Steve Aiken
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, as well as the move to reduce the cost to the Assembly of vacant non-domestic properties and to increase liability so that we will not have so many vacant properties, you will be aware of the Dilapidation Bill and of the conversations that have been taking place in Wales and Scotland about…”
“Instead, that most dysfunctional Department, under the most inept Sinn Féin Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly and a series of grossly over-superannuated permanent secretaries, gave the money back.”
“We know that her Department spends more on legal cases, fighting judicial reviews and being chastised by judges for legal ineptitude and on vesting land and ripping out hedges and fencing and then trying to unvest it and paying even more money to put back the fences and hedges that it took out.”
“We can hardly blame the current permanent secretary, as she has just taken up her post, but, surely, her predecessors must bear some accountability or responsibility, especially considering the senior civil servants' salary scale of between £146,000 and £163,000, with, of course, their taxpayer-funded pension contribution of 34·2% — £218,…”
“It must be said that £181·3 million is a lot of taxpayers' hard-earned money. It is money that is raised from local commuters, vehicle owners, farmers, local businesses, logistics companies and, above all, our constituents — those vital people whom we are elected to represent.”
“The Minister will be aware that, under the public appointments guide published by the Executive Office, it is clear that she is supposed to take independent advice before appointing board members. What independent advice did she receive, particularly about the board members selected?”
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“I thank the Member very much indeed for giving way. The Member talks about the European Union's move towards net zero carbon by 2050, but she will also be aware that, in various European countries, including France, Spain and, I understand, Germany, there are different targets for different regions. Why would there be a set of different targets across France, Spain or, indeed, Germany and not within our great nation, the United Kingdom?”
“The Department also advised that, even if they had been progressed, the period for resolution would necessarily be quite prolonged. It seemed clear that hard-pressed businesses would not secure relief from that source on any useful timescale. It is, therefore, understood that it would be far better for the Executive to provide targeted and well-thought-out COVID relief measures in order to address those important COVID business problems. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has not taken a formal view on the suspension of the Standing Order. However, given the foregoing, we might conclude that there is little point delaying the progress of the Bill. It is regrettable, however, that the Department failed to warn the Committee that it was to follow that course of action, thus saving the Minister from yet another debate.”
“I thank the Minister for his opening remarks. I intend to make further remarks on behalf of the Committee at Final Stage, when I hope that I will be able to comment more generally on the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill. For now, I will address the motion. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly denied accelerated passage to the Bill. However, members of the Finance Committee indicated in plenary that we would facilitate its expedited passage. To that end, the Committee took evidence quickly in December and reported promptly on the Committee Stage in early January. We learned during our abbreviated considerations that there had been a number of related valuation appeals. The Department indicated that those had been stayed.”
“The key question has just been asked by my friend from North Antrim. The issue is where we get to VAT and how we get to that point. Is the Minister proposing and making recommendations to the Joint Committee that Northern Ireland should be looked on favourably? As the Minister is aware, Northern Ireland is probably in a worse position with fuel poverty than anywhere else in our nation.”
“Will the Minister confirm that, if there is no agreed Budget by the end of the financial year, going forward, we will be limited to 45% of the total Budget in-year? That would be a significant challenge to all our public services.”
“The legislation will allow those who are entitled to it to receive a non-actuarially reduced pension at age 60 rather than at state pension age. Perhaps, again, the Minister could indicate in his winding-up speech why the Department believes that that will not act as an enticement for public-sector workers to retire earlier than might have been expected before the McCloud remedy. Perhaps, he could also confirm why the Department thinks that those unexpected retirements will not generate problems for the delivery of public services.”
“In turn, that could conceivably generate a liability against the block grant if our public-service pension schemes generated a cost cap breach that is not recognised by HM Treasury. The Committee was unhappy with the limited timescale for consideration of that matter. It was also concerned about the potential for an adverse impact for public-sector pensioners. However, given the possibility of an additional liability against the block grant, the Committee felt that, on balance, it had no option other than to support the legislative consent motion. <BR /> <BR />On a related matter, the Committee has asked the Department about the impact of the McCloud remedy on retirement levels in the public sector over the next few years.”
