Steve Aiken
South Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, as well as the move to reduce the cost to the Assembly of vacant non-domestic properties and to increase liability so that we will not have so many vacant properties, you will be aware of the Dilapidation Bill and of the conversations that have been taking place in Wales and Scotland about…”
“Instead, that most dysfunctional Department, under the most inept Sinn Féin Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly and a series of grossly over-superannuated permanent secretaries, gave the money back.”
“We know that her Department spends more on legal cases, fighting judicial reviews and being chastised by judges for legal ineptitude and on vesting land and ripping out hedges and fencing and then trying to unvest it and paying even more money to put back the fences and hedges that it took out.”
“We can hardly blame the current permanent secretary, as she has just taken up her post, but, surely, her predecessors must bear some accountability or responsibility, especially considering the senior civil servants' salary scale of between £146,000 and £163,000, with, of course, their taxpayer-funded pension contribution of 34·2% — £218,…”
“It must be said that £181·3 million is a lot of taxpayers' hard-earned money. It is money that is raised from local commuters, vehicle owners, farmers, local businesses, logistics companies and, above all, our constituents — those vital people whom we are elected to represent.”
“The Minister will be aware that, under the public appointments guide published by the Executive Office, it is clear that she is supposed to take independent advice before appointing board members. What independent advice did she receive, particularly about the board members selected?”
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“<BR /> <BR />I cannot see how, in good conscience, in any way, our party will be able to support the motion tonight. There is absolutely no way. When people talk about this being a disastrous failure of the process, what is the point of having democratic accountability, scrutiny or anything if we do not even get the basics right in the first place? I could go on, but it has been quite a long day and rather tedious. That will not change what I have to say. This has been an absolute disaster, and somebody, somehow, needs to grasp it and make sure that it does not happen again.”
“An applicability motion was brought about when the Windsor framework came before the House. We voted against it, and that was promptly ignored by the Secretary of State. The Stormont brake is another mechanism that was supposedly designed to act as some form of democratic accountability and scrutiny. Again, the Secretary of State swiftly ignored that. The LCM process is supposed to be part of the devolution process, and we have seen the Senedd and the Scottish Parliament deal with those issues in ample time. However, we have not, because we had not been informed. It is very easy to blame perfidious Albion — most times we do — but the fact that it has been sitting in our in tray since October makes it a bit difficult for us to start to complain about everybody else because we are not able to do this.”
“However, the reality is that he should not have been the one doing that, because the situation should never have happened. Minister, we need to work out why, in the LCM process, you were not informed; or, if you were informed, at what stage did somebody say, "This process isn't working"? You have already heard what the Speaker has said and has told Ministers, the Executive and the rest. The amount of information that is supposed to be coming before us is not adequate, and the way that the House is kept informed is not adequate. <BR /> <BR />There are other issues with this that, I think, are quite disquieting. There are supposed to be various checks, balances and controls in a devolved Assembly. We have seen three of them fail with remarkable rapidity here. The first one concerns applicability motions.”
“Lots of questions were being asked about article 2(1) of the Windsor framework and the adequacy of that, and that went back and forth. All of that was going on for three and a half to four months. At what stage were we as a Committee informed of that? We were not, but it was open knowledge in the Department in dealing with the Executive and in Departments in London. We had not been informed about it. <BR /> <BR />Minister, one of the things that I want you to address is that, at some stage, there must have been a checklist of LCMs that your Department was dealing with. We were quite pleased that Neil Gibson came before the Committee. Of all the senior civil servants whom I have ever encountered at Committee, Neil is probably the most honest and open one, and he took full responsibility and accountability for what went wrong.”
“<BR /> <BR />Together, all those issues should have shown that there should have been suitable scrutiny in the Northern Ireland Assembly. When did our officials first know about the legislative consent memorandum, and when did it arrive in our system to be looked at? It arrived in October last year. Those of us who are members of the Finance Committee can be quite rightly concerned about the fact that we were not informed of the process all the way through until May this year. However, if you look at correspondence between the Department and the Executive and other correspondence and communication that was going back and forth across the Irish Sea — obviously using unencrypted data at some speed to be able to do that — you will see that lots of questions were being asked.”
