Linda Dillon
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“It is important to have that acknowledgement for the sake of history — so that the generations who come after us will understand what happened to you and what you went through. It is also important for our present and future: we must make sure that what happened to those women, girls and children never happens again.”
“I begin by offering the apologies of my colleague Carál Ní Chuilín, who cannot be here today owing to ill health. Carál has been very much invested in the work on the legislation. The Bill is very important to her, given the work that she does in the Assembly and the people with whom she has personally worked and engaged over many years.”
“My colleague Áine is the Member who probably comes closest to having a true understanding of what you have had to live with and endure, and continue to live with and endure, because it has affected, and will affect, you all your life, and we know that those effects are transgenerational. I acknowledge that.”
“We can never allow that to happen. <BR /> <BR />You showed bravery by speaking up. You spoke up, yes, so that people would know what had happened to you, but you also spoke up so that it would not happen to others.”
“Some lived to see the beginning of the campaign but not the Bill getting to this stage. Many did not even see the beginning of the campaign and did not believe that, in their lifetime — or anyone else's lifetime, for that matter — there would be an acknowledgement of what happened to them.”
“I apologise for not being in the House from the beginning of the statement and thank you for your latitude on that. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister. You have outlined some of the benefits that Waterways Ireland ownership can bring to waterways and local communities.”
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“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. Some Members spoke earlier about equality issues. Whilst it is difficult for those of us who are able-bodied, anyone with mobility issues, particularly those who are older or who have to use a wheelchair, have no chance of being able to get in or out of their home in some of those developments.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. Does he agree that not all the issues can be resolved by bonds? I have areas in my constituency where sight lines are the issue, and a bond cannot be used to resolve that. We also really need to look at planning and at ensuring that sight lines are in place before houses can be completed and sold.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I should declare an interest at this point as the mother of a child who is being taught through the medium of Irish and as somebody who has a keen interest in it. Can the Minister give us an update on the Irish language strategy, please?”
“Deputy First Minister, do you agree that the hospital wing on the Maze/Long Kesh site is important as a potential economic driver and in the context of our shared history here? I genuinely mean our shared history. Only last week, I spoke to a republican who brought people from what would be viewed as the other side of the community to the Long Kesh site when it was accessible. They really enjoyed the visit, and it started a conversation about reconciliation and how we need to work together.”
“Thank you, Minister. As you said, there are a number of issues in the justice Bill that we want to see come forward, in particular about the protection of victims of sexual and domestic violence. We need to see that happen. If a party is blocking that in the Executive, we need to know, because that is not being articulated in the Committee. We need a response in order to move the matter forward.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. It is important that victims know that, regardless of what discussions are ongoing or what arguments there are with the British Government over who should pay, they will receive their money. <BR /> <BR />Minister, will you outline whether you have had any discussions with or approaches from the Secretary of State or the British Government about their proposed legacy Bill, as outlined in the Queen's Speech, given that, effectively, it gives an amnesty to British state forces and rules out the possibility of any type of article 2-compliant investigations?”
“That is the right of the Finucane family, and I ask all of you in the House to support the motion and make it clear that you are supportive of all victims of the conflict getting access to those rights.”
“No. <BR /> <BR />At what point will the British Government stand by the agreements that they made in relation to a full public inquiry into the killing of human rights lawyer Pat Finucane and to implement the agreed mechanisms so that all families, right across our community, can access the truth? Everyone has a right to an article 2 investigation into the death of their loved ones. Everyone is entitled to have timely access to due process. Everyone has a right to have access to agreed processes to obtain information recovery. Those rights and entitlements are for all of our citizens, irrespective of their background or political persuasion.”
“It does not give them everything that they want, but it gives them the best opportunity to have, at the very minimum, an article 2 compliant independent investigation, and then an opportunity for truth and justice. It is not a certainty — I accept that — but at least an opportunity.”
“That is a massive issue, which we all have an interest in, here in the North at this very time. A total of 17,500 people, many of whom were victims or had lost loved ones, responded to that consultation. They acknowledged that it was not perfect.”
“I was part of the team that negotiated with the two Governments and all the other parties, including the Ulster Unionists, to get the Stormont House mechanisms that had been agreed in 2014 implemented. I accept that those mechanisms are not perfect, but I can categorically state that they do not provide an amnesty for anyone, and there is nothing to prevent further investigation of any issue. It may not be provided for in the agreement, but there is nothing there to prevent it, so it is an amnesty of no type, shape or fashion. <BR /> <BR />I would also like to acknowledge that those were the mechanisms that were consulted on. There was an overwhelming response to the consultation of over 17,500 people. Earlier, the Health Minister said that there were, I think, 468 responses to his mental health consultation.”
