Linda Dillon
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“It is important to have that acknowledgement for the sake of history — so that the generations who come after us will understand what happened to you and what you went through. It is also important for our present and future: we must make sure that what happened to those women, girls and children never happens again.”
“I begin by offering the apologies of my colleague Carál Ní Chuilín, who cannot be here today owing to ill health. Carál has been very much invested in the work on the legislation. The Bill is very important to her, given the work that she does in the Assembly and the people with whom she has personally worked and engaged over many years.”
“My colleague Áine is the Member who probably comes closest to having a true understanding of what you have had to live with and endure, and continue to live with and endure, because it has affected, and will affect, you all your life, and we know that those effects are transgenerational. I acknowledge that.”
“We can never allow that to happen. <BR /> <BR />You showed bravery by speaking up. You spoke up, yes, so that people would know what had happened to you, but you also spoke up so that it would not happen to others.”
“Some lived to see the beginning of the campaign but not the Bill getting to this stage. Many did not even see the beginning of the campaign and did not believe that, in their lifetime — or anyone else's lifetime, for that matter — there would be an acknowledgement of what happened to them.”
“I apologise for not being in the House from the beginning of the statement and thank you for your latitude on that. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister. You have outlined some of the benefits that Waterways Ireland ownership can bring to waterways and local communities.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,578 lines we hold for Linda Dillon, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 21 of 32.
“Having considered arrangements for other items of business and noting that Question Time is the only other item of business that has a fixed time, it was the Committee's view that there would be merit in Members' statements being managed much like Matters of the Day and that they should therefore be scheduled towards the start of plenary business. The Committee acknowledged, however, that that would be for the Business Committee to determine and that, on occasion, it might wish to exercise flexibility on that. <BR /> <BR />The final parameter for consideration is the issue of necessary but proportionate restrictions. Having considered examples of restrictions in place in other Parliaments, the Committee considered appropriate restrictions to apply to Members' statements in the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />There were two broad options for the scheduling of Members' statements: either that a fixed time should be set out in Standing Orders or that scheduling should remain a matter for the Business Committee.”
“Those were either that they would either be scheduled routinely, with an agreed frequency, or that it would be for the Business Committee to determine their frequency. The Committee discussed that at length and acknowledged the need for a degree of flexibility, based on any pressures on the Order Paper, for Members who want to be reactive when issues of importance arise that they want to put on record in the House. The Committee therefore agreed that it should be for the Business Office to determine whether to schedule Members' statements. In agreeing that, however, the Committee also expressed the view that it would usually expect the Business Committee to schedule Members' statements weekly.”
“The Committee agreed that 30 minutes would not unduly prolong the length of the plenary sitting and could provide Members with a more flexible opportunity to raise matters of concern to their constituents in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />The Committee's proposal for the selection and management of Members' statements, which was agreed by consensus, allows the Speaker to invite Members who wish to speak to rise in their place. The Speaker will seek to ensure that Members from a wide range of parties are called. Individual Members will have maximum of three minutes in which to make their contribution. No Member may intervene during another's statement, and no vote will be taken. No questions will follow a statement. <BR /> <BR />The Committee considered two broad options for how frequently Members' statements should be scheduled.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will address those issues, starting with whether provision should be made in Standing Orders. As outlined by the Speaker in his correspondence to the Committee, his office was receiving many and regular applications for Matters of the Day that, although considered by Members to be important, did not meet the necessary criteria for a Matter of the Day. That led to sense of frustration among Members, who were repeatedly unable to raise important constituency matters in the Chamber. The Committee agreed that provision should be made in Standing Orders to enable Members to put issues briefly on the record. That was agreed on the basis that it would be for a 30-minute period that would be strictly managed.”