“It further talks about health and social care information, the importance of its encryption, its movement and spread and how it is utilised. It also talks about privacy and electronic communications regulations (PECR) changes. Some people might not understand those, but, basically, those changes bring such fines up to the levels of those that are issued for potential GDPR breaches. That means that companies or people who fall foul of those rules and regulations could find themselves being fined up to half the value of their company or even more. The Act also talks about AI and copyright. Thank you very much indeed, David, for bringing that up, because AI and copyright is a significant issue. Indeed, the House of Lords was very concerned about that, and it still is.”
“Members might think that the Data (Use and Access) Act 2025 LCM is in some way a minor piece of legislation that is going through. They might consider it to be like most LCMs that we look at in that it will have no real impact or import on us. Anybody who looks quite closely at the Data (Use and Access) Act 2025 will realise otherwise, however. The Act talks about smart data, digital identity products and research provisions. It also talks about "legitimate interests", which is about defining how GDPR will work against potential schemes in the EU and the rest of world. The Act talks about the introduction of "automated decision-making" systems that are attached to AI; international transfers of data; the continuation of data; and the ability to use encrypted and unencrypted data that might pass back and forth across digital boundaries.”
“Thank you very much indeed, Minister, for your statement. It is interesting that you referred to the £52·5 million of FTC, which comes back as £51·2 million after being reclassified, that you will use as an offset. Under the Treasury's green book rules, an FTC offset can be used only as a loan, equity, derivative or debt security. It looks as though you have managed things in such a way that means that the Treasury is willing to use FTC to offset debt over a particular period. This is quite a technical question, so I do not expect an answer now, but will your Department write to the Finance Committee to explain that? It is a fundamentally different way of looking at and managing FTC.”
“Thank you very much indeed. Aside from my shock at being asked to ask question 13, I should have made a declaration of interest as having a close relationship with Larne Swimming Club. <BR /> <BR />Minister, although they have now been reopened, some swimming clubs, particularly Larne, have lost considerable revenue due to the violence. Is there any indication of whether Sport NI could give some assistance to members of staff in the clubs in particular, many of whom are on low-level contracts?”
“First, I declare an interest as the vice chair of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association working group on AI in democracy. The Welsh Government are taking the lead on utilising AI, which includes looking at Microsoft Copilot and its enhanced security issues. I ask that the Chief Scientific and Technology Adviser, Helen McCarthy, given her studies on using technology, particularly AI, to improve democracy, take the lead cross-regionally. I also ask that she look at the real challenges that the digital Irish Sea border will present for data sharing.”
“However, as was pointed out by Ms Kaja Kallas, the EU's vice-president for foreign affairs and security policy, the move towards collective security is in marked contrast to the approach of one country: Ireland. She clearly said that it had built up its prosperity while everybody else carried the defence burden. The facts speak for themselves: we are heading to 5% of GDP spend on defence by Europe while Ireland is at 0·23%. The wide-open and undefended borders to our west and south are rightly a concern not just for us but for the rest of the European Union. I cannot see how adherence to a triple-lock neutrality shows our neighbour as being a good European or even a good neighbour. Virtue signalling while others carry the burden wins no friends or influence.”
“He clearly stated that the threats, including those from Russia, mean that we now need national preparedness and that that need has never been greater. We are at our 1939 point. For our part of the United Kingdom, we will have an important part to play in aviation, space, cyber, shipbuilding and repair. We can expect several billions of new investment that will bring more jobs, rebuild industrial capacity and create new industries and opportunities. We will also have to contribute to improving food and energy security. The role of our people, as they serve in our armed forces and our reserves, will also need to be significantly enhanced. <BR /> <BR />The increased preparedness across almost 97% of Europe is to be welcomed.”
