Steve Aiken
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, as well as the move to reduce the cost to the Assembly of vacant non-domestic properties and to increase liability so that we will not have so many vacant properties, you will be aware of the Dilapidation Bill and of the conversations that have been taking place in Wales and Scotland about…”
“Instead, that most dysfunctional Department, under the most inept Sinn Féin Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly and a series of grossly over-superannuated permanent secretaries, gave the money back.”
“We know that her Department spends more on legal cases, fighting judicial reviews and being chastised by judges for legal ineptitude and on vesting land and ripping out hedges and fencing and then trying to unvest it and paying even more money to put back the fences and hedges that it took out.”
“We can hardly blame the current permanent secretary, as she has just taken up her post, but, surely, her predecessors must bear some accountability or responsibility, especially considering the senior civil servants' salary scale of between £146,000 and £163,000, with, of course, their taxpayer-funded pension contribution of 34·2% — £218,…”
“It must be said that £181·3 million is a lot of taxpayers' hard-earned money. It is money that is raised from local commuters, vehicle owners, farmers, local businesses, logistics companies and, above all, our constituents — those vital people whom we are elected to represent.”
“The Minister will be aware that, under the public appointments guide published by the Executive Office, it is clear that she is supposed to take independent advice before appointing board members. What independent advice did she receive, particularly about the board members selected?”
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“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I record my apologies for my mobile phone going off during the debate? I meant no disrespect to the people in the Public Gallery or, indeed, to Mr Brett. I apologise for that.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way and for coming back to that matter so swiftly. The concern is that there is a quantum of £650 million. The black box provisions came down from £1 billion to £24 million through the sole authority of the Budget Act, and we are now saying that we are not quite accurate on the Vote on Account of 45%. I do not want to take the debate much further, Minister, but if we could get those figures in front of the Finance Committee, we could get stuck into them. That situation raises more than a few concerns.”
“I thank the Minister for his response, which nails the myth promoted by some that a vague reference in the Programme for Government is somehow an illustration of prioritisation. Does the Minister agree that it is the height of hypocrisy for some MLAs in the Chamber to demand additional investment in existing services while actively supporting a Budget that does not give him the resources that he needs?”
“<BR /> <BR />Minister, we appreciate the fact that you will get back to us on the issue of National Insurance contributions fairly quickly. Also, can we resolve the issue of what the Vote on Account amount actually is and whether the £650 million discrepancy is a result of my not being able to do maths correctly or whether it is not written down correctly? I suspect that it be somewhere in between and that it needs to be looked at.”
“Not now, Minister, because I would not want to put you on the spot, but maybe you could task your officials to come back to the Finance Committee and explain that discrepancy. Either the Vote on Account is wrong, the figure that was used initially is wrong or we are £650 million out, which is not a position that we should be in. <BR /> <BR />There is a lot more detail in this, and it is up to the Committees to go through the figures. In fact, I encourage every Member to properly scrutinise the documentation that is before them. It is our duty to make sure that the Departments are held to account. The responsibility to ensure that the documentation is correct does not reside with just the Department of Finance. It is important that we carry out that degree of scrutiny. I will bring my remarks to a close at that point.”
“I have checked the £26·5 billion against the spring Supplementary Estimates, and, yes, that figure appears to be correct. The memorandum says that the Vote on Account amount is £12·148 billion. Minister, the Vote on Account is 45% of the Budget. Forty-five per cent of the figure of £26·536 billion does not equate to £12·148 billion; it equates to £11·941 billion. There is a difference there of £650 million. I might be reading this wrongly — I probably am; this is just from an initial look — but, bearing in mind that we have already picked up some inconsistencies in the spring Supplementary Estimates, the messages that have been coming across to us and the detail that has been there, there needs to be good scrutiny of what is coming before us.”
“<BR /> <BR />The detail of a lot of the impacts still needs to be worked through. My learned friend the Chair of the Committee pointed out that many Committees need to get to the bottom of the Estimates. The commentary yesterday from my friend Mr Gaston about our billions-sized Budget that could be a trillions-sized Budget made me look quite closely at some of the figures in the Estimates memorandum and the other documentation that we have in front of us, including the Budget Bill's explanatory and financial memorandum. I notice that paragraph 10 of the explanatory and financial memorandum talks specifically about the Consolidated Fund for Northern Ireland for 2024-25 and states that the Bill will authorise a revised total amount of £26·5 billion.”