“In the words of a previous British Conservative Prime Minister, as has been outlined by other Members, there were "shocking levels of collusion" in the killing of human rights lawyer Pat Finucane. <BR /> <BR />This is not an ask of me, Linda Dillon. It is not an ask of Sinn Féin or the SDLP. Indeed, three separate reviews — by Judge Cory, Lord Stevens and Sir Desmond de Silva — found that there was state collusion in the killing. Yet here we are, 17 years after Judge Cory's findings and recommendation that there be a public inquiry, and this family is still waiting, still campaigning and still fighting for the basic right of an article 2 compliant, independent investigation of the killing of Pat Finucane, which, the Supreme Court has ruled, has not yet been carried out. <BR /> <BR />I was elected to the Assembly in 2016.”
“I thank the Members who have contributed to the debate so far. I support the motion. At the outset, I would like to acknowledge what we are talking about. We are talking about the murder of a loving father, a husband, a brother and a son. My thoughts as we speak to the motion are with the Finucane family and all the families that lost loved ones during the conflict. <BR /> <BR />This is a family that has been fighting now for over 30 years for the basic right of an article 2 compliant investigation of the killing, and we are 20 years after a commitment from the British Government themselves to hold a public inquiry. The family deserves to have closure. They deserve to be able to grieve and finally lay Pat to rest in the knowledge that an inquiry has been carried out and that the truth has been laid bare about the events of that day.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. I am sure the Member will agree that there is a real issue with proper supervision for people when they are first administered with medication. It is supposed to happen for a minimum of six weeks, and it is not happening in the manner that it should.”
“I raised her to look not at the differences but at the similarities in others, to accept the differences and to be able to work with those people, play with them and enjoy their company. <BR /> <BR />My final point is that criticism of human rights abuses of the Palestinian people by the Israeli state should not be conflated with antisemitism. Let us not dilute the message that we want to go out from this House. We are united in our opposition to antisemitism in all its forms. We must make sure that the message that leaves the House today is that every single Member is opposed to antisemitism.”
“If you are in a conversation in which something that you think is antisemitic is said, you must challenge it. That is what being a leader is about. <BR /> <BR />As has already been pointed out, education will play a vital role on the issue. No one should be targeted because of their faith. Education plays a vital role in teaching our young people the art of acceptance and that we are all different. Different is good; diversity is a positive thing. As a mummy, I can certainly say that I feel very proud of the attitude that my 12-year-old daughter takes towards those around her and of her positive approach to diversity. I do not think that it is arrogant to say that I bear some responsibility for that.”
“Despite the fact that hate crime is rising in the North, the conviction rate is shockingly low and, as Liz Kimmins said, the reporting rate is even lower. We made representations to the Justice Minister to prioritise the introduction of a hate crime Bill. I will not go over that because I have already responded to Steve Aiken on it. <BR /> <BR />My colleagues, particularly Pat Sheehan, have outlined the issues that we have with the specific IHRA definition. Across the House, we can all agree that antisemitism, or any type of racism, is unacceptable and must be dealt with appropriately. We must challenge it. We must challenge it in our workplace. We must challenge it in our communities. We must challenge it in our conversations with those around us.”
“Whilst it was recognised that online hate speech is largely a reserved matter, the issue was, nonetheless, considered as part of the review, and it would be remiss not to mention the harm that is caused by online hate speech. Social media companies should be compelled, under legislation, to take steps to remove offensive material that is posted online. It is clear that self-regulation has failed. <BR /> <BR />Restorative justice affords a huge number of benefits as a means of dealing with perpetrators of hate crime, ensuring not only that the perpetrators are punished but that work is done to ensure that the offender does not offend again and that the underlying prejudices that led to the criminal act are tackled and changed. Hate crime in any form is totally unacceptable.”
“It reinforced how ineffective current hate crime laws are and made a series of recommendations on how we can improve this. At present, there are no specific hate crime offences in law in the North, and the review recommended the creation of aggravated hate crime offences, which was a key Sinn Féin recommendation during the consultation period.”
“Absolutely, I will. That is part of my contribution today. I absolutely agree, but I will also be honest: the Justice Committee is already dealing with a number of pieces of legislation, and it would be disingenuous for us to say that further legislation will get through in this mandate. However, the Committee has called on the Minister to ensure that it is ready to go in the next mandate. All the preparatory work should be done. I absolutely agree with the Member on that. <BR /> <BR />There were attacks on Jewish graves in Belfast City Cemetery last week, and it was not the first time that those graves had been vandalised. That was a hate crime, and those responsible must be held to account. The hate crime legislation independent review concluded at the end of 2020.”