“Last week at The Hague, NATO made a historic commitment to increase defence spending to 5%. It did so in recognition of the rapidly deteriorating international environment, with no let-up in Russia's ongoing hybrid war, with near-continuous missile, drone and bombing attacks on Ukraine, and its campaign of sabotage, cyberwarfare and misinformation aimed at the West. Luckily for us, the action by Israel and the USA during the Twelve Day War has emasculated the threat from Iran to a large degree, but we live in a dangerous and uncertain world. <BR /> <BR />Last week, our national security strategy was updated. It was led by John Bew, who has considerable knowledge of the state and non-state challenges that we face.”
“So Russia has not been doing it, or China or anyone?”
“I am sorry, I will run out of time in three seconds.”
“The only reason that you want to do is that because of the Jewishness of it. That is it. That is every single reason.”
“I say this clearly: the only reason that you single out Israel is because it is Jewish.”
“All right. Let us keep going with the antisemitism, shall we?”
“Thank you. Some of us who have been at war hate it. There is nothing nice about war and urban conflicts. There is nothing nice about seeing cities being flattened. There is nothing nice about casualties. There is absolutely no way that we should be endorsing or looking at the death of women, children and non-combatants. I even feel quite guilty when we take out combatants, because I am a Christian. I feel a large degree of fear at what has happened to people across the world. <BR /> <BR />What I am more concerned about is the othering of Israel in the debate and the decision to take out one actor and put it on a platform. If that is the way that you look at Israel and what it is doing, why can you not look at other countries and the things that they are doing? What is the one thing about Israel that so gets to you? What is it?”
“What do we have here? We have a motion that completely ignores the reality on the ground in the Middle East. It does not talk about Iran. It does not talk about the conflict that has been going on for decades. It does not talk about the fact that Israel is probably the only place in the Middle East where there is a modicum of democracy.”
“No, please. <BR /> <BR />Hamas did not take any —”
“When Hamas went around raping, murdering, torturing and beheading — do you know how we know that that happened? They live-streamed it. Why did they live-stream it? They did so because they were following the same activity that was being done in Syria by ISIL and in the Lebanon. If anyone who followed that and watched those streams says to me that Hamas, in any way, was following the law of armed conflict, I just cannot understand where you are coming from. <BR /> <BR />There is another issue; one of the most fundamental issues. The motion, which is the first private Members' motion to be debated today, was tabled by people who still think that there was no alternative, because the IRA never used any laws of armed conflict: none whatsoever.”
“No. Does Hamas follow the law of armed conflict? Definitely not. When Hamas went around on 7 October”
“No, I will not. <BR /> <BR />It is under 'The Law of Armed Conflict', so one would presume that other actors in this war would have the same sort of thing. Do the Iranians follow the law of armed conflict? No. Does Hezbollah follow the law of armed conflict?”
“No. Absolutely none. 'The Law of Armed Conflict' — it would be useful for Members to have a look at that manual some time and read what is in it — is clear. It may not make for nice reading for people, but if the enemy decides to use mosques, hospitals, schools or whatever for military purposes, they can be attacked. That is not a nice thing to do — I know that; I have done it — but here is the reality: when they hide underneath those structures and fire rockets from them, they become, according to 'The Law of Armed Conflict', targets.”
“One reason why that is happening is that some of the judges, particularly the Russian one, have decided that they want to relook at the rules and what makes up the definition of "genocide". Let us make no bones about it: there is genocide. There is genocide in Nigeria. There is genocide in Sudan. There is genocide in Yemen. There was genocide in Syria. There was genocide in Myanmar. There is genocide all over the world. Have we debated a single motion in the House about real genocide and where genocide is occurring right now?”
“I made considerable notes for the debate. However, there is not much point in going through them. They were well-considered points. They spoke to points of international law, the Geneva Convention and the various rules set out under the genocide convention of 1948 and how those were measured. <BR /> <BR />One reason why I asked to make a point of order earlier was my real concern about the word "genocide" and how it was used. We have heard from Mr O'Toole. We have heard about the International Court of Justice, even though the international court did not, in fact, say that Israel had committed genocide; it said that that had not been proven. Indeed, one issue that is going through the court at the moment is whether that definition can actually be found and whether it can be looked at.”
