Linda Dillon
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“It is important to have that acknowledgement for the sake of history — so that the generations who come after us will understand what happened to you and what you went through. It is also important for our present and future: we must make sure that what happened to those women, girls and children never happens again.”
“I begin by offering the apologies of my colleague Carál Ní Chuilín, who cannot be here today owing to ill health. Carál has been very much invested in the work on the legislation. The Bill is very important to her, given the work that she does in the Assembly and the people with whom she has personally worked and engaged over many years.”
“My colleague Áine is the Member who probably comes closest to having a true understanding of what you have had to live with and endure, and continue to live with and endure, because it has affected, and will affect, you all your life, and we know that those effects are transgenerational. I acknowledge that.”
“We can never allow that to happen. <BR /> <BR />You showed bravery by speaking up. You spoke up, yes, so that people would know what had happened to you, but you also spoke up so that it would not happen to others.”
“Some lived to see the beginning of the campaign but not the Bill getting to this stage. Many did not even see the beginning of the campaign and did not believe that, in their lifetime — or anyone else's lifetime, for that matter — there would be an acknowledgement of what happened to them.”
“I apologise for not being in the House from the beginning of the statement and thank you for your latitude on that. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister. You have outlined some of the benefits that Waterways Ireland ownership can bring to waterways and local communities.”
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“I am quite sure that a number of Members in the Chamber have personal experience of that. My extended family have personal experience of it. There can never be any —”
“I apologise if my name was not on the list; I thought that it was. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for taking forward this private Member's Bill. It is extremely important. I know that the Member met a number of victims and survivors and, as I did, very much listened to what they want and need. I appreciate that the amendments that we tabled have been incorporated into the Bill. That is vital. Everything that we put forward was about the victims and survivors. It all came from their mouths, and their representatives and advocates. That is why we wanted to ensure that it is in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right: we can never overestimate the importance of having access to your records and knowing who you were, because who you were is who you are.”
“I thank the Member for taking my intervention. Does he agree that, as we were advised in the Justice Committee when I was on it, not having the reasonableness excuse does not prevent a judge from looking at the particular circumstances of an individual case?”
“Does the Member agree that, as I have already said, all the other pieces of legislation that we have taken through the House around protecting women, particularly the domestic abuse Bill, the stalking Bill and other pieces of legislation to protect women, affect some of the most vulnerable women in our society in some of the most vulnerable and harrowing circumstances of their entire life. We need to protect them, and reasonableness must be removed as an excuse.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. Does he agree that that is not in line with previous legislation that is about protecting women, such as the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act 2021? The reasonableness argument is not an argument of defence.”
“It is not value for money where you are not connecting all houses on one lane or one road or where there is one house at the end of a road that is being left out of the project.”
“On a point of clarity, I think that the Minister, when he responded to my colleague, said that the DUP funded this: I am fairly certain that it was the National Insurance and tax payers who funded it, as is the case with any subsidised project. People are paying for this already, and then they have to pay doubly for it. For some of my constituents, I question the value for money when people who live on one side of a lane have access to broadband through Project Stratum while, on the other side of the same lane, other people do not. This is happening across Mid Ulster, and I am certain that it affects constituents of Members across the House. Will the Minister please respond on how he will address that issue?”
“We have an absolute responsibility to protect children in conflict, and, in this conflict, we owe that to them.”
“I want to speak about the impact of the situation on the children. We have heard much about the politics of the issue, but children, as always in conflicts across the world, are the ones who are most vulnerable and will suffer the most. We heard UNICEF say this morning that over seven million children will suffer as a result of this aggressive act. I ask everybody who is in a position to do so to support UNICEF and the aid that is trying to give to ensure that those children are protected. Children are the most vulnerable, and they are even more vulnerable when they are on the move. As we heard this morning, over half a million families are on the move. As an Assembly and across the Western World, we must give any support and assistance that we can to ensure the protection of the children who will be made very vulnerable at this time.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, given that we do not have an Executive, as a result of the DUP withdrawing from the Executive, is there a real risk of underspend? Following on from what you said about health services, most of us in the Chamber are in the same position in that we have been impacted on in some way or another by the loss of someone or by someone becoming seriously ill as a result of cancer. You just outlined that the cancer strategy is at real risk. Is there a real risk of money being returned to the Treasury?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I appreciate that there are a high number of apprenticeships in Mid Ulster, which is testament to the work that has been done by the engineering industry in my constituency of Mid Ulster. However, every engineering company that I have met is still crying out for people with the required skills, even to the point that one business that I met had someone who had taught themselves how to use a machine via YouTube. We need to look at having a centre of excellence for engineering apprenticeships in Mid Ulster. Companies will be more than happy to work with the Department to deliver that.”