“The terms of reference and the full details of the Committee's considerations are set out in its report, which was agreed at its meeting on 23 June 2021. All Members will have received a copy of that report. <BR /> <BR />The Committee acknowledged the potential benefits and what introducing Members' statements might involve. It considered a number of important parameters before reaching its conclusions. Those considerations included whether provision should be made in Standing Orders; how Members' statements would be selected and managed; the frequency of Members' statements, by which I mean how often they should be accommodated; scheduling, by which I mean at what point during a plenary sitting Members' statements should be taken; the time slot; and relevant and appropriate restrictions.”
“The Committee agreed to prioritise that item of work and commenced an inquiry. The Committee had just started its consultation with party groups and independent Members when COVID rates began to increase rapidly in autumn 2020. As a result of the second wave of the COVID pandemic, the Committee agreed to pause its inquiry and focus instead on introducing hybrid proceedings, agreeing to return to Members' statements at a more suitable future date. <BR /> <BR />When the COVID rates were declining in the spring, and as relaxation of restrictions commenced, the Committee agreed to review and update its work on Members' statements, with a view to completing it in time for any changes to be in place for the beginning of the next session of the Assembly.”
“We have all experienced a degree of frustration when we have wanted to raise an issue in the Chamber but were unable to do so because it did not meet the criteria for a Matter of the Day or a question for urgent oral answer. The Committee on Procedures therefore concluded that there should be a new category of business called "Members' Statements". That business will provide a short period in a plenary sitting, to last a maximum of 30 minutes, during which Members will have the opportunity to put issues briefly on the record without requiring the Speaker to judge those issues against particular criteria. <BR /> <BR />Early in 2020, the Committee on Procedures received a request from the Speaker asking that it look at whether it was feasible to make arrangements for that type of Assembly business.”
“Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I find that harder to say in English than I do in Irish, and that comes from somebody whose first language is English. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Committee on Procedures, I am pleased to bring to the House the two motions, which propose to introduce a new Standing Order to make provision for an item of Assembly business called "Members' Statements". <BR /> <BR />Today's motion from the Committee is about much more than a new procedural mechanism. When we come to the House, we do so to represent the interests of all our constituents on all kinds of issues that are important to them and that impact on their lives. Sometimes those are significant international issues, sometimes they relate to this place that we live in and sometimes they are issues of significant importance to smaller local communities.”
“The intention is, of course, to run an advertising campaign. Going forward, it is important to ensure that the redress panel has the capacity to cope with the increased claims that will potentially come forward. The call from the First Minister and others for people to apply will also, hopefully, lead to an increase in applications. We need to ensure that the redress board has the capacity to deal with that.”
“I thank the Minister for taking an intervention. I realise that the mother-and-baby-homes do not come under the remit of the Executive Office, but it is important that whatever is learned from this review is shared with the Health Minister before a redress board for the mother-and-baby homes is put in place.”
“I thank the Member for taking my intervention. On the oral hearings, does he agree that we are very often talking about people who did not get an education and who cannot read and write, yet we are asking them to write down what happened to them? For anybody, that would be an extremely difficult thing to do, but, for somebody who cannot read or write, expecting somebody else to do that for them is not fair.”
“Having information and feeling a sense of ownership and power are key for those people, because every ounce of power over their lives was removed from them for long enough. We need to ensure that they have some sense of ownership and of power over their destiny. They should not have to look to a solicitor to ask questions of the board before coming back to them. That is not a fair or human process for the individuals whom we are supposed to be supporting. I ask that that is the very minimum that is put in place. I support the motion, and I thank the Committee for bringing it to the House today.”
“We need to ensure that they feel some ownership of the process. We are saying to them, "If you have a question, you have to go to a solicitor, who will go to the redress board. The board will come back to your solicitor, and your solicitor will then come back to you". Why would they have faith in that process? Why can we not humanise it? Dealing with those people is not an administrative role. It is not a role that can be done without trauma training, because it involves dealing directly with victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse. They have very specific issues, and we need to ensure that the person who is their point of contact has specific training to deal with those issues. <BR /> <BR />Having that point of contact is important.”