“When the so-called flotilla was making its way towards Gaza, it left Somalis sitting in the water and created an international incident, when it should have been rescuing people? That was some form of humanitarian effort, eh?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Under Standing Order 13, I would like to make a point of order on the inclusion in the Order Paper of the private Members' motion entitled "End Israeli Impunity in Gaza". I wish you to adjudicate as to whether the motion is compatible with the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism that our Northern Ireland Assembly adopted on 27 April 2021. I believe that the motion is not compatible with the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and I respectfully wish that you judge on the motion.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise for not being in my place for question 8, and I apologise to the Minister, before she heads out.”
“To the thousands who were on the airfield looking up or on the surrounding hills, that was truly the highlight of the day. <BR /> <BR />I thank the RAF in Northern Ireland, especially Air Marshall Reynolds CB CBE DFC RAF, the air officer commanding Northern Ireland, who gave me, an ex-submariner, the most informed commentary by a helicopter pilot on air displays that anybody could have had. You have probably noticed, Mr Speaker, that I managed to get a bit of the sun as well.”
“The splendid weather was matched by the large crowds of people who thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle and meeting many of the branches of our armed services. Ards and North Down Borough Council should be warmly congratulated for how it organised the event. The support of the PSNI and other emergency services in providing traffic management and first aid was first class. There was, however, one piece of traffic management that they were not responsible for: the magnificent parachute display by the RAF Falcons display team followed by the superlative Red Arrows, which entertained most of Antrim and Carrickfergus on their way in and, as they passed Scrabo Tower, gave an extraordinary display of airmanship and precise aerobatics.”
“Today, many of our councils are marking Armed Forces Week 2025 by raising the Armed Forces Day support flag. I am very pleased to say that, this morning, the flag was raised in Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council by our mayor, Leah Kirkpatrick. While not all councils across our nation show the same respect to serving armed forces personnel and veterans or, indeed, their families, the over 100,000 members of our extended armed forces family, including veterans and their family members, across the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines, the army and the Royal Air Force, both regular and reserve, appreciate the effort that has been made. <BR /> <BR />On Saturday, I had the opportunity to attend Northern Ireland Armed Forces Day in Newtownards.”
“Minister, we are utilising financial transactions capital (FTC), which, of course, must be repaid. Was any consideration given to using funding from the National Wealth Fund or the British Business Bank, which seem to be the alternatives that HM Treasury has mentioned for infrastructure projects?”
“Thank you very much, Minister, for your remarks. I notice the £559 million of debt relief from the 2024 restoration package. Does that realign the baseline for the Budget and the Estimates this year?”
“While we in the United Kingdom come under the protective umbrella of NATO, Ireland has decided to rely on the goodwill of the mullahs and appeasing Tehran with its opposition to everything Israeli, NATO, military or both. Iran also feels that it can threaten its only supporters in Europe with impunity. The back door is open not just to criminal gangs but to everyone who sees the Republic of Ireland as an open doormat. That should be a concern to us all.”
“Members cannot be unaware of the escalation of the many-years-long conflict between Iran and Israel. They will also know that, in July 2004, when Iran's use of Hamas and Hezbollah proxies was self-evident, President Higgins conveyed his best wishes to the new Iranian president and expressed condolences on the death of his predecessor. They may not be aware that Iran's leaders — those who are still alive and who have not run away to Dubai — threatened to attack with their ballistic missiles what they call "Big Satan's little friends in Europe". Those allies, according to all sorts of things, also include the Republic of Ireland and particularly the data centres and Shannon international airport.”
“That includes the rather bizarre defence of the so-called triple lock by them, which also gives Russia, China and, believe it or not, the United Kingdom the right to veto any deployment of Irish troops. That is also equally extraordinary.”
