Paula Bradshaw
South Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“They were places where those who were vulnerable were concealed, young mothers were stripped of their babies and children were stripped of their identities. Let us be resolute in our remembrance of what happened behind the doors of those institutions.”
“At all stages, the Committee has set out its clear support for the legislation's overarching aims and principles, which are to establish a statutory public inquiry into the systemic failings associated with mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and workhouses between 1922 and 1995 and to create a statutory redress scheme for t…”
“Again, I refuse to call them "mother-and-baby homes", for we now know that there was nothing homely about them. What the Bill can and must do is offer a tangible declaration that the state accepts its responsibility.”
“As Chairperson of the Committee for the Executive Office, I welcome the opportunity to speak at the Final Stage of the Inquiry (Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene Laundries and Workhouses) and Redress Scheme Bill.”
“Key points were also made in relation to redress: the need to ensure that the Executive Office introduces clear guidelines for the scheme as soon as practicable; the need for the Executive Office to widely communicate and promote the scheme to all victims and survivors, including those who live overseas; and the need for the Executive Off…”
“The First Minister and deputy First Minister tabled a number of amendments that gave effect to the Committee's intent across a number of clauses. In several instances, the Committee chose to withdraw its amendments in favour of the Ministers' wording, where that better reflected the broader book of the law.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Nevertheless, we need to be clear that other parts of the UK abolished car parking charges seven years ago. We need to send a clear message that the wait in Northern Ireland has to end. The Department and the health trusts have had those years to prepare. They even had the clear indication during the pandemic that free parking for staff should be deliverable. That is why I do not want to walk way from this mandate without legislation that delivers free parking as a bare minimum for HSC staff and regular visitors to hospital. The Bill, if amended, will deliver that. <BR /> <BR />Alongside amendment No 2, amendment No 1 is about accomplishing the optimum balance where free car parking is assured in law and where reasonable time and clarity are given for arrangements to make it a reality without those unintended consequences.”
“The Minister was correct in his contention that the only way to deliver free hospital parking on the day after Royal Assent or even within six months of it would be simply to lift the barriers. There would be absolutely nothing in the Bill, as originally drafted, to stop someone parking in the City Hospital in my constituency to go to work, to shop on the Lisburn Road or to take part in another pursuit that had nothing to do with accessing healthcare and avoid car parking charges elsewhere. That would simply see hospital car parking crammed full early in the day by people with no connection to the hospital. That would be a clear detriment to Health and Social Care (HSC) staff, patients and visitors, who have good reason to be there at particular times but would then, potentially, face long waits just to get parked.”
“<BR /> <BR />For the sake of brief clarification, we should be clear that we heard in Committee and from other research that free car parking is definitely deliverable. It has, after all, been delivered in Scotland and Wales. However, it was also made clear in evidence given to the Committee that the process of delivering it is not always smooth. Difficulties have applied, particularly in urban areas near city centres. We could never have claimed that those difficulties were unforeseeable had they happened here. <BR /> <BR />A particular risk was the unintended consequence of hospital parking simply ceasing to be available for those who need it. Let us be clear: that is what this is all about.”
“I support the Bill and all of the amendments from the Minister. We were not able to debate fully at Consideration Stage the issues that amendment No 2 addresses, but I had long thought that we needed to review the commencement date. Had we left it at six months or even reduced that period, it would have caused foreseeable detrimental impacts. <BR /> <BR />Fundamentally, the Bill's objectives are sound, and I commend the original and current proposers for pursuing its key principle. However, the Bill in its original form was not the best possible legislation to achieve its stated objectives. There were obvious consequences that would have meant that the outworking of the Bill would have been different from what was clearly intended on parking; in fact, it would have made things more difficult for some.”
“<BR /> <BR />There remain in the Bill, even as amended, serious ongoing issues of document preservation. The most fundamental is how we ensure the preservation of relevant documents even if they are not held within this jurisdiction or by a public body. I urge an incoming Executive Office Committee to take that forward as a matter of the highest priority.”
“I appreciate that being read into the record. There is an unease around government procedures and whether there is full transparency. It is the same with the institutional childhood abuse victims and survivors. A lot of people are watching on with interest to see how we are handling this very sensitive part of their journey. <BR /> <BR />Questions have been raised about the legislative process. I fully accept that we are a long way from an ideal process. However, we need to be aware that many issues and voices that need to be heard will not be heard as we rush this through over the next week. On balance, the Bill, as it stands, is better than no Bill, but, whether in this or the next mandate, we still have work to do to improve upon it and the other recommendations in the panel's report. We absolutely must not bank this and walk away.”