“I support the amendment. Our current legislation on hate crime in the North is out of date and failing victims. The legislation does not frame racist violence appropriately; the police do not police it appropriately; the PPS does not process it appropriately; the courts do not penalise it appropriately; and the official statistics do not record it appropriately. That is not a criticism of those bodies. It is criticism of the fact that we do not have the correct legislation in place, and the hate crime legislation independent review has clearly set that out.”
“Our concerns about the eligibility criteria are on the record, but can the Minister confirm that there will be a good communications strategy with the victims sector? We welcome the announcement today, but I know from our experience with historical institutional abuse, that it is vital that, in any of these processes, victims know what is happening, when it is happening and why it is happening.”
“I agree with all that the Chair has outlined. We will try to process the Bill as quickly as possible because the interim rate is not ideal and has raised its own problems. We want this to go through Committee Stage as quickly as is humanly possible, but we need the extension for all the reasons that the Chair has outlined. That is not to mither or complain about the fact that we will be looking at four pieces of legislation. That is what we are here to do, and we want to do it. The Justice Committee has shown that by what it has done to date, and we will continue to do that. If every other Committee were progressing legislation in the way that we are, the House would be in a much better place.”
“I appreciate the Minister's response, but what I was actually asking for is a time frame for the roll-out to other schools. Obviously, there are a number of schools that I am concerned about that have not been included in this scheme. Sorry.”
“On the point that the Member just made about young people trying to exit a bus, we have had a number of those incidents across Mid Ulster. Also could gritting rural roads that have schools on them be considered, Minister? The schools on those rural roads are mostly primary schools, and it is extremely dangerous for children who are trying to get out of cars to cross the road. As a result, we have had a number of incidents that have almost been serious and some that have been serious.”
“We fought hard for that and got a good response, which I welcome and acknowledge, but much more needs to happen and to be done because we have growing communities, and we need to put the infrastructure in to allow people to remain in the areas that they want to live in, where they have grown up and where they want to raise their families. Thank you for coming to the Chamber.”
“You may need only a small stretch of footpath if you are in a town or a large village, but if you live in a small village or an outlying area, you are starting from a point of zero. For those communities, £10,000 is no good, so we need to start being more imaginative and look at what we need to do rather than filling in patches of footpaths in big towns and villages where, in some cases, there is already plenty. We should start looking at those areas where we are starting from the point of zero and where we have growing numbers. My area of Clonoe, where I live, has grown massively, with at least five new developments over the last few years. That is great to see, and the Minister's Department has put some investment into the area.”
“I ask the Minister to work closely with the Education Minister. Maybe we need to set up a task force or a working group to address the issue with other Departments, as I do not believe that it can be addressed by the Minister for Infrastructure alone. However, as I said, it does need to be addressed by the Department for Infrastructure. I know that funding was put into the Safe Routes to School initiative, but there needs to be a greater understanding of the position in rural constituencies.”
“St Brigid's Primary School in Brockagh has been promised a footpath for quite some time. St Marys Primary School, Dunamore, in my constituency, looks up the road to Orritor Primary School, which has beautiful footpaths, has been left behind. The school feels that that is historical neglect, and it is historical neglect. Such areas need footpaths. <BR /> <BR />Other areas have worked together with the Education Authority to find the best solution, whether a transport or a DFI solution. We need to be more imaginative and work together. Again, Mr Buchanan said that we need to work together as a community with DFI, Education, and the police to find solutions. DFI may have a large part of the responsibility, but I recognise that it does not have sole responsibility, and I appreciate that the Minister has come here today.”
