Paula Bradshaw
South Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“They were places where those who were vulnerable were concealed, young mothers were stripped of their babies and children were stripped of their identities. Let us be resolute in our remembrance of what happened behind the doors of those institutions.”
“At all stages, the Committee has set out its clear support for the legislation's overarching aims and principles, which are to establish a statutory public inquiry into the systemic failings associated with mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and workhouses between 1922 and 1995 and to create a statutory redress scheme for t…”
“Again, I refuse to call them "mother-and-baby homes", for we now know that there was nothing homely about them. What the Bill can and must do is offer a tangible declaration that the state accepts its responsibility.”
“As Chairperson of the Committee for the Executive Office, I welcome the opportunity to speak at the Final Stage of the Inquiry (Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene Laundries and Workhouses) and Redress Scheme Bill.”
“Key points were also made in relation to redress: the need to ensure that the Executive Office introduces clear guidelines for the scheme as soon as practicable; the need for the Executive Office to widely communicate and promote the scheme to all victims and survivors, including those who live overseas; and the need for the Executive Off…”
“The First Minister and deputy First Minister tabled a number of amendments that gave effect to the Committee's intent across a number of clauses. In several instances, the Committee chose to withdraw its amendments in favour of the Ministers' wording, where that better reflected the broader book of the law.”
The complete record
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“Thank you, Minister, for your statement. There appear to be four vacant positions on the board of the Ulster-Scots Agency. I think that you touched on it previously, but could you give us some details and timescales for the appointment process to fill those vacancies?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He will know that some of us have been campaigning for a long time for this neurology inquiry. Those of us who received private political briefings from Hugo Mascie-Taylor and Brett Lockhart know that they wanted this, so I appreciate that we have got to this stage today. <BR /> <BR />The common factor in Muckamore, neurology, hyponatraemia, this and others is clinical governance. How many times will MLAs be brought to the Chamber to discuss breakdowns in clinical governance? Will the Minister look at a more Health and Social Care-wide process to improve that?”
“We have, in effect, just bought ourselves another two or three weeks in which to do that. I look forward to hearing some clear details on what reforms have been implemented and what reforms will now be implemented to ensure, as best we can, that the circuit remains broken from mid-December.”
“Those are, of course, important, but money is not the only reason for someone not to self-isolate when they are asked to. Lack of social contact, fear of falling behind at work, lack of leisure activities or simply lack of clarity about why and how to self-isolate all play a role. Support has to go beyond finance, therefore. This is an area in which I am unconvinced that digital tracing, most obviously contacting people in the first instance by text rather than phone, really works. Contact tracing is about speaking to people and even building a relationship with them to ensure that they are adequately supported. That simply cannot be done on a relatively low budget with a relatively small staff team. <BR /> <BR />There is a clear need to reform all five aspects of find, test, trace, isolate and support.”
“We do not have figures in Northern Ireland for how many people actually self-isolated when they were asked to; there is no way to measure that compliance. However, the suggestion from King's College London and NHS research is that perhaps 80% of those asked to isolate after showing symptoms or having a positive test did not do so for the required time and close to 90% of contacts did not do so at all. Part of that was because the rules around how long people should isolate for and exactly what isolation means were unclear. Part of it was because of a lack of support for those who were isolating, as is mentioned in the motion. However, it has to be said that part of it was because not enough people were reached. <BR /> <BR />I wish to touch quickly on support. We often hear discussion of payments available to those who are self-isolating.”
“We must remember that most people who are infected do not affect anyone else, but a small minority of infected people infect a huge majority of those who end up infected. They are the so-called superspreaders. Contact tracing needs to be able to tell us much more about them. <BR /> <BR />Let us make one thing clear: the health service does not close down because of lockdown; it closes down because transmission levels rise far too quickly. We need to get those transmission levels down. That means avoiding crowds, limiting contact and wearing face coverings appropriately. However, another reason transmission levels grew is that the "isolate" in test, trace and isolate was clearly not happening.”
