Steve Aiken
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, as well as the move to reduce the cost to the Assembly of vacant non-domestic properties and to increase liability so that we will not have so many vacant properties, you will be aware of the Dilapidation Bill and of the conversations that have been taking place in Wales and Scotland about…”
“Instead, that most dysfunctional Department, under the most inept Sinn Féin Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly and a series of grossly over-superannuated permanent secretaries, gave the money back.”
“We know that her Department spends more on legal cases, fighting judicial reviews and being chastised by judges for legal ineptitude and on vesting land and ripping out hedges and fencing and then trying to unvest it and paying even more money to put back the fences and hedges that it took out.”
“We can hardly blame the current permanent secretary, as she has just taken up her post, but, surely, her predecessors must bear some accountability or responsibility, especially considering the senior civil servants' salary scale of between £146,000 and £163,000, with, of course, their taxpayer-funded pension contribution of 34·2% — £218,…”
“It must be said that £181·3 million is a lot of taxpayers' hard-earned money. It is money that is raised from local commuters, vehicle owners, farmers, local businesses, logistics companies and, above all, our constituents — those vital people whom we are elected to represent.”
“The Minister will be aware that, under the public appointments guide published by the Executive Office, it is clear that she is supposed to take independent advice before appointing board members. What independent advice did she receive, particularly about the board members selected?”
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“Can anyone tell me what that is going to be like? No.”
“The best way to achieve that is to make sure that our traders, our businesses and our companies are able to understand what is going to happen on 1 January next year. That, Mr Principal Speaker, is what we as an Assembly should be debating, because the Executive Office is not bringing those things to us. We should be the ones who are now saying to everybody in the United Kingdom, Europe and the rest of the world, "Stop using Northern Ireland as a political football". <BR /> <BR />Let us do what is appropriate and what is right for Northern Ireland. Can any Member in this Assembly say that we will be better off on 1 January next year? No. Can anyone tell me, at our Tesco and ASDA stores and everywhere else, what the impact will be on the shopping basket of the consumer in Northern Ireland, all of whom are our voters, by the way?”
“We need to understand what the role of the European Court of Justice will be because that will be a fundamental issue. <BR /> <BR />Mr Principal Speaker, what we should be doing as an Assembly and what we can do through the Chairs of all the Committees is to come together, through you, and write, as Chairs, to the First Minister and deputy First Minister in the Executive Office and to Mr Gove and Mr Barnier. As Chair of the Finance Committee, I will ask the Committee about this issue tomorrow. We will ask them to please stop using Northern Ireland as a political football. They have said right from the beginning that the single most important thing is the Belfast Agreement. The single most important thing is maintaining peace and security in Northern Ireland, and the best way to achieve that is to remove uncertainty.”
“That is not something that I think is conducive or helpful for the people of Northern Ireland, particularly the consumers of Northern Ireland, who will be faced with some really significant choices in a very short period of time. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party has a proposal for you, Mr Principal Speaker, the Members of the Assembly and its political parties that we as an Assembly write to both Mr Gove and Mr Barnier and say to them that we have real, significant concerns about Northern Ireland being used as a political football. We have 100 days before we have to have in position things that will prevent our goods from being stopped in coming across from our own country. We are going to have to be in a position where we will have to understand what the implications of state aid rules will be.”
“I thank my friend from South Belfast and, indeed, my friend from the Finance Committee for tabling this motion, although, unfortunately, we will not be supporting it. The reason why we will not be supporting this motion is that we have a fundamental issue today that is being discussed, 100 days out, in London between Mr Gove and Mr Barnier. The discussion is an informal discussion about how we are going to resolve the problems that we have currently. <BR /> <BR />Many people have listened to the sterility of this debate over a considerable period of time, when, to many ears on this side of the House and, indeed, in my constituency, it sounds like Boris-bashing turning into Brit-bashing.”
“This is a point that has already been raised by the Member for East Londonderry; I had to get that right. I notice that the First Minister and deputy First Minister made themselves available to the media — one in the Great Hall and one outside the Building — less than two hours ago. Does the Minister agree that the Executive Office has been failing in its duty to provide messaging and communications appropriately to the Assembly and that, in some respects, bearing in mind that they have two junior Ministers, they are being disrespectful?”
“We need to tell the people out there who think that they can flout the rules and think that, somehow, they are immune from COVID that they cannot and are not. I say again: if they are capable of going into an off-licence and buying beer and then joining with other people, they are more than capable of reading the government regulations. For once, they should stop putting themselves first and instead put the people of Northern Ireland first, which is what our Health Minister has done.”