“We do not have all the solutions, but a short, sharp review will hopefully get to them. <BR /> <BR />There is one thing that can be done. It has been raised repeatedly by all the victims and survivors to whom I have spoken. I have raised it with the redress board and spoken at length with the commissioner about it: a point of contact. It is not an advocacy service for victims. I think that the president might have pushed back on this on the basis of a misunderstanding that it would be some kind of advocacy service. It would be a point of contact. Those people feel that they have been tramped over all of their lives. For all of their lives, they have been damaged, hurt and injured by the state and by the people on whom they relied and who were supposed to look after and care for them.”
“As other Members said, we cannot have any type of review that delays the process or causes any issue over getting payments out to those who are in the system already. <BR /> <BR />When we were developing the legislation, I raised concerns about the legalistic and adversarial nature that the process might have. I was reassured that that would not be the case. It was important, because we are dealing with highly traumatised and often very vulnerable people. I am not happy that we now hear that the process is very legalistic and adversarial. That is not what was intended in the legislation. I want the redress board to look at the intent of the legislation and at what we wanted to do as a Government to deliver for those people. I ask the redress board to listen to what we say today.”
“Thankfully, many of them survive it every day. We need to recognise that as a starting point. <BR /> <BR />I took over the role of spokesperson on the issue in 2017, and I have kept in close contact with many of the victims and survivors over those years. I spoke to them again over the weekend, because I would never speak on the issue without speaking to the individuals. In fairness, the Chair and Mr Stalford have reflected pretty much where the victims and survivors are and the issues that they have. It is important that we include victims and survivors in any review, because the bottom line is that redress has to deliver for them. It is not about anybody else. It is not about us; it is about them. We need to have that in our heads at all times. A review needs to be short, sharp and solution-focused.”
“I agree with all the remarks made by the previous Members to speak. We will probably all make similar remarks, because we are all on the same page on the issue. I know that to be the case because, when we had to convene parties in the absence of the Executive, all the parties, including the Green Party, worked together to formulate the legislation and do it in the best way that we could. We were all fairly much on the same page because we all agreed that those people had waited long enough, that they had been through enough and that we had a responsibility to deliver for them in a fitting manner for victims and survivors. While we call it "historical" institutional abuse, be in no doubt that there is nothing historical about it for the individuals who suffered it. They suffer it and live with it every day.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House and for her answer so far. She has partially answered my supplementary question, but I would like to have on the record her unequivocal support for the families. It is devastating not only for the families involved but for the many families who have lost loves ones and who are awaiting legacy inquests and judgements. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister put on record her opposition to any attempt by the British Government to introduce an amnesty or statute of limitations for British state forces? Will she also resist any attempts to interfere with due legal process in respect of legacy inquests, judicial reviews, civil cases or prosecution cases involving British soldiers already before the courts, as they would undermine confidence in the justice system?”
“The Minister outlined that he would like to bring legislation forward in this mandate. Hopefully, that will happen. Is there enough support for the new policy among the Executive to ensure that, regardless of who has the Ministry in the next mandate, there will be commitment to it? I know that he cannot speak on behalf of a future Minister, but does he at least have indications from other parties and Ministers?”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House. Apologies, Minister; I am not sure whether it is my hearing or your mic, but I am really struggling to hear you. You mentioned psychological services for those who have received a letter. How exactly will people be able to access those psychological services? Is there the capacity in the health service? It is my experience that there is not currently the capacity to deal with those with mental health issues who need psychological services. There will now be, potentially, up to 9,000 additional people. I do not for one minute suggest that all 9,000 will need psychological services, but, even if it is 1,000 — or even if it is 100 — that will be a real pressure. Do we have the capacity? How will people be offered the service?”
“My remarks will be very brief. I support what the Chair said: the Committee has agreed to this.”
“Minister, can you confirm that you will meet victims' groups, victims' organisations and individual victims to give them reassurance on this issue? The Committee for Justice has offered to meet again the groups and organisations that represent victims, and we will do so, probably over the summer recess, to give them that reassurance. If victims have any concerns, a meeting would allow them to raise those directly with you and the Committee so that we can work together.”