“It appears to mean that the payment of additional benefits or reduction of contributions will occur only if pension scheme performance also meets criteria linked to the long-term performance of our economy. The Committee understands that the detail has not been worked out yet, but the link is expected to be based on long-term GDP. The idea is to limit the situations where cost cap breaches can occur. The unions indicated a lot of concern about that and the potential for an adverse impact for public-sector pensioners. However, the Committee noted that, if the legislation were not passed, Northern Ireland's public-sector pensions might be out of step with those of the rest of the United Kingdom.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second legislative consent motion refers to further changes that cover the cost cap calculation mechanism. There are two main issues with that. In respect of the first, which is the different treatment for legacy pension schemes, a correspondent to the Committee suggested that the associated risk of underperformance would fall entirely to those schemes. That seems to be at odds with assurances provided by officials, who suggested that Treasury would assume the related risk. Perhaps, Minister, in your winding-up speech, you could clarify that. Other than that, the Committee found that first aspect of the LCM to be uncontroversial. <BR /> <BR />The second issue refers to a new criterion for cost cap breaches.”
“I thank the Minister for his opening remarks and for the related oral and written briefings that officials have provided to the Committee for Finance on the legislative consent motion and the relevant Westminster legislation. I also thank the public-sector trade unions, which, at short notice, provided the Committee with some useful written submissions. My comments today are made as the Chairperson of the Finance Committee. <BR /> <BR />As indicated in respect of the previous legislative consent motion for the Bill, public-sector pensions are important. They cost around £1·3 billion per annum in Northern Ireland alone and are a vital component of retirement provision in the jurisdiction. The changes that are being made by the Westminster legislation will affect around 130,000 of our public-sector workers and retirees in Northern Ireland.”
“Perhaps the Minister will give the House a general indication of the timescales for the changes to the Estimates process and the introduction of the new memorandum in his winding-up speech. <BR /> <BR />I conclude by thanking the many stakeholders who responded at Committee Stage. I also thank Committee members for their conscientious participation in deliberations on the Bill.”
“It is anticipated that, following the passage of the Bill, a designation order will map non-departmental public bodies to their corresponding Departments. That should ensure the expanded inclusion of NDPB information in the Estimates, which will give us a bit more clarity when it comes to the passage of Budget Acts. <BR /> <BR />In that spirit, the Committee generally welcomed the Bill and endorsed the amendments relating to the inclusion of the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman (NIPSO) in the designation order. The Committee also agreed to accept ministerial assurances around changes to the format of the Estimates and the development of the Estimates memorandum.”
“I thank the Minister for his opening remarks about the Bill. I also thank him and his officials for the oral and written briefing information that they provided to the Committee for Finance during Committee Stage. <BR /> <BR />As I previously indicated, the origin of the Bill is in the review of financial processes that has been under way for some years and is designed to create a financial framework that is effective, efficient and transparent, enhancing scrutiny by and accountability to the Assembly. The Bill is part of that process and allows the Department to issue directions on the format of the Estimates. That will hopefully improve their clarity and their alignment with departmental annual reports and accounts.”
“I put on record the fact that Esmond Birnie is an absolutely exceptional economist. He should not be denigrated in the House, and I hope that Mr O'Toole will withdraw his remarks. <BR /> <BR />Earlier, I asked the deputy First Minister a question about VAT on fuel. It is clear that we will not be able to reduce VAT across the rest of our nation to 5% or lower because of the provisions of the EU protocol. What direct engagement has the Minister had with the Finance Minister and other Ministers across the United Kingdom to make sure that Northern Ireland is not disadvantaged by the ridiculous protocol methodology?”
“The deputy First Minister will be aware from some of the discussions she has on the North/South and east-west dimensions of the issue of VAT on fuel. The Minister will be aware that, in the rest of our nation, it looks as if we will be able to remove VAT on fuel but, because we are saddled with the protocol, we would be in breach of EU regulations if we went for zero-rating on VAT on fuel. Will the Minister comment on whether that is an equitable situation? Should we, in fact, for the good of everybody in Northern Ireland, push to get to the lowest rate of VAT possible on fuel?”