“To touch on a previous point and to re-emphasise it, I will say that some institutions that accepted children from Northern Ireland were open as recently as 2006. <BR /> <BR />I want to raise another point that I raised in last week's debate about the establishment of the repository. The Member for North Belfast Carál Ní Chuilín mentioned that there are plans to potentially house that repository in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI). Between last week and this week's debate, some of those who were affected by the mother-and-baby homes contacted me because they were concerned about the full independence of such an arrangement, not least because, if the repository were housed in PRONI, it would be subject to limitations in freedom of information requests, and those can be —”
“<BR /> <BR />There remains a fundamental question about the acquisition and subsequent preservation of records from other jurisdictions, which affects children who were born or later resident in Northern Ireland. I also wonder whether we need to go a little further in order to ensure that the Bill encompasses records that have been kept into this century. Three amendments touch on that point. Amendment No 3 removes the "two consecutive months", as it is recognised that that is inappropriate. Amendment No 4 removes unnecessary specifics, and amendment No 2 is consequential to that. However, have we done enough to amend "the relevant period", which is defined in clause 2(6) and applied in clause 3?”
“I wonder whether we need to do more to define "relevant institution" and not just "relevant document" in clause 2. For example, what do we do if an agency has been reinvented or if it no longer exists? Where are its records and what can be done to ensure their preservation? <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, there is a hint in all the amendments that the legislation is not as extensive as it could be. For example, children in mother-and-baby homes were often transferred over the border, not least in cases where a diocese extended across the border. However, in all likelihood, there will be ongoing limitations to the reassurance that, under clause 1, relevant documents will be preserved where, for example, a child was no longer resident in Northern Ireland.”
“I support the Bill and the amendments. It bears emphasising that bodies such as the Youth Justice Agency and Compensation Services have been cooperating fully with the Victims' Payments Board on the provision of records as requested. All Crown Court and custodial records that are in the possession of the Youth Justice Agency are marked for permanent preservation. <BR /> <BR />Bodies such as the Victims' Payments Board do not fall within any Department, and amendment No 1 helps to re-emphasise that the requirement here goes beyond Departments and the Northern Ireland Civil Service. The question that is almost posed by that amendment is whether it needs to go further with reference to records and documents that are held by what would now be called voluntary adoption agencies and perhaps even by the third sector more generally.”
“Thank you for giving way. Maybe I was not following every word you said, but, from what I picked up, are you suggesting that, going forward, one Minister could function and take forward regulations unilaterally? If that is what you are suggesting, you were not listening to what other people contributed before you started to speak.”
“Without an Executive and with no emergency law in place, if something were to happen with the virus, there would be no practical means of introducing Executive legislation or managing a swift, cross-departmental response. Even if the chances of our needing to do that are low — who knows what they are in practice — we simply cannot leave ourselves entirely undefended with no future means of defence while there is still a deadly virus out there and so much political uncertainty about it. Therefore, on balance, and with respect to those raising valid views against the extension, we will not be raising an objection to it. Naturally, we sincerely hope and believe that it is the last one.”
“It is worth noting at this point that the only thing that is evident about those territories experiencing a further wave of hospitalisations is that they are territories where vaccination levels, particularly among the older population, are low. It is reinforcing the point that vaccines work and that, in fact, vaccines are perhaps the best argument against the extension. <BR /> <BR />All of that would still probably not be enough for us, as a liberal party, to justify maintaining emergency laws at this stage but for one further vital consideration: we are about to enter the election period, and there is considerable uncertainty about the formation of a functioning Executive, which may eat into some, if not all, of the coming six months. One particular party has caused the uncertainty in that regard and seems intent on continuing to do so.”
“When the departmental official came to the Health Committee last week, I asked for an assurance that there would be no further such waves here, and, of course, he could not give such an assurance.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, I have to say that there is difficulty with the key argument against maintaining the law, namely that it is about freedom. We could have argued that — indeed, some did — when cases fell close to zero in the summer of 2020, yet the virus rebounded. We could have argued that at this time a year ago, when the first dose of the vaccine seemed to be reducing not just illness but the spread of the virus, yet the delta variant emerged, and the virus rebounded. We could argue that now, yet the truth is that we do not know what lies ahead. <BR /> <BR />Death rates connected to the virus in some territories in the Far East are spiralling to record levels, and there is some uncertainty over why that is the case.”