“However, we can see from the lack of information, including in response to some of my questions for written answer, that contact tracing has not told us enough about the behaviour of the virus in the context of Northern Ireland. We need to do more, particularly with regard to the latter purpose, so that we can target restrictions and drive down transmission much more efficiently, which is precisely what the motion says, and help limit the impact on health service workers and users. <BR /> <BR />Earlier today, the Health Minister provided information around the restrictions that have been imposed in relation to churches and gyms. I welcome that. Contact tracing needs to be more effective in identifying the actual source of infections and the risk associated with certain types of venue and behaviour.”
“<BR /> <BR />One purpose of contact tracing — the one that is simplest to explain clearly, perhaps — is that it traces the contacts of those who are affected and asks them to remain at home. The aim is to ensure that people who may have been infected by others restrict their movements so as to break chains of infection and, thus, slow and reduce the spread of the virus. However, it has two other purposes. One is to find people and ensure that they receive treatment early. That remains a flaw in our testing system, because it remains too heavily biased towards people with symptoms, when peak infectiousness is usually before symptoms appear. Another purpose of contact tracing, which is highly relevant, is that it is supposed to help us with epidemiology.”
“I rise to support the motion, naturally. I start by thanking those who work in the contact-tracing service and the Public Health Agency for all of their efforts to this point in the pandemic. I also place on record my sympathies to the families who have been bereaved by this horrendous virus. <BR /> <BR />While the motion rightly refers to some advances that have been made in the contact-tracing services over the current close-down period, I remain concerned that they are still not sufficiently resourcing the system to do all that it promises to do. There are significant gaps in what we are doing in each of the find, test, trace, isolate and support elements, and they need to be filled urgently.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Given that we know more about the transmission of the virus in enclosed spaces, are you minded to bring forward a financial support scheme for businesses with a large number of employees who are quite sedentary during the day, so that they can improve the ventilation systems in their premises?”
“From today, weekly testing of domiciliary care workers will begin in England. Is the Minister minded to replicate that in Northern Ireland?”
“Will you acknowledge that women are also victims of that?”
“I am not going to read my speech out. I just want to say that we will support the amendments. I acknowledge the work of Justice Gillen on his two reviews, the impact of which is very much felt in the Bill, and the wider body of work that has been undertaken by the Justice and Health Departments. Mr Speaker, thank you very much to you and the staff for your help tonight.”
“It should be emphasised that legal aid is already available to anyone who needs it to secure a non-molestation order. People with high incomes make a small contribution towards their representation, but no one is paying thousands or even hundreds of pounds for that. Nevertheless, we will continue to look at this, particularly because one common means of control is to remove access to funds. If the intent is to ensure that no one is unable to bring a case of domestic abuse due to a lack of funds, we would like to achieve that in the Bill, via an appropriate amendment, if necessary. <BR /> <BR />Finally, it is worth emphasising that no one is removing parental responsibility. There is a reasonable behaviour defence, and standard penalties such as grounding or removing access to social media, do not fall within the scope of the Bill.”
“I do not believe, however, that such an important process — a significant element, amounting to 35 clauses of the equivalent Bill for England and Wales — should be taken forward through regulations; instead, it should be properly consulted on with the public and scrutinised by the Assembly, not least the Justice Committee, as part of forthcoming primary legislation in this Assembly term. In my and my party's view, the interests of victims are best served by a thorough process, making sure that we get it right. <BR /> <BR />While I suspect that I have sympathy with the intent of amendment No 14, I am unclear about the wording. I simply do not believe that it would be workable as it stands.”
“I support amendment Nos 9, 11 and 12 and oppose amendment Nos 13 and 14. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 9 is an important clarification that non-physical ill treatment of someone aged 16 or 17 will be captured by the offence. It has been placed in the group alongside amendment No 11 to clause 17 because it does the same thing: it clarifies that the domestic abuse aggravator also applies if the victim is aged 16 or 17. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 12 is an additional clause that enhances that, based on evidence received by the Committee, making non-physical ill treatment of a child by someone with parental responsibility for them an offence and clarifying that any suffering or injury need not necessarily be physical. <BR /> <BR />I have concerns about amendment No 13, not because I oppose its intent, but because, in fact, I support it.”