“Have you withheld funding from other Departments in January monitoring to cover that COVID payback pressure? Thank you, Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee has repeatedly raised concern about the capital programme and the difficulty that Departments appear to have getting the money spent. That is the cause of much frustration, especially in the construction sector. I again ask the Minister, given the significant underspend in capital, whether there is a systemic problem across the Executive in respect of capital project management and delivery? If not, why is the capital so significantly underspent again? <BR /> <BR />The Fiscal Council report on the Budget indicates that the Executive have in excess of £150 million of omicron Barnett consequential funding in 2021-22. However, if they spend beyond their Barnett share, the Executive will have to repay the difference to Treasury. Minister, how much omicron money will the Executive have to pay back?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and for meeting me and the Deputy Chairperson earlier today to discuss the key points of it. The Committee will greatly welcome the allocations of resource DEL to the hospitality sector for omicron, to householders to meet energy costs, to Education for special educational needs and to Infrastructure for what appears to be unavoidable spend around energy costs and bus services. <BR /> <BR />It is surprising, given the year that we have had, that the Executive have underspent in resource, FTC and even conventional capital. The Committee will want to think carefully about the FTC and reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) payback measures that, as well as non-ring-fenced DEL, have been employed to meet ring-fenced pressures.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. She mentioned conversations in which the Minister of Finance and the Minister for the Economy, if I heard her correctly, were talking about VAT payments and reducing VAT to 5%. Has she had any conversations with the Treasury? Across our nation — the United Kingdom — the reduction in VAT payments to 5% can be achieved in England, Scotland and Wales, but of course because of the protocol, it cannot be achieved in Northern Ireland because it would be against state aid rules.”
“I thank the Minister for her very comprehensive answer. Has the Minister done a comparison of the impact of omicron and other forms of COVID on the Northern Ireland Prison Service with that on the PSNI? Bearing in mind that we will probably have to deal with future pandemics, have any lessons been identified for how we can support those key staff? Are there any other lessons that we can pass on to the probation service as well?”
“We must collectively strive towards that. Our condolences are with Ashling's family and friends.”
“<BR /> <BR />How have we as a society across these islands allowed ourselves to get to a situation in which fear is predominant? That needs to change, and that change must come from within us: men. We must inculcate in our male community that it is not right, in any circumstances, to use casual sexism or misogyny. That has to stop. It has to stop in the absolute sewer that is social media. It has to stop in how we act, communicate and the rest of it. We must get to a position in which women on these islands feel safe. They cannot go around feeling fearful of everything, because that fear is now being instilled in virtually everything that they do. We must get to a point at which people feel able to walk around their streets and communities, to exercise and to do everything else that they want to do without constant concern and fear.”
“I join my colleagues in the Ulster Unionist Party and everybody else in the Assembly in passing on my condolences to the Murphy family. I speak as a father of four daughters and as a soon-to-be grandfather of a granddaughter; indeed, one of my children is a schoolteacher. <BR /> <BR />The fear amongst our women is palpable. It is there in nearly every aspect of life. As men, we really must ask how we have allowed that situation to occur. How can it be that some of the most vulnerable in society are scared? As my friend has already pointed out, they are scared to go running and to be seen out at night. They worry constantly about what is happening. Indeed, as husbands and fathers, we spend our time looking at WhatsApp and Find My to make sure that we know where our wives and daughters are.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I declare an interest: after close on six decades, I am now the owner of a dog and spend a lot of time out in the countryside. Minister, given the outbreak of avian flu and the way in which it has moved into the wild bird population, what are we doing to inform the public about the challenges? How do we make sure that people do not go around picking up dead birds and that they are fully aware of the challenges set by avian flu?”
“<BR /> <BR />Will the Minister clarify whether the rates holiday is contingent on the passage of the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill? Will the Minister also clarify what will happen to waiting lists and overall health transformation if other Departments and parties decline to provide additional funding from their budgets? Finally, RRI spending has dropped considerably during the current financial year. Will the Minister explain the reasoning behind the increase in RRI spending to £200 million in the draft Budget in the last year of the spending review period, as it seems to be profiled?”
