Steve Aiken
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, as well as the move to reduce the cost to the Assembly of vacant non-domestic properties and to increase liability so that we will not have so many vacant properties, you will be aware of the Dilapidation Bill and of the conversations that have been taking place in Wales and Scotland about…”
“Instead, that most dysfunctional Department, under the most inept Sinn Féin Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly and a series of grossly over-superannuated permanent secretaries, gave the money back.”
“We know that her Department spends more on legal cases, fighting judicial reviews and being chastised by judges for legal ineptitude and on vesting land and ripping out hedges and fencing and then trying to unvest it and paying even more money to put back the fences and hedges that it took out.”
“We can hardly blame the current permanent secretary, as she has just taken up her post, but, surely, her predecessors must bear some accountability or responsibility, especially considering the senior civil servants' salary scale of between £146,000 and £163,000, with, of course, their taxpayer-funded pension contribution of 34·2% — £218,…”
“It must be said that £181·3 million is a lot of taxpayers' hard-earned money. It is money that is raised from local commuters, vehicle owners, farmers, local businesses, logistics companies and, above all, our constituents — those vital people whom we are elected to represent.”
“The Minister will be aware that, under the public appointments guide published by the Executive Office, it is clear that she is supposed to take independent advice before appointing board members. What independent advice did she receive, particularly about the board members selected?”
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“<BR /> <BR />We need to look at it strategically, and, as Mr Matthew O'Toole has mentioned on several occasions, we can now look at interest rates somewhere close to zero-rate interest or even negative-rate interest for strategic investment. We should be looking at a wide-scale update to our rail network and at how we do that. We also need to look at how we future-proof it for the environment, and the key to that is the question of how we electrify the rail network. That needs to be part of a wider economic strategy in Northern Ireland, and, indeed, part and parcel of our party's proposals to get zero net carbon by 2035 should be a significant investment in rail and how we manage to do that. <BR /> <BR />There are other issues that need to be done.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to refer to another Minister, Danny Kennedy, who in May 2014 introduced a rail investment prioritisation strategy. That was about investing sums of money that today would probably equate to close to £1 billion into the rail infrastructure. As part of that, we wanted to see improvements in the lines to Londonderry and improvements to the trackbed. We also wanted to see improvements so that we could open up the rail network across Northern Ireland in areas where it would work fairly easily. We wanted to see the likes of Glenavy and Crumlin being linked, and we wanted to see the existing rail network being used to its maximum potential, but the rail network needs a considerable amount of investment.”
“I thank the Member from Foyle for bringing the debate to the Floor. It might sound strange that a Member for South Antrim is speaking on the issue of rail links to the north-west, but, as some of you will know, in my previous existence, I was the chief executive of the British Irish Chamber of Commerce, and we spent considerable time trying to promote the north-west. Indeed, one of the most surprising things that we came across was when, in trying to reduce our environmental footprint, we decided to go to Londonderry by train. We reached the unusual situation where, when we arrived in Belfast on the Enterprise train, the train to Londonderry had just left. The two trains did not even connect up with the timetables, which showed the degree of improvements that needed to be made.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way and for his comments. He raised an interesting point, particularly on the cash totals that we have to be able to deal with in what is now a remarkably short period, bearing in mind that we are rapidly approaching the end of the financial year. We must be able to put those bids in place. On behalf of the Assembly, I ask the Minister to encourage the rest of his ministerial colleagues to expedite that process. We do not have time to waste, and we must be able to support our economy and our businesses as well as our health service.”
“I do not want to chunter from a sedentary position, because I have already been told off for that today. The papers were within the purview of the Executive — the deputy First Minister and First Minister in particular — and it was up to them to decide whether they should be released. The Health Minister has made it very clear that he was more than happy to release the papers and has been for some considerable time. I am glad that the First and deputy First Ministers have decided to allow that information to go out.”
“For clarity, if the Member and other Members cared to check www.health-ni.gov.uk and the detailed evidence papers that are available online, they would realise that that information is now available. I thank the Health Minister for allowing that to be published. I also thank the members of the Northern Ireland Executive, whose decision it was to put that information out there.”
“I think Agriculture is looking for a new Minister. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for giving way. One of the questions that we should be considering is the 10 years of active underinvestment in our health service; the last decade. It takes more than 10 years to train an anaesthetist and more than seven years to train an ICU specialist. We must reflect on how we manage to depoliticise Health, going forward, because we have to invest in it. We cannot invent staff, and that is the critical shortcoming that we have.”