“What is confusing for the elderly people — many of us have elderly relatives — who are going to have to shield again and are raising concerns? Why can people who seem to be bright enough to be selected to go to university in Northern Ireland not understand even the basics of keeping socially distanced? Why is that the responsibility of the Health Minister and some other politicians? Why is that not the responsibility of the individual, who is bright enough to pass GCSEs, AS levels and A levels and get to university but cannot even be bothered to read a government website? <BR /> <BR />We, as politicians, have a responsibility to make sure that our message is clear and that there is no confusion. Above all, we have a responsibility to show leadership.”
“They give it to the busiest person and the hardest-working Minister in the entire Executive: the Health Minister. I know that he is well up for the job, but that is not what should be done. If the two junior Ministers are not capable of doing it, maybe we should do a bit of saving, take their money — I think that their combined salaries are £110,000 a year, plus a bit of pension money — and use it for something more appropriate, such as supporting our health workers. If the Executive Office is unable to deliver, what is going on? <BR /> <BR />I appeal to every political party that has Ministers sitting round the Executive table: get together, get out there and get the message out there. Everybody is sniping about bits being confusing. What is confusing for the people who will, very shortly, go to ICU and have tubes put down their throat?”
“Although we, in the Ulster Unionist Party, would quite like to go back to running Northern Ireland again, I am pretty certain that everybody else in the Assembly wants to see all political parties working together to make the situation work. Everything seems to be headed in the direction of the Health Minister, but the reality is that this is the responsibility of the Executive Office. If it were not the responsibility of the Executive Office, why did the First Minister and deputy First Minister decide to make sound bites yesterday and present press conferences? Why did they appear in the media? It seems that, if there is a situation that they want to gain something from, they take their opportunity. If there is something that is difficult or fundamentally unpopular, who do they give it to?”
“We have seen a deputy First Minister — I am not going to go on about this, but it must be said — fundamentally undermine the message that we need to get across about following rules and regulations. There is one job for a leader, and that is to lead, but there has been a massive failure in leadership. <BR /> <BR />The Executive Office, which has two First Ministers in the First Minister and deputy First Minister and two junior Ministers, seems to be incapable of doing even the most basic administration to bring these issues to the House for us to debate. Every issue that has "health" in it seems to reside purely with the Health Minister. Those of us who have heard debates in here since we came back in September know that everything seems to be the Health Minister's responsibility.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we go back to the Belfast Agreement, when we decided to re-establish democracy and devolution here in Northern Ireland, we see that we are supposed to be allowing the people of Northern Ireland, through the Assembly and the Executive, to take responsibility for their life where they have to. One of the most significant issues that we have had to deal with is COVID. The health of our people is the most important thing that we all have to realise and support. A fully joined-up approach needs to be taken to the health of our people, and that means a joined-up approach across all the Ministries. When we were talking about the Holylands yesterday, we heard a Justice Minister decide that she was not accountable or responsible for anything.”
“The implications for everybody in Northern Ireland are huge. There are implications for those many small businesses and self-employed entrepreneurs who have no access to the £53-odd million that the Economy Minister handed back to the Finance Minister and for those in schools who cannot understand from one day to the next what the particular rules and regulations are going to be and how they will follow them. There is confusion out there, and there is confusion because we are dealing with a situation that none of us has had to deal with before.”
“I rise, of course, to support our Minister, because he has one of the most difficult jobs anywhere across these islands. Everybody can agree that he has been exemplary in how he has carried out his duties. <BR /> <BR />Let us go back nine months. Nine months ago, at the beginning of this year, nobody, apart from a few people in China, knew that COVID was on its way or of the implications that it would have. COVID is a pandemic. It is a completely unexpected event. It is an event that had the potential to significantly disrupt the global system, stop globalisation and create enormous health issues. Every single one of those things has come to pass. <BR /> <BR />The efforts that have been made and that need to be made to enable us to deal with this have been complex, because nobody has had to deal with something like this in over a century.”
“Thank you very much, Minister, for coming to speak to us this evening. You have outlined a plethora of responses to do with the Holylands issue. You yourself have shown a considerable amount of knowledge of the issues that have been affecting the Holylands for a very long time. What we all think that this needs is senior leadership, a ministerial direction and somebody with your experience to take personal charge of this. Will you commit to getting it moving and taking charge of the issue yourself?”