“When we leave here today, we all need to remember that we have a responsibility to come back to the legislation time and again and to keep the promises that we made during the legislative process, particularly during the Committee Stage, when we spoke to victims who have suffered from this terrible crime and to their advocates and the groups and organisations that support them. <BR /> <BR />I welcome what is happening today. I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill to its Final Stage and thank the Committee for all of the hard work that it has done.”
“I promised people whom I met during the passage of the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act and during the Justice Committee's scrutiny of this Bill that I would continue to keep a close eye on the legislation, and I meant that. For as long as I am elected, I will absolutely keep an eye on it, and I made a promise that whoever comes behind me will do the same. We, as legislators, need to ensure that we do not think that our work is done when a Bill passes its Final Stage. It is far from being done; it is only beginning. <BR /> <BR />As others have said, we need to ensure that the legislation delivers and is workable on the ground, and that proper training and resources are made available. We all, as MLAs, have responsibility for that as do the Department and the Minister.”
“I associate myself with all the remarks made so far. I welcome today's Final Stage, particularly given that the laws around coercive control in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act 2021 came into force yesterday. <BR /> <BR />As has been said, stalking is an insidious crime. As other Members have said, the implementation of this law is what matters. That includes training and reviewing, by constantly looking back at whether the legislation is working and at what is and what is not working. In my role on the Policing Board, I will very much focus on the protection orders. Today is not the last day of our responsibility, as an Assembly, for this legislation; it is only the beginning.”
“I genuinely felt sad yesterday when I heard the news, and I still feel that overwhelming sadness. My thoughts are with you all. He will be missed by me, by this place but, most of all, by his family.”
“I served as Chair of the Committee on Standards and Privileges with Christopher as my Deputy Chair for a short period. He was an absolute gentleman, as he was in everything else. He was full of integrity and a pleasure to do business with. It would have been difficult to have known Christopher and not be fond of him, regardless of your political persuasion. That has been shown clearly right across the Chamber today. <BR /> <BR />I offer my sincere condolences to all his party colleagues and everyone who knew and loved him, particularly his mummy, wife and children, because the loss that they feel is unimaginable.”
“I am going to end my speech, but I agree with Mr McAleer that this is about fairness. It is about delivering for future generations. It is hopefully about delivering for this generation as well, but it is absolutely for future generations: for my children, for, hopefully, my grandchildren and for yours. That is what we are here to do. We are here to deliver. It is not about us today but about what we leave as a legacy for those in the future.”
“Thank you for the intervention. I am glad that I inspired such a heartfelt speech.”
“Absolutely. That is where the Bill presents an issue for more than just farmers in rural areas. We need an ambitious climate change Bill that addresses all the issues that our rural communities face.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention. He is right: that is exactly what we need to do. We need to be more ambitious. As I said, it particularly impacts on our rural communities. When I see ambitious transport plans, they sometimes do not include our rural communities. They talk about the towns and cities, and they forget about us. In many of our villages and towns, if people do not have a car, they have no transport links whatsoever. That is why we are in the position of asking for additional road networks and work to be done to roads. That is not acceptable. We should have better transport links. We should have the potential to get on a bus or a train to go to our place of work and not have to rely on a car.”
“I speak as somebody who left Newry one day to travel to Coalisland on a bus. It took five hours to make a 40-minute journey. That is the transport that we have in our rural areas. For one hour of that time, I sat in Newtownhamilton on a bus while the bus driver went home and we waited for another bus driver to come. That was grand, because I had time to sit there, but, in the real world, it is not acceptable.”