“Minister, it will come as no surprise after yesterday's debate that we will support the Budget Bill's passing Second Stage. The 15 clauses and three schedules cover the £31 billion as laid down in the schedule and the Estimates, including the revised total amount of £26·536 billion. The Chair of the Finance Committee raised the issue of the increase in National Insurance contributions. We are concerned that the Department of Finance has not been able to estimate the likely costs of that. I thank the Minister for his commitment to come to the Committee as quickly as possible when those details have been worked out. However, for many of us, there has to be a concern that the Department of Finance, with its specific HR role across the Northern Ireland Civil Service, has not identified those figures yet.”
“Minister, there was no implication that the spend was in any way underhand. It is just that if we look at the history of how the black box has been used, for me, who has been a member of the Finance Committee for a long time, it raises concern. As I said, it is good that the figure has come down from a billion pounds, but the rules state that it should be no more than a million pounds, and it is at £24 million. If it is an accounting irregularity, a very close eye needs to be kept on it.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be delighted to hold TEO to account on that issue, because it seems that TEO's share of the black box — over half of it — is disproportionate. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to eight minutes, so I will gladly sit down.”
“At one stage, it was in excess of £1 billion, when the guidance on public finances given to accounting officers — who, hopefully, have now all completed the accounting officer course — was that it should not exceed £1 million. Members will be glad to see that the total has been brought down to £24 million. While that is still 24 times the level that it should be, it is a lot better than £1 billion. Well done, Department of Finance, for that. <BR /> <BR />Some of that £24 million can be identified as dealing with welfare reform mitigation. Half a million pounds is for the Fiscal Council, and maybe the Minister can update us on the delayed legislation to put that body on a statutory footing. Could he also comment on TEO's black box amount? It seems to be out of proportion.”
“It took far too long. We should at least be thankful that the Department of Finance was able to furnish five copies to the Finance Committee last week when we met. I wonder whether the new Finance Minister will take the need for effective scrutiny by all MLAs seriously and strongly encourage his Department to sort out the printing and provision of copies of the Estimates to all elected Members. I am looking at you across there, John: I know that you are just as frustrated about that as we are; thank you for that in advance. <BR /> <BR />There are some real nuggets of information within the document. My previous learned friend from the Finance Committee, Mr Jim Allister KC, always paid particular attention to the sole authority parts of the Budget Act.”
“I will follow the guidance of the Speaker and not hold up the copy that I have, but it is good to see that some of us — the Finance Committee, at least — have received a copy at long last. It took long enough.”
“The table at page 16 lays out the revised figure of £26·536 billion, with £18 billion-plus in DEL, £12 billion-plus in AME, and the additional moneys coming from non-budgetary expenditure. That equates to around £14,000 per citizen in Northern Ireland. It reflects the increased statement of need of slightly above 1·24 that the Northern Ireland Executive have argued for successfully since Hillsborough. We, as a party, were very much a part of that. <BR /> <BR />Much of the specifics will be covered later, but I will make few high-level comments that, I hope, are worthy of note. First, it is unfortunate that all Members have not been furnished with a hard copy of the spring Supplementary Estimates.”
“Members will recall that, about this time last year, the then Finance Minister tried to state that some Departments, including Health, had received a substantial rise in funding, using a rather bizarre and, frankly, unconvincing argument in which she compared the Health budget with the opening position, rather than the closing position, in the previous year's Budget. It is good to see that the new Minister and the permanent sec have learned that lesson. It was not just the Fiscal Council that raised a quizzical eye at the DOF's reasoning. We, as a party, are glad to see that we have reverted to normal conventions. <BR /> <BR />I move to some of the detail laid out in the Minister's statements, complemented by the Northern Ireland spring Supplementary Estimates 2024-25. The Budget for Northern Ireland is significant.”