“I thank the Minister for his oral and written statement and for meeting me and the Deputy Chairperson this morning to discuss the main points of the draft Budget. <BR /> <BR />The Committee will certainly welcome a three-year Budget when it is agreed and the vital clarity that will be provided on capital and resource and, indeed, key projects including the vital health transformation, city deals and other Executive commitments. The Committee will also welcome the prospect of a further three-month rates holiday for the hard-pressed businesses that recently lobbied the Committee, as well as what looks like a proposed increase in funding for PSNI staffing and the interim arrangements for the victims' pension scheme.”
“Where are the criteria that allow us to sack people who are not capable of doing their job?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement, and I declare an interest as a member of my family is a registered teacher, or, should I say, is trying to register as a teacher, and has had many difficulties with GTCNI, as have many other teachers across the piece. <BR /> <BR />It has been obvious since 2015 that there was something substantially wrong with GTCNI. There has been a catalogue of failures. Indeed, the consultants' report is one of the most damning reports, outside that on the renewable heat incentive (RHI), that we have heard about in the Assembly. Minister, my question is quite simple: why is the chief executive still there? Why is somebody who has stood over that complete debacle and brought the whole organisation into disrepute still in position? Why do we still have to have people like that?”
“I would be delighted if some new project or idea that evolved in our institutions here — Queen's University Belfast, Ulster University or the Open University — meant that we gained a Nobel Prize in science or something along those lines. We can do it, but we need to set the conditions. The Bill gives us the opportunity to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to properly invest in the structure to enable us to get more than our fair share. Our ambition should not be to get a Northern Ireland proportion, as some form of Barnett consequential, of the moneys available — something like 2·8% or 3·8% of it. I want us to be bold and ambitious. I want us to fight for 10% or even more of those research and development funds. To do that, however, the Executive and your Department, Minister, will have to put in the investment and structure. We need to make sure that our universities become partners, but it must be a partnership across the whole piece. I would love it if you, Minister, or whoever comes after you in the next Assembly, were to come to the Chamber and say that we have secured £1 billion, £2 billion or £3 billion of that long-term research funding.”
“Look at the number of city deals in which the universities are involved in the research and development area. Those need to be properly resourced. We have to build it before we can attract more funding. It is not just a question of building the infrastructure; it is about making Northern Ireland the kind of place that graduates and postgraduates want to come to and raise their family. To do that, we need to make sure that we properly fund PhD and cutting-edge research. <BR /> <BR />Many things have been said about the need to fail. It is the expression of the start-up nation: you need to be able to try things to see what happens. People did not know what graphene was for when they invented it, but it is now transforming everything from power storage facilities to new and novel methods of dealing with medical issues.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Of course, he knows as well as I do that international cooperation is absolutely vital. However, it is about cooperation with not just the European Union but significant universities across the world, particularly those in the United States, Canada, Australia, Singapore and India. Those countries are leading globally in that regard. One thing about the United Kingdom investing significantly in research and development is that it will make it a partner of choice. Indeed, institutions such as CERN rely a lot on primary science that has been done in the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I made a point to the Minister about getting to a point at which we create the necessary infrastructure, such as the tech and innovation hub that is being built at Global Point as part of the city deals.”
“Quite frankly, those areas are all centred in three major universities — Imperial College London, the University of Oxford and the University of Cambridge — and they will suck in billions in R&D unless we can create the infrastructure and ecosystem for our higher education to link into it.”
“If I get my sums right, that means that we will spend in the region of up to £14·6 billion on research and development. That is a significant sum for any nation to invest in research and development. <BR /> <BR />My concern, Minister, and one of the questions that I want to ask you, bearing in mind that part of your remit is universities in Northern Ireland, is this: how do we ensure that our universities get a fair share of that chunk? It is transformational for what we need to do. The fact is that it will be in areas such as AI and quantum mechanics and in areas to do with novel research materials in the life sciences, genomics projects and all the rest of it.”