“For that reason, it is important that they be consulted and are very much part of the development of any action plan. We have a responsibility to protect everyone: all those who work across our community and their families. <BR /> <BR />I will refer to Mr Muir's point on the transport network in Scotland. I was able to test that network a few years ago, and Mr Muir is right: it is excellent. In the most rural areas, in the middle of nowhere, you are within a couple of minutes of a train station. Here, transport in our rural areas is like that in a developing country. <BR /> <BR />Other Members have mentioned the need for the Bill to be more ambitious. Stewart Dickson referred to the need for the Bill to be all-encompassing and holistic. That is absolutely what we need.”
“They were helping us to protect the environment in those hill areas, but they were not being supported to do so. <BR /> <BR />If we are to play our part in averting a global catastrophe, protect our local environment and protect the health and well-being of our population, net zero is the bare minimum. We have a responsibility to ensure that we deliver climate change legislation, because, when it is too late, it is too late — there will be no going back. We will not be able to turn back the clock, and our children and grandchildren will pay a very high price for our negligence. <BR /> <BR />All of it must be delivered in a fair and balanced manner that protects and supports our farming communities. They are, as has been said, the custodians of the land, and they will play a central role.”
“<BR /> <BR />If our produce comes from an area with lower environmental standards, that will be a challenge for our farmers, because who will want to trade with them? Who will want to buy their food? Very basically, as someone who goes into a shop to buy meat, I am fussy about where I buy my meat and where it comes from. I am fussy about how those animals were reared, how they were killed and how that meat was processed. <BR /> <BR />It is important to people. From my time on the AERA Committee, I know that the Minister is very keen on high productivity. It is, therefore, a wee bit disingenuous to talk about the DUP's concern for the hill farmers. There was no concern for them, because they were not producing enough to be considered worth assisting and financing.”
“That is where R&D comes into it and where it is vitally important. <BR /> <BR />I believe that net zero emissions is the bare minimum. As I said, people have been talking about this subject all my life, and nothing has been done. To go for anything less than that is just unthinkable. I have a young daughter, and I hope that she will see in her lifetime the difference that will be made by the Bill that we pass in the Assembly and by future legislation that will, hopefully, be even more ambitious. As others have said, we have all sorts of innovative projects, innovative ideas from people, changes in science and all those things that will happen to make the change easier and allow it to happen.”
“I am 45, so there has been a fair delay. I am talking about over 30 years ago. We are well past the time to deal with the issue. <BR /> <BR />R&D is really important for all sectors. There has been a lot of reference today to the farming sector. As someone from a farming family who is deeply steeped in the farming tradition, and as a representative for a massive rural and farming community and constituency, I understand very well the challenges that farmers face. I understand the challenges that they faced in recent years when Lough Neagh flooded and homes, farmlands and animals were absolutely decimated. Climate change is a massive threat to our farmers. They recognise that we need to do something, and we recognise that we need to support them so that they can deal with it. How do we help them to change how they do things?”
“I think that the Member has been reading my mind, or maybe it is because we are both from Mid Ulster, but I intended to reference the fact that we are putting our faith in a party that followed somebody who put signs that had all sorts of promises on the side of a red bus. We saw where that got us and where ignoring the true facts got us. <BR /> <BR />Members have talked during the debate about the fact that it will be a number of generations before we realise the benefits of the Bill. I remember that when I was a child, which is not that long ago, people were talking about climate change. It is a while ago, but not that long. I remember watching programmes and being a bit frightened about what it meant but not really understanding it. We talk about the fact that there have been delays in addressing climate change.”
“No. I agree with the Member for Mid Ulster Patsy McGlone about there being a pivotal role in this for our universities. My concern is how we are going to fund them. My colleague Caoimhe Archibald spoke about the fact that, in a previous life, she worked in the R&D sector and that that role was funded through European funding. I have concerns about whether that funding will be replaced, because that is where the vital work that will help our farmers happens.”
“I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill. A number of Members have alluded to the fact that there are two Climate Change Bills, and we need to recognise why there are two. The Minister had no intention of bringing forward his Climate Change Bill had Clare Bailey not brought forward a private Member's Bill. That does not remove the fact that we appreciate that the Minister has now moved to the point of bringing forward a Bill. It would have been much better if he had done so sooner so that we would not be in this position.”
“To the family waiting for that person, however, that is as important as bringing back somebody who has been saved. If there are any avenues open to those organisations, I would like to hear about them.”