“I thank the Member very much for giving way. When talking about the breaching of international law, the most disappointing thing about the United Kingdom Government planning to do so is that it would take them down to the same level as the European Union and exactly the same level as the United States. The United Kingdom has a much higher standard to adhere to.”
“Is the Member aware that one of the people from the United States who have been calling for these arrangements, Representative Peter King, not only said that he supports the breaking of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) but wants walls and reinforcement of the border with Mexico and, I understand, Canada as well? How can that case be quoted as an example?”
“We should be doing that in such a manner that raises the appropriate issues for the people of Northern Ireland, namely what is going to happen to us on 1 January 2021?”
“That is something that we, as an Assembly, should be concentrating on; we should not be looking at motions like this, which do not really ask specific questions. I must admit that I found it really surprising that the Member for Foyle mentioned checks on fertilisers going back and forth across the border. Anybody who is even remotely aware of what the circumstances were would know that, of course, there had to be checks on fertiliser because most of it was not being used for the appropriate purpose. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that anybody would believe that this motion is balanced. We need to be asking questions both of the United Kingdom Government and the European Union. We should all be asking those questions together.”
“We have heard Michel Barnier and Simon Coveney say that that is a ridiculous statement. However, when given the opportunity in the Joint Committee to say that that will not be the case, guess what? They said nothing. <BR /> <BR />For the people of Northern Ireland — for our electorate, and for the consumers we all are — we need to get some degree of clarity about what is going on. That should be the issue in front of the House. That should be the issue for all of us. That is the question that we should be asking. We should be asking Boris Johnson. I am no friend of his. There are lots of questions to be asked of the political parties in the House that decided on 3 October last year that tariff and regulation boundaries down the middle of the Irish Sea were a good idea. The question facing us is about what is going to happen on 1 January.”
“No, not just at the moment. I will give way in a moment. <BR /> <BR />The key question for us, as Members of the Assembly, is this: what does it mean for the people of Northern Ireland when we look at issues in the future such as state aid rules, the role of the European Court of Justice, and how the Assembly will legislate for issues that apply directly to the people of Northern Ireland whilst at the same time dealing with the considerable number of issues that will be brought about by North/South and east-west borders being built? <BR /> <BR />The really significant issue that we have to deal with is the fact that time is running out. Come 1 January, we could be in a position where, despite what Simon Coveney says, food coming from the rest of our nation is deemed to be unacceptable.”
“<BR /> <BR />In my previous role as chief executive of the British Irish Chamber of Commerce, I was fully cognisant of the importance of the €1 billion, or £1 billion — there is not a lot of difference today — of trade that went back and forth across the Irish Sea every single week. That trade — North/South and east-west — is a circular trade. The very implication of putting a border down the Irish Sea, which many people seem to profess to do without realising the implications on trade for everybody, including businesses across these islands, has to be considered.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party will not support this one-sided motion. <BR /> <BR />It should come as no surprise to Members that neither Boris Johnson nor the European Union seem to have the interests of the people of Northern Ireland at heart. Anybody who has kept a close eye on the current negotiations between the United Kingdom and the European Union will have heard numerous pronouncements about putting the people of Northern Ireland and the Belfast Agreement to the fore, and they will wonder whether some people will bother to read that document. Some of them should consider the implications of putting a border down the middle of the Irish Sea for the whole of Northern Ireland and these islands.”
“Can the Minister tell the Assembly whether anyone in her Department had briefed the System Operator for Northern Ireland (SONI)/EirGrid or the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment before the Assembly, any MLAs or Committees were informed?”
“Bearing in mind that it is eight months since New Decade, New Approach, we are having significant issues with getting details of budgets, what is happening with money supplies, what is happening in Departments and the fact that we do not yet have an economic plan — at least one that Members of the Assembly have had sight of — to get us out of COVID, will the Minister expedite the formation of the fiscal council so that not only are we able to, hand in glove, bring in an economic plan to get us out of COVID but be in a position to look at it and monitor it carefully to make sure that it is affordable and deliverable?”
“Thank you very much. It comes as no surprise that I think that every Member should support the motion. My final appeal to the Minister is, "Show some leadership. Sort out your Department, and do something for the entrepreneurs of Northern Ireland".”
“One of the most disappointing things is the number of times that people have been told, "the computer says no. The fact is that you do not meet this criterion or that one". We are coming to the end of the time, and I could continue pointing out the inconsistencies of the Department for the Economy and the Minister.”