“Can the Minister update the House on whether there are any plans for a new school on a new site for St Joseph's Primary School in Galbally? I had the previous Minister out there. Not only is its current site unsafe, but it is not fit for purpose. The number of children who go to the school is growing. The school is unable to accommodate that number of children. St Joseph's in Galbally really needs a new build.”
“I thank the Member for taking an intervention. Will the Member agree that, while the Bill may not go far enough for some, it gives choice? Some will choose not to stay open late, and that is fine. However, the Bill provides flexibility to the sectors and businesses that need it, particularly as we come out of a pandemic.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far and Sinead McLaughlin for tabling the question. It is vital. It is a cross-cutting issue, and Sinead is right: this is a perfect example of where we need Departments to work together. Will the Minister give us an update on Operation Encompass? Sex education is extremely important — I want to see it across all schools, not just in those that choose to provide it — but we also need to be sure that our children are protected when they are in school.”
“I will keep my remarks very short. Everything that has been said here is exactly my impression of Gordon. I served with him on the Justice Committee, and you would describe him as an absolute gentleman. Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, you said it yourself: he is and was an absolute gentleman. My thoughts today are with his family. When you love somebody and lose them, it is difficult at any time, but he was much too young to be lost. My thoughts today are with his family, all his party colleagues, his friends and those who loved him.”
“Does the Member agree with me that it is ironic that we had almost £16 million of Brexit funding for the PSNI when we did not have Brexit and, now that we have it and all the challenges that the protocol brings, it has been reduced by over £9 million?”
“They did not get any jobs from government or public-sector jobs. They did it themselves, and you are saying that they deserve nothing in return. They pay £2 billion into the economy every year. They deserve the infrastructure that they have never had.”
“I appreciate you taking the intervention. Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />In light of what Mr McAleer said and what you said when you said that there was no need for that infrastructure, let me tell you this: in Mid Ulster, there is need for the infrastructure. The answer to questions about it that businesses in Mid Ulster that need infrastructure, roads and electricity get from this place is, "If you need to grow your business, move to Belfast". That is not the response that we should give to any business that has built itself up over many years. Businesses did that against the odds and despite the fact that they did not have the infrastructure. They built up the skills base in Mid Ulster. They have built Mid Ulster; the people who live there built it. They did not get any foreign direct investment.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree that councils have been successful in developing schemes in a short time and that other Departments used councils to spend that money at late notice? Why could the Agriculture Minister not do the same?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with what you just said about health, and it is not just Ministers who have to take responsibility for the fact that money will have to be taken out of Departments' budgets to go towards health. You are right: it is not a financial problem but a much bigger issue. However, you cannot continually say throughout your speech that we have to prioritise but then put out a shopping list that means nothing is prioritised. If we are talking about prioritising health, that is where the priority will have to be.”
“Would the Member agree that it is not acceptable to have people in balaclavas marching through the streets of Portadown either?”
“I am sure that many Members across the House will share the frustration of those who live in my constituency. They see drug dealers, who destroy communities by dealing drugs to children and young people, living lavish lifestyles while families and communities are left to pick up the pieces. I commend the motions to the House. I thank the Minister.”
“Armed criminal gangs are involved in serious crime, such as murder, extortion and drug dealing. They threaten, bully, intimidate and coerce communities. They have no place in society. The main motivation of those criminal gangs is financial. They want to make as much money as possible, mainly off the backs of communities and those who cannot afford it. It is important that the police and other law enforcement agencies have the power to target those gangs where it will hurt: their assets and their pockets. The Criminal Finances Act introduces two new forfeiture powers that will allow the police to do just that in cases where property, assets or money is derived from or intended for use in unlawful conduct. <BR /> <BR />I would like to see the PSNI tackle organised crime in my constituency of Mid Ulster.”