“We must also remember, as some have chosen to forget, that the draft legislation also contains a provision for defence on the grounds of reasonableness if the behaviour is reasonable in certain circumstances; for example, somebody's safety. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, amendment Nos 16 and 17 are useful to add clarity; the former as requested by the Committee. I am content that they add to the Department's ability to ensure that the legislation is used to the fairest and best effect.”
“Also to be clear: where a court is presented with a case where there is no intent, no harm and none of the effects of abusive behaviour, it is simply not going to arrive at the position where someone could be prosecuted and jailed for 14 years, as Mr Allister mentioned. Those who suggest that are trying to remove the idea that controlling and coercive behaviour should be a crime. They are also trying to remove the idea that a child can be harmed without being immediately aware of the harmful impact. Sadly, again, it is a basic principle of child protection, for example, that the impact may come and be acutely felt years later in life. <BR /> <BR />The requirement in the legislation is that a reasonable person would consider harm to have been caused, and that it has been carried out intentionally or recklessly.”
“I think that we can all agree that it needs to be explicit in the legislation. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 1 and the notice of opposition to clause 3 would fundamentally alter the offence and, therefore, the point of the Bill. The judgement, as in Scotland and elsewhere, must be that a reasonable person would consider harm to have been caused. That is the whole point of the legislation, as it refers not just to physical but, vitally, to psychological harm. Not to grasp that is not to grasp the fundamental point of domestic abuse and, importantly, coercive control. <BR /> <BR />Let the House be clear: when people normalise controlling behaviour just because it is ongoing does not mean that no controlling behaviour has taken or is taking place.”
“Therefore, even from a public health prism, we must ensure that the legislation provides safeguards, as much as possible, to stop children's experiences of parents' abusive behaviour, no matter to whom it is directed, having a lifelong impact on them. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 3 to clause 9, on aggravation where a relevant child is present, is a minor but significant change, as it will ensure that aggravation can be applied if any or all aspects of the subsections of the clause are present. For similar reasons, my party is also happy, at this stage, to accept the enhancements to clause 9 and amendment Nos 4 and 7. In some ways, the Bill is substantially different from the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act. However, the basis for determining how a reasonable person might consider the behaviour is fundamental and important to both.”
“Furthermore, by weaponising the child or children and using them to punish the victim for leaving, they are also abusing them. The innocent child or children are caught in the middle and left confused and conflicted. That is why they must be factored into the Bill. Indeed, it is why some of the amendments strengthen that aspect of the Bill. We are all aware of adverse childhood experiences (ACE), and the impact that childhood trauma can have. It can lead to negative lifelong emotional and poor physical outcomes. I think that Linda Dillon touched on that as well; that it is not just about Justice, but is a cross-departmental issue. ACE include domestic violence or being the victim of physical or mental abuse.”
“I am stating my personal opinion of that misunderstood term. <BR /> <BR />It is about when a man or woman has the strength or opportunity — it is not always about strength — to leave an abusive relationship. They leave behind the coercive control, they regain financial autonomy, they are able to reconnect with family and friends, maybe they can get back to work, and they are able to build their life away from the perpetrator. In many instances, the only link that they retain with their ex-partner is their child or children. Their abuser can no longer control them, and their abusive behaviour is no longer a factor in their life. However, when there is still contact between both parents, the abuser has the ability to perpetrate the abuse through the one thing that, they know, will have most emotional impact: their child.”
“The campaign by organisations such as Women's Aid, the Men's Advisory Project and Nexus, to name but a few, for a robust legislative framework through which the courts, the PSNI, the Public Prosecution Service and social workers can operate has been long, and I hope that the Assembly will deliver a law that addresses gaps in provision and, ultimately, provides appropriate protections and remedies for victims of domestic abuse. <BR /> <BR />Before I address the amendments — this is the first time that I have spoken about the Bill during its passage — I will place on record my thoughts about parental alienation and address some of the concerns that some people have about aspects of the Bill that, they think, could be used to further abuse victims. Others feel that the provisions do not go far enough in stipulating an offence.”