“I thank you very much for that. <BR /> <BR />Here is a question, and it is a question that everybody in the Assembly should ask: is the Department for the Economy fit for purpose? Is it capable of carrying out its role? Now, we have heard evidence from the Economy Committee about the language being used by the permanent secretary, but we see something else here, and this is the fundamental bit: where is that support for our SME sector? Where is that support for our entrepreneurial sector? Does nobody in the Department for the Economy or the Minister understand what our economy is built on? I am not hearing any understanding from the Minister. I have heard absolutely no —.”
“That is not what the people of Northern Ireland want to hear. <BR /> <BR />I was very disappointed to hear from the Minister today. I thought that the Minister would see where the concerns are. I thought that she would come to the House and say, "These are substantial issues that need to be sorted out. I have heard. I want to do something. I want to do something for 99% of our economy". That is the size of our SME economy.”
“I thank you very much. Again, one of the things that we have heard through here is that we want to see some leadership. We have had eight months of committees, groups, papers and whatever: we need to see some leadership. We need to see somebody saying, "We need to do this". We do not want a Minister who gives £53 million back without asking some fairly substantial questions about what extra resources are needed and what we are doing to sort out this part of the economy. We are hearing this in the United Kingdom, from a Minister who sees clearly what happens in England, Scotland and Wales but sees Northern Ireland as different in some way. Her answer is not righteous indignation and a demand for more money to do it; her answer is, "Let us form another committee. Let's send another paper".”
“Thank you very much for your intervention. That takes me on to the next point, which is about the culture in the Department for the Economy and the culture of what we are trying to do to support small businesses and entrepreneurs. They are asking for our help. They are not asking for our help because they just want another handout or they want to do something else; they want our help so that they are actually still here when we get to the end of this year.”
“Thank you very much for your intervention. <BR /> <BR />I was struck by the remarks that the permanent secretary of the Department for the Economy made to the Committee. I find it extraordinary that even a sentiment by a senior civil servant in Northern Ireland would be that some of those businesses are not worth saving. For somebody who is on a superannuated salary, has a pension and is the permanent secretary of a Department that, to say the least, has not had a stellar record in promoting jobs or in good governance to say that is absolutely shocking. The Minister should go back today and have the permanent secretary in her office and ask him to apologise and to make sure that his remarks are changed. That sent a message out to every entrepreneur in Northern Ireland. We have another example.”
“That should not come as a surprise to anybody, particularly the Minister for the Economy or her Department. That ecosystem has been growing steadily, not because of what the Department for the Economy and Economy Ministers have done but because those people have had to do it on their own. They have succeeded in ways that very few people have seen. However, right now, because of a system that they have no control over, with the added implications of a pandemic, that ecosystem is being killed off. <BR /> <BR />We hear about papers and proposals and bids, but we are eight months into this process. Many of those people have already gone to the wall. How many times have MLAs listened to people saying that they have gone to the bank and the bank says, "Unless you get support we are going to have to pull the plug"?”
“<BR /> <BR />We have heard from people across Northern Ireland about the importance of the manufacturing sector — small companies with directors who take risks. One of the biggest issues that we have in Northern Ireland is that we need to encourage more of that risk-taking. We need to encourage companies and people to become involved in business. We have a manufacturing sector in west Tyrone that is unique across these islands in its ability to develop new ideas and products. We have people in our creative industries sector who have ideas and are willing to take risks and do something that, quite frankly, was not even there nine months ago. These are people who are willing to do those things. <BR /> <BR />These are people who are the future of Northern Ireland and who are going to transform our economy.”
“I thank everybody who was involved in the debate. I am sure that Members will grant me the indulgence of directing most of my remarks to the Minister for the Economy <BR /> <BR />There is a fundamental issue here. The Northern Ireland economy is driven by the small and medium enterprise sector. It is an entrepreneurial economy. In January of this year, the Ulster University business school said that Northern Ireland has created an ecosystem for entrepreneurs, with 100,000-odd SME companies. We have more SME companies and entrepreneurs in Northern Ireland than there are per capita in Wales, Scotland and the north of England, but we can say that we had that ecosystem that was supportive of our entrepreneurial sector.”
“Thank you very much for giving way. Will the Member confirm that all in his party are fully supportive of the measures that the Executive are taking to prevent the spread of COVID-19?”