“We have very dangerous roads outside those schools with speeding traffic — often heavy goods vehicles — breaking the speed limit. I have regularly seen vehicles moving at 70 and 80 mph outside schools. Recently, there was a situation in Aughamullan where young people were dipping outside the school and almost hitting the wall of the school. If anyone had been leaving the school at that time, it would have been very dangerous. There were pupils in the school because we were still catering for key workers. All those issues have to be dealt with. <BR /> <BR />In his opening and closing remarks, Mr Buchanan said something of vital importance: the Minister for Infrastructure and the Minister of Education need to work together because there are schools that need footpaths.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are engaging with the Education Minister because both the school and its site are not fit for purpose. In the interim, we need to ensure that the children are safe. There have been a number of serious accidents on that road. I would be grateful if the Minister could give us a timeline for the roll-out of 20 mph speed limits. I also welcome Mr Buchanan's mentioning SIDs. They are an extremely useful tool in the fight against danger on our roads. <BR /> <BR />As I said, Galbally is one primary school, but there are many primary schools with similar issues. I am sure that other Members will mention the fact that we represent a very large rural constituency and have many schools that were probably not built in the best place. However, they are where they are.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Thank you, Deputy Principal Speaker. Sorry, Principal Deputy Speaker. I keep forgetting how to say it in English. I assure you that I will not be using anything near the 11 minutes. <BR /> <BR />To be fair, Mr Buchanan has covered many of the points. It might seem that I am repeating some of them, but they are extremely important. I know that the Minister has rolled out the 20 mph limit outside schools, and we campaigned for that a number of years ago. The campaign started in Conor Murphy's time, but I want the measure to be rolled out further. Some schools in my constituency are in a very precarious position and have dangerous roads outside their gates. I specifically refer to St Joseph's Primary School in Galbally, which has a real issue with speeding cars.”
“I thank the First Minister for taking the intervention. Obviously, we are late coming out of the blocks on the violence against women and girls strategy, but that gives us an opportunity to learn from the other strategies across these islands, such as those in Scotland, Wales, England, and in the Twenty-six Counties, where they are on their second strategy, covering 2016-2021. We should try to learn from good and bad practice in all those strategies.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. I absolutely agree with you on your point about intimidation points. It is an issue that one of our councillors has raised with Mid Ulster District Council over the last number of years. I am delighted that Minister Hargey initiated a review, which was carried on in her absence by Carál Ní Chuilín. It is an unacceptable situation and circumstance that we have had women who could not be rehomed, yet their abusers could be. I therefore absolutely agree with the Member, but I have to point out the fact that the issue is being addressed.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. I spoke with representatives from Women's Aid yesterday, and the day before, on this issue. One of the concerns that they raised was that, currently, an excellent Committee is working tirelessly on this issue. I assured them that, no matter who sits on the Committee, that work would continue in the next mandate. I am delighted — I think that the Member will agree — to hear the voices across the House, because it gives a reassurance to Women's Aid that, no matter who sits on any future Justice Committee, this issue will be very much focused on.”
“Not every child has parents, and not every child has good guidance. That is the reality of the world that we live in, so our education system has to pick up the slack in that, as do we, as a community. In saying that, one of the reasons why we have failed to recognise domestic violence as a whole, but particularly violence against women, is that we decided that it was a problem inside the home and not one for us as a community. It is, and I am glad to see that we are finally recognising that. <BR /> <BR />A strategy will, hopefully, bring us forward and ensure that all our community, including those who want to resist this, finally recognise that the issue has to be dealt with.”
“We are here to legislate, but we need to ensure that we talk to and engage with the victims and the sector on the strategy. We, as legislators, will absolutely do our bit, but we need to engage with those people. We need to engage with Women's Aid, which has done so much in this campaign, with the victims who have survived and with the families of those who have not survived, because they will help to inform any strategy that we bring forward. <BR /> <BR />I absolutely support the amendment. I have talked in the House before to the fact that we need standardised sex and relationship education across our education system. I, as a mummy, have a responsibility. I take that seriously, and I will do my best to educate my child on what a healthy relationship looks like. However, not every child has that in their home.”
“We know that they are, but the statistics bear out that the victims are mostly women and that the perpetrators are mostly men, even when men are the victims. We need to stop trying to balance things out and to accept that those are the facts. <BR /> <BR />We are all well aware of the under-reporting of domestic and sexual violence against women, so even the statistics that we have are not right and are not close to being right. I welcome what the Minister of Justice has brought forward so far through the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act and the Criminal Justice (Committal Reform) Bill. Hopefully, we will have a miscellaneous provisions Bill that deals with upskirting, downblousing and some of the Gillen recommendations, and we have the stalking legislation. All that is progressive and good. That is what we are here to do.”
“It obviously is a cross-cutting issue that goes across all Departments; every Department will have to have an input to the strategy and face up to their responsibilities. For that reason, the Department of Justice probably needs to take the lead. Somebody needs to take the lead. We need to see an effective strategy, not something like the piecemeal and gender-blind approach that we have had to date. <BR /> <BR />We all have men in our lives whom we love, who love us and who are good to us, so we do not need to constantly defend the fact that we are talking about a strategy to address violence against women and girls. We do not need to keep balancing that by saying that men are victims.”
