Linda Dillon
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“It is important to have that acknowledgement for the sake of history — so that the generations who come after us will understand what happened to you and what you went through. It is also important for our present and future: we must make sure that what happened to those women, girls and children never happens again.”
“I begin by offering the apologies of my colleague Carál Ní Chuilín, who cannot be here today owing to ill health. Carál has been very much invested in the work on the legislation. The Bill is very important to her, given the work that she does in the Assembly and the people with whom she has personally worked and engaged over many years.”
“My colleague Áine is the Member who probably comes closest to having a true understanding of what you have had to live with and endure, and continue to live with and endure, because it has affected, and will affect, you all your life, and we know that those effects are transgenerational. I acknowledge that.”
“We can never allow that to happen. <BR /> <BR />You showed bravery by speaking up. You spoke up, yes, so that people would know what had happened to you, but you also spoke up so that it would not happen to others.”
“Some lived to see the beginning of the campaign but not the Bill getting to this stage. Many did not even see the beginning of the campaign and did not believe that, in their lifetime — or anyone else's lifetime, for that matter — there would be an acknowledgement of what happened to them.”
“I apologise for not being in the House from the beginning of the statement and thank you for your latitude on that. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister. You have outlined some of the benefits that Waterways Ireland ownership can bring to waterways and local communities.”
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“The Department could do worse than to take a leaf out of Mid Ulster District Council's book on the best way in which to do that, because the council has engaged with sectors to establish how it can best support and develop the businesses. It has also engaged with the schools and further education colleges to ensure that the skills required by businesses are being developed and supported. Our MP, Francie Molloy, has led a campaign to call for an engineering centre of excellence in mid-Ulster, and that would massively —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mid Ulster District Council took a very proactive approach by engaging with all sectors in developing the economic development plan for the district. In fact, one of my very first engagements as the first chairperson of the new Mid Ulster District Council in 2015 was to launch the economic development plan. We did that here in Parliament Buildings in the Long Gallery, because we recognised the need to be part of an economic strategy coming from the Department in conjunction with all other Departments. <BR /> <BR />A healthy economy creates a healthy society with better education and life outcomes.”
“Members will not be surprised to hear that this is an issue of great concern to me. I am sure that the Minister will not be surprised either, because I have raised it on a number of occasions. I have pointed out that the engineering and manufacturing industry needs to be supported — not it alone — during this particularly difficult time, but there also needs to be a sustainable and future-proofed economic strategy across all our sectors, and it needs to happen through proper consultation and working closely with businesses. No Minister, no civil servant and no one in Invest NI has a complete understanding of what each sector requires in order to get the most out of its business, and we are strangling our economy by not engaging appropriately with those sectors.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. I would also like to see both cities doing well. However, I do not want to see Mid Ulster and everything between those two cities losing out.”
“On skills, does the Member agree that we need to encourage more women to go into the engineering and manufacturing industries?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Can he confirm that a full rural-proofing exercise was carried out? I understand what he says about the first definition and the second definition. The second definition can be ruled out, because some Departments consider anything outside Belfast as rural, which is not the case. <BR /> <BR />I invite the Minister to see an excellent example of a primary school in a rural area. If he were to visit St Mary's Primary School in Pomeroy, we would really appreciate it.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. First, can I highlight that we are no wiser as to the contingency plans? Maybe it was the Minister's generosity in taking interventions, but I am no wiser as to what the contingency plans are in the event that there is a lockdown and the tests cannot go ahead. <BR /> <BR />Will the Member agree that we have had inquiries, reports and so much information to tell us that academic selection is bad for our children that we could bury ourselves and every school in the Six Counties underneath it? We now need to take action.”
“The Minister said that the courts have resumed. However, there is obviously quite a backlog. Can the Minister give us assurance that mitigations are in place, should there be any further COVID restrictions, to ensure that the backlog is reduced and dealt with, particularly around family court cases and those that involve very vulnerable victims.”