“I thank the First Minister for handling the intervention as well but my supplementary is this: bearing in mind the remarks of the East Antrim MP, would she care to comment on the remarks of her deputy First Minister in not giving an apology to the people of Northern Ireland for the events of 30 June, which considerably undermined the health message for everybody who is trying to deal with COVID?”
“I thank the First Minister for her answers. I note that she very clearly used the words "best endeavours". Will the First Minister discuss with the Executive how to make sure that both the EU and the British Government, through the Joint Committee, make a very clear statement, very soon, about the implications for our food, state aid rules and, above all, the very onerous position the Assembly may be placed in at the beginning of next year under the jurisdiction of the ECJ?”
“I will keep my remarks short. As an MLA for South Antrim, I know that many of my constituents have family members who are either patients or staff at Muckamore Abbey. The staff and patients at Muckamore, and their families, have been very badly let down by a lack of responsibility and accountability and by the lack of oversight that should have been the basic function of the Belfast Trust. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party will support the motion and the amendment, but we need to see action. Indeed, patients and staff at Muckamore Abbey need to see some restoration of trust for the sake of their future. That restoration can come through the leadership of our Health Minister, who has been doing a sterling job so far.”
“Thank you very much for your remarks. I would like the Minister to engage closely with the Minister of Education so that a list is made available of the facilities that have been supported by her Department and the Executive over the past couple of years and they are available for schools. Regrettably, we may be heading for another COVID spike, and anything that we can do to keep the maximum number of children in education would be much appreciated.”
“Will the Minister undertake a review of the practice of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, which, I understand from constituency work just today, seems to allocate only 20 points for domestic abuse issues. That figure is far too low, so I would like the Minister to make a commitment that that will be reviewed by the Housing Executive.”
“Does the Minister have any details of the goods and products that can avail of the free Trader Support Service? Can he publish a regular updated list and information?”
“Thank you very much for giving way and thank you very much for highlighting the importance of local companies in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />There is a significant issue about digital taxation and digital taxation legislation that is being brought in by the EU. Do you and your party support the digital taxation legislation that is coming from the EU or would you rather that we have a more bespoke, equal and level playing field approach across the rest of the United Kingdom on the issue, bearing in mind the importance to jobs?”
“There seems to be a degree of confusion, because, given the remarks that the First Minister made on Sky News, I think on Friday, she seemed to be of the opinion that we should be following what the protocol says. Can the honourable Member clarify, please?”
“Will the honourable Member take an intervention?”
“Thank you very much indeed. I think that the Member would also like to acknowledge the fact that one of the biggest agricultural markets for agricultural goods from the Irish Republic is the United Kingdom market. Anything that is put in that creates an Irish Sea border will, in fact, impinge on them significantly and really affect small and medium-sized farms throughout the island of Ireland.”
“In winding up, I want to say, "Minister, we need a plan; we knew that this was coming". The Executive need to gather together to do that. One of the few things that all of us who sat through the tortuous New Decade, New Approach discussions could agree on was that we needed a plan for Brexit and what we were going to do after it. We are well beyond that time. Somebody needs to take leadership. Just as our Health Minister has been the only person willing to take leadership for health, you, Economy Minister, now have the opportunity to take some leadership on this process. We ask you, urgently, to take some leadership on the issue.”
“It says that, even though there will be reforms to the United Kingdom's energy market, they will not apply to Northern Ireland and we should not even consider that because we will follow the rules from the EU without any say. I cannot see any Members of the Assembly willingly going for that and for that process of non-democratic accountability. We need to be able to address that.”
“We have heard many times about the likely implications of this for the Belfast Agreement. The Belfast Agreement is about the principle of consent. I have read the Belfast Agreement more times than many people have, and I cannot see anywhere in it anything about a border down the middle of the Irish Sea. I cannot see anything that says, "We're going to be in a position where the EU or, indeed, a special committee to a Joint Committee sets the laws that we have in Northern Ireland". Indeed, yesterday, the Minister produced a document that has been out for consultation on the energy market and electricity in Northern Ireland.”
“Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />I must admit that I find it ironic that a Member from the party opposite who talks about wanting an all-island approach points out the fact that one of the main reasons that the likes of Microsoft and Apple go to the Irish Republic is for the tax breaks and their ability to work out the tax system. It would be excellent if they ever paid 12% corporation tax, but most of them only pay about 0·12% corporation tax. That argument is probably not even moot, and I do not think that we should take it much further than that. <BR /> <BR />There are real issues. I talked about the trader support system. I talked about the issues with trying to find about what is happening on VAT and the implications of that when we come through this.”