with COVID and all the restrictions that that imposes on a family.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst I primarily want to congratulate the Minister, I also ask if she can provide further information on the active travel measures and if she foresees benefits for the local economy and tourism as well as for health and well-being; indeed, Mrs Foster referred to those. In thinking of those in my constituency and in other areas across the North who want to see more active, greener and cleaner infrastructure in our communities, will she further commit to more measures across Northern Ireland? I think in particular of the Ulster canal greenway project. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for her time today, and I look forward to further information in her remarks. I also thank Ms Dolan for securing the debate.”
“I know that everyone will welcome the announcement that the Minister is not just delivering a road scheme but seeking to introduce measures to green our infrastructure in our towns when doing the big road schemes. Today's announcement that active travel measures will be introduced to Enniskillen town is much welcomed, and I know that those measures will be a huge benefit to the local community, which can now look forward to a walking, wheeling and cycling infrastructure that will bring health and well-being opportunities as well as better, cleaner, greener connectivity choices for citizens. Those are important measures, particularly given our debates today and yesterday on the challenge of the climate emergency.”
“After three years of no government and years of dither and delay from others, it is great to have a SDLP Minister who is prepared to work, deliver and get change done for our communities. I agree with the proposer of the topic, Ms Dolan, when she says that the people of Fermanagh have waited too long. That is strange, coming from a Member whose party colleagues held the post on at least two occasions in recent years but we did not see earlier progress. I look forward to the Member's support for our Minister asking the Finance Minister to speed up the implementation and delivery of the project.”
“True to her word, our Minister has stepped up with this project to tackle regional imbalance, improve the economy and better connect communities, while improving road safety.”
“I thank the Member for securing this important and timely debate. Many of my colleagues in the west are delighted to see the progress on the Enniskillen bypass that the Minister has announced. This is a long-awaited project, and it will mean a lot to many people in the area that the SDLP has once again put the needs of local people, in Enniskillen and beyond, first. We should all commend the Minister for her focus and tireless work to make progress on these schemes, particularly at a time when she has been so busy restoring services across the North and building back better from COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />We in the SDLP went into government to play our part in delivering the change that our citizens deserve.”
“If biodiversity and the various species are to be protected and enhanced, communication and cultural values must form part of the Minister's strategy.”
“It is interesting. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right. I know that the Minister is looking at the rural development policy and at how we invest in diversification. Special attention has to be paid to those whose livelihoods depend upon the peatlands. They have to be asked to rethink and to be guardians of much of the land that they own. Communication and education have to be at the centre of a peatlands strategy. I am only finding out about it, yet I grew up with it and loved it and knew about the native species such as the corncrake.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention because I think that his point is well made. I am not sure whether it is the Minister who is before an examination with a vote later this week or Mr Wells so that he can be allowed back into the fold.”
“That is something that we would now frown upon, but, in those days, much of it was borne of necessity, as it provided a fuel that people could not otherwise afford and did not have many other options available to them.”
“I also ask that that evaluation look at the greenhouse gas emissions inventories as well as reporting successes because we need to learn from best practice elsewhere. Indeed, I think that it was Mr Blair who referred to the investments that the other jurisdictions in these islands are making and the targets that they are setting. I implore the Minister to include similar asks in his strategy. <BR /> <BR />I also think that communication is important. It is only over the past few years, I have to confess, that I have learned of the importance of peatlands to decarbonisation, which Mr Wells highlighted. Where I come from, we call it turf rather than peat. In north Antrim, my father-in-law cuts peat, whereas my grandfather cut turf. I used to go with him when he was cutting the turf down in the moss.”
“In the short time that is available to me, however, I will touch specifically on a strategy that, hopefully, the Minister will soon publish and consult on, as well as on the importance of monitoring and reporting, which are key elements of any strategy going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />I join others in commenting on the courage and tenacity of the firefighters and, indeed, the local community on the evening of the fire in the Mournes. I also join Mr Blair in marking the fact that the 10 people who were murdered by British Army forces in Ballymurphy have been found innocent today. I pay tribute to them and to their families, who have not only restored their relatives' reputations but highlighted some of the truth of the past, which the Secretary of State seems determined to bury. <BR /> <BR />I will return to the debate in hand, I know that a number of Members have spoken about peatlands and woodlands and the importance of those environments for rewilding.”