“My supplementary has been answered in the fulsome answer that the Minister gave, thank you.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers, particularly in relation to the support services that have been put in place for victims. It is extremely important that they get the support that they need, particularly at this time when they have to go through the application process. Will the Minister update us on the work of the HIA redress board on administering the redress payments and whether any issues have arisen during that process?”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. We talk about reform of the transfer test; what about reform of the education system so that children do not think that they are being disadvantaged if they cannot go to their nearest school?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I have two points. First, I believe that some coach operators have offered up plans and solutions, and those need to be looked at. There will not be a perfect answer for everybody in the industry, and we should not wait until we have the perfect answer. We need to deliver for them and deliver for them now. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, can you give us a timeline of when they will get financial assistance? I accept that you needed the special powers, but am I not right in saying that the Finance Minister used those special powers to turn around within days financial assistance for those in Derry who came under restrictions just two weeks ago?”
“They said that they believed that they would get some financial help for COVID and that, eventually, we would come out of it but that Brexit would be a long and painful process.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. The Minister can deal only with rate-based businesses; it is the Economy Minister's responsibility to deal with the rest. If we knew what was coming forward from the Economy Department, they would know whether they will be excluding themselves. It is important that we get the information from the Economy Department on how those issues are dealt with. <BR /> <BR />I could go into the detail of many spheres that will be affected, particularly in the justice family, but we would be here all day. Everybody knows that we face serious challenges. I want to see all our Ministers working together to ensure that we face those challenges realistically. The biggest concern of the businesses that I met on Friday was about Brexit.”
“We have to acknowledge that. She needs to take responsibility. I urge you to use whatever influence you have to ensure that those sectors' needs are met.”
“I hope that he will use whatever influence he has with the Economy Minister to address that, because I have raised it numerous times in the House. Sectors that were not helped in the last lockdown have no assurances about what will happen this time. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Finance Minister for his speedy response in putting in place the grants for rateable businesses, but we have no assurances for the self-employed or for those who do not have rateable businesses. I want to see those assurances from the Economy Minister and Ministers with responsibility for other sectors. I met a number of sectors last week, including the coach industry, which has had no financial assistance either. We want to see that coming forward. That is not only for the Economy Minister, but it is the main responsibility of the Economy Minister.”
“Victims are victims: end of story. Victims deserve to be supported, but the fight is not theirs. They deserve to be paid; they do not need to wait any longer for the payments. People are dying as they wait for the payments, and we need to ensure that they get them. The British Government need to accept their responsibility and put proper resources in place. Bringing forward legislation without resources is an atrocity in itself. <BR /> <BR />As I said, there are many challenges in the justice sector. I want to raise some issues from my constituency. Over the past weekend, many businesses and self-employed people have raised issues with me. Mr Frew referred to businesses and sectors that were not supported during the previous restrictions.”
“We have just completed the Committee Stage of the Domestic Abuse and Family Proceedings Bill, which has the potential to be transformative. I say "potential" because, if it is not properly resourced and proper training is not put in place, the legislation will not be worth the paper that it is written on. It is important that the Minister looks at her priorities and works with the Committee in moving forward. We have many challenges. <BR /> <BR />One of the main concerns will be the victims' pension payment and how that will be resourced. I was happy that the Executive approached the British Government in a united way to ensure that they are held to account. This is their legislation; they brought it forward. I have many difficulties with the scheme, and I intend to challenge them. People will be excluded, and that should not happen.”
“As has been outlined by, I think, all the Members who have spoken, we are in a difficult year and in difficult times. That is not simply down to COVID. The House must recognise that we already had challenges not only Tory austerity and their approach to how they would finance any Department or any public body but the Brexit debacle. In my role as justice spokesperson, I say that there are challenges in the justice family, particularly for the PSNI and how it will police what could come our way as a result of Brexit and how it will police the current regulations and all that they bring with them. <BR /> <BR />There are many competing justice priorities, and we would love to see the delivery of all the things that are important to us. We particularly need to see the implementation of all the Gillen recommendations.”
“The European Court of Human Rights ruled unanimously that article 2 of the human rights convention, which guarantees the right to life, had been violated at Loughgall. Does the First Minister accept that the comments of her party colleague Paul Frew, on the anniversary of Loughgall, created great offence and hurt to grieving families and that everyone has a right to remember loved ones, regardless of your view of those who died in Loughgall?”