“Thank you very much indeed, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I refer my learned friend across the Assembly to what the Minister has been saying. Compare that with what other Ministers have said and with the Programme for Government, if it ever appears. <BR /> <BR />I return to my remarks. Add to that the real and growing costs of the Irish Sea border and the radical damage being done to our agribusiness sector by the discriminatory, anti-farmers inheritance tax, and you have a perfect, self-induced, Labour-inspired economic storm. There is definitely something about removing the plank from one's own eye before criticising the mote in somebody else's. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Minister and Department for reverting to the common custom and practice of budgeting.”
“Steady. <BR /> <BR />While we continue to fight over the prioritisation of our allocated finance in the Budget, it is on Westminster that we must continue to apply pressure. That is far from the sponging that the Secretary of State's remarks at Ulster University implied. His Government have managed to drain, lettuce-style, our public services while emasculating our growth prospects through the rise in employers' National Insurance contributions and the general demoralisation of our economy. That has put a large dent in our growth prospects. <BR /> <BR />Over to you, Matthew.”
“Not at the moment, but I will in a minute. I am just getting to an interesting bit. It is all interesting, of course.”
“<BR /> <BR />As we look at the closing position of the 2024-25 Budget and at the 2025-26 Vote on Account, we can say that our principled stand gained resources for the Department of Health that other parties had sought to deny the citizens of Northern Ireland. Hopefully, we can now move forward collectively as an Executive.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is perhaps fortunate that the financial settlement that the Chancellor of the Exchequer laid out in the autumn Budget statement was, in some respects, generous to us. Otherwise, our fragile health service would be in an even more perilous state, especially as we face in upcoming years the very real challenges of endeavouring to transform the Department of Health and of effecting the much-needed reform of other Departments, on which we await some detail, unlike in the Department of Health, where we have provided the details of the changes that we wish to make. We have not had any detail from the Department of Justice. We have not had any from the Department of Agriculture. Indeed, we have not had detail from any of them.”
“The commentary on what was available in the Budget before what would be on the table from the Chancellor of the Exchequer was known, coupled with that on the additional moneys that could be expected, as well as the impact of the various monitoring rounds, demonstrated why we as a party could not support the Budget that was then proposed. The discussions that I and other Members from our party had at Hillsborough Castle with all parties, including the now Opposition, resulted in agreement that the Department of Health was the priority. We all know that some political promises have limited validity, but Sinn Féin, DUP and Alliance Ministers resiled from that priority with more than undue haste. I am sorry that Mrs Dodds is not here to hear that.”
“As the UUP spokesperson on finance, I will speak about the spring Supplementary Estimates and the Vote on Account. Despite the many continuing reservations that I and other Members from our party will speak to, the Ulster Unionist Party will support the motions before us today and the Budget Bill at Second Stage. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that the 2024-25 closing position, as stipulated in the spring Supplementary Estimates, is much more favourable than the opening statements that the previous Finance Minister gave in the Assembly.”
“Our Southern neighbour, by any measure, is completely defenceless. That matters to us, because its absolute vulnerability is our vulnerability. It is well beyond time for the Irish to wake up. Rather than pontificating in Munich and Brussels, the Taoiseach needs to commit to real defence and to collective European security. Anything else is unacceptable. The time has come for Europe to step up. Much closer and integrated European military capability is needed. If one aspires to European democracy and freedom, one needs to be prepared to fight for it. Poland and the Baltic States know what the stakes are. It is time that we too woke up and paid the price and took on the burden.”