“I do not intend to repeat what the Chair has already outlined, except to say that the motions will amend a number of statutory codes of practice under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to take account of the commencement of the provisions of the Criminal Finances Act 2017. The Criminal Finances Act includes a number of important provisions that will assist the police and others in tackling organised crime and criminal gangs. It is important legislation. <BR /> <BR />This matter first came to my attention when I was on the Policing Board. We went to a presentation in Grosvenor Road at which the police outlined why they needed these codes and this legislation to be put in place. It is necessary to ensure that we equip the police with the proper tools that will enable them to tackle such crime.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Access NI scheme is an important safeguarding scheme to ensure that people do not end up in inappropriate jobs where they might present a danger to the public or to individuals, and, as was outlined, that safeguard is still in place. It was never intended to prevent people turning their lives around or getting another chance after previous misdemeanours, regardless of how minor they were. It is important that Access NI is proportionate, fair and human rights-compliant, and I welcome the legislative change, which will achieve exactly that.”
“I do not propose to repeat what the Minister and the Chair have said, but it is important to note that the rule will bring Access NI into line with the Supreme Court judgement from January 2019, which found that the disclosure of all convictions, where an individual had more than a single offence, was disproportionate and would not comply with article 8 of the ECHR. The case involved four people who were convicted, cautioned or reprimanded for relatively minor offences, such as driving without a seat belt in 1996 and the theft of a sandwich from a shop in 1999 while the offender was homeless and suffering from undiagnosed schizophrenia. Disclosure of their criminal records to potential employers made it more difficult to obtain jobs.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, the statement mentions a 300% increase in advertising for the sex work industry in April and May 2020. Do you have any idea why there was that increase? SMS messages were subsequently sent out to sex workers the following February. Why was there a delay in sending those messages and any follow-up work? <BR /> <BR />Could the Minister look at the fact that there are people in the North who were trafficked here for sex and now have criminal records? In the Twenty-six Counties, those criminal offences were expunged. Those who were trafficked here had no choice, but we have not yet put legislation in place to protect them, and we are potentially keeping those women and children in that industry.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Minister, will you commit to looking at, or at least doing a feasibility study on, a centre of excellence for engineering skills in Mid Ulster? We have campaigned for that for a long number of years. We have many engineering companies, and £2 billion comes out of Mid Ulster and goes into the economy every year. If we did not have that, we would be in big trouble. Without us providing the skills for these people, the factories would close, and we would not have that money in our economy. Will you therefore commit to looking at a centre of excellence for engineering in Mid Ulster?”
“I welcome in particular the point that the Minister made about "Buy local". Will there be some kind of incentive to buy local? I certainly want to see the vouchers used in my constituency of Mid Ulster, where we have a large number of independent retailers who have worked hard to keep their businesses going and also, I would say, some of the best restaurants on this island. I would really love to see people from Mid Ulster using their vouchers in Mid Ulster. <BR /> <BR />Will you confirm that the scheme will be rolled out to the 16- and 17-year-old age group? How much is it likely to cost? I would also welcome that because those people work in our communities and pay taxes and National Insurance.”
“I do not want to be in that circumstance; I would much prefer that we had complete control over our finances. I certainly would not like to be going with a begging bowl to pay my bills in my house. I like to be in control of my finances, decide what my priorities are, decide how I spend my money and decide what bills I pay first. The Executive should be in the same position, and you, Minister, should be able to deliver all of the things that we talked about in the debate earlier and what we are talking about this evening. I would love us to be in control of our own destiny. <BR /> <BR />I will not go over all of the points that have already been made, but, by changing the policy and working with the council, we could make a real difference to the lives of the people across Mid Ulster, not least in our very rural and isolated areas.”