“I do not know what is going on in your party, you could be.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to apologise for chuntering from a sedentary position. I may have sounded a bit like an honourable Member from South Belfast, but I apologise profusely.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. We will continue to spar on this for a very long time and until "RHI 2" is put where it belongs: nowhere. <BR /> <BR />There is a significant issue here that I would like the Minister to consider. Will she consider commissioning an independent review of the business case from Arc21, bearing in mind the disquiet among people in Northern Ireland over the renewable heat incentive (RHI) scheme and, indeed, the renewables obligation (RO) scheme? We do not want to find ourselves in a position in which, yet again, we are subsidising something that will not support the people of Northern Ireland.”
“One of the issues that the Minister will have discussed is the importance of North/South communications and trade and the vital need for the York Street interchange to be built as quickly as possible. Can the Minister reflect on where we are with the York Street interchange and on the importance that it has for all-island and, indeed, all-islands communications and logistics?”
“<BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that the Department and the Minister have recognised that there has been inconsistency, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the Committee will wish to explore that with the Minister when it formally considers the issue at its meeting tomorrow. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the wider Budget process, I look forward to getting it on a level footing in future. I also look forward to a memorandum of understanding being agreed between the Assembly and the Executive so that we can all fully play our part in planning, monitoring and scrutinising Budgets, Estimates and Budget Bills. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Committee for Finance, I support the motion.”
“Those key questions need to be answered to provide the Assembly, and the wider public, with the necessary assurances that appropriate controls are in place to ensure that public money is used appropriately and that there are sufficient checks and balances to safeguard that. In the absence of Department of Finance approval, how can we, as an Assembly, draw confidence from the process if Departments can use public money under sole authority, without the necessary safeguards being observed? The Department must lead by example. It must ensure that the highest standards of financial accountability are adhered to across government to maintain the integrity of public-sector financial processes.”
“Minister, it would therefore be helpful if you would clarify whether it is lawful for a Department to incur expenditure under sole authority prior to formal approval being given and whether Department of Finance approval can, indeed, be given retrospectively.”
“I consider that to be an important point to note because, although the Department stated that verbal confirmation was provided to the two Departments concerned, the appropriate approvals were not formally in place at the time of the Estimates being laid.”
“Although the Committee is yet to formally consider the content of those approvals, I am struck by the timing of some of them. The Main Estimates, which included those black-box items, and the associated Bill were formally laid in the Assembly on 13 October. As I highlighted during yesterday's debate, the Committee for Finance received advance copies of those, which were considered at its meeting on 6 October. It is therefore interesting to note the Department's approach: two formal Department of Finance approval letters were dated only last Friday,16 October, which was after the Committee had asked to see them. In contrast, other approvals had been issued by email.”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />Concerns have also been expressed by some other Statutory Committees about the flow and timing of information relating to budgetary matters, which makes it difficult for those Chairpersons to fully contribute to debates, such as this one on the Budget Bill. As I said during yesterday's Supply resolution debate, the Committee has, in the course of its work, taken a particular interest in black-box items. There are six items of expenditure for which the Assembly's approval is being sought today under sole authority of the Budget (No. 3) Bill. The Committee sought copies of the Department of Finance's approval letters for that expenditure. Those approval letters were received during yesterday's debate on the Supply resolution for the Main Estimates and were circulated to Committee members in advance of today's debate.”
“Across government, there needs to be an acknowledgement and acceptance that scrutiny Committees must be afforded adequate time to enable them to contribute through constructive scrutiny to influence at the formative stages of the Budget process. Members of our Committee — and I, from my own personal perspective — never want to hear again a member of another Committee saying that they have not had adequate information, or an adequate flow of information, coming through. I understand, in particular, the concerns of the Justice Committee in that area. I hope, Minister, that we will emphasise to the rest of your Executive colleagues that the timely flow of information is vital if we are to conduct our roles effectively.”
“The provision of budgetary information is important both for the Finance Committee's strategic cross-cutting scrutiny role and for individual Statutory Committees to fulfill their role in monitoring and scrutinising progress at departmental level. The role of Statutory Committees in scrutinising departmental spending and monitoring savings, as well as service delivery, will, I am sure, only intensify, particularly as a result of the social and economic challenges that we all face and will continue to face in the future. <BR /> <BR />Thorough scrutiny can add real value, but, for it to be effective, the flow and timing of information is critical.”