“I support the motion. It enables the maintenance of the emergency law around coronavirus for six months so that, in practice, in the event of a public health emergency arising from a new wave based on a new variant of the virus, we can reintroduce public health measures to reduce its onward infection. <BR /> <BR />It is worth emphasising that, in the absence of a functioning Executive, the law can be used only on the same basis as that on which all restrictions were removed last month, which is with the written consent of Ministers representing all parties in the Executive. That renders the law less draconian than some like to claim ahead of an election. It also demonstrates, however, how the uncertainty around the future of a functioning Executive is a relevant consideration.”
“Minister, you will be aware that the new cancer strategy will, hopefully, be published this week. In your response to Mr Stewart, you talked about the Departments coming forward and presenting their pressures. There will be new costs in that strategy, and, obviously, we will need to get it implemented in a timely manner. What is the prospect of funding being forthcoming for the new cancer strategy without an Executive?”
“Minister, my question is not about the A5. I have written to your private office twice about traffic-calming measures, and I am conscious that it is nearly the end of the mandate. My question is about Orpen Park. I know that your officials were consulting residents about traffic-calming measures. Do you have an update?”
“Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I am absolutely delighted to see Hunterhouse College, Malone Integrated College and St Joseph's College on the list. I pay tribute not just to your departmental officials but to the leadership in those three schools. I know that they have been lobbying for many years. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will be aware that there is huge pressure on post-primary places in South Belfast. Your statement referred to area planning. Given that many of these projects will take many years to reach completion, how will the Department cope with increased demand, year-on-year, for places in those schools and others around them?”
“Which recommendations are you suggesting are being ignored?”
“The two Members who tabled the motion need to reconsider their priorities and to ask themselves what they are trying to achieve in a society in which we are all now minorities. <BR /> <BR />I cherish the diversity of Northern Ireland. We should all cherish it. I am here to help that diverse society to grow stronger. We have serious work to be getting on with. In that context, the motion is nothing but an utter embarrassment.”
“The Member for Lagan Valley addressed fairly what the money was spent on. It was broader than what today's motion would imply.”
“<BR /> <BR />I say this of the Members who tabled the motion: of all the motions that they could have tabled in the face of a huge cost-of-living crisis and an ongoing pandemic and with a health service in desperate need of reform, they chose this one. They need to reconsider their priorities and to ask themselves —”
“At that event, I said that I do not speak a word of Irish but cherish the language. The Member for North Antrim knows full well why we would prioritise Irish over the likes of Polish and Lithuanian: the Irish language is indigenous to this island. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted with any step that enables people to see and sense that their culture, heritage and language are reflected in the options that are available to them, especially in public services. Far from threatening anyone, that is a perfectly normal means of managing and respecting a diverse society. I like living in such a diverse society. It is for others to explain what they are trying to achieve by intentionally stepping into other people's business. Members should remember that that is what they are doing, for the sole purpose of promoting bitterness and rancour.”
“I do not intend to give this ludicrous attempt to overturn perfectly sensible regulations more time than it is due, and that is very little. To those who somehow feel threatened by other people simply placing the headings of their marriage or civil registration in the Irish language, or in Irish and English, I simply have to say that you are embarrassing yourselves. <BR /> <BR />Last week, I spoke at a Queen's University event on the Irish language, along with Pat Sheehan.”
“I was shocked but not necessarily surprised when I saw the news this morning about that form of accommodation. Minister, you will recall that I wrote to you not that long ago about a constituent of mine whose discharge from the Iveagh Centre has been delayed for several years. That cuts across into the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People (NICCY) report, 'Still Waiting', on the lack of appropriate care packages in the community for young people. An enduring concern that we on the Health Committee have is that a lot of those children will end up in adult services and then become institutionalised. What is the Department of Health doing about providing proper care for children in community settings?”
“Minister, I recently attended an online meeting with some long COVID patients. The lack of support for children who are living with long COVID was raised, and I saw some harrowing footage of that. I appreciate what you have said today, and I hope that there is progress in engaging with young people and providing them with a service. How is your Department reaching out to other parts of these islands and further afield to engage in clinical trials, given that some very sick children would benefit from some advancement in the medical treatment for long COVID?”
“<BR /> <BR />A very human penalty is being paid for such outdated provisions on adoption and support for children still being in place. We now have an improved Bill, and it is time to get on with delivering it and making life better for countless children and their families across Northern Ireland.”