“It is great to see that people are conscious of that because there was a time when people would have just said, "We want lights, and all that matters is us". Now, people say that they want to protect their surroundings and their environment, and that is good. <BR /> <BR />I will not go over the points made by other Members on the benefits of LED lighting because those are plain to be seen in every possible way, not least financially. I accept that finances are an issue; they are an issue for every Department. They are an issue for the Executive and the Assembly, because we have finite resources. We have finite resources not because our Executive do not want not to give all our Ministers money to do whatever they want but because we rely on a British Government to give us money.”
“Those of us who work have to walk at either 6:00 am or 7:00 pm or 8:00 pm and, at particular times of the year, it is dark at those times. We really need to look at where we can put street lighting and consider where we can put minimal investment but create maximum benefit. That is important. <BR /> <BR />I agree with some of the contributors who spoke on the need to look at how to protect our environment through the type of lighting that we put in in certain areas. It is really important to certain individuals, particularly people who have made representations to me, that, when we put lighting in certain walkways, we should be really conscious of what wildlife is in that area and how that lighting will impact on it.”
“We are talking about a couple of metres' worth in some instances, but not having the street lighting prevents residents from being able to access services and access the town. We talk about mental health and well-being, but we often do not get the benefits in rural areas of having walking tracks and the lit-up areas that have footpaths that enable people to walk, particularly in the evenings.”
“For the better part of the year, it is no good to anybody. It is vital for allowing people access from top Clonoe to get to services such as Na Fianna GAC, the shop and everything else that is closer to the town. Having lighting there is really important. People feel a bit abandoned. They have that footpath, which takes them to Coalisland, but there is no link from top Clonoe to bottom Clonoe at all. <BR /> <BR />We have the same circumstance in many other areas. I agree with other Members when they talk about developers looking at where footpaths and street lighting are situated when they are considering a development. There are some small areas close to where I live where a tiny stretch of footpath with a bit of street lighting could connect them to the town.”
“As much as lighting is important for just being able to walk from one place to another safely, it is also important for residents' safety, as it guards against antisocial behaviour. To be fair, rural residents feel a wee bit neglected and not just by the Minister's Department. A lack of infrastructure is a massive part of why they feel neglected. We have talked before about access to footpaths, and street lighting is part of that, because, very often, if you do not have a footpath, the chance of getting street lighting is pretty limited. We need footpaths and street lighting, however, and we need to link up areas such as top Clonoe, where I live, to the town of Coalisland via Annagher Road. There is a really good footpath there, which was laid and maintained by the Department, but it has no lighting.”
“Right across the board, our council officers are outstanding when it comes to looking at what is good for Mid Ulster, what will benefit its residents, what is strategically beneficial and what will work for us economically to benefit people's lives, their health and their mental well-being. Every single facet of life of the people of Mid Ulster is valued and benefited by what our council does, from our council officers through to our councillors. They work well together to ensure that we have the best possible standard of living across Mid Ulster. Doing that would therefore be a good starting point. <BR /> <BR />It has already been said that, where there are dark areas, we will have antisocial behaviour.”
“I thank the Minister for attending the Adjournment debate and hope that we will get some results out of it. We all have our pet projects, for want of a better term. We all have areas that we want looked at, but we need to go right back to what was said by my colleague Emma Sheerin at the beginning of the debate, which is that we need a change in policy. We can all want lights wherever we want them, but if the policy does not allow for them, that is not going to happen. That is the reality, so we need to look at the policy. <BR /> <BR />A first step, Minister, on a case-by-case basis, which is something that Emma Sheerin suggested, is to look at how we can work with councils. I cannot speak for councils in other areas, but I can speak for Mid Ulster District Council.”
“I thank the Minister for taking an intervention. Martina Anderson raised the legacy issue of some developers no longer being around to meet requirements. Some of the developments were built by the legacy councils and taken on by the Housing Executive without the roads ever being adopted. There are two such developments in my immediate area of Coalisland, and I know that there are many more across Mid Ulster, as, I am sure, the Deputy Speaker can attest to. It is a real issue, and it is also an equality issue. We built those houses. Government built those houses, and government needs to fix the problem.”