“I thank the Minister for moving the motion. First, I have a few declarations to make. I am a proud graduate of the Open University and a few other institutions such as the University of Cambridge and King's College London. I am the chair of the all-party group on science, technology, engineering and mathematics, which is germane to what we are doing, and I welcome the fact that the vice-chair is here. That is important. I am also the ex-chief executive of a major university in Dublin. <BR /> <BR />The appropriate question to ask is this: how do we, in Northern Ireland, get leverage from what has been a massive transformational change in the approach to research and development across our nation? The point, which is that the United Kingdom is increasing its investment in R&D from about 1·8% of GDP to 2·4%, is clear.”
“Minister, to clarify: previously, you told us that it was £250 million. You have just said that it is hundreds of millions of pounds and that it was over a particular period, which you have not given the detail of. Can you furnish the Assembly with the detail on the exact working out of the figures as you have them at present? How long is that due to be? Previous briefings have been fairly definitive that it was £250 million. It seems to have shifted.”
“I encourage everybody to read this good document from cover to cover. The total managed expenditure is somewhere around £30·1 billion. Has the Minister directed any of his officials to compare the amount of money that is spent per head of the population in Northern Ireland with that in Scotland or England or, indeed, the Republic of Ireland to realise what a great benefit it is to be part of the United Kingdom? I imagine that that would be a useful figure for all Members of the Assembly to see.”
“Members felt that we could not shoehorn very necessary amendments into the legislation and that what we really need is a dedicated and well-thought-out independent fiscal council Bill. I think that an independent fiscal council is something for which there remains a lot of support in the House. I encourage the Minister and the Executive to impress on officials a clear expectation that progress in that regard will be swift in the coming mandate. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister, his officials and the many stakeholders who responded to the Committee Stage. I thank the Bill Office for its advice. I also thank the members of the Committee for their conscientious participation in the deliberations on the Bill. I, again, apologise for not being here for the beginning of the Minister's contribution.”
“I suspect that that Committee will not hesitate to utilise the future legislation to compel the production of Estimates memoranda in the appropriate format if progress on that proves to be slow. <BR /> <BR />The Committee considered other matters. Most were quite straightforward and are explained in the Committee's report. One of the issues that we considered was the establishment of an independent fiscal council. The Committee is very disappointed that an independent fiscal council for Northern Ireland will not be established in this mandate. Members are concerned that, despite the obvious value of the current Fiscal Council, legislation is not being drafted. That said, the Committee elected not to table related amendments to the Bill.”
“As before, the Committee was persuaded by the Fiscal Council that, although the memoranda were a good idea, it might be counterproductive to specify all the details in legislation. The Committee, therefore, agreed to accept ministerial assurances that Estimates memoranda will be produced in a timely manner and in a format that is similar to that that is used elsewhere. Again, I hope that the Minister will reiterate those assurances. <BR /> <BR />It is anticipated that phase 2 of the reform of the financial processes may require more primary legislation. I hope that, when the successor Finance Committee looks at the legislation, it will consider the deliberations of our Committee.”
“However, it was persuaded by the Fiscal Council that legislation might burden the Estimates with useless detail and might even prevent useful improvements that may be agreed by the Fiscal Council, the Department and our Committee. The Committee consequently agreed to accept ministerial assurances on changes to the format of the Estimates in those regards. I hope that the Minister will reiterate those assurances today during his winding-up speech. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also noted the use of Estimates memoranda in other jurisdictions. Those accompany the Estimates. They are written in plain English and include the use of trend data, which can be very helpful to Members as they scrutinise spending decisions. The Committee again seriously considered tabling amendments to oblige the Department to produce those Estimates memoranda.”
“As the Bill is short and largely technical, with limited scope, the Committee did not pursue amendments relating to the wider Budget process, including the timing of Budget consultations and the passage of Budget Acts. The Committee instead confined its consideration to the measures that might enhance financial scrutiny. <BR /> <BR />Estimates are the key foundational scrutiny documents for the approval of departmental spending. Our Committee has complained loud and long about their impenetrability and their absence of detailed information, including on NDPB spending, which can amount to billions of pounds; income, which is also known as accruing resources; and EU funding. The Committee very seriously considered tabling amendments that would address those issues.”