“I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate. The Minister will know the area that I speak of fairly well, as it is in a neighbouring constituency. I am from the townland of the Montiaghs, and some people may know that it takes seven Derries to make a Montiagh. The area in which I was born is called Derrymore, and "Doire Mór" means "big oak tree", but no one would know from where we get our place names, because of a lot of the woodland and native species have all but disappeared. Indeed, Mr Wells will know it exceptionally well, particularly Portmore Lough, where we have the excellent RSPB sanctuary. The preservation of the lowland around Portmore Lough is managed by the RSPB, which I commend for its efforts.”
“I welcome the Minister's outline. Last week, Minister, you made an announcement about grants for Lough Neagh fishermen: will you confirm that the applications should come from licensed eel and scaled-fish fishermen?”
“I am sure there will be another opportunity to say it, but I offer my best wishes to the First Minister and hope that she will look forward to spending time with her family, some of whom will not have known her outside of political life. Having that family time together will be precious to her and to them. <BR /> <BR />With regard to the Communities in Transition funding, the junior Minister referred to the next round of funding allocation and the review. What will be the objectives for the next round of funding? Will we see a greater integration and opportunity for others, outside of those who have already successfully received some of that funding? Will some of that money be skewed towards better outcomes in tackling poverty and low educational outcomes?”
“I support the Minister's assessment that the issue is a cross-cutting one. An advocacy service had been planned for later this year: I wonder whether she can provide the House with an update on it?”
“I join my Upper Bann colleague to promote the central area of Craigavon as a suitable location for a rail halt. I welcome the commitment by the Minister and Translink to the improvements at Lurgan railway station. However, Minister, there is a lack of integration between bus and rail services. The central area has a huge manufacturing base. What dialogue have you had with your Economy Minister colleague in the Executive about the integration of transport? What consultation or information is shared between Ministers on those matters?”
“I thank the Minister for her answers. Whilst we all recognise that many civil servants have been working very hard throughout the pandemic, a recent court judgement gave a damning indictment of civil servants in her Department. I hasten to add that their time predated her tenure as Minister. Does she share my concerns about that, and what actions will be taken as a consequence?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he acknowledge that the police sent 24 files for prosecution?”
“I hope that you reflect on what damage you have done, not only the hurt that you have caused to people across Northern Ireland but the way in which you have dragged policing into the debate by your actions".”
“Mary Lou McDonald said that it was "chaotic and unstable" government and that people must and should be held to account for it. Do the same principles not apply in the North? Is that a partitionist attitude from Sinn Féin? Do those principles apply only to every other party on the island of Ireland but not to them? That is the question that, I hope, some of them will address. Mary Lou McDonald said that one of the representatives, Phil Hogan, should resign and that it was clear that he had lost the confidence of government. I say to Sinn Féin today, "You have lost the confidence of Members of this House because of your failure to take responsibility and your failure to set the same standards for yourselves as you do for others.”
“I still have time, if Ms O'Neill or, indeed, Mr Murphy want to stand and give their apologies, but I do not hear them. The silence is deafening. <BR /> <BR />We have seen the reports in the papers and heard people who are not normally on the air waves say how deeply hurt and angry they are at what has happened. It is right that that anger and hurt is acknowledged in the Chamber, the Chamber where people are elected to be the voice of the people. That is right and proper, for this is the only democratic Chamber. <BR /> <BR />If these people had anything about them, they would reflect on their actions and what they have said. Last July, there was a scandal in Clifden in the South of Ireland, now known as "Golfgate".”
“Yes, there are questions for the police to answer. I have just finished a private meeting of the Policing Board. Later, there will be a public opportunity to hear the Chief Constable and the senior officer team being held to account for their decision making, and it is right and proper that that be done. However, the Members to my right have questions to answer. I do not know what part of the public message on the motorway they did not understand. Many of them saw it as they drove down the M1 to go to that wake house or funeral. Did they not know what "Stay at home" meant? The rest of us knew, stayed at home and made the sacrifice, alongside our friends, neighbours and people across this community. The political elitism and arrogance of Sinn Féin is beyond belief.”
“People could not call at a house and give comfort to people who had lost loved ones. Families had to draw lots to see who could attend their family member's funeral.”
“The political elite in here are the Members to my right. They have set themselves above all others in society, who have followed the rules and regulations. <BR /> <BR />I regret the fact that the police are the boys and girls caught in the middle because, today, there are police officers out on the beat protecting our community and putting their lives at risk. It is not right that they have been put in that position. The PPS made it clear that there was a lack of clarity in the interpretation of the regulations. Who signed and put into law those regulations and restrictions? I will give way to Ms O'Neill if she wants to make a full apology for offending not only the people in the House, because this is not a green and orange issue, and it reflects the anger and hurt that is felt across the community.”