“As I told members of Birth Mothers and their Children for Justice in a meeting not long ago, they played a role in shaping what we have before us today, because none of us wants to see anything even close to what they experienced in those mother-and-children's homes repeated, so I warmly welcome the private Member's Bill. <BR /> <BR />I was also disappointed that the amendment about removing the defence of reasonable chastisement was ruled outside of scope. Again, we will be able to make progress on that issue in the Assembly. My colleague Naomi Long, in her capacity as Justice Minister, is working with her officials on potentially including it in a miscellaneous provisions Bill at the start of the next mandate. The children's sector, in particular, will get behind and warmly support that.”
“As the Chair has noted, Committee members, with support from the Clerk and Committee staff, worked well together. We worked extremely hard on the Bill. We wanted an outcome that would result in a much more efficient system that will change lives for ever. <BR /> <BR />From the outset, I have been concerned that the Bill was incomplete, given the lack of certainty around records, and the Minister spoke about that today. Again, I commend the member of the Health Committee Alan Chambers for introducing a private Member's Bill on the preservation of the documents of historical institutions. We are working through that in the Chamber, and it would have been great had we been able to get those provisions through the Adoption and Children Bill.”
“I sincerely thank them all for their endeavours and their support to us on the Health Committee. I also thank the individuals who came to us privately to recount their experiences, some of which were painful and quite distressing to hear. They did so with the purpose of ensuring that others coming after them will see a different process and different regulations in place to support them in their journey. <BR /> <BR />The Minister and his officials in the Department of Health also need much praise for producing such a comprehensive Bill. As others have noted, it made its passage with very few amendments, such was its comprehensive nature and the thorough work that went into introducing it at First Stage.”
“I am sure that other Members in the Chamber, people in the Public Gallery and people watching felt the same. <BR /> <BR />In addition to Adoption UK, many other organisations have been so instrumental in shaping the Bill, notably but not exclusively Barnardo’s, the NSPCC, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People (NICCY), Family Routes, Family Care Adoption Services, the Fostering Network, the British Association of Social Workers, Action for Children, Home for Good and, of course, VOYPIC. The young people from VOYPIC engaged with us so eloquently and powerfully. They had such an impact on us in our endeavour to ensure that the legislation will be fit for purpose and meet the needs of young people.”
“The very first meeting that I had in my constituency office upon being appointed to the Health Committee here at Stormont was with Adoption UK. That organisation wanted to impress upon me the need for urgent reform and for the updating of the existing provisions relating to adoption law here in Northern Ireland. It was then already two years since the Children and Families Act, and nearly another six years have passed since. However, today, let us look at this in a positive light. We will now have legislation that, perhaps, advances us even beyond neighbouring jurisdictions. It is an exciting day. Listening to the Health Minister and the Chair of the Health Committee read out some of the benefits of the provisions in the Adoption and Children Bill filled my heart with joy.”
“Again, I appreciate the clarification, Minister. You will appreciate that we have just got these documents. I want to make sure that the clauses are as broad as possible. <BR /> <BR />I was talking about the "resident's parents or relatives". Again, some of the contributors mentioned that their brother or sister was already deceased, so it is about how they would access information about loved ones who are no longer with us. <BR /> <BR />On that note, I will look at potential amendments as we go forward to the next stage of the Bill, but I certainly do not want to hold the Bill up in this mandate.”
“Clause 3(3)(i) mentions "the resident's parents or relatives". The panel report talks about people wanting access to information about their late brother or sister's adoption file. I wonder whether clause 3(3)(i) covers that, because, for some people, that is just as important as finding out information about their mother. <BR /> <BR />I do not mean to sound negative; I just think that there may be an opportunity to bolster the Bill so that —”
“Thank you for that clarification. I just wanted to make sure that the institutions and individuals who have that information at present are almost forced to bring it forward at this stage. I appreciate that clarification. <BR /> <BR />The other aspect of the Bill relates to "relevant information". The truth recovery design panel's report talks about something that is in clause 3(3)(i) of the Bill. Clause 3(3)(g)refers to:”
“The other aspect of the Bill that I wonder about is why there is no clause on the establishment of the repository. Maybe that could be introduced at Further Consideration Stage.”
“It is our role in the Assembly, and notably in the Executive, to ensure that, when it comes to the inquiry and on into the future, there is funding to provide wrap-around emotional support and therapy to people who access their records. We know that some people have been putting off doing that until an elderly loved one passes away, out of respect for their wishes.”
“The birth mothers and adoptee children need to be presented with the information in its entirety, even if some of it is painful, distressing and shocking.”