“I thank the Minister for his announcement. It is certainly welcome news for Lough Neagh Rescue. As somebody who is lucky enough to live on the edge of Lough Neagh, I understand not only the beauty but the danger of it. <BR /> <BR />We have an issue in the Blackwater river, where a volunteer group performs rescues at the top end. The group works with the PSNI and does cross-border work, and it does not get funding from any source. It is Dungannon Sub Aqua Club. Can the Minister advise whether there is anywhere for it to access funding? He is right that such groups are run entirely by volunteers; they fund themselves and have to provide all their own equipment. The Minister is also 100% right that they risk their own lives when they go out, sometimes only to bring back somebody who is already dead.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and responses to questions. Brexit presents a significant threat to the future of agriculture and rural development. The North has lost access to EU funding, with potentially huge consequences for rural development and rural communities, as we have seen in mid Ulster. How will the Minister ensure that the rural policy framework integrates and complements the rural development programmes in the rest of Ireland?”
“Even in my own remit on the Policing Board, I would like to understand, when we ask for the same kind of data to be collected, how we can identify how that can be done. I would appreciate some detail on that. <BR /> <BR />Thank you to the Minister, and thank you to the Committee.”
“I began to say earlier that, if you speak to any woman who has suffered as a result of coercive control or stalking and ask, "What was the most difficult part of it?", you are told that it is the fear. It is the absolute fear. Some women for whom it ends in physical violence will tell you that the fear of what was going to happen was worse than the actual physical violence. That tells you all that you need to know about what some individuals suffer. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister again for bringing the Bill forward. I thank everyone on the Committee for their amendments. Just to speak quickly to amendment No 7, I absolutely support the intent of the Member in relation to the section 75 groups. I would like to see whether there are examples of best practice, maybe in other parts of the world, of how that can be done effectively.”
“Finances and resources will be issues for the Minister and the PSNI going forward, but, like all of us, the PSNI has to decide what its priorities are. <BR /> <BR />Just because violence against women and girls has been highlighted over the past weeks does not take away from the fact that the issue is as old as time, as I said in the Chamber yesterday. It has been going on for as long as time has existed, and we all have a responsibility to address it where we see it. Without the legislation, addressing it will not be enough. We need to ensure that those who perpetrate it are brought to justice and that the victims who have suffered know that it was stalking that happened to them, that it was wrong and that the perpetrator will be punished for what they have done to them.”
“Yes. In fairness, all of our Ministers have a huge challenge with the Budget, particularly given that we have given priority to Health. Whilst I absolutely agree with that, I certainly hope that the money that goes to Health is effective where it is needed. However, it leaves the Minister and the PSNI with a challenge, and I hope that that is prioritised. I have spoken to people in the PSNI and to those to whom the PSNI has responded, particularly since the changes that were made in Garnerville. Even the PSNI officers and trainers say that there is no comparison between the officers coming out at the other end of the training at Garnerville now and those who went before them. Additional training on the issues can only add to that and make it better. That is really important. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the Member.”
“There can be nothing more important than ensuring that what we do after we pass legislation ensures that it is effective and that it does what it says on the tin.”
“When they respond to those incidents, they need to have a full understanding not only of the offence but of how to assist the person that they are going to help and of how to assist that individual in understanding that what they have suffered is stalking and that they have the legislation in place to stop it, to bring it to court and to bring the perpetrator to justice. It is really important. There is nothing more important in relation to legislation than the training, because the legislation is worthless without it. The previous Committee worked really hard on that in the domestic abuse Bill, and I am delighted that the current Committee has given the same weight to it with this Bill.”
“As was said, some individuals will have had over 100 incidents before they report anything. Many will not report it. They may have had many incidents but still not consider themselves to be victims of stalking, because they do not truly understand what stalking is or what they are suffering. That does not take away the impact that it has on them. <BR /> <BR />We have already talked about how stalking is mainly an offence perpetrated against women by men and often ends in violence. As we all know, it can end in the death of a victim. On many occasions, those women suffer in silence. They tell nobody. They are embarrassed. They think, "What will happen? Who will believe me?", or, for some reason, they think that they have brought it on themselves. For that reason, the training of our PSNI officers is extremely important.”