“were over. <BR /> <BR />Europe, having freeloaded in varying ways under the US security umbrella, has been put on notice that our collective security now rests with us. It is no longer a certainty that the United States will come to our rescue. Today, European leaders, including the Prime Minister, will meet in Paris to work out how to respond. That response matters to us all. We are not a periphery by being on a poorly defended, if at all, set of islands on the periphery of Europe any more. Those who complain and moan about military spending will soon realise that the only thing that is more expensive than investing 3·5% of our GDP on deterrents is paying billions more to repair the damage to our nations that war, like the one in the Ukraine, will bring. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we have a unique challenge on this island.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last week, however, something previously inconceivable happened. The United States, the former guarantor of our Western democracy, signalled clearly that the days when it would:”
“It is sometimes difficult for us, collectively, to rise above the very legitimate concerns that we have in Northern Ireland. We are not insulated, however, from the tectonic shifts in geopolitics that wash around us all. It is often forgotten that Russia invaded the Ukraine in February 2014, which was an event that should have been a wake-up call for everybody across Europe about Vladimir Putin's intent. Since the annexation of the Crimea, the conflict between the Russian state and the Ukraine, and, increasingly, in hybrid forms against us, has descended into all-out war on our continent. There have been attacks that are reminiscent of everything from the horrors of the First World War trenches to the first use of AI and robotics: war that previously was talked about only in science fiction.”
“When you are talking about GB Energy and the importance of the LCM, Minister, I would like you to address what we are doing about a review of the I-SEM, which is being anticompetitive and really creating significant problems in how we are looking at our future energy market and in how we get to the decarbonisation of energy by 2030. <BR /> <BR />My final remark is to my friends to my right. I really miss my learned friend Mr Frew, who would normally talk quite a lot about these issues. Minister, I re-emphasise that the Ulster Unionist Party will support the LCM, and I look forward to your remarks.”
“Maybe the Minister will address why her officials and Department are not engaging directly with GB Energy to ask why significant investment is not also coming to us to try to make green hydrogen. <BR /> <BR />We have talked about offshore wind, but it is important that a significant investment goes into the Celtic Sea for that. The critical point is to make sure that we have appropriate interconnection across these islands — not just this island but these islands. These islands need to be directly linked to the European market, and, again, we need to look at that, because, far from being supportive of that, the I-SEM is anticompetitive.”
“It is vital that we build not only the North/South interconnector at a cost that is reasonable — in that it will not be buried all the way — but a second interconnector that goes east-west to support that. That is critical. <BR /> <BR />The next issue is about hydrogen. GB Energy is key to moving towards green hydrogen. We know that there are ample opportunities in Northern Ireland for the rapid adoption of green hydrogen and for us to be able to take a waste product, particularly from the agriculture sector, and turn it into a useful product. That will need regulatory frameworks, but I note, Minister, that, so far, the only areas in which investment in green hydrogen is going ahead are in the Merseyside region.”
“That is important, because if we are to have a workable offshore wind industry in Northern Ireland, we need to resolve the issue with the Crown Estate and how we can move on. The Minister will be aware — or she should be following her first day brief from her predecessor — that several companies wish to invest in offshore wind in Northern Ireland. There are two main hold-ups to that. The first seems to be the interrelationship with the Crown Estate, which we need to deal with at speed. The second hold-up is due to issues with interconnection. I never really got a satisfactory answer from the Minister's predecessor about what his views were on interconnection.”
“We have heard about the integrated single electricity market (I-SEM), but we are in a fairly strange situation in that, while our electricity market is part of an all-island regulatory and budgetary framework, it is, in fact, only connected to GB. One of the things that we need to see is whether there will be sufficient investment in the new Lir interconnector that has to go in and whether there have been any developments on the North/South interconnector. Maybe the Minister will address those issues. Quite frankly, at the moment, the I-SEM is only a series of methodologies to transfer funds with no physical linkage. That is a considerable problem for energy security. <BR /> <BR />One of the other issues with GB Energy is its links with the Crown Estate.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party supports the LCM. I declare an interest, because, when GB Energy was first mooted, I had conversations with the current UK Government about its remit and what it was likely to do. Specifically, we looked at the £8·3 billion of investment that is supposed to be made over time, where it is likely to go and the amount of it that is expected to come to Northern Ireland. The indications were that somewhere in the region of £500 million to £600 million is expected to come to Northern Ireland from GB Energy. <BR /> <BR />The Great British Energy Bill contains some elements that are crucial to Northern Ireland.”
“I encourage everybody to support the motion. I thank my esteemed friend Diana Armstrong for bringing it to the Floor. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the debate. Over to you.”