“I make it clear, once and for all, that that is not the case. The Department of Finance has a vital role in ensuring that the Committee for Finance has been appropriately consulted on the policy proposals contained in Budget Bills so that it is in a position to write to the Speaker to that effect and, thus, grant accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />That stated, there has been suitable engagement with the Minister and departmental officials on budgetary matters since we have resumed business. I hope that we continue in that vein throughout the remainder of this mandate. That engagement has included advance pre-introductory briefings on any ministerial statements, engagement relating to the up-to-date positions on COVID allocations and the appearance of officials during formal Committee meetings.”
“You might even say that the granting of accelerated passage has been taken for granted. The Department provided a very useful briefing paper to the Committee, but it contained one phrase of concern:”
“<BR /> <BR />Traditionally, there seems to have been an assumption that the Committee for Finance will automatically grant accelerated passage to Budget Bills.”
“<BR /> <BR />As Members may recall, it was necessary to bring forward a further Vote on Account and associated Budget Bill to ensure that Departments incurring higher than anticipated spending as a result of the COVID pandemic would not exceed their voted limits. As with other Budget Bills, the Department of Finance highlighted the need for the Bill to progress by accelerated passage. As Members may be aware, the Committee has a unique role in determining whether a Budget Bill should proceed via accelerated passage. In this regard, the Committee, at its meeting last week, agreed to grant accelerated passage to the Bill under Standing Order 42(2) on the basis of having been consulted appropriately on the expenditure provisions within it, and I wrote to the Speaker to confirm this decision.”
“As outlined, the Bill makes provision for the balance of cash and resources required to reflect the departmental spending plans in the 2020-21 Main Estimates. These are based on the Executive's Budget, which was approved by the Assembly earlier this year. The Bill also includes provisions for excess cash and resource requirements. The Committee noted that this matter has been considered by the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) and reported on by the Public Accounts Committee, which recommended that the necessary sums be provided by Excess Votes. The Committee had no observations on this recommendation.”
“Yes, well, I think that I am still the Chair of the Finance Committee. Thank you very much indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his remarks so far.”
“We do not quibble over them; rather, we get behind them. Frankly, Members of the Assembly, we do not have the time or the space in which to do that. The Ulster Unionist Party supports the amendment regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last week, the party leaders came together to say that we would support whatever came out of the Executive and put our full-hearted support behind that. We as party leaders also committed our parties to doing exactly the same thing. That is because COVID does not respect politicians. COVID does not respect political parties. What we have to do is break the transmission path. To do that, the people of Northern Ireland need to have confidence in the message that is coming from us. They have to have confidence that the Northern Ireland Executive are making the right decisions. <BR /> <BR />I therefore send a message from the Assembly to all those healthcare workers who tonight are about to go on a shift in some fairly horrendous conditions that we support them and that we do so by supporting these rules and regulations.”
“The reason that we did that was to prevent our health service from otherwise being overwhelmed. This is no longer a question of, "We do a bit of this or we do a bit of that". We all have to join together to prevent our health service from being overwhelmed. <BR /> <BR />All of us — every single MLA here — will know people who are healthcare professionals. We know people who have been on ICUs. We know people who are fearful about going into work for their next shift because of what they might see and what they might receive. They are also extremely angry about what they see as politicians, the Assembly and the Executive not coming together to make the right choices and the right decisions. They want to see us all working together.”
“The best way that we have of defeating this virus is to stop giving it an opportunity, because this virus exploits weakness, it exploits ignorance, it exploits dissension, it exploits complacency and it exploits bigotry. What it must not be allowed to do is to overwhelm us. <BR /> <BR />We have an opportunity to come together. On Tuesday, the Northern Ireland Executive decided to make particular rules and regulations and put in particular procedures that will help us get to through this next part of the COVID pandemic.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party supports the amendments, but I wish to make a couple of comments. First, as we all know, this is a global pandemic that does not recognise race, gender, religion, political affiliation or anything else. In fact, as I have said on several occasions, it is an equal opportunity killer that has no regard for who you are or what postcode area you live in. <BR /> <BR />As we all know, regrettably, with pandemics, there will be multiple waves, and we are now dealing with the second wave. We can see the impact not just on this island or on these islands but across Europe and the world. If anybody noticed what was happening in Belgium or France today, they would realise that this has a long way to go.”
“It looks as if Belfast International Airport will no longer be able to operate on a 24-hour basis. I am afraid that the Economy Department has been rather laggardly in putting forward bids to support the airport. Will the Minister encourage his Department, which seems to be more capable of getting money for the airports and airlines, to look at the situation and endeavour fairly quickly to make sure that we have at least one aviation facility in Northern Ireland that is fully capable of 24-hour operation?”