“Given the point that the Member has just made, and in relation to the Domestic Abuse Bill, is it not time for us to look at a women and girls strategy? This type of crime is one of the most degrading and inhumane that exists, and it disproportionately affects women and girls. The Executive and the Assembly need to look at a women and girls strategy.”
“I thank the Member for taking the intervention. Does he agree with me that granting leave to remain is a persistent problem, particularly for women in such circumstances? Moreover, we recognised it as an issue in our recent discussions on the Domestic Abuse Bill. There is therefore a real need to bring perpetrators to justice.”
“However, I would much prefer that the leave to remain can be indefinite if it needs to be.”
“Equally, we do not know if they are able to return to their home. If they have been taken as slaves and trafficked once, do we know that it will not happen again if they are sent back to where they came from? Do we know that the criminals who did that to them will not have access to them or their families? We are well aware that one of the biggest threats that is held over these people is, "We know where your families live". Some of them have children at home and are being told, "We know where your children are". We have to look at this in the round. I am not sure that 12 months sufficiently allows for that. I have real concerns. Many of the victims have been separated from their friends and families, whose lives have moved on. Is there a home for them to go back to? So, the 12 months is welcome and we will support the motion.”
“There are also important safeguards, including that support measures must not be conditional on the person acting as a witness in any criminal proceedings and that they must be provided in a manner that takes account of the individual needs of that person. Furthermore, importantly, the Bill provides a statutory leave to remain in the UK to support adult victims of modern slavery. This is a crucial safeguard that will help to support the needs of the victim. It will also have the knock-on effect of bringing offenders to justice. <BR /> <BR />However, I have concerns about the 12-month limit because we have no way of knowing whether the case will come to court within those 12 months. We know about the delays in our legal system. We do not know if they will get the support that they need within those 12 months.”
“It aims to assist them through recovery and help them to bring offenders to justice, which is vital in our fight against this crime. I am happy to support the Bill. If passed, it will be important legislation in aiming to support victims, and I am broadly supportive of its provisions. However, I have some concerns. <BR /> <BR />The Bill actively supports adult victims of modern slavery and human trafficking in their physical, psychological and social recovery, which is vital. It is important to include access to safe and appropriate accommodation; material assistance, including financial assistance; medical advice and treatment; counselling; support workers; translation and interpretation services; legal advice and representation; and assistance with repatriation.”
“Slavery can take many forms: sexual exploitation, forced criminality, domestic servitude and even the removal of organs. It is a cruel and torturous crime. It is probably one of the most cruel and inhumane crimes because you are removing somebody's life but they still have to live. I am quite certain that there are people out there who are suffering from this crime who would much prefer not to be here, and I can fully understand that. As a mother, if it was my child, would I prefer that they were in that life or that their life was over? I really would find it difficult to choose between those two things. <BR /> <BR />The Modern Slavery Bill rightly focuses on those elements and aims to provide additional support to the victims.”
“We need to recognise the signs, but if police officers are embedded in our communities and know the people in the communities, they will easily spot when something is not right within those communities. It is important that that is part of what they are doing. <BR /> <BR />Detective Inspector Mark Bell, of the PSNI's modern slavery and human trafficking unit, has acknowledged that modern slavery and human trafficking are among the fastest-growing types of crime. That is reflected in the statistics that we are now seeing, and is why it is important to have police officers embedded in our communities.”
“I thank the Members who brought the motion. We will be supporting it. There has been much discussion recently about slavery and historical slavery. Whilst that is important, we need to acknowledge, and people need to be very well aware, that slavery is alive and kicking amongst our communities, right around us, and everywhere we live and work. We need to be aware of that, and we need to make our communities aware of it. <BR /> <BR />As a member of the Policing Board, the previous Member, as she outlined, is well aware of how seriously the PSNI takes this. We spoke yesterday about the need for greater numbers in the Police Service and the fact that there needs to be a focus on neighbourhood policing and policing with communities. That is really important in relation to this issue.”