“It is my fourth. There you go, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I keep to the rules. <BR /> <BR />There is the important question of small business rate relief and the burden on small businesses. Many tourism and hospitality businesses are in the SME sector. The larger firms do not have the same degree of difficulty, because, as has been pointed out, they can spread their burden across other sides of their industry and business. For the SME sector, that will be critical. We have to look at that. I urge the Minister to look at it expeditiously and to push ahead with it as quickly as possible. <BR /> <BR />I think that I have wittered on enough. A bit like my learned friend on the other side of the Chamber, I have spoken an awful lot today. I am chairing the next debate, so I will probably speak ever more.”
“Considerable investment should be made in Belfast International Airport to improve the tourism product on the island. Many people in Northern Ireland would wish to be able to go straight into and out of Northern Ireland, particularly to the United States and other places. We should push for that as well. <BR /> <BR />On rate relief, I will make another declaration of interest — I think that it is my third —.”
“I think that one of our learned friends mentioned corporation tax. That is also a significant issue. Again, given the significant costs of the Irish Sea border, there is no reason why that should have to come off the Barnett formula, bearing in mind the peculiar circumstances that have been created by the Irish Sea border and that nobody in the Assembly wants or wishes to support . <BR /> <BR />I will talk about a few other issues that were raised. They are important. We have already mentioned air passenger duty and connectivity. People will be aware, of course, of the issue with Dublin Airport's capacity. Dublin Airport is at capacity. There is an opportunity for enhanced air operations on the island. The ideal place to do it — I declare an interest as an MLA for South Antrim — is Belfast International Airport.”
“One area that we need to look at is the hospitality industry. It is not just a question of differential VAT, which is important, but, if the Republic of Ireland goes back down to 9·5%, we should look at that and try to achieve it as well.”
“It is the Irish Sea border that has created the problem, so we need to ensure that we get a level playing field across this island, and these islands, particularly in specific areas.”
“I declare an interest, because I was talking to Lord Murphy less than two weeks ago in the House of Lords, and that was one of the issues that I raised, so thank you. Lady Ritchie was probably listening in in the background and then decided to push on with that idea as well. <BR /> <BR />It is significant, because it is an area that we should be looking at. The ability to have differential VAT rates is something that is allowed for and was in provisions that we had previously. Doing so does not necessarily take it out of the Barnett formula. There are mechanisms in place whereby it does not have to come across from the Barnett formula for the reason of the excessive cost of the Irish Sea border.”
“There are specific rules and regulations in the protocol and in the Treasury's own rules about looking at derogations when they come through. What is very clear is that there is a significant cost from the Irish Sea border, and that is a fiscal cost. As numerous Prime Ministers — there have been quite a few, some of whom are probably more akin to vegetables — have pointed out clearly, we should be looking at where the costs lie for things such as the Irish Sea border. There should be ameliorations made to where those costs lie, and those particular ameliorations could be looked for through the review of the TCA but also through the Joint Committee. <BR /> <BR />Yes, please, Mr O'Toole, come and speak to me.”
“No, I will not. Just wait. I will let you in later. <BR /> <BR />That is important. Conversations are happening now in the lead-up up to next year's review of the trade and cooperation agreement (TCA), so the Minister, other Ministers and the Executive themselves should be making representations to the Joint Committee. As part of that conversation, it is key that we look at the whole idea of having a level playing field. Rightly, other Members have raised the issue of the rise in National Insurance contributions and the increase in the national living wage. Those are costs for businesses, but they are not the most significant costs with which our hospitality industry is having to deal. <BR /> <BR />There are other issues involved as well. We have heard about air passenger duty.”
“It is a question of using the protocol, as much as we like or dislike it — I know that Mr Gaston raised issues, and I have real concerns about the protocol and all the rest of it — to push the case for businesses in Northern Ireland in order to make them work.”
“Article 11 specifically mentions necessary areas of cooperation, one of which is tourism, and it talks about the North/South issues involved. There is no doubt that a VAT rate that is currently at 15% but is to go down to 9·5% is anti-competitive. Indeed, if it were the other way around, we would be looking at taking a case, through the various structures available, to be able to engage on that issue. <BR /> <BR />Other nations — for instance, Norway — have done similar things. That is therefore an area that we should be looking at pursuing through the Joint Committee. That is what we refer to in our motion, Minister.”