“Should we have to wait for a public inquiry? We talk about information in the public domain that is not included in the Bill, but political representatives know what information there is and how to access it. In some ways, we are making judgements or assuming that everybody has the same access to information that we do. <BR /> <BR />There are questions about how those policies impacted on birth mothers and adoptee children. Why were they adopted by one family and not another? Why did they spend some time in a children's home away from their mothers before adoption? What considerations were taken into account, and, even more crucially for some, was a payment or donation made to the adoption agency? That is why the records must be provided without redaction. I welcome the fact that that is clearly laid out in the Bill.”
“Of course I support a full public inquiry at the earliest opportunity, but does that mean that there is nothing in the Bill that helps those people who desperately want to access the documents now in advance of the inquiry? Does it prevent them from accessing the documents? We know how deeply frustrating it has been over the years, if not decades, in trying to access the documents to date. <BR /> <BR />It is unfathomable for those of us sitting in the Chamber to know what it must have been like to give birth to a child, only for him or her to be cruelly taken away without explanation, information or comfort. There are some who try to soften that by pointing to societal, religious or cultural norms at the time. <BR /> <BR />What the birth mothers and adoptee children want is information about the extant policies and procedures at the time.”
“<BR /> <BR />In preparation for today's debate, I reread the section of the truth recovery design panel's report on access to records, the presentation of which focused heavily — rightly so — on providing direct quotations from people who engaged with the panel. Those quotations provide the reader with complete clarity and rationale as to why the Bill is necessary. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned about the full intent of the Bill, however. I may be wrong, but the inclusion of conditions in clause 2 indicates that the relevant documents are to be preserved for:”
“I thank the Bill sponsor for bringing forward this private Member's Bill. <BR /> <BR />Today is another milestone for birth mothers and adoptee children on their journey towards openness, accountability and redress. I am pleased that all the political parties fully support the presentation of the private Member's Bill at this stage in the Assembly's mandate. All in the Chamber and across the Province recognise the magnitude of what the Bill represents. <BR /> <BR />I first met Birth Mothers and their Children for Justice in late 2016. We had a lengthy and, at times, heartbreaking meeting when its representatives kindly shared with me their personal circumstances, including their deeply frustrating and painful experiences in trying to find out about their pasts.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. My comments are similar to those of the SDLP representative.”
“Initially, my view was that signage may be necessary to accomplish that, but I am happy with proposed new paragraph (c) to be inserted in clause 7. It would allow the operators and, ultimately, the Department to bring the public's attention, as appropriate, to the existence of the safe access zone. That may or may not involve signage. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I hope that the Bill can be strengthened, particularly by amendment No 5, and proceed swiftly to Final Stage. I congratulate all those involved in getting it this far. As an Assembly, we are now making positive steps forward.”
“It bears re-emphasising that one successful prosecution for harassment outside a clinic was overturned precisely because the judge could not be clear that the unpleasant behaviour constituted criminal harassment. That is exactly why this legislation is necessary and also why it is essential to be as clear as possible about precisely what it entails. That is why I was pushing for an amendment much like amendment No 5. That is not just to do with having a legal defence in the event that an offence has been committed, although we can see from experience that that is an issue, but to do with prevention and knowing when the police should be called. Indeed, it is about providing clarity to prevent offences from occurring in the first place.”
“Additionally, the Bill sponsor brought evidence to the Committee emphasising that there would be a potential defence under the legislation as it stands that those engaging in abuse did not know that the person whom they were approaching was a protected person. For me, that included that they did not know that they were in a zone. I appreciated the clarity given in the Minister's letter and in the Bill sponsor's evidence to the Committee on that.”
“This is not about censoring public protest, as some misleadingly claim; it is about stopping the specific and targeted harassment of people accessing services to which they are entitled. <BR /> <BR />In supporting amendment No 5, I have mentioned in plenary debates thus far my concern around the clarity of what constitutes a safe access zone. I have raised that several times in Committee.”
“I support amendment Nos 1 to 3 and amendment No 5 and oppose amendment No 4. I will focus my remarks mainly on the most detailed amendment, which is amendment No 5. Amendment Nos 1 and 2 are sensible technical additions for clarification, and amendment No 3 is a minor change that will provide more thorough linkage in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 is too wide in scope. It leaves far too much to be determined by the word "reasonable". This is the third time that I have stated that safe access zones exist elsewhere. The Queensland Law Commission states that they are:”
“I have stood in the Chamber many times and criticised the Minister or challenged him to reveal evidence. On every occasion, he has come back to tell me where that evidence could be found. You have used the word "transparency": that was wrong, in this context. If you had wanted the information, you probably could have found it.”