“Thank you very much to Mr Allister for taking my intervention. I do not believe that anybody in this House is neutered at any time. There is only one of you, and I have never known you to be neutered. No party, and certainly not the larger parties, will be neutered. I do support resources and time being given to an opposition. We were given the rationale behind the two years. It was in NDNA and was not our choice. I agree with what the MLA who spoke previously said about how it would much better if the matter had come through the House and undergone Committee scrutiny. Unfortunately, that is not the position that we are in.”
“No problem. <BR /> <BR />As for Mr Allister's comments, there is no cosy cabal, I can assure you. Every day, many Members of the House who have Ministers in government behave as though they are in opposition, and it is their right to do so and their right to challenge.”
“<BR /> <BR />I note that the previous item of business today related to the Assembly and Executive Review Committee and dealt with the topic of an Opposition, as set out in paragraph 3.7 of annex C of NDNA —.”
“Nevertheless, at its meeting on 30 September 2020, the Committee agreed that Standing Order 45A should be amended and agreed the motion on the Order Paper today. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that the Committee has not met the deadline of implementing the amendment within three months of the Assembly being formed. However, given the circumstances that we find ourselves in today, the Committee has endeavoured to prioritise the amendment in its work programme and to bring the motion to the House today. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we must remember that the NDNA is a product of a five-party, cross-party agreement that returned us to these institutions. It is in the Committee's gift to bring its proposals to the House and to implement measures in NDNA for which it has responsibility.”
“The Committee agreed to defer its consideration until its next meeting, and, subsequently, I wrote to the Executive Office and the NIO to ask what the rationale for the two-year period was. A response was received from the Minister of State. In that response, the Committee noted that the parties recognised that it was right to provide for a longer period to enter opposition following an election, because the current time frame is very restrictive. There is also the need to prevent parties entering opposition for purely electoral purposes as an Assembly election approaches. <BR /> <BR />Some views were expressed on the Committee that the rationale for the two-year period was not clarified enough, and I am sure that you will hear from the Member about why he expressed his opposition to the motion.”
“However, due to the outbreak of COVID-19, the Committee was asked to urgently consider temporary provisions to Standing Orders at its meeting on 25 March 2020. Therefore, the Committee agreed to defer consideration of Standing Order 45A. <BR /> <BR />As a result of the pandemic and following guidance from the Chairpersons' Liaison Group (CLG), the Committee agreed not to meet unless considering business related to COVID-19. Therefore, the meeting on 17 September 2020 was the next opportunity for the Committee to consider the amendment. At that meeting, the Committee received further legal advice and gave consideration to amending Standing Order 45A. During discussions, some members queried the rationale behind the two-year period following the formation of the Executive when a party can enter official opposition.”
“At its meeting on 29 January 2020, the Committee agreed to seek legal advice relating to official opposition arising from the Assembly and Executive Reform (Assembly Opposition) Act. On 11 March 2020, the Committee received legal advice on the provisions in the Opposition Act, Standing Orders and the NI Act 1998 on the issue. The advice also explained the legal position should the Assembly make any necessary changes to Standing Orders to give effect to paragraph 3.6 of the NDNA agreement. As the Assembly first sat on 11 January 2020, the Committee agreed at its meeting in March to amend Standing Order 45A and, therefore, to remain within the three-month deadline of NDNA to amend Standing Orders by 11 April 2020.”
“Although official opposition was not chosen by the Committee as an immediate priority in its strategic planning, paragraph 3.6 in annex C of NDNA states that an amendment to Standing Orders:”
“The Assembly and Executive Reform (Assembly Opposition) Act 2016 made provision for the formation and arrangements of an official Opposition. However, the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) agreement contemplates an amendment to that Act to provide that:”
“On behalf of the Committee on Procedures, I am pleased to bring the motion to the House today, proposing the amending of Standing Order 45A. Currently, Standing Order 45A provides:”
“I agree with much of what the Member has said. However, I highlight the fact that the ineffectiveness in dealing with legacy in this House and in the British Government has played a big part in the lack of confidence in the PSNI, with people not feeling that they could —.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It is baffling that people do not think that we should ask the British Government to give the money that they said that they would give under NDNA. They said that they would give resource to go with what was agreed in NDNA, and it baffles me that people think that we should instead be dipping into resources that we need for our children's education, our health system and everything else. Almost everybody in the House has a Minister. Those Ministers are crying out for resources and money, yet Members are saying that we should not ask the British Government for more money. I am absolutely baffled by that attitude.”