“Unfortunately, those are not the only women or girls who have suffered or who we have lost in the community, so I offer our sympathies to all those who have lost members of their families: their mummies, their sisters and their daughters. <BR /> <BR />I listened to Frank Mullane yesterday on the radio. A number of Members were interviewed as part of that piece so they probably heard him, too, but he talked about the murder of his sister and about his and his family's campaign to effect change. One issue that he raised was the importance of the first response and protection service. On that, we are talking to policing and justice, which is why I felt that it fitted with the Department of Justice.”
“I thank the proposer of the motion and the proposer of the amendment for bringing them to the House. We raised the issue on a number of occasions with the Justice Minister during the Committee Stage of the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act. That was not just the Sinn Féin representatives but other members of the Committee, because we felt that it was important. Whilst that piece of legislation was perhaps not the right place to address the issue, it absolutely needs to be addressed, so I welcome that we are discussing it today. <BR /> <BR />It is extremely sad that we are discussing the issue against the backdrop of the killings of two women on Friday night and the killing of Sarah Everard the week before.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Thank you — Principal Deputy Speaker. I almost forgot it in English. Apologies. <BR /> <BR />I also watched the 'Spotlight' programme and reiterate the remarks of others who have offered condolences to the family. It was difficult to watch. As somebody who also received a threat for speaking up for others who had been threatened by the organisation that we are talking about, I say that we cannot have enough legislation and policing on the issue. Can the Minister give us a timetable for the additional legislation to tackle organised crime that was consulted on late in 2020?”
“We need to ensure that those who are being put through the system and those who advocate for them have a say in how the system works, because it is not working. It is not that it is broken. Rather, it was never right in the first place. It is a system that was created by men for men over hundreds of years. I say that with the greatest respect to many of the men in the Chamber and outside it, but it is the truth. We have to look at it and look at having serious reform.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. Like the Chair of the Committee, I welcome the high-level document. The devil will be in the detail, no doubt, but I welcome its intent. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister will know, one of the issues that was raised regularly during the passage of the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Bill was the abuse, rather than the use, of family courts, and the abuse of them by abusers through bringing their victims back to court repeatedly. Some work was done on the Bill to improve that — we did as much as we could — but we know that the system is still very open to abuse. I want to know whether more can be done. I am interested in what you said about having laypeople and court users on the council and the board. That is what we are missing.”
“To clarify, it was Mr Trevor Clarke. My apologies to Mr Chambers.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. A Cheann Comhairle, under the code of conduct for MLAs, we are supposed to uphold the law in accordance with the trust that is placed in us by the people. In yesterday's debate on flags, identity, culture and tradition, Mr Alan Chambers declared the he is engaging with loyalist paramilitaries. Those are armed criminal gangs, engaging in drug dealing, racketeering and intimidation in their own communities. Is it right that a Member of the House should be doing so?”
“Whether it is in their home, on the streets, in their workplace, in their place of education or wherever it may be, we have to deal with the issue, and we have to deal with it now.”
“Whilst it has been said that this type of incident is rare, one is one too many, and two in one weekend, on one night, is far too many. Families and communities are destroyed, and we need to take it seriously. <BR /> <BR />I hope that tomorrow's motion will get support. I sincerely hope that the Justice Minister and the Executive as a whole will take the issue and grapple with it. It does not take away from all other violent acts. These things are not competitive, but we have to acknowledge that violence against women and girls is all too common and is destroying our communities. Violence within the home is not a problem just within the home; it is a problem for entire communities and one that we all need to deal with. We are talking not only about domestic abuse but about violence against women and girls in every facet of life.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the Justice Minister will need to take the lead, we do not want to fill our prisons with perpetrators. We want to stop women and girls becoming victims in the first place. We do not want to see incidents like this where women are killed and their families are left and their daughters are left without their mummy. That has highlighted yet again that we will have a trans-generational impact on those two young women, who will have no female to look up to, no mummy there to rear them, to be there for them and to teach them how to deal with life. <BR /> <BR />As an Assembly and as leaders in our own communities, we have to take responsibility to show those young women that we will not tolerate this and that we will not allow their mummies and family members to be just another statistic with all the others.”
“I support the comments of my colleague in my condolences to the families of Karen and Stacey and particularly to their two young daughters, who have been left without their mummy. <BR /> <BR />As outlined, we are here again talking about violence against women and girls. I am acutely aware that a motion on that is being brought to the Assembly tomorrow, and I welcome that. It was raised with the Justice Minister when the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Bill was going through that we need a strategy dealing with violence against women and girls. Whilst that Bill was not gender-specific, that was because it was a much wider Bill, covering all familial relationships. However, we need a strategy on violence against women and girls, and it has to be cross-cutting across all Departments.”