“I oppose amendment No 1 and the opposition to clause 3 and support all other amendments in the group. I very much appreciate the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Alliance Party to the Consideration Stage of such a much-needed and long-awaited Bill. <BR /> <BR />Before I comment on the amendments, I place on record my thanks to the Justice Minister, her department officials, members of the Justice Committee and the many stakeholder groups, charities and individuals for the tremendous amount of work that has gone in to getting the Bill to this point.”
“Thank you, Mr Allister, for giving way. At lunchtime today, I took a phone call from a lady who was in a mother-and-baby home years ago. She has hit 60 now. When she escaped from the mother-and-baby home, she was just delighted to get out of the place, and it was not until years later that she recognised the emotional abuse that she had suffered. She did not feel the harm at that point, but now that she is 60, she is in a dreadful state. Now, it is a slightly different context, but are you saying that the harm, because she did not recognise it at that point but did so years later, did not take place?”
“Minister, given that Northern Ireland will be the only jurisdiction in the UK with its own stand-alone stalking Bill, how will our offence compare with those in the other parts of the UK?”
“Thank you for your statement, Minister. Can you please outline how the environmental plans contained in it integrate with payment plans and if any transition is required? Further to that, what conversations will you have with the Department of Finance? Obviously, there is a lot of learning from efforts to get the COVID payments and business support grants out.”
“This will help to enable the ultimate goal, which is the eventual abolition of committal hearings altogether. I look forward to this Bill now proceeding swiftly to speed up our justice system and improve the quality of evidence presented in it.”
“The cases added for direct committal extend well beyond rape and sexual assault, so the principle that victims should not be further victimised by the length or nature of evidence that they have to provide surely extends beyond them, too. Clause 4(8) is notable in that regard. <BR /> <BR />I also draw attention to clause 4(4), which enables the direct committal of a case to trial by an order of the court or through regulations of the Department that define which cases must be so committed.”
“It is more essential than ever to get on with the Bill because it complements other legislation that is currently proceeding through the House or is currently proposed. That is because the Bill is about not just speed, as important as that is, but reducing stress on victims and potential victims. The Bill will improve the quality of evidence and will relieve stress by ensuring that evidence is given only once. Indeed, it is the abolition of oral evidence at the committal hearing, which is, primarily, dealt with in clauses 1 to 3, that will follow most swiftly after the passage of the Bill. That is also important following the Gillen review into serious sexual offences. Although that review was specifically about sexual offences, it called for a holistic approach.”
“We already have the Justice Act, but its directly relevant provisions have not commenced. What we are doing here was done, for the most part, in England and Wales as long ago as 2001 and was agreed in the Fresh Start Agreement action plan. My colleague Stewart Dickson outlined some of the background of why we have fallen so far behind, so I will not repeat it. We are now following on from what Criminal Justice Inspection, the Northern Ireland Audit Office and 'New Decade, New Approach' all advocated. <BR /> <BR />One advantage of the delay is that more offences are now included for direct committal. Those include serious assault, serious driving offences, sexual assault, aggravated burglary, human trafficking and firearms possession with intent.”
“I agree with Mr Frew: it is great to see this Bill proceeding through the Assembly. We were all elected as legislators to bring in policy changes and new laws to make our constituents' lives better. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister mentioned, the principles of the Bill are not new. It is, of course, as she explained, designed to speed up the justice system, which, in many cases, is operating at only half the speed of those in the rest of the UK, and, ultimately, to improve the operation of the criminal justice system. We could probably do with a bit of speed being injected into the political system, too. The principles of the Bill are not new, and previous Ministers have attempted to legislate to implement them, but, as ever in this place, delays have been the outcome.”