“<BR /> <BR />On 6 June, President Higgins, at the unveiling of his portrait in Galway, took the opportunity to lambast our Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, for spending an extra £1·5 billion on defence — a sentiment that has been echoed on the Floor of the Assembly in remarks from the SDLP, Sinn Féin Ministers and others.”
“I wish to speak about a significant challenge to the safety of us all on this island, North and South. Many Members will be unaware of or know of but do not really care about the fact that the Republic of Ireland has only one offshore patrol vessel with no gun, and the Air Corps, whose main combat capability is a few turboprop training aircraft, cannot fly at weekends or in the evenings due to a shortage of air traffic controllers. Drug trafficking and people smuggling, which are on the rise, and the movement of illicit goods through the unmonitored and unprotected Irish Sea and Irish airspace are bad enough and are a direct threat to us here in the United Kingdom, but the failure of the Irish to defend their economic zone and airspace also undermines our physical security.”
“Thanks very much indeed, Minister. Apologies for not being here earlier. You just talked about the Department for Communities. One of the key issues in one of last week's debates was the reclassification of the Housing Executive and the ability to do that. Has the Minister had any insight into whether that will be allowed? Indeed, will that be part of his statement next Monday?”
“I again ask the Minister to look closely at that and to engage with Departments on how we can start to plan and profile those moneys over the next three years so that, as many Members said, we can get good value for money.”
“2) Bill and the speed at which we do the monitoring rounds, how quickly will we be able to look at getting anything that comes from the CSR, which is likely to come through on Wednesday? How quickly before the Assembly breaks up for the summer, Minister, can you come here to explain to Members or, indeed, to Departments how those moneys are likely to be allocated so that we can look to the autumn and do some decent long-term planning? <BR /> <BR />If anything in the media is to be believed, the spending review will probably look at spending that will be spread out over the next three years of the budgetary review process.”
“There is something that, I think, is important, Minister, and you could maybe comment on it in your closing remarks. I do not expect you to say anything about the CSR, because we will wait to hear what Rachel Reeves says. However, we can note today that she has mentioned the issues with the winter fuel allowance and the fact that she has walked back on that. From that, it can only be surmised that she will walk back on several other issues. Even though some Members have talked about the Labour Government's approach to continuing austerity, there seems to be a general shift away from that direction. The question that I would like the Minister to address is this: bearing in mind the constraints of the Budget (No.”
“There will be very many questions about capital allocations, particularly to capital projects. Speculation is already beginning over a particular capital project in the sporting field. That seems to be developing at the moment.”
“It is very clear that there are challenges everywhere, but it would be remiss of me not to point out that the Department of Health is looking at how to deal with a challenge of close to £600 million.”
“I apologise for not being here for the entirety of the debate. Unfortunately, we had to attend the funeral of a very dear member of the Ulster Unionist Party, Pamela Stewart. I think that every member of our party, and the many people who knew her, will pass on their condolences to the family at this very sad time. <BR /> <BR />Minister, I am glad that the Member behind you talked about the fact that the comprehensive spending review announcement is coming this week. We are talking about the Budget (No. 2) Bill, but we know that there may be some extra allocations coming in our direction in a short time. We also know, however, that those extra allocations are highly unlikely to meet the various challenges that we have across all the Departments. We have already heard from the Chairs of Statutory Committees.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. For clarification, is the Treasury pushing back against reclassification?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. My intervention relates particularly to the Department for the Economy and is something that I raised in previous remarks. Bearing in mind the fact that its accounts were disclaimed, do you not think that the Department's accounting officer should be making sure that there is a proper presentation of information to the Committee to enable it to do its job?”
“There should be significantly more scrutiny on the funding of any Department in that position. <BR /> <BR />I will bring my remarks to a close shortly. Given the issues that we have, we need to be able not only to shape the funding available but to ensure that is it spent effectively and efficiently and there is accountability for how it is spent. That may mean asking some extremely hard questions of our officials, such as questions about where delivery and accountability actually lies. We are accountable to the people of Northern Ireland. If we do not do what we are supposed to, we are out. The same question should be asked of the Civil Service.”