“3) Bill that is due to be introduced later in today's business. I cannot overstate how important it is that relevant, complete and timely information is provided by government to the Assembly and its Committees to help to provide for a more comprehensive dialogue and a greater understanding of what is quite a convoluted process. In that regard, the Committee and the Department are on the same page. I urge all Departments and scrutiny Committees to actively engage throughout the year. It was on that basis and on the regular and timely engagement that the Committee agreed, at its meeting last week, that it is content to grant accelerated passage, as provided for in Standing Order 42(2).”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee also noted that the Northern Ireland Audit Office is undertaking an examination of the budgetary process. We look forward to seeing the conclusion of that work, including any conclusions or recommendations from the Comptroller and Auditor General. I also look forward to hearing from the Minister how the report will be used to inform his Department's ongoing review of the financial process. <BR /> <BR />As the House is aware, the Committee for Finance has a specific function to play when considering whether a Budget Bill should proceed under the accelerated passage procedure. I place on record my appreciation, on behalf of the Committee, for the timely receipt of information to help us to determine whether the Committee would be content to grant accelerated passage to the Budget (No.”
“To gain a clearer understanding of how that process works and to satisfy itself that there are sufficient controls in place to ensure that spending under sole authority is used appropriately, the Committee requested further information from the Department on the conditions attached to each area of spend. I had hoped to have the information in time to inform today's debate. I ask the Minister to provide that information to the Committee's office as soon as possible, so that I can update the House tomorrow during debate on the Budget (No. 3) Bill. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the Statement of Excesses, at its meeting on 16 September, the Committee considered the recent report from the Public Accounts Committee and noted its recommendation that the necessary amounts are provided by the Assembly.”
“However, for this financial year, a proportion will be contained under sole authority to take account of the period prior to the order coming into effect.”
“However, in the case of Northern Ireland Screen, members questioned officials on the continued use of that provision as contained in the Main Estimates in view of the Northern Ireland Screen Commission (Funding) Order (Northern Ireland) 2020, which provides for the Department for the Economy to make grants. In response, officials confirmed that, going forward, that funding would not use the black-box provisions.”
“The Committee noted that the Main Estimates contain black-box provisions on six areas of spend that total over £58 million and sought to ensure that the criteria are being adhered to. The Committee noted that, in some instances, that expenditure either exceeds the small levels of expenditure, as in the case of welfare reform mitigation, and/or exceeds the two-year short period, as seen for supporting the operations of HMS Caroline. In response to questions from members, officials acknowledged that that was due to the inability to bring forward legislation as the Assembly was not sitting.”
“Officials conceded that that could be an area for consideration but that borrowing would need to be balanced to take account of the repayment element of resource spending. Again, it would be helpful if the Minister outlined what the current repayment element is on RRI borrowing and whether the cost is met centrally or by the responsible Department. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also explored in detail the provisions under sole authority where spending may be allocated. The Committee was previously informed that that black-box spending occurs when it is for relatively small levels of expenditure below £1·5 million, for a relatively short period of not more than two years or to allow an urgent service to be delivered pending the development of new legislation.”
“It therefore questioned officials to ascertain how FTC could be best utilised in order to provide loans or equity to private-sector entities as a means of driving the economy forward. In response, officials acknowledged that the Department for the Economy is aware of the available provision of FTC. However, it is not clear what plans may be in development to identify how that may be made available to private entities as an alternative source of finance. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, members explored whether consideration may be given to utilising reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing to supplement any transfer capital in the event of Her Majesty's Treasury allowing flexibility to transfer capital DEL to resource. In response, officials outlined the position for the 2020-21 financial year, where there has been no RRI borrowing.”
“<BR /> <BR />Officials also highlighted the fact that additional flexibility could provide an option to see a more dynamic response to any last-minute changes late in the financial year and to respond to any emerging pressures. Given that the Budget exchange scheme has been operating for 10 years now, it would be helpful to hear the Minister's assessment of whether the scheme remains fit for purpose and whether there are any plans or proposals to review it. <BR /> <BR />As Members will also be aware, financial transactions capital (FTC) is an area of borrowing that, in the past, has been challenging, to say the least, for the Executive to utilise fully. The Committee noted that some £70 million of the 2020-21 FTC provision has not yet been allocated.”