“Does the Minister agree that the reintroduction of shielding could play a part in reducing pressure on our health service and provide an extra layer of protection for our clinically vulnerable?”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the Chamber. You talked about the exceptional uptake of the flu vaccine. What lessons are being learnt for the forthcoming roll-out of the coronavirus vaccine programme in both operational issues and communication?”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, First Minister, for your answer. Are you confident that the associated legislation will be on the statute book by the end of the Assembly term?”
“Minister, the DHSC in England is issuing new guidance for clinically extremely vulnerable people to patients, who are provided with a formal shielding notification that can act as guidance for employers. Will you reintroduce shielding letters here?”
“Are we going to trace more quickly? Are we going to do more to encourage people to self-isolate? That matters, because without that knowledge, there is no way to see whether the route is clear to reopen at least some aspects of hospitality. I know that the inevitable consequence of a rising transmission rate will once again mean closing down vital health services. <BR /> <BR />My challenge for the junior Minister is this: what changes are being made to the test, trace and isolate system? Can he update us on the face covering regulations that will enable us to make significant amendments to the restrictions as they have applied to Derry and Strabane since 6 October, and to the whole of Northern Ireland since 16 October? I hope that the junior Minister will address those issues in his response.”
“We cannot pull out of a side street unless we have a clear view of the traffic on the road ahead. The test, trace and isolate system has not given us that clear view. The last time that the Assembly discussed the amendment regulations, I warned that we should not waste these four weeks. By mid-November, contact tracing needed to be reformed and resourced to provide us with clearer and more specific information about the origins of the infection, and that is how we can best intervene without closing down entire sectors to break the chains of infection. <BR /> <BR />The question now arises: what steps have been taken to reform and fix the test, trace and isolate service? Are we going to test, as is happening in the Republic, anyone who has been in contact with a person who has tested positive to identify who must be isolated?”
“On the wearing of face coverings on school transport, I have continued to enquire as to why some locations are included and others are not, and why some ages are applicable in some places but not in others. It is confusing and ultimately suggests that the Executive are not entirely serious about the need for face coverings at all. The simple fact is that face coverings should be worn by everyone of post-primary age in all indoor public spaces. There is no doubt that a simple law to that effect will achieve much higher compliance and acceptance. <BR /> <BR />I will now comment on the test, trace and isolate system. Before we consider taking significant steps out of the current restrictions, we need at least some of the evidence to be presented.”
“The challenge was demonstrated at the Committee last week when we found that insignificant consideration of the latest evidence had gone into the development of the regulations on face coverings. If these are to be enforced, there needs to be more straightforward application of the regulations. The evidence is clear that face coverings dramatically reduce transmission in all indoor public spaces. That is the starting point for living with the virus, and that is a phrase that the First Minister and deputy First Minister have used in recent days. There seems to be a profound misunderstanding about what we are trying to do when we introduce such regulations. <BR /> <BR />At issue is not just the epidemiological evidence but the presentation of the regulations, which must be clear to the public and easily enforced.”
“The bad news is that, well, we also know what works in the sense that we absolutely do not want to close down an entire economic sector, potentially for a year or more. We should be concerned about that close-down, and we should not be afraid to challenge it. For example, when it came to closing close-contact services, there was genuine confusion. It was only much later, for example, that clarification came that holistic therapies could be offered only upon a referral from the health and social care sector. Why was that not clarified at the outset? It was only after the Health Committee requested that information last week that we received it today, and I know that there are many small, private enterprises that would have appreciated that information a long time ago. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to face coverings.”
“To be clear, there was good evidence for the restrictions on household gatherings, although they appear to have made limited, if any, difference to transmission levels in the postcode areas in which they were initially introduced. What have clearly made a difference are the restrictions that were introduced in Derry and Strabane on 6 October and elsewhere 10 days later. We can see that, even in the Castlederg area, where transmission rates were not as high as elsewhere in the council area, those rates dropped notably to among the lowest levels in Northern Ireland by the beginning of last week. <BR /> <BR />This presents us with some useful information and knowledge and also with a conundrum. The good news is that, to some extent, we now know what works.”