“Having to stand here today does not fill any of us — certainly not me — with any great sense of joy. Today, we have to remember that people are burying their loved ones under the COVID restrictions and will not get the send-off that they deserve or the comfort that the family needs. We, as a party, had to bury colleagues of ours and adhere to the determinations and restrictions. We had no confusion about it: it was "Stay at home and limit the numbers attending". We buried someone who won the Nobel peace prize. We buried John Dallat, a man who gave his whole life to public service without any political elitism and without the trappings that others also did not receive. Members across the way recently buried their party colleague Jimmy Spratt, another man who dedicated his life to public service.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board. Last week, along with the chief executive and the chair of the Policing Board, I had the privilege of launching the police property fund, to which I alert Members' attention. If there is work that can be done that meets community safety requirements, small grants of up to £10,000 are available through the scheme. If parent-teacher associations or boards of governors have charitable status, they might consider working alongside their PCSP or their local neighbourhood team to see whether they can run some education programmes. There is only up to £1,000 capital available, however, as the scheme is primarily about education. That might be an idea for some Members to take back to their relevant schools.”
“I thank the Member for his question. You will have noted from my initial response that no member of staff was made redundant and that people were redeployed to other necessary duties, such as sanitising, in line with the COVID restrictions. I assure the Member that that remains the position of the Commission. No staff were furloughed either, in line with many other public bodies. We have a very tight-knit and dedicated workforce here, who look after the needs of Members and the public. Their interests form part of the broader considerations, as well as value for money and the public purse.”
“As the Member will know, we are guided by the health regulations that pertain not only to this place but to all facilities and all providers of services across Northern Ireland. We hope that, in the forthcoming debates and Executive meetings in April and thereafter, and as the statistics continue to improve and the vaccination programme continues to roll out, we will be in a better position to start to look at whether visitors can return. The Commission will debate that at our next meeting. We had anticipated that the health regulations would prevent the public from entering the Building until at least the end of April. However, we hope that we will start to have some further relaxations from mid-April onwards, which, one hopes, will assist with catering income.”
“Therefore, the staff costs of this additional and necessary sanitising are included in the catering cost between April 2020 and August 2020. That was the case until a formal variation to the contract, agreed and introduced from September 2020, recorded the hours dedicated each week to this task.”
“Additionally, the Commission did not seek funding for that increase in costs over the past year, as it was able to deliver savings across its other categories to meet the increase. <BR /> <BR />The Member will know that the catering and cleaning contracts are held by the same contractor. One of the measures taken in response to the coronavirus pandemic was to allocate a number of catering staff to sanitising duties for hand-contact areas etc throughout Parliament Buildings.”
“<BR /> <BR />Due to the extremely low footfall in Parliament Buildings during the pandemic, sales in the catering outlets have been severely reduced. The reduction in the level of sales has led to an increase in costs, given the reliance on sales income to assist with offsetting the catering operating cost. By way of comparison, from April 2019 to February 2020, the cost of catering was £157,000, while, during the pandemic, from April 2020 to February 2021, the cost was £327,000. <BR /> <BR />The Member may wish to note, however, that the majority of the costs to the Commission arise from the costs of staffing in the catering facilities. In line with other publicly funded entities, the Commission did not request that the catering contractor make any member of staff redundant during the period.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Assembly Commission requires that catering services are provided to Members and all other Building users during all the hours when the Assembly is operating. During sitting times that are uncertain or out of the ordinary — for example, the later-than-normal times that have occurred recently with plenary sittings — catering services continue to be provided until 30 minutes after the House rises. Where the cost of providing those services exceeds the money taken in through catering sales, the extra cost is incurred by the Assembly Commission. That operating cost is sometimes referred to as a "subsidy", and it varies on a monthly basis depending on the level of sales in the catering outlets.”
“Minister, in your response, you highlighted a number of other funding streams. It is my understanding that £1·4 million is to be shared between two community and voluntary sector organisations, Community Restorative Justice Ireland and Alternatives, for restorative practices under recommendation B4. That is a substantial amount of funding. There are also statutory agencies responsible for restorative justice. When was the most recent review of value for money in delivery and in working alongside the PSNI across all its crime sections?”