“I use that word "all-islands" very clearly. If we look specifically at where VAT is, we see that it is quite clear that there are issues that could and should be raised with the Joint Committee. I do not believe that that is an area with which the Joint Committee has engaged itself seriously. I know that the Minister, the leader of the Opposition and others present are fully aware of the protocol and some of the issues in it. Article 10, which talks about state aid and its implications, has been used previously as a reason not to look at making changes to APD and other issues. When one looks at the protocol, however, that is not what it states. If we look at article 11, the issue is how we engage with the Joint Committee.”
“Thank you very much indeed, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank every Member for the debate and for its tone, which was very productive. It was important, because we recognised the central importance of the hospitality industry in Northern Ireland and the fact that it has the potential to grow considerably and needs support to do that. As I go through my contribution, I will not repeat what everybody said, because you all made your points very clearly and eloquently, but three key themes ran through the debate. Minister, I will address my remarks to you, because it will be quite germane to your work. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will be aware that the third paragraph of article 8 of the Northern Ireland protocol talks about a derogation to do with VAT and the importance of where that sits in the all-islands economy.”
“I thank the Minister for her remarks so far. I declare an interest as chair of the all-party group on aerospace, defence, security and space. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will be aware of the importance of apprenticeships. Indeed, last week, in the Assembly, we had a meeting on apprenticeships in aerospace, defence, security and space. However, there are real issues with apprenticeship training schemes and the ability of the further education sector to support them. One reason for that is the lack of support coming through from organisations such as Invest NI to enable the sector to remove those bottlenecks. What will the Minister do to sort out those bottlenecks and ensure that apprenticeships are capable of delivery?”
“They have all been conveniently ignored and forgotten by those who, in their antisemitic myopia, can only chastise Israel. <BR /> <BR />Quite a few reasonable people have noted the lack of commentary since Saturday to condemn the treatment of those three men. It is more than noteworthy that those Members of the Assembly who regularly chastise Israel for its actions, as well as the Irish president, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the whole body of antisemitism on this island, have remained silent. That speaks volumes about their motives. We should all be worried about that. Or, Ohad and Eli deserve better. I hope that, for once, those naysayers will join me in wishing justice for the victims of 7 October, the release of all the hostages and peace in the Middle East.”
“The fact that Hamas had murdered his wife and two teenage daughters on 7 October 2023 and kept that information from Eli is beyond heartless, yet they made him talk about it in the interview. It is also clear that, unlike their capturers, jailors and torturers, Eli, Ohad and Or, having spent 491 days in captivity, are suffering from severe physical and mental deterioration, including malnutrition, decreased muscle mass, heart disorders and prolonged infection. Comparing their condition with that of the obviously well-fed Hamas members brings sharply to the fore the difference between the reality and the false narratives peddled by so many. The comparison of Or, Ohad and Eli with the victims of the Holocaust is apt. They should also be compared with the victims of ISIS, the Houthis and Hezbollah.”
“On Saturday, Or Levy, Ohad Ben Ami and Eli Sharabi were released as part of the hostages-for-terrorists swap in the latest Middle East peace initiative. The three men were paraded for Hamas social media propaganda, with the despicable spectacle of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) facilitating the terrorists' theatrics despite the clearly known requirement for impartiality and discretion. ICRC officials shaking hands with the terrorists for their propaganda needs is well short of what is expected from the Red Cross, a point that I for one, who has contributed to the charity in the past, duly noted. I will never support it again. <BR /> <BR />The interview of Eli by the Hamas terrorists was cruel and evil, even by their standards.”
“It was only on Friday, at our South Antrim AGM in Ballyclare, that we elected him, unopposed, as the chair of our association. <BR /> <BR />Above all, to me, he was a friend and confidante, and he always had a very ready sense of humour, as those of us who knew him know. All our party's thoughts are with his family, especially Gordon, Stephen and Nigel. Jim, safe into the night. You are in our prayers; you will be missed.”