“These pieces of legislation could be used in those cases, but I am concerned that the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act, in particular, has not been flagged up to those individuals. Training is important, not only for the PSNI and for those in the justice family but for the legal representatives of individuals. Of course, that will be their responsibility, but it is extremely important. It is important that that is said in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members have outlined the training for the PSNI. That is important not only because the PSNI are the first responders but because, indeed, if the PSNI do not understand the offence, you will have many occasions when a victim will not know that the offence has been committed against them. Many victims of stalking will not even know that what they are suffering is stalking.”
“I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill to the House. I will speak mainly to the amendments that deal with training. <BR /> <BR />To set it in context, we previously passed the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act. Whilst the two are different and distinctly separate pieces of legislation, there are many occasions on which their provisions may cross and impact on individuals, particularly when the perpetrator or alleged perpetrator is an ex-partner. Whilst we cannot put it into the Bill, it is extremely important that we ensure that all legal representatives are aware of both pieces of legislation and how and when they can be used. Individuals have come to my constituency office with issues of coercive control and stalking.”
“Minister, do you agree that the abuse of women and girls is as old as time, and now is the time for change? The previous Member to speak referred to mother-and-baby homes. We need to end all abuses against women, girls and their children, and we need to ensure that it is exposed for all the world to see in any upcoming inquiry.”
“If we do not fully acknowledge and address what happened, we will leave the gates open for similar abuses to happen in the future. My thoughts are with all the victims and survivors. This belongs to them — they own it.”
“Now all these victims and survivors, regardless of the institution responsible, will get the apology that they rightly deserve from the state that failed them and allowed the abuse to take place. The state was responsible for every one of those children. Regardless of where the abuse took place, the state had a responsibility to look after, care for and protect them, and it failed them. We can never take away the pain or the harm that the abuse caused, and nothing that we can do will ever give those people back the lives that they should have had, but it is right that we say sorry to them all. <BR /> <BR />Many have not lived to see this day, including my mother-in-law and her sisters, but, if nothing else, I hope that they can now rest in peace.”
“Last week, the Executive Office announced the very welcome news that an apology to victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse will be made in March this year. <BR /> <BR />I was elected to the Assembly in 2016 and became Sinn Féin spokesperson on victims just weeks before the launch of the Hart report. I will never forget attending the launch of that report and the feeling in the room that these children, who had been abused, in many different ways, now stood as adults, acknowledged and believed. The shame was given to those who own it: the institutions, those who carried out the abuse and the state. <BR /> <BR />The implementation of redress and support services has been a long and difficult road with many twists and turns.”
“Does the Member agree that the Building and the wider estate need to be welcoming spaces for all, that those spaces need to be reflective of all in our society and that we have a long way to go in order to ensure that that is the case?”
“We have just heard about the importance of a home and people being able to stay in their rural communities. It is also important for us to develop businesses in a very rural constituency — a constituency that needs all the economic investment that it can get and, most importantly, a new school build for our children. Other Members have talked today about the importance of our children and young people. It is important that they have a proper educational setting as a starting point. I call on the Minister, if she is listening today, to please look at what resource is available. I am not sure whether it is a wider issue across the North. I have not heard about it in other constituencies, but it is an issue in my constituency.”
“An issue that is causing serious problems in my constituency is DFI Roads' response to the planners. It is causing serious delays with the planning of individual homes and businesses. A particular case in my constituency, where there will be a massive investment by the council and a new school build, has been put at severe risk because of DFI Roads' failure to respond. I understand that that is due to a lack of human resource to respond to a number of planning applications. <BR /> <BR />Today, I call on the Minister to look at what resource is available and at future resource planning. This is not an issue within the Planning Service or the council. It is down to the failure of DFI Roads to respond to planning issues. It is impacting on people who are building their homes.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with what the Member has just said. Does she agree with me that many people who suffer from domestic abuse will never use that leave? However, the confidence that your employer recognises what you are going through, even if they do not know about it, is something in itself. That will give people a bit of confidence that they are not crazy, mad or wrong but that somebody else is doing wrong.”
“I thank the Minister for taking an intervention. I will make it brief. Does he recognise that there is a disparity at the minute between those who work in the public sector — the Finance Minister has acknowledged that they get domestic abuse leave — and those who work in the private sector? That is a real issue for anybody who is suffering domestic abuse.”