“For example, in August, there were far more applications per head of population for the Eat Out to Help Out campaign in Northern Ireland than any other region of the UK, and it was exactly at that time that transmission levels rose to the highest in the UK. That may be a false correlation, of course, but, unfortunately, the subsequent evidence such as that from the University of Colorado and the University of Warwick, especially around aerosol transmission, backs up the fact that hospitality was a clear risk area. <BR /> <BR />One consequence of the test, trace and isolate system not working to maximum efficiency is that we did not have and do not have at present clear evidence about the sources and chains of infection here.”
“Thank you, junior Minister, for being here today. Yet again, we face the oddity of debating regulations that are, in effect, well out of date. I welcome at least that we are covering a range of amendments today. <BR /> <BR />The evidence presented by the First Minister and deputy First Minister in mid-September was that transmission was largely in households. It appears, not least from the evidence bank now published by the Department, that that evidence was already outdated. The SAGE evidence of 21 September already clearly stated that hospitality and universities were significant drivers. Last week, the Chief Medical Officer confirmed that you cannot have schools and hospitality open and keep transmission declining.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Minister for her impressive statement. I thank my colleague Christopher Stalford, who stole my question. However, I have another one. The Minister mentioned human rights and the right to family life. I work with constituents, and with one in particular whose child is on delayed discharge in the Iveagh Centre in west Belfast because there is no suitable accommodation to which to bring that child home. We have seen what has happened at Muckamore and other places, where beloved family members with complex needs have languished. Can the Minister tell me where she is collaborating with the Department of Health to start to introduce housing that would fit the needs of people who require a live-in carer or live-in nurse? Where is that mentioned in the statement?”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we must grab this opportunity to do away with an outdated selection system that is barely fit for the second half of the 20th century and develop an education system that meets the demands of the second half of the 21st century, focused on exporting products and services rather than people.”
“I think that my colleague Chris Lyttle touched on some of those issues at the start, and I certainly agree with that. <BR /> <BR />We have the reports about the confusing entry requirements and the bottlenecks, but this is not exclusively about potential educational achievement. Issues such as proximity, which you have just mentioned, after-school capacity and needed ethos play into such decisions. Needless to say, we find the integrated sector oversubscribed, and, in fact, there is evidence that it would be even more oversubscribed were it not still on what is now a rather old-fashioned requirement to carry out a headcount.”
“In fact, six primary schools serving just one DEA in my constituency are at or over capacity, with demand continuing to exceed approved enrolments. One reason for this is that it is perceived to be the best route to the post-primary schools that parents want to send their children to. Therefore, we already have reports of parents finding entry criteria confusing and of bottlenecks even at pre-primary level as parents seek the most appropriate pathway.”
“That is all entirely predictable, so we need to know now what the response from the Minister will be to that predictable situation. <BR /> <BR />Thirdly, it is already the case that some schools are affected worse than others. Some have had to isolate for long periods; others not at all. There is absolutely no way that a crude test taken with many pupils inevitably absent, giving a clear advantage to those who have been least affected by the need to isolate, is in any way a sensible means of deciding which schools pupils go to. <BR /> <BR />We have buried our head in the sand for too long. The fact is that it is already the case that parents try to make decisions on educational routes right from nursery age. In parts of South Belfast, primary schools are well oversubscribed, particularly the maintained and integrated ones.”
“It is unacceptable for that simply to be ignored and handed over solely to schools to make the best that they can of the situation. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, let us be clear about the situation. We already have clear warnings, notably from Wales, but, implicitly, from our own health advisers, that January will likely see coronavirus cases rise again. It is inconceivable that any sort of sensible testing could take place in such an environment. Just to pick up on a point that was made by the Member who spoke previously, parents are extremely concerned that, if the tests are carried out in secondary schools rather than in their children's primary school, their children will come in contact with other children and adults, meaning that community transmission could be huge.”