“In response, officials clarified that the Department closely monitors the overall Budget position on a monthly basis to ensure that overall spending is within permitted limits and that Departments declare any reduced requirements as early as possible to enable those to be considered and, where necessary, reallocated in-year by the Executive. In addition, following the Minister's oral statement on 6 October that called for greater flexibility from Her Majesty's Treasury, the Committee sought an assurance from officials that any areas of underspend will be surrendered early in this financial year to safeguard against it being lost to Her Majesty's Treasury in the event that any additional flexibility is not provided.”
“Senior departmental officials briefed the Committee for Finance at its meeting last Wednesday on the Main Estimates and the associated Budget (No. 3) Bill. In advance of the meeting, the Department of Finance provided the Committee with a briefing paper, together with advance copies of the Estimates and the Bill. In examining the Main Estimate position, the Committee questioned officials to establish whether specific business areas might be at increased risk of underspend, particularly as a result of the pandemic, including the scale of any underspend and how that may affect the overall agreed limits under the Budget exchange scheme.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement so far. As the Minister highlighted, the Main Estimates and Budget Bill are traditionally brought forward much earlier in the financial year. However, given the unprecedented events arising from the pandemic and its impact on our associated spending, that was delayed to ensure that departmental positions are accurately reflected in the Estimates, with the most up-to-date position.”
“Thank you very much indeed, First Minister, for making the statement to us today. On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I pass on our thanks to the Northern Ireland Executive, and all the parties in it, for coming to these particular difficult decisions in the time in which they had to make them and in these challenging circumstances, particularly regarding the impact on our health service. <BR /> <BR />Bearing in mind the importance of what we need to do to make societal changes, what are we doing to ensure that our Executive, and the parties supporting them, communicate effectively and deal with these issues? We all, collectively, need to work together to ensure that the message goes out to the people of Northern Ireland that we have to make these changes because we do not, and our health service does not, have the time.”
“Among the keys to future renewable energy issues will be contracts for difference and the important decision of whether we go for a United Kingdom-wide system, using Ofgem, or look to another system. We should not try to reinvent the wheel. We seem to get it badly wrong every time we do so, whether it is for wind, RHI boilers or trying to build the incineration-to-power plants that are not needed in my constituency. <BR /> <BR />I am about to sit down to give more time to Gerry Carroll. I would like the Minister to address those points. We support the motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to investigate the monopoly of the ESB and EirGrid or, as they are better known in Northern Ireland, NIE and the System Operator for Northern Ireland (SONI), and the implications for the Northern Ireland energy market, particularly with how it affects and distorts prices and pricing, and the impact on people who are trying to put renewables onto the grid. The Minister will be well aware from her predecessor, who introduced the monopoly system, that that needs to be fundamentally reviewed. <BR /> <BR />We need to consider whether we have a system that is fit for purpose and is capable of dealing with future energy policy in Northern Ireland. The key thing that we have to consider is whether Northern Ireland is too small to have its own regulation system.”
“It is about what we need to do with a new energy strategy. The important point about that strategy is with some of the things to which we need to look. We need to install new smart grids. We need to conduct studies into the feasibility of offshore wind and how it can mix into the wider all-island and pan-European energy markets. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's commitment to hydrogen. For our farmers, in particular, who are looking to the future, it is important that we look at the use of biogas and hydrogen. We should consider whether our Utility Regulator is fit for purpose to allow us to inject energy from hydrogen and biogas directly into the grid.”
“Thank you very much indeed, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Of course I shall be generous. I shall try to keep my remarks to about three minutes to allow Gerry to speak. We should do that in the spirit of cooperation. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion for a very clear reason: in Northern Ireland, we do not wish to have drilling for hydrocarbons such as gas, gas fracking or petroleum. The reason for that is quite simple: we are moving away from a hydrocarbon era and into an era of renewables, smart grids and the appropriate use of new technologies to provide energy for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Bearing in mind that that is the case and that I wish to keep my remarks short, I will move on to the specific questions about what we need, rather than proposals for drilling for oil and gas in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the First Minister for coming today at such short notice. Did the First Minister and the deputy First Minister get the opportunity to express to the United States special envoy to Northern Ireland the importance of people in Washington reading and understanding the Belfast Agreement?”
“Will the Minister seek to introduce food labelling for all products that are being imported to Northern Ireland to demonstrate that Northern Ireland food is of a much better standard, and, therefore, we can quantify to our consumers that eating Northern Ireland and British food is, in fact, best?”