“That should ensure expansion of the Estimates to include NDPB information, which would give us all a bit more clarity when it comes to the passage of the Budget Act. In that spirit, the Committee generally welcomed the Bill and agreed to endorse the amendments, which relate to NIPSO's inclusion in the designation order. <BR /> <BR />With the Deputy Speaker's indulgence, I will say a little about the Committee Stage of the Bill. The Committee commissioned research and wrote to about 100 NDPBs and to a number of other bodies with an interest in fiscal scrutiny, including the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council. The Committee deliberated on the relevant provisions at a number of meetings.”
“Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />I also thank the Minister for the oral and written briefings that he provided to the Committee for Finance during Committee Stage. The origin of the Bill is in the review of the financial process that has been under way for some years. That is designed to create a financial framework that is effective, efficient and transparent and that enhances scrutiny by and accountability to the Assembly. The Bill is part of that process, allowing the Department to issue directions on the format of the Estimates. That will, hopefully, improve their clarity and their alignment with departmental annual reports and accounts. <BR /> <BR />It is anticipated that, following the passage of the Bill, a designation order will map non-departmental public bodies to corresponding Departments.”
“First, Mr Deputy Speaker, Minister and Members, I apologise for not being in my place for the accelerated pace of the business that we are moving through today. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for his opening remarks on the amendments to the Bill. Are we happy with those opening remarks, Mr Deputy Chairperson?”
“I thank the Minister for her remarks so far. Minister, you talked about refurbishing Enniskillen's HQ and how some property was being sold off. What property has been sold off? What investment is happening in the Enniskillen headquarters? Why is the asset inspection being accelerated? Is that a precursor to further sell-offs?”
“Minister, did you have the opportunity to talk to the Chief Ministers of Jersey and Guernsey respectively on concerns about fishing, particularly the disgraceful act of the French in preventing fishing vessels from across our nation, including those from Kilkeel and Scotland, from using their waters? Did you have an opportunity to talk about the threat from the French to cut off the power supply to Jersey? Has there been any attempt by the British-Irish Council to send a very strong message to France and the EU to stop that, frankly, predatory activity in our waters?”
“We should not allow financial transactions capital (FTC) to go back. We should use that £66 million. We should hold the likes of ESB to account to make sure that they deliver what they are supposed to. We have to make difficult decisions. Yes, we will have to go for charging and the rest of it. Anybody who has driven on the motorway network in the rest of our nation and has pulled in and seen 20 or 30 Tesla or other charging points knows that it is doable. It can be done. We have to do it. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you have the commitment of the Ulster Unionist Party. We will be behind you when you make those changes. All that we need is the courage to go ahead and do it. Rather than talking about it, let us do it.”
“While we are at it, Northern Ireland is uniquely placed to be a centre for sustainable aviation fuel not just for the domestic market but for the transatlantic market. That would give us the opportunity to be market leaders and to be leaders as we push towards decarbonisation. <BR /> <BR />I think that everybody in the Assembly agrees that the most important piece that we need to get to is to have a fit-for-purpose EV charging network across Northern Ireland. However, that needs to be part of a major move towards the decarbonisation of what we have. We have opportunities here. We see what is happening across the rest of our nation. We should grasp those opportunities. Sir Peter Hendy talks in his report about having the ability to tap into funding and resources. We should do that as well.”
“I thank the Member for his remarks. He could have just stopped at "planning". We do not need to talk about green hydrogen because we have real, significant issues with our planning system across Northern Ireland. It is an impediment to getting our economy going again, and it needs to be looked at urgently. <BR /> <BR />Green hydrogen gives us a great opportunity. We have talked an awful lot about the decarbonisation of our whole network, but one of the most significant things that we could do is use Belfast and Larne ports as centres for hydrogen bunkering for shipping. In the Baltic, we have seen a push towards zero-emission shipping. We should push for the same thing across the Irish Sea. We should use Belfast and Larne as hubs to do that. We should also incentivise the shipping industry to move to the use of hydrogen to do it.”