“Instead of asking the Justice Minister and the Finance Minister to turn water into wine, the amendment simply asks that Members support our Ministers in going to not only where the money is available, but where the duty is to supply it: the British Government.”
“It is also the same Government that has refused to set up such legacy mechanisms as the Historical Investigations Unit, which was agreed by both Governments and our five main parties in the Stormont House Agreement. <BR /> <BR />Successive Chief Constables agree that this would take massive pressure off the PSNI, not just in respect of resource but also in increasing confidence in present and future policing. That last example shows that the issue is not solely about financial resource, but financial resource is essential. As far back as the Stormont House Agreement in 2014, £150 million was promised by the British Government to the legacy mechanisms. Julian Smith, the previous British Secretary of State, added £100 million. Has anyone seen a single cent? Absolutely not.”
“It is only here that Sinn Féin's amendment adds more realism and improves the motion. Where does the financial resource come from? The increase in the number of police officers will cost tens of millions of pounds. I am not the first Member to say that the Executive do not have the resources to cover all of the commitments in NDNA. In fact, the range of priorities are far in excess of the funding package provided by the British Government. <BR /> <BR />It is, perhaps, timely to remind Members that the British Government are refusing to pay for a victims and survivors' pension, which could run into hundreds of millions of pounds. That is the same Government that have legislated for that pension, and the scheme is to be hierarchical and discriminatory.”
“As Mr Clarke has outlined, and as I am sure we all accept, that will improve outcomes in many if not all types of crimes, including the scourge of drug dealing in our communities, domestic violence, ongoing paramilitary violence, child sexual exploitation, human trafficking, antisocial behaviour and rural crime, to name but a few. <BR /> <BR />Members will know that Sinn Féin's argument and support for policing with the community is a core and fundamental part of a modern police service. That concept was also at the centre of the Patten report, as was the view that 7,500 officers was the appropriate and necessary size of such a new service here. As the motion states, that commitment from the Executive is contained in NDNA. Such commitments need resources.”
“I thank the Members who brought the motion to the House today. I currently sit on the Justice Committee but was formerly on the Policing Board, so I do have some knowledge of the issues. I absolutely accept what you are saying about the number of police that we need, and we need to get to that 7,500 figure. All Members, or at least most Members, in the Chamber will agree with the main thrust of the motion, which concerns the importance of having an "effective, responsive and visible" policing service across the North. <BR /> <BR />I am glad to see the emphasis placed on neighbourhood and local policing teams, but I would expect no different. From my time on the Policing Board, I know that we placed an emphasis on them.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for coming to the House last week. Some further questions arose out of that. You gave us quite a good update last week, but do you have an update on how many of the cases will involve reprosecutions and how many will not, if you have those figures, particularly relating to those who are on the sex offenders register?”
“It is also important for those who have no interest in compensation but who absolutely want an acknowledgement of what has happened to them or to a loved one who has passed.”
“I hope that Fiona Ryan will engage and build a good relationship with victims and survivors. <BR /> <BR />Will the joint First Minister accept that today's appointment has been a long time coming? Will she join with me in commending the victims and survivors in their campaign for truth, justice and public acknowledgement? Will she also agree with me that the engagement and support that we have talked about with victims and survivors will be vital in terms of the memorial, the acknowledgement and what will be put in place by way of an apology? That will be important, not only to the victims and survivors who are still with us but to the families of the victims and survivors who have passed.”
“First, I welcome today's announcement, and I look forward to meeting Fiona Ryan, when she is in post, to have a conversation with her about how she will engage with victims and survivors. That is a vital element in all of this, and the joint First Minister has already outlined how important that is. It cannot be overemphasised. We know that some groups had difficulties with the interim advocate.”